Common Courtesy eludes impatient Farang in Go-go-Bar

[ChrisUK]

I was recently in a go-go bar and after a while, selected a guy to sit with me for company. Some time after buying a drink for both of us and a pack of cigarettes for the guy, I was approached by an apologetic waiter who indicated that another customer, who arrived after me, wanted to "off" the guy. Reluctantly, I said OK, but that the other customer would have to pay the bill for the guy's drink. The waiter, guy and drink bill left me, only to return moments later. presumably because the other customer refused to pay for the drink.

 

A few minutes later, with the Mamasan having spoken to the go-go guy, an "off" bill was presented to me, which I refused as I had pre-booked a massage elsewhere for later in the evenig and could not off anyone, but wanted company in the bar for which I would tip appropriately. I then told the waiter to inform the other customer to wait about 10 minutes, after which I would be leaving and he could have the guy then. The situation remained in stalemate, with the go-between waiter apologetic and the go-go guy confused and clearly unhappy at being dragged from one end of the bar to the other between two customers.

 

I was so unhappy about the dejected look on the guy's face that I explained I was sorry about the problem the other customer had created. He looked at me, hugged my arm and said "I happy if you happy". My immediate response was to say I would definitely return to off him the next day. He smiled and kept hugging me and didn't leave me, even though I had tipped him, until I had paid my bills and left the bar.

 

Other things happened between the guy and the bar that made me feel very uncomfortable and sorry for the guy, but I don't know the specifics, so won't comment. I have no serious arguments with the bar, which remains a favourite, having had excellent, welcoming service from the owner, manager, mamasan, waiters and go-go guys previously.

 

The sour taste left in the mouth concerns the arrogant, greedy, impatient behaviour of the other customer. Maybe he was on a short term stopover where every minute counts, but that doesn't excuse his attitude. there are plenty of other guys available to be offed in that bar.Having said that, I bear no grudge and would happily shake the hand, rather than the neck of this customer, to settle any misunderstanding, as I have done on a previous occasion.

 

I won't name the bar as I'm certain this behaviour is being repeated throughout Thailand. All I ask and expect is patience and understanding if another customer has someone you desire. - Just wait your turn! I would never dream of doing to someone else what happened to me. If I see someone I fancy with another customer, I will wait for however long it takes, for him to finish with the guy, or off him.

 

We are all here to enjoy the company of Thai people, - why must some people behave like animals, snatching everything they can get away with, regardless of the consequences?

[Gaybutton]

The behavior of the "farang" was totally inappropriate. If you go into a bar and had a boy in mind to "off," if you see him with another customer you certainly don't try to take him from that customer. You either wait and see if that customer is going to "off" the boy, you wait until the customer leaves, or you find someone else.

 

If I was in a bar and had called a boy over, then if someone else tried to take that boy away, especially if I had already bought a drink for him, then my response would have been to make it clear he can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

I also blame the waiter and mama-san for allowing that situation to arise in the first place. That behavior was also inappropriate. The waiter never should have come to you to tell you that another customer wants the boy. What he should have done was tell the customer sorry, but the boy is already busy with someone.

 

Also, many people may be unaware that you can "reserve" a boy. Many bars will honor that. If you let the bar know which boy you want to take "off" and what time you'll be there, bars that accept a "reservation" will make sure the boy is available at the reserved time and allow a thirty-minute leeway. If the customer hasn't shown up by then, then he loses the reservation. If the rude customer had made such a "reservation," then there wouldn't have been a dispute. If you had called the boy over the mama-san would have (hopefully) informed you that the boy had been reserved and will have to leave when the customer who reserved him arrives.

 

One part of your story confuses me. I don't understand why you would have been presented with an "off" bill if you were not taking the boy "off." What was that all about? I hope you didn't pay that part of the bill.

[Guest rainwalker]

Actually, GB, there are no rules in place about offing a boy at a bar other than whomsoever agrees with the mamasan to off the lad first, gets to off the lad.

 

Here's my experience....

 

In a well known Boy Soi establishment about a year ago, I saw a handsome young man climb on stage. I hadn't seen him in the bar earlier and I supposed that he had come out of the back after eating his evening meal. I called over the Mamasan and directed his/her attention to the stage where, Good Lord, where was he???

 

There he was... He had been beckoned by another farang to join him. He had gone off stage and was sitting by him just beginning their conversation.

 

I pointed him out for future reference and the mamasan gave me a rundown of his vital information and then asked the magic question.. "You want off boy?"

 

I was unaware that I could - after all, he was engaged and like every other Canadian, I'm polite and self-effacing and happy to wait my turn - but I said yes and the Mamasan went to the other farang and out of courtesy said to him "You want off boy?" then pointed to me and told him if not, I would and gave him about 10 seconds to decide.

 

The farang was miffed - his hand was being forced - and he passed.

 

I offed the lad and a year later, he and I are still an item.

 

He quit the bar before we discussed a long-term stipend but now, I'm his full time patron, he's at University, and I spend weekends and a few weeknights with him when I'm in Bangkok.

 

When I get back to Pattaya on a long term basis, he'll come down on weekends and when I'm out of the country, he's on his own.

 

I often wonder what his life, and mine, would be like if the other farang had decided that he wanted to take him off.

 

So my advice is that you need to make up your mind decisively and act on that. No sense waiting around 'cause sure as shooting, someone-else is going to get there first.

[TotallyOz]

I often wonder what his life, and mine, would be like if the other farang had decided that he wanted to take him off.

 

So, you are the MF that took him? Damm you Rainwalker. I had been looking for him for months.

 

I do think the bar is in bad taste in doing this. I had that happen to me one time and I politely called the manager over and said I was having drinks with the boy and if the manager wanted to pick up my entire bin then the boy could go sit elsewhere and I would leave. It is not that I was going to off the boy but I don't think a boy should be offed when he has sat down with someone else. That is very bad poor judgment for the bar.

 

I will say that the ONLY bar that I go to that the mamasans seem genuinely interested in all the boys getting offed and working is Jimm Jimmy James. They really do want the boys to go off and work and are very happy if every boy on stage is off for the night. There are other bars that get upset when their prime boys get off as it takes away from the show or the ambiance and more importantly the number of drinks they sell.

 

I had a drink with a boy last year and told the mamasan that I wanted to off him. She said he was already off. I politely got his drink tab and gave to her and said then, this is for you. If there are not there for work and able to be offed they should not be paraded on stage. After a discussion with the owner, he came back and said he could be offed. I kept him for a few days and had a great time with him. But, the guy who wanted to off him that night turns out to be his current BF to this day. It really is a small world we live in.

 

[Guest Hedda]

So much for the early bird getting the worm.

 

Frankly, I don't like the way that either mamasan handled the matter, by forcing a farang to decide whether he wanted to "off" a guy he probably met 3 minutes earlier, simply because another farang was bird dogging the guy from the back row, and the bar didn't want to miss an off.

 

It's the kind of thing, however, that one has come to expect in many Pattaya bars, where they think that "customer relations" means that his brother is waiting in back to dance next if he gets offed.

 

I'm sure that Rainwalker is eternally grateful that it worked out the way it did, and there's nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean that his happy ending isn't also a story of a lousy way to run a railroad or gogo bar, in my bar-hopping opinion.

[Guest TruthTeller]

Poor guys. The boys are working and not with you. What a calamity! What ever shall we do? How about getting over it? They are there to work and to get off. If you don

[Gaybutton]

Actually, GB, there are no rules in place about offing a boy at a bar

 

That is correct. There are no rules per se, but I don't think it is right to try to take a boy who is already sitting with another customer. I also don't think the bar is right to permit it, even if the boy just sat down and no drinks had even been ordered yet. If I was a customer in a bar that did that to me, that's the last time I'd be in that bar.

 

I too am happy that it worked out for you, but the same boy would have very likely have been there the next night. From what you wrote, I don't think you would have done that if the mama-san had not gone over to that "farang."

 

How would you have felt if the situation was reversed? I just don't think a boy is fair game if he is already sitting with someone else.

[Guest rainwalker]

How would you have felt if the situation was reversed?

I would have offed him PDQ.

 

The bar is, after all, a commercial venue and I think the operative analogy might be first come, first served.

 

The place exists in order to turn a dollar; the boys work to turn a dollar, and we are the engine of that commerce. They owe us, in real world terms, the least amount of service and deference to our sensibilities that they can get away with so long as that level of service doesn't impair the bottom line.

 

William Burroughs titled one of his books "The Naked Lunch" and Jack Kerouac has been kind enough to supply us with a by-now stock interpretation of the title of his friend's oeuvre:

 

"The title means exactly what the words say: Naked Lunch - a frozen moment when everyone sees what is on the end of every fork."

 

Bars with boys are a flesh peddling business - yes I know that they are companions and not prostitutes etc etc - and those of more refined sensibilities might try to find a different way of meeting commercial companions.

 

What's at the end of every fork in a boy bar?

[Guest pete1969]

I'm sorry, but IMO, if you are not planning on offing a boy, then you should have no problem allowing the boy to be offed that night and should gladly cede the off to a customer who wants to actually take the boy off. After all, wouldn't you want the boy to earn money?

 

I've had numerous boys sit with me and drink with me who were offed by other customers. On a couple of occassions, I've offed boys who were sitting with other customers. To me, the rule of thumb has always been, and always should be, whoever pays the off fee first gets the boy. As long as the person the boy is sitting with gets the chance to off the boy first, then what is the problem? In the case of the OP, he was asked if he wanted to off the boy. Same with Rainwalker, when the other customer was asked first if he wanted to off the boy before RW offed him.

 

I do, however, think it is rude if the captain or mamasan does not tell you if a boy is reserved who you ask to sit with you. Like GT, I'd probably refuse to pay for the drink. If I know a boy is reserved and decide to buy him a drink anyway, then that is my decision at that point. I've bought drinks for reserved boys, but always knew ahead of time they were waiting for a customer.

 

I wonder what some of you think about those customers who gather five or six of the cutest boys in the bar for a hours of drinking at the busiest time of the night and then does not off any of them and leaves them all with a cheap tip and a very decreased chance of getting a paying customer that night. Isn't it fair to let other customers actually off the boys, so they can make money?

 

There have been many times when my BF and I have had a number of boys drinking with us that we had no intention of offing and that we were delighted got offed by other customers (the boys were delighted as well). If you want to off a boy, then off him. If you just want him to have a drink with you for whatever reason, then show some courtesy to the staff, the other customers, and especially to the boy and let him be offed.

 

I'm sorry, Chris, but I think the bar did exactly the right thing in asking you if you wanted to off the boy (and gave you first dibs). IMO (and probably in the eyes of the staff), you were the rude one for making such an uncomfortable scene for everyone involved when you knew you were not going to off the boy that night.

 

Pete

 

 

[Guest Hedda]

"They owe us . . . the least amount of service and deference to our sensibilities that they can get away with so long as that level of service doesn't impair the bottom line."

 

Well, that's certainly one way to look at the service business.

 

I would prefer to think that the secret to business success, especially in the service industry, is to provide the best service you can, so long as that level doesn't impair the bottom line. In this case, that means telling the second farang that the boy is already occupied.

 

The suggestion that the bar should only give you "'first dibs" is great for the bar and the boy, but not the customer who's bound to feel that he's being hustled into deciding if he wants to "off" a boy when he's just met him.

 

Frankly, that 's just an invitation to hustle every customer with the same con game that someone else wants the kid, so be better be quick and decide. If I knew a bar was playing that game, it would be the last time I went shopping there.

[Gaybutton]

I agree with Hedda on this issue. Rainwalker, you said it yourself. "I think the operative analogy might be first come, first served." Isn't the customer who called the boy over the one who is first come? Yes, the bar wants to make money. Yes, the boy wants to make money. I appreciate that, but part of the bar business is for boys to be called over to sit with customers. I don't see anything in any of these arguments that convinces me that if I've called a boy over to sit with me, then it's perfectly ok for another customer to enter, say he wants to "off" the boy I've called over, and now I have to either "off" him or cede him to the customer. If the second "farang" wants to take the boy "off," then why can't he wait to see what the first "farang" is going to do instead of forcing him to decide right then and there if he is going to take the boy "off"? I would be very angry if I had just bought a drink for the boy and suddenly I'm told that I need to decide right then and there whether I'm going to take him "off" or let someone else take him.

 

I find it difficult to understand how anyone can feel a correct or polite thing to do is to walk into a bar, see a boy already sitting with another "farang," and think it is perfectly ok to try to take that boy for himself without giving a damn that he is already sitting with someone else. If it were me, I would say to the Mama-San, "If that "farang" does not off the boy, then I would like to after he leaves." That way, if the first "farang" does not "off" the boy, you'll still be able to without imposing on him.

 

I do agree with pete1969 that if a customer has called several boys over, then there should be no problem about asking for one of them, but even then that is something I would never do.

 

But when it is one-on-one, that's a different story. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as helping the boy make money. I see it as unjustified selfishness.

[Guest rainwalker]

Or perhaps it is just enlightened self-interest??

 

"Money talks and bull**** walks" is a common saying in the business I'm in (start-up companies, stocks, investments: an industry that needs trust and fast, solid decision making to function) and I see no reason to be polite and deferential to someone else's desires.

 

That hardly qualifies as a survival trait. (Except with friends, who one doesn't f*** over.)

 

Especially in something as primal as sex.

 

First come first served also implies that someone is buying and not browsing and I'll be damned if I'll wait for someone to decide if they want something for as long as they choose to mull things over.

 

If you're in a new car showroom sitting in that shiny black car and I'm attracted to it as well, should I wait for you to make up your mind? What if it takes a day or two? Or in the case being discussed, an hour. And what if there are other folks waiting as well?

 

I'm not waiting. Not on your life. Why wait? So you'll like me? Hell, no.

 

(I don't care if you or anyone else likes me. I do care if my friends do and I'm well known for calling people out who betray trust, so rest assured that if a friend is sitting with someone, it is hands-off.)

 

I'm not dealing with any other prospective client at a bar, I'm dealing with the house and the house and then the lad can decide what they want to do.

 

A bird in the hand .....

 

________________________________

 

Continuing with shiny black cars for a moment and more Jack Kerouac....

 

This is a glimmering bit of poetry, found at the heart of Jack Kerouac

[Guest Geezer]

...

[Guest freeyourmind]

I have read all the prior posts and I agree there are merits to all the different scenarios. Fortunately I don

[Gaybutton]

Or perhaps it is just enlightened self-interest??

 

Not to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing but pure selfishness. What, exactly, would you do if you try to take a boy "off" who is already sitting with another customer, and that customer says no, I was here first and he's with me? Would you argue about it? Would you try to force him? Would you try to get the mama-san to intervene on your behalf? Would you make a scene? How far are you prepared to go to get the boy over the objections of the customer who is already with him?

 

What would be your response if you had called a boy over to sit with you, bought him a drink, are trying to get to know him a little and then make your decision as to whether you want to "off" him or not, and somebody just walks in and snatches him from you? Somehow I doubt you would say no problem and be smiling about it. I think you'd be mad as hell.

 

I don't see how first come, first served means someone is buying and not browsing. What's wrong with browsing? I browse before I buy. Don't you? Your showroom analogy makes no sense to me at all. That showroom has a lot more cars than just the one. Besides, if you want to use a showroom analogy, the first "farang" isn't browsing. He'd be browsing if he was sitting there watching the boys on the stage and had not yet called a boy over. Once he does call a boy over and buys him a drink, he just made a down payment. He has the right to continue with the sale or cancel it within a period of time. Just because someone else wants the same car, that doesn't mean he has to make an instant decision.

 

I'll give you another analogy. You're in a grocery store. There's a box of cookies on the shelf, a brand you like, but it's the only box in the store. You take the box and are holding it in your hand, but you haven't yet decided whether you're going to buy. Someone else comes up to you and asks if you're going to buy it. You tell him you're thinking about it, but haven't decided yet. With that he grabs it out of your hand and says in that case it's his and he's buying it, and off he goes to the cash register.

 

You ask, "Why wait?" Because the other customer was there first and has already spent money on the boy. It's called common courtesy. As I said, I don't think a boy is fair game when he is already with another customer.

 

[khaolakguy]

These bars are not cookie shops, or geisha bars, where you are paying for company. These are brothels where guys are in the shop window for sex. While the 100 Baht tip for the boy you have been boring for an hour is appreciated, he ain't going to be able to live on tips that size.

 

Ladies, you sound like Victorian Gentlewomen at a Country House Ball with your "Rules of Engagement"!

 

"Might I have the honour of the next waltz M'Lady Darcy"

 

" I am sure that i would be delighted to accept if I can M'Lord Gaybutton. Please allow me to check my dancecard. Oh I must humbly apologise, as I can see that the most earnest Lord Blackadder has already booked me, and alas my dancecard is full for the rest of the evening too".

 

You only have to look at the expression on the face of a guy who has spent an hour sitting with some farang, while he nurses his drink, and misses opportunities to be offed, to know that they are there to be offed, they want to be offed, and if you want to waste their time, at least have the decency to let them go off if there is a customer who definitely wants to take them. And be happy for them.

 

Miserable old grouches. Just because you have bought a guy a drink, you think you have the right to monopolize him for the evening.

[Guest Geezer]

...

[Gaybutton]

" I am sure that i would be delighted to accept if I can M'Lord Gaybutton. Please allow me to check my dancecard. Oh I must humbly apologise, as I can see that the most earnest Lord Blackadder has already booked me, and alas my dancecard is full for the rest of the evening too".

 

From his lordship: El toro poo poo.

 

We're not talking about what the boy would choose to do. We're talking about the behavior of the "farang." We're also not talking about monopolizing a boy for an evening. The incident at hand is the fact that ChrisUK was with a boy when a "farang" walked in and forced a situation, not to mention sticking ChrisUK with the "off" fee. Are you seriously saying that you would walk into a bar, see a boy sitting with a customer, and then try to "off" that boy while he is still with that customer?

[khaolakguy]

From his lordship: El toro poo poo.

 

We're not talking about what the boy would choose to do. We're talking about the behavior of the "farang." We're also not talking about monopolizing a boy for an evening. The incident at hand is the fact that ChrisUK was with a boy when a "farang" walked in and forced a situation, not to mention sticking ChrisUK with the "off" fee. Are you seriously saying that you would walk into a bar, see a boy sitting with a customer, and then try to "off" that boy while he is still with that customer?

 

Yes, because he is only a customer of the bar at that point, and has no proprietoral control over the guy that he has asked only for a drink, at that point. I would of course ask the waiters or mamasan to check that the guy was interested.

 

By the way I don't know why you feel able to dictate what "we" are talking about. Is this some exclusive club where "others" cannot widen the topic to include the views of the guys. Yes "guys", not "boys".

 

Everyone professes, in threads other than this, their best intentions towards the guys, however it seems that where the guys best opportunity to get an off is concerned ,we are more motivated in maintaining some spurious protocol, than allowing him that freedom. Now that is self interest, smeared with hypocrisy!

 

As I recall the opening post, Chris was mostly concerned with the bad manners of the Offer, in not being prepared to be gracious about it. I agree with Chris that that would be the best thing to do. However I have been in his situation, and if I have been chatting to a guy that I have not been intending to off, and if he has had the opportunity to do his job and earn an income, I have wished him good luck, and hoped that his punter would pay him well.

 

And no, I haven't asked to be reimbursed for the drink or drinks that I have bought him!! How petty can you get?

 

I know that El Toro is a bull, and I know that poo poo is a childs expression for shit, but what the conjunction of expressions means................oh, I got it, bull****. How quaint.

 

 

 

[Gaybutton]

By the way I don't know why you feel able to dictate what "we" are talking about.

 

You're very good at twisting around what people mean. I meant, "This is what we have been talking about." If you didn't understand that, then I have my doubts about your command of English.

 

I fully support the best intentions for the boys, but I don't see you writing about the best intentions for the boy. You are writing your response as if that boy is the only boy in the bar. There are quite a few other boys in the same bar who also want to be taken "off." If you're trying to take a boy "off" who is already with another customer, you're going to have to go a long way to explain to me how you have the best intentions of the boy at heart and not your own self interest. I hope, since you are so well intentioned, you're not one of these people who takes a boy "off" and then gives him a lousy tip, as many people post and try to justify.

 

I can't speak for others, but if a boy is already with a customer, then I'll either "off" another boy, wait until the customer with the boy either takes him "off" or leaves, or return another night. What I won't do is try to take the boy he is already with, especially when there are other boys in the bar to choose from who also want to be taken "off." If that is a "spurious protocol," then I'll abide by the spurious protocol. If you're going to enter a bar and try to take the very boy who is already with another customer, that's your affair.

[Guest Hedda]

"Money talks and bull**** walks" is a common saying in the business I'm in ...and I see no reason to be polite and deferential to someone else's desires. That hardly qualifies as a survival trait. (Except with friends, who one doesn't f*** over.) Especially in something as primal as sex.

Remind me not to turn my back on you at your little party, dear. You have emerged in this thread as Pattaya's PI Barnum, the PI standing for primal instincts.

 

I only hope you are posting these remarks as a spoof of some ruthless bar baron or dragon-lady mamasan, and not from conviction. "Greed is good" is hardly a new concept in the business world, but seldom have I seen it preached as good business practice in delivering customer service. We may be old and gay, dear, but that doesn't mean we enjoy getting hustled in a bar.

 

Based on some of the comments made in this thread, it''s obvious that the premise that there's a sucker born every minute is alive and well in the Pattaya bar business.

 

If you think that business ethics should be that loose because it's the flesh trade, why not hire some farang to act as a shill in the bar, using him as an excuse for the mamasan to push suckers into offing boys quickly, just to escape losing him to some shill of a suitor.

 

Perhaps they should post a sign "Rainwalker shops here" on the bars who endorse these tactics so we all know which bars to avoid.

 

I still hope it's all been tongue in cheek . . . well above the belt.

[Guest luvthai]

Many times I have gone to a bar with no intention of offing a boy but after sitting and talking with him then decided to off him. Given the info we have it would seem the proper thing to do would be to allow the boy to finish his drink and then migrate to the other farang. The other farang knows the bar scene and should know that the boy is working and is available to anyone that pays for his time whether it is a drink or an off. I have been in the other guys shoes also and have gone to a bar only to find the boy i liked already occupied. I have never tried to off the boy out from under the other customer but have left my number with the waiter with instructions to give it to the boy and have him call if not offed. Sometimes tho once you make eye contact with the boy the boy will then excuse himself from his customer and migrate to you. It is all a matter of courtesy.

[Guest pete1969]

I'm sorry, but the logic really escapes me here.

 

Chris has already stated that he knew he was not taking the boy off for the night. Yet he also wanted to deny him to a customer who did want to take him off even though he was asked politely if he wanted to off the boy. IMO, buying a guy a drink does not mean one should be able to deny him the opportunity to make a living by going off and the bar the chance to earn an off fee.

 

I asked my BF about this (and he is as professional and as curteous as they come which is one of the reason I was attracted to him), and he thought I was making a joke. For him, as long as the customer with whom the boy is sitting is given first dibs, then that customer should have no issue if the boy is offed by someone else if the original customer does not want to off him.

 

I also don't really understand how long it really takes to make a decision if you want to off a guy. I usually know within a few minutes, and for a majority of the guys I off, I know almost as soon as they sit down next to me. If I'm really on the fence about the guy, and someone else indicates they want to off the boy, then I'd gladly let him go off with someone else as I wasn't that sold on him anyway.

 

I've also been in countless situations where the boy or boys sitting with me were just friends that I had no intention of offing, so I would welcome anyone who wanted to off them to inquire. I've also been on the other side, when I did not know the status of the boy sitting with a customer, so I asked the captian, and it turned out the boy was available to be offed. On a couple of occassions, I've also "rescued" guys who were being mauled by farang who had no intention of offing them and who just wanted an easy hour long grope for a lousy tip. There are just a huge number of instances IMO when it is perfectly fine to off a guy sitting with a customer who has no intention of offing him.

 

BTW, I also think it fine to tell a mamasan or captian that you are not sure yet if asked if you are going to off a boy and to give you a few minutes to finish your drink with the boy. However, if after a drink and chat for ten minutes, you still don't know if you want to off a boy, and you know another customer does want to off him and is waiting, then I don't see how anyone could argue that you should in all fairness continue to monopolize the boy. At that point, it is either shit or get off the pot (to add yet another shitting metaphor ;-) ).

 

Pete

 

 

[Guest rainwalker]

Remind me not to turn my back on you at your little party, dear. You have emerged in this thread as Pattaya's PI Barnum, the PI standing for primal instincts.

When it come to sex, a wired instinct, the operative phrase becomes "All is fair in love and war" with some exceptions, naturally

 

This is no spoof, it is true and if you believe that because you might want something or someone, that I should wait until you decide, I regret to inform you that in the eyes of many, you are asking for idealized behavior.

 

You're not getting hustled by the bar; the bar is asking you to make up your mind because, if you're just browsing, there's a buyer over there and you have the first right of refusal albeit on a short fuse.

 

The question of ethics has come up and I have difficulty understanding how folks with (I assume, like myself) somewhat blotted escutcheons have the audacity to ask for purity of thought and action in this setting.

 

And this setting is not a gentlemen's club; it is a boy bar where turnover is what makes the bar a profit and the boys a living. It is a market; buyers and sellers meet and transact business - everything else is window dressing.

 

Again, I'll point out that it is up to the bar and the lad to handle the punters and their desires.

 

And as to your safety at the 3rd Annual All Gay Forum Meet and Greet at Memories on December 2nd, Hedda, dearest, i promise you that your ever-so delectable tush is safe from my primitive instincts.

 

Oh, so very safe.

 

Safe maak maak

 

Inviolate, even.

 

And so, with a nod to PT Barnum, I'm heading 'This way to the egress." ------>

[Gaybutton]

Many times I have gone to a bar with no intention of offing a boy but after sitting and talking with him then decided to off him.

 

I agree with luvthai's post. I don't buy the argument that someone may be 'rescuing' a boy from a groping "farang." What is he being "offed" for? A dinner companion? Sorry, but the only reason I can see that one customer would try to "off" a boy who is sitting with another customer is to satisfy himself. Somehow, I can't picture a "farang" as a knight in shining armor coming to the rescue by taking a boy "off," and then taking that same boy to his hotel room for sex. That's a rescue? I don't see it that way. Suppose there are two or three boys sitting with groping "farang." Are you going to 'rescue' all of them? Somehow, I doubt that a person "offing" a boy under those circumstances is thinking about rescuing him.

 

I also don't see why someone should have to be on a ten-minute timetable to decide whether he wants to "off" a boy or not. Sometimes you know immediately and sometimes you don't.

 

I think part of the issue is who has the priority, the person already with a boy or the person who walked in, saw the boy with someone else, and wants to take him "off." One of them is going to be the loser. Should it be the person who got there first or the person who came in later?

 

I think if someone just has to have the boy who is already with someone else, then luvthai has got the best way to do it.

 

Personally, I hope that anybody who "offs" a boy who is already sitting with someone else ends up having "offed" a total dud. Then tell me all about how happy you are that you came to the rescue.