vinapu Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I was asked this question in a private conversation today and when answering thought it may be topic interesting to some of us here. From time to time we are finishing our encounters with boys on the sour note feeling we did not receive full value for money or from boy's perspective- he did not receive enough money for a value offered. Somebody or both of us is leaving feeling unhappy and at times relieved it's over. How often it happens and what is the reason things did not work out ? I was kind of surprised to note that almost 1 in 5 'meetings ' aren't full value and I don't consider myself too picky, honest. Since I was in LOS twice last year and gathered quite a statistic sample here's my answer May trip : 7 boys, 2 out of 7 meetings / 28 % / did not result in disapointment: 1. boy's body excellent , massage great but his dick deformed / pear shaped / by silicone injection so whole time I spent being careful not even to look in that direction not enjoying his effort and presence at all 2. boy lazy , typical sandbag, trying to leave as soon as possible and asking for taxi money on departure, my last night. November trip : 28 boys, 37 meetings / with some more than once, one 4 hand massage / 7 sour meetings / 25% of boys , 19% of meetings /, reasons: 1. drama queen , not even undressed, sent away 2-4. long time offs interested in sleeping only at other end of bed, two of them gave me excellent massage earlier during day so obviously long time off is not their calling 5.massage great, boy interested in more but A/C level too low so I was dreaming only to leave ASAP before I freeze 6.my fault entirely - picked up young skinny twink ,not my type , wanted to try but felt I'm naked with somebody's grandson and did not feel comfortable 7. all great - evening, night, boy, body , appendage, you name it but on departure it turned out his expected tip was much more than I offered / 3000- above going rate, he genuinely expected 5000 / , no scene , we left room together but both clearly very unhappy, my last night. So as you see there are many reasons , not always boy's a fault. Another observation - on 4 out of 9 trips my last nights turned out bad , two mentioned above , earlier years - 1 boy had terrible bad breath , another was dud as well. Wonder it other's have the same experience or I have bad luck or I'm being plaint stupid and don't consider my choice of companions carefully enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xiandarkthorne Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Back when I first came to LOS, my ratio of duds was much higher as I didn't understand the system but nowadays, I rarely encounter them. I haven't had a real one for at least a couple of years now. I guess experience counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witty Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I try to remind myself not to take in boys after a very exhausting day shopping or sightseeing - my performance is definitely better after some good rest. Shouldn't blame it on the boys all the time, when there's some disappointment either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pong Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 most people somehow have a ratio of like 25% bad-50% average-25% top. For about anything in life. I do not really think with more exprience you can lower the ''bad'' rate. Looks say so little (just read that other topic about leave a shop without choosing). In massageshops I will ask the receptionist-esp. when you are forced to choose from a fotobook. Better shops are better because they can tell you more about their staff. I have not found those in the tourist zone of BKK. One of my recent worst duds was a guy who later told he had his (or friend-does not matter) birthdayparty the nite before and indeed he was still tipsy. Should have been banned from work in the west, but TITs. Great looks, most of you would say. In general, staying here for longer time and no urgent need to go out daily, when I find a real good performer (most of them do not look stunning) I stick to him. Has worked out very good, turns gradually into a longtime friend. In a 1st time meet-can be awkward, maybe they are shy, whatever, I talk to/with them-the usual things, and as I mostly can say a word or 2 about where theyre from, this breaks the ice. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The ratio of duds can be reduced by carefully defining what you expect up front. As an example, I know someone who has had numerous boys who say they will bottom and don't. So now he confirms they will bottom and explains there's no tip if they don't bottom, before ever leaving the bar. This reduces his dud rate. The next step is to read the body language very carefully in the bar. If the guy won't even look at you in the bar & seems reluctant, don't be confident of an improvement in the hotel room, when he thinks the tip is already in the bag. Finally, when you find some good boys, be prepared to off them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I rarely if ever had duds. I am upfront and honest about expectations and money and I always give the guy a choice if he wishes to take me up on my offer. I have always been very clear in what payment is for a short time and if going to another bar after his, I tell him. I leave nothing to chance. I also usually have a Thai boy with me that tells them everything they need to know and how generous I am with tips if service is beyond good. In Brazil, I find my chance for duds is always higher in saunas where the boys don't know me. The ones in Rio and Sao Paulo know I am generous and know that I tip for good service. I always negotiate the going rate and then tip of service is excellent. If poor service, I give what I promised but then never see them again. Once one boy knows you are going to be good to him and tip well, his friends know and your chance of getting duds drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishfahan2 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I just returned from 12 days in pattaya and I had 1 dud in 12 days with some nights more than one off. I always tell them that I want them to bottom and if I detect a reluctance I just dont off them. The one dud I did have flatly refused when we got naked and was apparantly ready to leave without a tip but we found other ways to amuse ourselves so he wasnt really a dud. I have found that the more gay boys preform better in bed so I gravitate towards them and my failures are found in the straight group Ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travellerdave Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I've not had many boys over the years that I regarded as duds, possibly thats because I am rather tolerant. I had one during my last trip who was a dud at first during the night, but he improved very much in the morning, so I was pleased I didnt get rid of him. He seemed very nervous and tense when we first got into bed and couldnt get hard, despite me sucking. I left him and went to sleep, but woke up around 5 am to find him cuddled up and ready for kissing and eventually I topped him. So sometimes a little patience is required to avoid the dud senario. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianPFC Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 About half of the boys I have sex with go to the lower end of my list (i.e. don't have sex again soon). This is not their fault, it's because there is so much choice and my interest in sex is waning. When I came here for holiday, watching and touching a straight boy (pay for sex) who is like a bag of sand in bed made my happy, now I expect more. Actually half of my sexual encounters are not worth the money and time, but that's because I start with not being horny and expecting some kind of wonder (these wonders happen, but less than 1 out of 5 boys). Real duds are about 1 out of 5. My current major problem is skin temperature, I like dry and warm skin. I don't like air drafts, no fan at all and aircon only to a certain degree. That leaves a small time window where the skin temperature is perfect beffore it gets cold sweaty. Some boys are too cold/wet/sweaty throughout. This paragraph shows how jaded I have become. Clearly not the boy's fault. (The above data is half pay, half free, and the ratio is similar for paid and free.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baobao Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 When I came here for holiday, watching and touching a straight boy (pay for sex) who is like a bag of sand in bed made my happy, now I expect more. This paragraph shows how jaded I have become. Clearly not the boy's fault. Interesting take on this, ChristianPFC. At the risk of kicking a hornet's nest I'm going to say that becoming THAT sort of "jaded" might be a problem many would crawl a mile on rough asphalt for. If some (some, not most) of the folks I've heard whining while living there about the quality of guys bedded were back home they'd more than likely be getting far less intimacy of any sort - other than flying their kite solo. A "dud" there might well be a jealously guarded treasure in Cincinnati, Ohio - for example. I think it's human nature to begin taking things for granted, though, isn't it? vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 So it looks that those of us who are more hunters, carefully picking up their prey and negotiating expectancies before closing door have minuscule chance of landing dud , whatever it means . Those who are fishers, rather than hunters, picking up whatever will show up at the hook have about 1 in 5 / Christian experience mirrors mine/ chance of not being happy. Since I belong to fisher category usually picking up boy at the flash and taking him off without any negotiations other than short/long time willingness I must say I'm content with 20 % failure rate as a price for possible nice surprise. It looks that fate treats me well since out of 5 boys I recall most fondly only 2 were my choice, other 3 were forced on me from rotation ,mamasan's mistake and by boy himself and I'm still smiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williewillie Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 There are two people in the bed. I wonder how the Thai guys rate their customers. How many of us just lie back to be 'smoked' or roll over to be plugged? Are they duds too? Or take the bad breath farangs who stick their tongues down the boys throats, slobbering over their bodies. Are these farangs duds? Sure, we are the customer and paying money but many of us cannot get hardons anymore and blame the boys for not reading our minds. When many of us are satisfied, we try to give the boy as little as possible. The message is there's no reward for good service. Michael has it right. Be good to the boys, be generous and reward good service and don't lie to the boys. Maybe, that will improve your ratios. ishfahan2 and t0oL1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travellerdave Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Willie - I agree very much with your post. I think it can be a daunting experience for a boy, perhaps recently arrived in Bkk or Pattaya, perhaps only 18 or 19, wanting to work in the gay sex industry. I can be painfull for him to be topped and he may find it unpleasant to have to suck dicks and to tongue kiss. I sometimes watch porn with them on my Ipad to begin with and that often relaxs them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Michael is right - leaving nothing to chance improves odds of being satisfied. So those who are more spontaneous and just curious to see what happens likely will be landing dud from time to time, I can live with that. No doubt boys have their own farang rating and while Williewillie is correct that many of us may be blaming boys for our own shortcomings , whatever they may be / hygiene, stinginess, bad treatment etc. / but no need to use pink glasses when looking at boys. Some are very skillful money extractors and like to exploit our weak points hence all those stories about taxi money , sick buffalos etc. Not that I blame them but not every farang landing dud has himself to blame. I have suspicion that cases 2-4 from OP from my November trip did not work for me because I was too generous with them or their friends previously and they thought rightly they bedded sucker farang . Not that I'm complaining, at least they all had great bodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travellerdave Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Vinapu The legend of the famous sick buffalo !. You hear about it many times, but I feel deprived as I have never had a request for cash based on the poor animal and the necessity for treating it. For other misfortunes yes, such as the need to repair the roof of the family home. Perhaps we could have a specialised thread for sick buffalo stories ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williewillie Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I run into farangs who think everything is about them. They are the center of the universe and all important. I steer clear of these ego centric men . Some man I know insists the world will end with his demise. He was warning me and I understood he had a severe narcissistic personality disorder. My point is that we should be grateful that so many boys can and do perform amazingly well even when we are well past our prime and couldn't conceive of having sex with someone who looks like us for any amount of money. Sure, I have had duds and some encounters are far better than others but I look at it as renting vs. buying. Testing the water before I jump in. It's only an hour of my time and small money after all . I saw my worst dud recently. He wouldn't take his clothes off in my room, wouldn't touch me etc. I gave him 'taxi money' and showed him the door. He had promised he could do 'everything'. Now, he has a farang sponsor who showers him with baht. Sometimes your worst dud is someone else's dream boy. Go figure. kokopelli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Vinapu The legend of the famous sick buffalo !. You hear about it many times, but I feel deprived as I have never had a request for cash based on the poor animal and the necessity for treating it. For other misfortunes yes, such as the need to repair the roof of the family home. Perhaps we could have a specialised thread for sick buffalo stories ?. You may be right, I never had such request too, really never other than taxi money request. Butterflying has it's advantages I guess We will see what others have to say - thread started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 I run into farangs who think everything is about them. They are the center of the universe and all important. I steer clear of these ego centric men . Some man I know insists the world will end with his demise. He was warning me and I understood he had a severe narcissistic personality disorder. It may come from low self-esteem, some people are forgetting that cemeteries are full of people impossible to substitute. I'm with you being grateful that in Thailand we have such a great source of joy with all those willing , available and still smiling companions. As for your last dud- may be this way his way of showing he is faithful to his money showering farang. Sometimes nothing is wrong . it's just lack of chemistry. Boys I miss the most are neither shockingly handsome nor particularly active under the sheets / bar one / but I just feel in heaven with them beside me because chemistry seems to be right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firecat69 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Since I use GayRomeo and Jack'd a lot the few duds I get are .usually boys who show up looking nothing like their photos. I don't care if they are 3 or 4 years older but it has to be them and a reasonable facsimile of their photos.. I make that plain to them in advance so I don't feel bad when I tell them to get lost and being the sucker that I them provide them with 200 baht taxi money anyways. This represents less then 10% of the boys I contact this way. Of the remaining 90% I would have to say that would be unfair to call any of them duds. Certainly their performance differs but they all provided me with pleasure. How much pleasure is dependent on how much I tip them over the norm and whether I invite them back. Certainly I tend to hire gay boys although in Thailand I find that line can be pretty blurred and if you treat the boy with respect , you are likely to get whatever you want. The one thing I can say for sure is that the odds you will have a satisfying experience at a very low cost compared to any other country in the world is at least one of the reasons many of us keep returning to the Land of Smiles. ishfahan2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Since I use GayRomeo and Jack'd a lot the few duds I get are .usually boys who show up looking nothing like their photos. I don't care if they are 3 or 4 years older but it has to be them and a reasonable facsimile of their photos.. I make that plain to them in advance so I don't feel bad when I tell them to get lost and being the sucker that I them provide them with 200 baht taxi money anyways. I can understand paying them off if there's a grey area, where perhaps their appearance has evolved within reasonable limits but you just don't fancy it. However, if they are nothing like the photo, I think the fairest outcome it to pay nothing at all, so you are not rewarding & encouraging such dishonesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 So it looks that those of us who are more hunters, carefully picking up their prey and negotiating expectancies before closing door have minuscule chance of landing dud , whatever it means . Those who are fishers, rather than hunters, picking up whatever will show up at the hook have about 1 in 5 / Christian experience mirrors mine/ chance of not being happy. vinapu, you missed including the bottom feeders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Vinapu The legend of the famous sick buffalo !. You hear about it many times, but I feel deprived as I have never had a request for cash based on the poor animal and the necessity for treating it. For other misfortunes yes, such as the need to repair the roof of the family home. Perhaps we could have a specialised thread for sick buffalo stories ?. Dave, from responses in Dead buffalo thread so far it's clear that your suspicions about this just being a legend may hold truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joseph44 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Something in my mind blocks the money-for-sex issue. Maybe the old-fashioned thought of sex being connected to mutual feelings for each other. Plus the fact, that i can't have sex with someone I barely know. So, if I take off a boy on very rare occasions, I'll go not any further than some playing around, showering, kissing, a massage and that's about it. OK, I live in Pattaya for more than 10 years and the kid-in-the-candy store feeling has long gone. But even with my attitude towards boys I did have some bad experiences of boys leaving after 10 minutes, because their friend needed the room-key or whatever crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shuee Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 im sure we all have our fare share of duds through no fault of our own. i just simple lower the tip accordingly & point out what i was promised & what i didnt get from the boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm may be to soft hearted but just chalk duds off to experience and tip them what I usually tip unless there's total disaster which happened only once. But I don't negotiate anything preferring just to swim with the flow and see what happens so can use missed promise point to cut tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
