gumbleby Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 I agree in many ways except that I dont think that the Constitution court did any job at all. Like the reports say "it is back in your hands". If I'm not mistaken, the 2007 Constitution explicitly required elections to be held between 45 and 60 days after the dissolution of parliament. By clarifying that this rule is not written in stone, the Constitutional Court freed the hands of the government. Until this ruling, the constitution didn't really give the government the authority to postpone the election. The government couldn't prejudge this ruling without being accused of disobeying the constitution. The same limitation applies to a resignation by the government - a situation not really allowed by the constitution. The question I now have is if - by postponing the election - registration of candidatures can be reopened. If not, I believe postponing serves no real purpose - there are too many constituencies where no candidates managed to register, and by-elections would have to be held until the quorum is met. Even if registrations are reopened, any candidates in democrat strongholds are taking a major personal risk if they try to register. Quote
Alexx Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 IF the election were postponed, the registration for the Feb 2 election would be null and void (since a new Royal Decree would be issued), so candidates could then register countrywide. This would only make sense, obviously, if some kind of a compromise can be hammered out that would lead to the Democrat Party's participation; otherwise postponing would probably just lead to the same result later. I don't agree that the Court's ruling isn't substantial. It clarified that neither the caretaker government nor the EC can be held responsible for violating the constitution if they agree to postpone the election, and that they share the responsibility to make that decision. That IS a significant clarification. vinapu 1 Quote
TMax Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 What this all means is that Thailand is now divided no matter how you look at it and the situation will only get worse. That's my view of Thailand at the moment and has been for some time now, you have the current mob led by Suthep that want the govt out, the next govt will have another mob that won't be happy and they will hold mass protests to oust them. Red shirts v one lot and yellow shirts against the other lot et, wonder just how many more coloured shirt mobs will rise if they aren't happy with an elected govt? Never the less I am still planning and booking my holiday for May, I know things can move slowly in Asia but it should be sorted to a certain degree by then, maybe the military will get jack of them all and move in again. Quote
vinapu Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 ...... maybe the military will get jack of them all and move in again. You sound like you hope for that solution but it will not solve anything long time . But definitely streets of Bangkok must be unclogged before economy and residents will start suffering seriously. It would be nice if person in glasses whose portrait graces currency could step in but not sure if this is possible at this moment. It helped few years ago when few words helped to disperse mobs unhappy about Preah Vihar rulling by International Court of Justice Quote
TMax Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Personally I hope the military stay back and not get involved at all but too often they have been called in to end the protests with tragic consequences, it would be nice if all this could be sorted peacefully but at the moment I do see the protests as an endless circle. The sad part of it is that the Thai people that just want to get on with their lives are the ones being affected in the long term. We live in hope for a peaceful resolution to all the protests. Quote
Guest SpermAholic Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 The MAIN thing is that the King ruled that the election will go ahead on Feb. 2nd so anyone going against this ruling could end up with a Les Magestre arrest and end up in jail for treason for 25 years. Yingluck has already told that if Suthep ends the Bangkok Shutdown that she will re-apply to the King for a new ruling on an election postponement. Suthep doesn't even agree with this so what can anyone do with a "Thai Hitler" making his own rules up when in fact he should be in jail already on a Murder indictment. I can understand him and his followers wanting anew government but that is what negotiating tables and commitees are for, NOT trying to shut an entire country down as he is now doing. Quote
vinapu Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 that's the one of many Thailnd's problems - Bangkok is not entire country. Apparently whole North and Issan are pretty quiet. I like your "Thai Hitler" description although Suthep is far, far, far from the real thing. Quote
KhorTose Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 that's the one of many Thailnd's problems - Bangkok is not entire country. Apparently whole North and Issan are pretty quiet. I like your "Thai Hitler" description although Suthep is far, far, far from the real thing. Not really a Hitler but definitely a self appointed demigod. He was one of the most corrupt of the democratic party's politicans and now he is running as a reformer. What a joke, vinapu and TMax 2 Quote
halfhansum Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 This is all a bit confusing to me .. If the present Government has been democratically elected, how can they be ousted by demonstrators ??? And why don't the police or the army act to protect the democratically elected party ?? (But only when the Baht gets to 70 to the uk pound ..lol) Quote
vinapu Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 If the present Government has been democratically elected, how can they be ousted by demonstrators ??? And why don't the police or the army act to protect the democratically elected party ?? likely they want to avoid bloodbath counting that mob will get bored / tired and will dissipate Quote
Guest SpermAholic Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 This is all a bit confusing to me .. If the present Government has been democratically elected, how can they be ousted by demonstrators ??? And why don't the police or the army act to protect the democratically elected party ?? (But only when the Baht gets to 70 to the uk pound ..lol) Don't worry, even the Thais are confused. Thai politics makes not a lot of sense. Legally they cannot however the police and army have issued several warrants for Suthep's arrest but as the riots are getting so out of hand with the Army being told to dress as civilians, Cambodian terrorists being brought in to fight for and againts the protest and so much fatal violence NOBODY has the balls to actually arrest him. There are 16 warrants out now for the protesters however none of them have been arrested (yet). The opposition (Suthep & Anti Government protesters) know that if there is another election that the Shinawatra clan will win AGAIN and they believe this government is corrup but every government is so who is right and who is wrong. The last time Abbisit was PM he had 2 years and also did NOTHING for the Thai people so......... Quote
Alexx Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Come on, please! "The riots getting so out of hand" is how I'd describe what has been happening in the Ukraine in the last couple of weeks. It doesn't describe the situation here. In Bangkok so far, there has been precious little rioting. Protesters blocking roads and thereby causing inconvenience, yes. Rioting, not really. As for the isolated incidents of violence (shootings and grenade attacks in particular), and who has instigated them, I'd be very careful to believe any claims, no matter which camp they come from. Truth is often stranger than fiction, that much is certain. The latest round of arrest warrants for Emergency Decree violations was denied by the Criminal Court, but as there are other warrants out for the same protest leaders already, they're still facing arrest all the same. Not attempting to arrest them is probably a clever thing to do, however, at least for the time being. I fully agree on Khun Abhisit, he was really handed a big fat chance to endear himself to the populace at large, when the premiership was handed to him on the proverbial silver platter, and he was a complete and utter failure in that respect. Things could look much different now, had he succeeded. vinapu and xiluzer 2 Quote
Guest abang1961 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I am on my way to Don Muang airport now. From the short 36 hours in Bangkok, I did not notice any violence. I visited 4 rally sites at different time of the day and yes, I watched Suthep's speech at Silom on Wed 29 Jan at 6 pm. The crowd there was probably about 500 and most looked "paid" as there were very few standing audience. Calm before the storm on 2nd Feb perhaps? Quote
vinapu Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I am on my way to Don Muang airport now. From the short 36 hours in Bangkok, I did not notice any violence. I visited 4 rally sites at different time of the day and yes, I watched Suthep's speech at Silom on Wed 29 Jan at 6 pm. The crowd there was probably about 500 and most looked "paid" as there were very few standing audience. Calm before the storm on 2nd Feb perhaps? Hope you had a chance for more pleasant encounters with male human forms than Suthep during your short visit. Quote
Guest SpermAholic Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 1) This is not the Ukraine 2) The worst is yet to come after Feb. 2nd 3) 64 countries wouldn't be issuing travel warnings if there was no danger. 4) I'm in Pattaya and of course wouldn't even know there is anything going on unless I read the news or watcg TV. 5) I would say that 99% chance that a tourist has nothing to worry about however there is that 1% that it could develope into something much worse. (ok maybe 50% chance). Last but not least, if it were me making travel arrangements to Thailand I would NOT worry at all but would take advice of staying away from Rally sights. Crazy enough I was right at the main stage during the Red Riots after picking up one of my friends son & gf in Bkk. It is not smart but after awhile a crowd aroound us was getting annoyed at us being there (the son with his big camera etc.) and I could understand what they were saying about us so I was approached and asked in broken English what the fuck we were doing there (arai wah!). When I replied in perfect Thai that I was a Red supporter but was not there to actually fight along side of them and that I understood what they were saying on stage, you wouldn't have believed the ring of Thais all dancing around us telling everyone that we were Red Shirts (sua dang) and we could barely leave beacuse they all of a sudden loved us. Now I do NOT get involved with Thai politics at all and take no sides but we just so happened to be there and I wanted my buddies son to see history being made I think I made the right choice saying what I said and then getting the fuck out of there. It was VERY intense and again I would NOT reccommend any foreigners attending ANY rally sites. Quote
vinapu Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Now I do NOT get involved with Thai politics at all and take no sides........ ........I would NOT reccommend any foreigners attending ANY rally sites. Very sensible advice and very universal, applies to all countries and all political gatherings when trouble brews.. Quote
Alexx Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 1) This is not the Ukraine That was my point! You made the situation in Bangkok sound like we're in Kiev. There have been travel warnings and 'the worst is yet to come' / 'on the brink of civil war' predictions repeatedly ever since I moved to Bangkok (in 2006). I agree that it's better to err on the side of caution, and the advice you've given to travelers makes perfect sense. But as far as describing the current situation is concerned, I think you went way over the top by calling it 'riots'. xiluzer and vinapu 2 Quote
Guest SpermAholic Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 These are Riots. Wiki explination of "Riot": A riot (/ˈraɪət/) is a form of civil disorder characterized often by what is thought of as disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden against authority, property or people. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are thought to be typically "chaotic and exhibit herd behavior",[1] and usually generated by civil unrest. However, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that riots are not irrational, herd-like behavior, but follow inverted social norms.[2] If these are not riots then I don't know what are? Quote
Guest Promsak Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 That was my point! You made the situation in Bangkok sound like we're in Kiev. But as far as describing the current situation is concerned, I think you went way over the top by calling it 'riots'. Agreed 100%. This afternoon I walked up to Phrom Phong to watch the march. The inbound side of Sukhumvit was closed to traffic and full of marchers. The atmosphere was that of a real party. Marching, flagwaving people and bystanders cheering whistling and waving to the live bands on trucks. EVERYBODY SMILING. I do hate it when they are referred to as a 'MOB'. That conjures up visions of an ugly mob ---- that could not be further from the truth. I walked with them (I was going that way anyway) to and through Asoke junction with no problems or hindrance. Please Spermoholic do not comment if you have no personal knowledge of the situation! Quote
Alexx Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 These are Riots. Wiki explination of "Riot": A riot (/ˈraɪət/) is a form of civil disorder characterized often by what is thought of as disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden against authority, property or people. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are thought to be typically "chaotic and exhibit herd behavior",[1] and usually generated by civil unrest. However, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that riots are not irrational, herd-like behavior, but follow inverted social norms.[2] If these are not riots then I don't know what are? Last attempt, I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree! Wikipedia articles are typically quite lengthy, and not surprisingly, your quote ends before it gets really interesting. From the very same article: Riots typically involve "vandalism and the destruction of private and/or public property." The specific property to be targeted varies depending on the riot and the inclinations of those involved. Targets can include shops, cars, restaurants, state-owned institutions, and religious buildings. Yep, I think that's it! What is missing in Bangkok, specifically, is vandalism and destruction. That's ultimately what distinguishes an organized protest or demonstration on the one hand from a riot on the other hand. By and large, it's simply too orderly, well organized and cheerful to qualify as a riot - with professional stages, TV broadcasts, concerts, street hawkers selling trinkets... You cannot necessarily know that, observing the situation from Pattaya, but just look what people who have actually seen it first-hand have to say about it. People always seem to know at which of the many sites they're supposed to show up for certain events. Many use the BTS and MRT - and buy tickets just like anyone else! There aren't all that many chaotic scenes, and more often than not, there simply aren't any LEOs to tell the crowds to disperse, so there's not a lot of opportunity for 'civil disobedience'. Khun Suthep mentioned yesterday that their electricity bill amounts to 6 million baht per day, they even seem to pay for it! I've never before read that 'rioters' anywhere in the world volunteer to pay utilities. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/392133/in-an-exclusive-interview-kamnan-suthep-reveals-how-his-life-has-changed-since-he-abandoned-conventional-politics-and-took-his-fight-to-the-streets Quote
vinapu Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Khun Suthep mentioned yesterday that their electricity bill amounts to 6 million baht per day, they even seem to pay for it! I've never before read that 'rioters' anywhere in the world volunteer to pay utilities. I wonder who pays those bills and who will pay ultimately, obviously whole thing is well financed and this is scary thing. Quote
xiluzer Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Thank you so much Alexx and Pormsak in restoring my beliefs.. i experienced first hand of this so called mob during the my dec visit. It is nothing what i had seen in the news back home. I was surprised how friendly the "mob" were.. and the word "riot" is something negative and conjures up images of violence.. from what i've experienced, it was for from being a riot (though everybody back home who kept saying that).... Quote
Guest Tball73 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 The festive atmosphere belies the divisiveness and potential for violence from either side. I wouldn't discount the situation escalating beyond reasonable negotiations when some proverbial straw breaks the camel's back. Quote
Guest Promsak Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 The festive atmosphere belies the divisiveness and potential for violence from either side. On what are you basing this? Please do tell. Are you here? Quote
