Back in Thailand

[vinapu]

As long as we have that choice we are good.

 

I leave complaining about prices to others as IMHO Thailand is still one of best value for money  countries in the world for travel for both vanilla and body to body tourists. 

 

I think Bangkok relies more on  occasional sex tourist who is not adverse to pay those prices once every few years or may be once in the lifetime while Pattaya relies more on long term and returning visitors who are more inclined to look around for a  better deal.

 

I still recall my first visit to the soi Twilight almost 12 years ago and remember I'd pay any price quoted for any drink as soon as I entered my first bar  , owners are cashing in on the novelty value and are getting away with murder for this very reason.

 

And it's not that difficult to avoid those prices with beer bars , massages and GR .

Bangkok Massage across the soi from Dreamboy charges 700 for oil massage and min tip is 700 for a total 1400, weigh it against 380 for drink and 600 off fee from the Dreamboys and now we are presented with real choice  before even boy tip is considered..

[Guest]

When visiting a gogo bar, it's best to think you're not paying for the drink, but also for the entertainment on stage and any bribes that have to be paid to allow the business to operate.

 

Having considered that, the drink prices are reasonable.

 

Where else in the world can you get the kind of gogo bar experience that Thailand offers?  Where there is any form of gogo bar, I'll bet the drinks prices are inflated.

 

Of course Bangkok is more expensive than Pattaya, but the prices they charge are what the market will bear.  On my first ever visit, I thought even Bangkok was cheap, however price increases and currency fluctuations now have increased the cost significantly.

I deal with this by limiting my stay in that city to 2~3 nights and setting the daily budget about 50% higher than for staying in Pattaya.  Meeting some freelancers can help cut the budget too.

 

One more tip on budgeting.  I guess the typical tourist might spend 11 months a year in their own country and 2~4 weeks in Thailand. Many of those tourists could probably make some simple changes to their expenditure patterns for the 11 months in their own country to free up some cash for their holiday.

[fedssocr]

I think that's the right way to think of it. You're basically paying a cover charge for the entertainment not just for the drink.

 

I haven't been up there in a little while, but IIRC the strip clubs in Montreal do not charge especially inflated drink prices. But the clubs there are allowed by law. So maybe that makes a difference. Of course if you make a plan to see one of the guys outside of the bar you'll pay a lot more than in Thailand. And even their "private" lap dances are somewhat pricey. So I suppose things even out a bit. But if you just want to go to the bar and have a couple of drinks while you watch the show I believe it's a good bit cheaper. Then again the show is very different as well. And I know some of the clubs up there don't pay the dancers much (if at all) so the guys make their money in tips. I believe Remington's in Toronto used to charge the guys who worked there a fee for the opportunity to dance in the club. So, completely different business model.

[firecat69]

"Where else in the world can you get the kind of gogo bar experience that Thailand offers?  Where there is any form of gogo bar, I'll bet the drinks prices are inflated."

Most of what you say is true.  But this particular sentence is not.  I lived in Montreal for 6 years where the GoGo Bars put anything Thailand has to shame.

 

Nude, Hard etc and still that way.  Drinks are 1/2 the price of Soi Twilight.  Now if you want to take the boy home that is a different story but the boys are independent contractors and the bar has nothing to do with it. And even there with boys in Dreamboys demanding 2000 baht or more the price for off at 600 baht the actual price for sex is getting much closer.

 

But believe me the GoGo experience makes Thailand look like a Joke in comparison. Of course the weather sucks 8 months out of the year. Again I am just talking about GoGo Bar experience and what the Bar provides you while you are in the Bar.  And there are other places in North America and the world where just the GoGo Bar experience puts Thailand to shame.

 

Since I spend 4 months a year in Thailand, it is easy to see it is not for the GoGo Bar experience but for the boys in my bed.

  No where in the world can you have access to so many willing boys for these  prices but the GoGo Bars are not providing it for many of us anymore. Grindr , Jack'd ,Gayromeo and no need to bother with the 1 knee shuffle.

[vinapu]

I think that's the right way to think of it. You're basically paying a cover charge for the entertainment not just for the drink.

 

I haven't been up there in a little while, but IIRC the strip clubs in Montreal do not charge especially inflated drink prices. But the clubs there are allowed by law. So maybe that makes a difference. Of course if you make a plan to see one of the guys outside of the bar you'll pay a lot more than in Thailand. And even their "private" lap dances are somewhat pricey. So I suppose things even out a bit. But if you just want to go to the bar and have a couple of drinks while you watch the show I believe it's a good bit cheaper. Then again the show is very different as well. And I know some of the clubs up there don't pay the dancers much (if at all) so the guys make their money in tips. I believe Remington's in Toronto used to charge the guys who worked there a fee for the opportunity to dance in the club. So, completely different business model.

Visited said Remington few years ago , beer 4.50 or 4.75 so price with tip will be 6 $=180 baht, you are right , much cheaper than Soi,

Private lap dance was 20$ per song, song lasting 3-5 minutes. Got toughly-feely with very handsome dancer for about 20-25  minutes, 5 songs. Cost 100 $ = 3000 baht. Then realized that this is more then generous  long-time tip in BKK.

 

Since then strictly follow z909 advice above- make adjustments to expenditure patterns at home  and save money for holiday.

 

 

Generally our view on bar pricing depends on whether we are:

 

long term residents- obviously not willing or able to afford those prices on daily basis,

 

people on longer , once a- lifetime vacations who will be more prolific spenders but still watching budget, specially toward end of vacation 

 

and all those Singaporeans  on long weekend hops to LOS or people  visiting Thailand for short period of time / 5 or 7 days in my case/ on the way to, from or between other countries in region whose tolerance for prices is much higher as usually we are on the way to airport before money run out and do not want to waste an opportunity over overpriced 10-13 $ drink. 

 

So no reason to consider anybody cheap Charlie or fools parting soon with money as our motivations and spending patters  are different.

 

I,  for one probably overspend on drinks, boy tips and definitely massages, others spend much more on restaurants, fancy hotels, taxis , discos, saunas etc.  After all those are our vacations and we can treat ourselves however we see fit.

 

Is bad to wake up  in the morning feeling like idiot over spending way too much in the bar last night and also no good to open eyes to empty space in the bed beside over difference in tip's size. 

[MrBill]

I think that's the right way to think of it. You're basically paying a cover charge for the entertainment not just for the drink.

 

I haven't been up there in a little while, but IIRC the strip clubs in Montreal do not charge especially inflated drink prices. But the clubs there are allowed by law. So maybe that makes a difference. Of course if you make a plan to see one of the guys outside of the bar you'll pay a lot more than in Thailand. And even their "private" lap dances are somewhat pricey. So I suppose things even out a bit. But if you just want to go to the bar and have a couple of drinks while you watch the show I believe it's a good bit cheaper. Then again the show is very different as well. And I know some of the clubs up there don't pay the dancers much (if at all) so the guys make their money in tips. I believe Remington's in Toronto used to charge the guys who worked there a fee for the opportunity to dance in the club. So, completely different business model.

Remington's and Flash in Toronto charge 155 bht (5.00) cover. Bars in MTL don't charge cover. Both T.O. and MTL charge about 187 bht (6.00) for beer/soda and 311+bht (10.00 and up) for mixed drinks. Neither has off fees for the boys but "tips" to take a boy off will run you 3110 - 4666 bht (100.00 - 150.00 or more)in Canadian$. Tips for private dance now run 311 bht per song for no touching and 622 bht per song for touching above the waist. They mix a lot of songs and if your not careful, a 5 minute private "dance" can cost you $60 - $80 Canadian! Safve to say, BKK and Pattaya are a FAR better deal for the money

[firecat69]

That may be but that is not the point.  The point is there are far better GoGo Bars in the world then Bangkok and they don't need to charge the high prices that Soi Twilight charges.

 

Soi Twilight Bars provide next to nothing but a 1 knee shuffle in underwear when 90% of their boys are available online without the high charges fro drinks.

 

The proof is Pattaya provides all the same things at 1/2 the price . Soi Twilight gets away with these high prices because they have predominately Asian customers.

 

When the Asians eventually discover that for a 1 hour longer ride from the airport to Pattaya that everything including the SEX becomes much less expensive then Soi Twilight will be forced to change their model or go out of business.

 

This trip there are definitely more Asian customers in Pattaya and the word will spread.

 

Of course I love Thailand which is why I make 4 trips a year there at least.  But the actual GoGo Bars not the sex are nothing compared to Montreal and other parts of the World.

 

Believe it or not there are many customers that enjoy going to Bars and only rarely are interested in the Sex component.  Far more is offered for those customers in Montreal and other places for 1/2 the price.

 

There is no way Soi Twilight can justify their prices except it is what the traffic will bear!

[vinapu]

 

The proof is Pattaya provides all the same things at 1/2 the price . Soi Twilight gets away with these high prices because they have predominately Asian customers.

 

When the Asians eventually discover that for a 1 hour longer ride from the airport to Pattaya that everything including the SEX becomes much less expensive then Soi Twilight will be forced to change their model or go out of business.

 

This trip there are definitely more Asian customers in Pattaya and the word will spread.

 

 

There is always remote danger that increased presence of Asians in PTY will eventually lead to increase of prices there as it did in BKK

[Bob]

I don't quite buy the premise that Asians as a group are causing the prices to rise anywhere in Thailand.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  If one had to guess and single out a group that might be doing that, we westerners would get the prize in my view.

 

And I also can't fathom the premise that the Asians will cause Bangkok prices to lower when they figure out it's cheaper to go to Pattaya.  If they're the big spenders, why would they look for a cheaper alternative?

[TotallyOz]

I don't quite buy the premise that Asians as a group are causing the prices to rise anywhere in Thailand.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  If one had to guess and single out a group that might be doing that, we westerners would get the prize in my view.

 

And I also can't fathom the premise that the Asians will cause Bangkok prices to lower when they figure out it's cheaper to go to Pattaya.  If they're the big spenders, why would they look for a cheaper alternative?

Bob, I was in Dream Boys a few months back and the cost was like 360 baht a drink. I was one of only two white people in the audience. The rest were Asian. I was with a good friend who asked the owner about the rates and he said that only the expats cared about it. He said the vast majority of his customers were from Singapore and Hong Kong and they never complain about the cost or the service. He made it clear that he did not care if a westerner came into his places or not as he was just find with the way things were going.

 

I have another friend who use to go there often and order 10 or more drinks each night and the owner knows this. He approached the owner and told him that he would go in for the evening and buy drink after drink if he would lower the price to say 220 baht a drink. The owner said, "No thanks. Find another Bar." So, I guess he is very happy with his clientele which is mostly Asian.

 

Likewise, my favorite Hero is often filled with Thais and other Asians and they could care less if a Westerner is there.

 

It is just the way these particular places make their money. IMHO

[ChristianPFC]

Some interesting facts. Didn't know that there are bars elsewhere where the boys have to pay to work there.

 

I think I read on stickmanweekly that price structure in girl bars is completely different (drink price, off fee, tip).

 

It is clear to me that I don't pay for the drink, but for being allowed to enter the bar. I go to bars to watch boys in underwear with the intention to off one. There is an influx of customers when the show starts, I usually leave the bar when the show starts. It might be that the show is the expensive part of running a bar, that would mean I pay for something I don't want. Luckily, there are some bars without shows.

 

An interesting question: does one group of customers (those who only come to watch or those who come to off) subsidize the other group? What is the ratio of these two groups in different bars, Asian and Farang customers, tourists and expats?

[firecat69]

I don't quite buy the premise that Asians as a group are causing the prices to rise anywhere in Thailand.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  If one had to guess and single out a group that might be doing that, we westerners would get the prize in my view.

 

And I also can't fathom the premise that the Asians will cause Bangkok prices to lower when they figure out it's cheaper to go to Pattaya.  If they're the big spenders, why would they look for a cheaper alternative?

 

Bob,

 

It is not they are big spenders. They don't know any better and prices are still ok vs. what they pay in their home country.

 

They are like anyone else if they find a cheaper alternative which provides the same enjoyment they will move which is why there are more Asians in Bars of Pattaya then ever before and it will grow I am sure.

 

 

Westerners are the cheapest by far of visitors to Pattaya , some because they are expats and some because they realize the prices on Soi Twilight are ridiculous and they will not pay.

 

I have no idea where you get the idea that Westerners are the Big Spenders. Nothing could be further from the truth!!!!

 

The only possible place you could be right is that Americans tend to be seen as big tippers in restaurants because of the tipping policy ingrained in the USA.

 

Since Westerners make up about 5% of the spenders on Soi Twilight, that should be more then enough proof.

[firecat69]

So glad to be back in Pattaya.  I found Grindr and Jack'd very unresponsive in Bangkok as compared to Pattaya. And of course Gayromeo is much easier in Pattaya also.  I still love Bangkok but it only took me until 30 minutes after my arrival to have this Tiger in my bedroom.

 

Of course also glad to get away from 330 baht diet cokes.  Ridiculous!!!

[vinapu]

Bob, I was in Dream Boys a few months back and the cost was like 360 baht a drink. I was one of only two white people in the audience. The rest were Asian.

The same happened to me in May in Jupiter 2 nights in row. And I liked it because I was ignored completely by mamasans other than first drink.

 

Imagine , good hour in the bar without familiar pestering, just this is worth 300 baht drink.

[MrBill]

So glad to be back in Pattaya.  I found Grindr and Jack'd very unresponsive in Bangkok as compared to Pattaya. And of course Gayromeo is much easier in Pattaya also.  I still love Bangkok but it only took me until 30 minutes after my arrival to have this Tiger in my bedroom.

 

Of course also glad to get away from 330 baht diet cokes.  Ridiculous!!!

When you get around to bottling that cute smile, I'll take a dozen!!! Very cute guy

[vinapu]

.

 

It is clear to me that I don't pay for the drink, but for being allowed to enter the bar.

 

An interesting question: does one group of customers (those who only come to watch or those who come to off) subsidize the other group? What is the ratio of these two groups in different bars, Asian and Farang customers, tourists and expats?

You are right, drink is just our admission ticket.

 

Before one would gather meaningful statistic sample ' in situ '  to answer your question his budget would be busted and liver ruined / in your case kidneys as I gather you do not drink alcohol /.

 

When I watch now  cold rain outside I 'm sure I'd gladly pay those inflated prices we are discussing here  just to be there. 

 

And really we can always vote with our feet like we do, you are good hunting non-moneyboys and have stable source of cheap company at Saranrom, firecat returned to Pattaya nad immediately found smiling tiger and  I should shut up completely as I like massage over bar boys  / last trip 7 out of 9 /.

 

Thus attendance in bars is owners problem , sometimes one client leaving upset over something is just creating empty chair for next one entering door  at the moment

[vinapu]

So glad to be back in Pattaya.  I found Grindr and Jack'd very unresponsive in Bangkok as compared to Pattaya. And of course Gayromeo is much easier in Pattaya also.  I still love Bangkok but it only took me until 30 minutes after my arrival to have this Tiger in my bedroom.

 

Of course also glad to get away from 330 baht diet cokes.  Ridiculous!!!

Welcome back to civilization !

 

Clearly buy likes you or situation he found himself in or both ,  congratulation on finding rare specie of smiling tiger.

[kokopelli]

Regarding the clubs in Montreal, at one time a great experience and cheap but not the same same now; just a shade of their formal glory. That can  also be said of the go-gos in Thailand

[firecat69]

With regards to twinks I agree.  If you like the Stock type then still very good and depending on the day can still find some cute twinks at Campus and Taboo.  If you just like to look and talk then Montreal is still 1/2 the price of the crooks on Soi Twilight.

 

And certainly agree with Thailand.

[ChristianPFC]

So glad to be back in Pattaya.  I found Grindr and Jack'd very unresponsive in Bangkok as compared to Pattaya. And of course Gayromeo is much easier in Pattaya also.  I still love Bangkok but it only took me until 30 minutes after my arrival to have this Tiger in my bedroom.

 

Congratulations! My experiences with gayromeo this year can best be described as disastrous. But you have to take into account that I'm not looking for moneyboys.

 

Last week I met a boy, it took just 1h10min from initial contact until we were in his room, which might be all-time fastest hook-up on gayromeo. I took a taxi to his place (40 min due too rain and traffic jam), he hinted that he needs money during our chat on gayromeo, so I gave him 500 Baht when I left. Pictures were photoshopped, in real life he was "would have sex with for free". Sex was so-so, for 500 Baht I rather go to Saranrom and take a boy I really want. But at least he had a sexual interest in me, even if sex was interrupted by him asking me if he could use the mobile Wifi hotspot of my mobile phone to access internet (or whatever) on his phone. First I pretended not to understand (all conversation was in Thai), then I switched on WiFi hotspot on my phone and he did something with his phone. What goes on in that brain, to ask during sex if he can use WiFi hotspot? And this is an encounter that I call "promising"!

 

I asked, he said there are plenty of gay students at his university. I have heard this from other boys (for other universities) as well. I just don't know how to access this pool which fits my prey scheme (right age range, some higher education). Interestingly, he studies tourism, but does not speak English (or insufficient for even a simple conversation). I should have asked about other foreign languages.

 

In order not to sound too harsh: most boys I met on gayromeo were decent people who I would recommend to friends, it just didn't work out between us.

 

Addendum: far too often I go to boy's places (but only after checking if their room is free). According to Euclidean Geometry, his place is exactly as far from my place as my place from his place. I am going to pay for taxi fare anyway, so if he is too lazy to come to my place, why should I go to his place?

 

Sorry for derailing this thread, I had these things on my mind and took this occasion to write them down.

[TotallyOz]

Regarding the clubs in Montreal, at one time a great experience and cheap but not the same same now; just a shade of their formal glory. That can  also be said of the go-gos in Thailand

This is the same the world over. It happened in Amsterdam, New York, Prague, Montreal and other places.

 

The fact is the Internet is making it easier for the guys to find customers and not have to go into work. If you read Firecat's adventures carefully, you will see he rarely goes to any of the bars.

 

I went to the bars last week and I think that was only my 3rd time on a 4 month visit. There are just easier ways to find boys.

 

That said, if you are in Brazil, it is the opposite, the saunas are still where the boys are found! The eye candy is there galore!

 

I still love Thailand or I would not be here as much as I am but it is not for the gogo scene and that was the first thing that brought me here.

[Guest]

This is the same the world over. It happened in Amsterdam, New York, Prague, Montreal and other places.

The fact is the Internet is making it easier for the guys to find customers and not have to go into work. If you read Firecat's adventures carefully, you will see he rarely goes to any of the bars.

I went to the bars last week and I think that was only my 3rd time on a 4 month visit. There are just easier ways to find boys.

 

Club Temple (Pinnochio) in Prague is still OK, however the rent boy bars in Berlin have become a waste of time in the last 3 years.

 

As for Thailand, well I am very happy to patronise the gogo bars every night on my holidays. That holiday might comprise ~18 days in Thailand and a 10 day visit to one of the neighbouring countries.  

I still think the Thai gogo bar experience is great and ultimately in the gogo bars, what you see is what you get. With the internet, the guy who turns up might not be quite as you expect.

[firecat69]

The only caveat to all this discussion of GoGo Bars is that for someone who has never visited Thailand, they will still have the same excitement that we did when we first visited.

 

The ability to walk into a bar and find 40 boys onstage in underwear and be able to say I'd like #23 to come home with me is still an exciting attraction for many. It even remains a strong attraction for some multi-time visitors who enjoy the Bar scene.

 

Just because I have become somewhat jaded to the bar scene , I would not want that to discourage the first time visitor .

 

You will feel the same excitement we all did and the need to constantly return to Thailand and even possibly retire here.

 

Maybe you will continue to enjoy the Bar scene or maybe you will use it with GayRomeo etc but the one thing I am sure of is that I have never known anyone who viisted Thailand that was not planning their next trip before their first trip ended.

[firecat69]

Time to get this thread back on my adventures with Boys.  So last night I repeated with the last boy I reviewed in the GayRomeo Forum.

 

This is the 5th time I have seen him. He is consistently on time and always fun in the sack.  He is the photo in the green shirt..  He is better looking then his photos on Gayromeo and this is one of the better face shots I have seen of him. Funny how some boys do not transfer their good looks to photos.

 

Now I woke early this morning and felt the need. ( Guess why?).  No where else in the world is it so easy. Went on jack'd and found a cute boy within 15 minutes and he arrived 30 minutes later.  This is at 530 in the morning. Amazing Thailand!!

 

The other two photos are of him. Turns out he works at Toyboys and he was just what i needed to start the day. Who needs Coffee?

[vinapu]

Regarding the clubs in Montreal, at one time a great experience and cheap but not the same same now; just a shade of their formal glory. That can  also be said of the go-gos in Thailand

I wonder if this is decline of bars / clubs/ venues in LOS  or our optic changed over years with age and number of visits somehow extinguishing novelty value.

 

For my personal use I see improvement - noticed I like my boys better now than before.

Always butterflied and never thought about returning to hire the same guys next trip / with one exception of cutie from Aqua few years ago /, now when I return I will be looking for at least 3 from my last trip.

Honestly I don't know, am I  less demanding / really never was /, more sentimental , quality of boys improved or it was just luck last time but fact is I'm happy to proclaim dissenting opinion :   I like it better now