Some Guys Are Paying The Boys Too Much

[Guest trailrider]

Well, that is my opinion.  Things in Bangkok are getting totally out of hand as far as what these stippers, money boys or whatever you want to call them, want as fees for the sex they provide.  Is this their fault?  Hell no.  It is the silly farang who are big spenders and want to show off how much they can afford.  Problem is this is causing us, who live here, to have to pay too much or just quit hiring the boys and none of us want that.

 

One of my friends, who is a self-confessed softie, recently started taking a boy off from a bar in Soi Twilight.  He said when they got to his place the boy demanded 2000 bath.  I asked if he paid it and why.  He whined that the boy was so cute he just had to have him.  I then asked him how much had been agreed to at the bar and he said it was 1500 bath but he caved in rather than make the boy unhappy.  Unhappy my ass.  The boy went for the gold and got it.  He went on to say that the boy now calls him every day.  Well duh!  I told him that sure the boy was doing this because he had a sucker on the line and wasn't about to let it get away.  This guy is not a full timer living here but comes and goes.  He is also not wealthy by any means but spends every bath he can whoring around.

 

My point is that you, and you should tell your friends this also, should not pay exhorbitant amounts to these moneyboys.  Some of you like to say "tips"  but, in reality, it is just a fee.  Bangkok is out in left field in what boys are paid.  Pattaya and Chiang Mai are both more sensible.  1000 bath is top there.

[vinapu]

This very morning I helped my elderly neighbor to carry new humidifier she purchased in the drugstore opposite our building. She paid 90 $  fully knowing that the same make could be bought for 60 $ in the hardware store 6 bus stops down the street. When asked why such waste she explained that it would be too much hassle for her to carry pretty bulky and heavy box to and from the bus and she was happy it was available that close even at 50% premium.

 

In market economy  we are overpaying for goods and services constantly for convenience, lack of time to shop, not doing homework on comparing prices etc.

 

Services of Thai boys are not exception to this. Some farangs want to show off as you noticed ,either to impress boy, their party or themselves, some don't know the going rate or don't care as long as is less then their domestic rate , some are unable to resist boy's request or not feeling comfortable haggling over price in any situation , not to mention intimate one.

 

It may create inflationary pressure on tips but I'd venture this is rather problem for other casual visitors than frequent ones or residents who should have much better knowledge of local prices and where and how to get them.

 

Read exploits of ChristianPFC who finds his regulars for 500 in the heart of BKK, option not suitable for most visitors as they don't know place and language to communicate effectively.

 

Locals are also in better position  to negotiate price with boys as have advantage of offering repeat custom .

So while some farangs are overpaying I'd not call them more silly than Lorna, my neighbor above. 

 

I agree that some boys my be greedy or just try their luck going for gold as you neatly said but this is not different from our local drugstore and their humidifiers.

 

Your friend had real choice- to make boy unhappy and possibly create a scene or go with the flow and pay / in case described  overpay as price was negotiated / .

If boy calls him everyday it may not be a bad thing if he is so cute your friend must have him but if it would be me I'd consider this to be neat possibility to negotiate digestible price. 

 

You know why boys are not calling me every day when there? I don't carry phone, and if I would certainly  will not be  providing them with number.

 

 It looks that your friend is happy with boy , boy sensed it and presented a bill.

 

I know his feeling as my last boy offed in Nov wanted 5000 in the morning for long time - I stand my ground firmly with 3000 which is more than going rate anyways but like your friend I just had to have him. Not  nice  parting ways and it looked that boy was much more unhappy than me but I consider this his fault- if you want to be paid more than going rate make sure you make it known  beforehand.

 

And there is all this black area we don't know much about- it's how much Asian customers are tipping, if less than farangs boys are trying to find compensation, if more  than we are in weaker position  as in some bars we are outnumbered big time.

 

Complains about overtipping are nothing new and discussions are always interesting while heated but what always  amazes me is that  if somebody reveals that paid say 3000 for short time  is classified as unwise spender to put it mildly but if dinner bill is quoted as 1000 or hotel room at 4000 nobody says the word about inflationary pressures automatically assuming that people have right to finance their lifestyle as they feel fit.

 

Why deny it to those who are happy to dine on street for 50 and bed in cheap places in order to save money for a other pleasures of flesh? 

 

Like your friend "spends every baht he can whoring around" , rest assured there are more people like him.

 

And as long as there are boys on the stage we have some negotiating power if we want to use it. But for some,  spoiling night over 500 baht / 16$ / price difference may not feel like worth the trouble, others will be nickel diming to the last 20 baht note.

 

 My general comment will be that IMHO lots of  complains about tip inflation comes from people who would rather pay less but do not feel comfortable in Cheap Charlie skin  and are not good in price negotiations, resigning to pay what's requested and to complain later  i.e. essentially good hearted people. And this is what Thai boys like in us.

[Guest jimnbkk]

Buying a humidifier in Thailand????? 

 

And, Trailrider, if you really live in Thailand, you should know that the currency is the Baht, not Bath.  Bath is what you do in a Tub.

[vinapu]

Buying a humidifier in Thailand????? 

 

And, Trailrider, if you really live in Thailand, you should know that the currency is the Baht, not Bath.  Bath is what you do in a Tub.

I'm at the moment as far from Thailand as it can be, it's snowy winter here and it brings dry air so humidifiers are in demand items when winter starts

[Guest trailrider]

Buying a humidifier in Thailand????? 

 

And, Trailrider, if you really live in Thailand, you should know that the currency is the Baht, not Bath.  Bath is what you do in a Tub.

Jim, until this post I have always spelled it baht but I was only two days ago corrected by a thai friend who said I spelled it wrong and that it should be spelled bath.  On your advice and that of my boyfriend I will go back to using baht.

[xiluzer]

Maybe that is the reason why gogo bars in bangkok are now suffering "customers come see show only, no take boy". They find hiring a boy is damn expensive.

 

For me, i don't mind paying extra baht if the boy is really really gorgeous and makes me go crazy!!

 

There's one boy that really stood out in jupiter last year. He was perfect! I kept eyeing him until i decided to off him. He asked for a whooping 3000 bht.. i was shocked!!! But i kept thinking that if i saw this type of perfect guy on the streets back in my country, i would be lusting over him, wishing that i could have him and would pay any amount of money to get him.

 

So... i agreed to off this guy in jupiter. It turned out that we had a great time, plus, he taught me self defense during our short time together. Anyway, he worked in jupiter for only 3 months, he has a profession but only resorted to being a whore because he had one big debt to pay. He collected enough money and quitted. Well, we are now facebook friends and i can see his sexy pics every day. hee hee.

 

So for me, 3000 bhts i can go back home and find, but my moments and experience with him ..... (incoming cheesy credit card tagline )....was priceless.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to us. If we want something so bad, then we should be willing to pay whatever the price is. If we don't... then don't bother. Move on and live with it.

[firecat69]

"At the end of the day, it comes down to us. If we want something so bad, then we should be willing to pay whatever the price is. If we don't... then don't bother. Move on and live with it."

 

In total agreement. If you don't like the  price then negotiate it down, get a different model or don't buy it.  Don't complain you don't like the price. The price of everything has been going up for years except what the boys get which has remained consistent.

 

I'd like to see the person who criticizes the boys for asking too much complain to their Doctors, lawyers  etc etc etc about their prices being unfair.

 

It is a market economy and the price for a service is set by the server providing it.  If you don't like look for a different boy and if they are all asking too much for you to afford then maybe you need to move to Cambodia.

 

And for sure do not presume to tell others how to spend their money. They can do whatever they like with the money they work for!!!

[Bob]

I just don't get the concept that I or anybody else ought to be telling or urging anybody what they should be charging for any products or services or, more to the point, what others ought to be paying for same.  I'll pay what I choose to pay and I'm not about to tell any of my friends that they're paying too little or too much.  As far as I'm concerned, it's personal choice.

 

We've seen over the years others rant against Americans for how they generally tip at restaurants.  I suppose the logic here is that it's the fault of Americans that the price of meals has increased due to their tipping proclivity?  Baloney.

[vinapu]

 

 

In total agreement. If you don't like the  price then negotiate it down, get a different model or don't buy it.  Don't complain you don't like the price. The price of everything has been going up for years except what the boys get which has remained consistent.

 

I'd like to see the person who criticizes the boys for asking too much complain to their Doctors, lawyers  etc etc etc about their prices being unfair.

 

It is a market economy and the price for a service is set by the server providing it.  If you don't like look for a different boy and if they are all asking too much for you to afford then maybe you need to move to Cambodia.

 

And for sure do not presume to tell others how to spend their money. They can do whatever they like with the money they work for!!!

 

No need to move to Cambodia, just move to soi 6, Nature Boys, Super A and Golden Cock are still there and short time can be had for 1000 according to recent post on one of forums. And Pattaya is only 2 hours away 

 

I would not be too harsh to people complaining about  boys prices but as long as we have choice and we still do my advice is rather than focus on negatives like their greed try to find out way of getting best deal using positive side ie. your bargaining power.

 

Firecat is right about stable prices. Today  I checked my notes from my first trip to BKK in November 2001  - short time 1200 and 1500, long time 2000. I also paid 2000 for my first ever short time as I did not realize difference between two ' times' until next morning was enlightened by nosy neighbor from my floor who saw me with a boy at night and asked how much I paid him at breakfast.

 

I like xiluzer attitude - you overpaid over going rate but happy memories are priceless. The same here.

 

And if at times we pay and don't get what we want, chalk it off to experience and keep in mind it's not always only boy's fault encounter did not work.

[Moses]

Words about price regulations sounds funny for me. No offense please, but boy isn't mango fruit or ticket to SkyTrain, boy hasn't "fixed price".

 

When I'm walking by streets of Pattaya at evening some boys call me: "Hey mister, buy me drink, take me home". But when I'm walking by streets of Pattaya with my BF some boys call us: "Hey guys I'll buy you drinks, take me to your home!".

 

Once in BKK at Silom boy gave us money to repay his "off" price to bar and was with us next 2 days "for free".  

 

What I want to say: there are no "too high" or "too low" prices - everything is result of agreements as the result of balance btw demand and offer.

[vinapu]

....I'm not about to tell any of my friends that they're paying too little or too much.  As far as I'm concerned, it's personal choice.

 

We've seen over the years others rant against Americans for how they generally tip at restaurants.  I suppose the logic here is that it's the fault of Americans that the price of meals has increased due to their tipping proclivity?  Baloney.

It's nothing wrong in telling people they are paying too much or too little  as long as it's not patronizing, sometimes we just don't know, specially if we are using foreign currency and don't  feel value.

 

Always amazed me why people care about American's tipping habits, their money , their culture, their pleasure. And this extra 20-50 baht tip  doesn't dent their budget but may help to  feed one more person.

 

I guess we human race like to talk about other's people money while discreet about our own. 

[vinapu]

 

Once in BKK at Silom boy gave us money to repay his "off" price to bar and was with us next 2 days "for free".  

 

 

Arena Massage let me take boys out on two separate occasions last month  without charging me off fee just because I had massage at location earlier that day so not all in sex business is about money.

[Bob]

It's nothing wrong in telling people they are paying too much or too little  as long as it's not patronizing, sometimes we just don't know, specially if we are using foreign currency and don't  feel value.

 

Agree completely.  Like most others, I'm more than eager to help others understand what the typical costs are for a lot of things here (whether boys at the bars, tuk tuk or baht bus fees, and just about everything).  My comments were only directed at the apparent notion that those "paying too much" are ruining it for those who are, let's say, less generous and that's it's our business to tell those people that they shouldn't pay or tip so much.  

[vinapu]

I gladly pay BKK prices to BKK boys and consider premium over PTY prices as a fee for living , even for week or two in such exciting city, I was bored in Rome, New York and London but never ever in Bangkok 

[ChristianPFC]

Totally agree with op, current prices in Soi Twilight are unrealistic. What I do is going to Soi Twilight only for strolling through the soi about once per week, very rarely do I enter a bar (every one or two months). I take my business to Soi 6, Pattaya, Saranrom instead.

 

There might be boys who are worth all the money you have to spend until they are in your bed, but it will be very costly to find out which one.

 

I over the years, I had about fifteen different boys in Soi Twilight, they were ok, but none of them was that great that I would take him again for that money. Then I had the sixteenth in Super A, and he was worth coming back (three times, now he has left Super A). But how much time and money have I spend on the the other 15?

 

Location wise there is not much distance between Soi Twilight and Soi 6, nonetheless in Soi 6 prices are considerable lower, on Pattaya level.

 

There seems to be a reticence among customers to pay these prices (1500 for short time, plus off fee). I hear from several sources that boys complain they don't get offed. Most recent case is my regular from Saranrom, he worked in Hotmale for 7 days I was his only customer (and I only took him from there and paid 400 Baht off fee and 1500 tip because I had told him the week before that we could meet again next week and called him that night to ask where exactly he works - he didn't know the difference between Silom, Soi 4, Surawong and Soi Twilight). Now he is back on the street. Seems 500 Baht every day in Saranrom is better than 1500 Baht once per week in Hotmale.

 

The money (tip to the boy) is not about paying rent or food, it's about driving taxi instead of bus, partying all night, having the latest mobile phone. I get strange looks when I ask boys where they live and which bus line they take to work. Bus? No! Taxi (ok, some of them share taxi).

 

The tip to the boys goes to taxi fares, partying all night, buying the latest mobile phone.

 

The high price for drinks and off fee is to pay off someone who sits at the right position, and gets money for doing nothing.

 

I am not supporting this system any more.

[firecat69]

There is a great difference between your post and the OP.  In your post you are deciding what to do with your money which is your right.  But the OP is trying to dictate what others should do with their money which is none of his business or yours or anyone else's .

 

I assure you I have far more experience then you on Soi Twilight but very little of it recently. The reason is that I feel the Bars are ripping me off and before I get to the boy of my dreams I have already spent what I could have invested in a GayRomeo, Jack'd or Grinder search or even Soi4.

 

Imagine what the boy thinks . He sees a customer on Twilight stop at a few Bars and between drinks including boy drinks, tips etc maybe spend easily 2500 baht.  Then that same customer would like the boy to take him to heaven for about 1/2 of what he has already spent. So the boy says to himself farang already spent all this money and has nothing and now he wants to make up for it by giving him the smallest tip possible.

 

So now some but not all boys are asking for more .  If everyone else wants more from drinks to off fees to food etc etc etc , why should the boy not want more.  

 

I now avoid Soi Twilight like the plague and have never had to spend much time in finding a suitable companion on GayRomeo or recently Jack'd.  It takes a little experience but you can find many boys online for a reasonable tip and even for no Tip except Taxi.

 

Many of the same boys on Soi Twilight who are asking for high tips are Online before and after work where their prices are much more reasonable.

 

So rather then complain about boys on Soi Twilight asking for bigger tips or telling farangs how to spend their money , the most intelligent thing to do is find another way to meet boys.

 

It really is not HARD!

[Guest]

I recently visited Soi Duangthawee again. Walking down the soi, I noticed a gogo bar advertising drinks at only 320 baht. So 2 drinks and an off fee is likely to be over 1100 baht before we start. Anyhow, I have splashed out to fly to Thailand and expect the first couple of nights in Bangkok to be expensive & budget for it. After strolling up and down the soi, I decided to start in Classic Boys as usual on my Thai trips. There were several cute twinky types on stage in trunks, but I decided to wait for the change of boys to see the full offer.

Whilst waiting, I advised an Asian female visitor who was asking about short time rooms in the area.

The second set of boys were larger and more muscular, so not to my taste, except for one who was near perfect. Slim, cute, nice smile, spiky hair.. After making eye contact, I swiftly beckoned him over.

Drinks & off fee came to 1100 baht.

I negotated directly with the boy and at no point was there any pressure at all from the mamasan. Exactly how it should be. Last year, Classic Boys had a better selection of twink boys than any gogo bar I visited on the trip, which included all the likely bars in Pattaya. Perhaps this year will be the same.

The boy was from Burma, but in Thailand legally studying at University, with a proprly stamped passport.

Anyhow, he was very sweet & friendly, but somewhat inert in the hotel room. I gave him 1600, which was accepted with a smile and a wai. No attempt to ask for more.

 

The next day I chatted to another Burmese guy on GR. Also looked very cute from the picture. However, he wanted 2000 and would not budge. So we did not meet. I offered the next one 1000 and he immediately accepted, with no attempt to negotiate. Had he been really good, I would have paid more, but although again very cute, this one wasn't really making any effort & left with 1000. No attempt to ask for more.

 

Considering the price situation, it seems perfectly logical that anyone in self employed freelance style work should expect to negotiate over his prices. Particularly if working in Bangkok, catering to newbie tourists. If you offer 1600, they have nothing to lose by asking for 2000. Sometimes they get the extra 400 baht, the rest of the time they get 1600 and the issue of repeat custom just doesn't come into it.

However, I suspect anyone tipping BKK gogo boys 1500 would find the same boy willing to be offed again the next night.

[firecat69]

Funny I have walked that identical path.  Turned down a Boy who was stubborn at 2000 when I spent similar to you the night before of almost 3000 baht.  Didn't make sense but if Boy was in front of you or me , probably would have paid if he looked like photos.

 

It is the one downside of online pick ups, that you don't have the goods in front of you .  hehe

[Guest anonone]

Just a quick thought about conversations with money boys.

 

There is a much different experience between developing a relationship (friendship) with a Thai boy versus a transactional approach. When some trust develops, the Thai boys will be a bit more honest and forthcoming about things. If you are viewed as an outsider, information about money earnings, number of offs, work conditions, and similar topics will be heavily filtered or misleading.

 

As alluded to by a couple of posters, Thai are not necessarily focused solely on making the most money possible. The "fun" factor, their appearance to others, their current comfort level, and other factors play heavily into how they approach things. Sometimes difficult for those of "western" backgrounds to relate to what motivates others.

[firecat69]

Been awhile since I bought a bottle. Maybe I'll do it on towel night tomorrow at Vassa???

[colmx]

Maybe I'll do it on towel night tomorrow at Vassa???

Thats exactly what i plan on doing when i get to pattaya at the end of the month!

 

From myself and my BFs perspective  - any boy that starts to haggle with us over price or negotiated what is "expected" of him in the bar does not get offed... we simply like to go with the flow

 

Like Anonone we like to off a boy or boys(s) and go to a pub or disco with them and just see how the night goes... BF just says put on your clothes and lets go drinking/dancing...

 

Of course the whole "who is top/bottom" "how big is your cock" "are you a good kisser - prove it!" questions happen later in the disco... but always in a more relaxed atmosphere where the questions are more flirtation than a negotiation...

[Guest trailrider]

There is a great difference between your post and the OP.  In your post you are deciding what to do with your money which is your right.  But the OP is trying to dictate what others should do with their money which is none of his business or yours or anyone else's .

You have distorted what I said in my original post.  I encouraged my fellow posters to not overpay boys.  I did not order or dictate to them what they should do.  Unfortuantely, your reading ability is much like your writing ability.

[vinapu]

You have distorted what I said in my original post.  I encouraged my fellow posters to not overpay boys.  I did not order or dictate to them what they should do.  Unfortunately, your reading ability is much like your writing ability.

Trailrider be nice to firecat.

 

I already thanked you for starting such interesting thread.

 

No need to be belligerent. When we start any topic and formulate any opinion we need to be prepared that it will be challenged, right or wrong , specially such sensitive topic like money and how people are using it.

 

English is only  my third language but if you go to OP you'll see you used word 'should' twice in the last paragraph hence some readers could have read it   as request not just suggestion IMVHO / v stands for very /

[vinapu]

Totally agree with op, current prices in Soi Twilight are unrealistic. . I take my business to Soi 6, Pattaya, Saranrom instead.

 

Location wise there is not much distance between Soi Twilight and Soi 6, nonetheless in Soi 6 prices are considerable lower, on Pattaya level.

 

There seems to be a reticence among customers to pay these prices (1500 for short time, plus off fee). I hear from several sources that boys complain they don't get offed. Most recent case is my regular from Saranrom, he worked in Hotmale for 7 days I was his only customer (and I only took him from there and paid 400 Baht off fee and 1500 tip because I had told him the week before that we could meet again next week and called him that night to ask where exactly he works - he didn't know the difference between Silom, Soi 4, Surawong and Soi Twilight). Now he is back on the street. Seems 500 Baht every day in Saranrom is better than 1500 Baht once per week in Hotmale.

 

The money (tip to the boy) is not about paying rent or food, it's about driving taxi instead of bus, partying all night, having the latest mobile phone. I get strange looks when I ask boys where they live and which bus line they take to work. Bus? No! Taxi (ok, some of them share taxi).

 

 

The high price for drinks and off fee is to pay off someone who sits at the right position, and gets money for doing nothing.

 

I am not supporting this system any more.

That's correct attitude - move your business to place you like more.

 

But there  may be people who don't like sleaze in soi 6 bars, may not be brave enough to cruise Saranrom in dark without ability to speak Thai / no to mention ability to run fast is somebody attacks them with knife like happened to certain Christian / and find Pattaya cheap but boring .

 

I think we tend to underestimate attractiveness of soi Twilight to casual visitors, if you pass through it  every few days you may not look at the place like somebody who flied half way through the globe   and finds himself in place like no other in the whole world. 

 

Their willingness to pay may be different than old hands who know half of the  soi by name and dick shape. 

 

Whether prices are realistic or not this is issue to be sorted by bars and they really know what is going on in their cash register.

 

I suspect you mat be correct that number of offs is low as  on my last trip I visited all bars in soi with Dreamboys multiple times plus Jupiter and Screwboys , spent at least 2 hours inside of each one plus I was dining daily at either Maxi's or Dick's and must say I did not see much traffic of farangs marching out with boys . Granted I always left soi no later than 11 p.m. so possibly there's more of it late in the night.

 

Only time will show if ours or bar owners assessment of business is correct.

 

As for what tip money is going to we had nice thread  about it  in the summer. But I walked  with  three  of my  long time offs to their bus stop on Silom or San Yan MRT so not all of them  taxi hoppers.

 

At end of day is not our business what they do with money they extracted from us although it would be nice if we were sure it went to productive use.

 

But I guarantee many of our grandmothers are rolling in the grave when they see where our hard earned money goes to when we are in Thailand, whoring , boozing and shopping for things we don't need.

 

On personal note I need to admit that I'm convert to soi Twilight, eschewing it for years not as much because prices , more that I did not like pressure from barkers when passing by and  always had better traction with massage than go-go boys .

 

Recently I noticed I like whole atmosphere, from dead silence in the morning  through hustle and bustle later on with lots of eye candy which can be observed for free or as ad-on to the dinner.

 

On issue of prices there I tend to let it go as it is but for me is easy - only 4 overnight  offs from bars as opposite to 10 massage boys. What I found and already expressed in other post is that I see logic in higher off fee at Dreamboys as I found both  their line- up and show better than in other bars.

 

I think somebody should tell me ' shut up vinapu'

[firecat69]

Trailrider be nice to firecat.

 

I already thanked you for starting such interesting thread.

 

No need to be belligerent. When we start any topic and formulate any opinion we need to be prepared that it will be challenged, right or wrong , specially such sensitive topic like money and how people are using it.

 

English is only  my third language but if you go to OP you'll see you used word 'should' twice in the last paragraph hence some readers could have read it   as request not just suggestion IMVHO / v stands for very /

 

 

You are way too polite to the OP. There is nothing bust disdain in his post both for the boys he says he hires and for the silly farangs who are Big Spenders and ruin it for the cheap Charlies.  He also has no idea what he is talking about as many boys from the Bars in Pattaya expect more then 1000.  True that Bangkok prices have always been higher then Pattaya . 

 

Many reasons for that including the customers that frequent Twilight as well as cost of living in Bangkok.

 

Let him go to the park if he wants to spend 500 baht and stop trying to tell others how to spend their money. I could care less if he can't afford the boys. Let him get a better job!