Where do you find sex?

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Where do you find sex?

James Barnes reflects on why some bars are not doing so well and others are enjoying brisk trade...

 

The internet is a modern miracle that has transformed the way we live our lives. Shopping for clothes, planning our holidays and even booking cinema tickets are quick and easy, online. A wealth of research is but a swift Google away, social networking sites connect millions of ‘friends’ and, although I cannot fathom how, according to the news networks, Facebook and the like are now pivotal in the revolution tagged, the Arab Spring. Of course, the web has always been a font of pornography but now, it is being used increasingly to arrange real sexual encounters.

Gay Romeo, Gaydar, Camfrog and Gay.com are the most popular ‘hook up’ sites here in Thailand and certain bar owners have suggested that they are negatively affecting business. No off fees, no need to pay for booze, no need even to venture out. The convenience of arranging trysts from the comfort of a hotel room and the prospect of saving a few baht, threaten their businesses, they say. This is mostly a myth.

 

Travellers are certainly used to digitally organising their sex lives back home but back home they don’t have go-go bars. The novelty of being away on holiday and going out to tour the bars, have a drink or three and selecting a cute guy from a stage will always beat the lonely pursuit of thrills on the net. There are so many disadvantages, online. Your would-be amour needs to be trusted. Is the age on his online profile truthful? Is that moist young man displayed, showing a recent picture or was it taken when he was young and lovely, twenty-five years ago? Is it even him? Reports of online beauty who knock on the door as beasts abound.

 

But, more importantly (even more important than beauty!), security is a real worry. If a guy is taken from a bar and causes a problem, at least the customer can go back there and have some recourse. Internet connections have no security and there is no comeback if you find yourself hosting a thief- or worse. Violence has resulted from internet hook ups. The service provider may have no more than a hotmail address to identify the perpetrator and will certainly disclaim all responsibility.

 

While the bars suffer a downturn, the massage spas report an increase in business. How can this be if the problem is online dating? Those bars with fewer customers have to look to themselves for the answer to their woes. Are the drinks prices a rip off? Is the music being played too loud and there to entertain the staff or the customers? Are the ‘shows’ old hat, boring and lacklustre? Could the place do with a facelift and are the lavatories clean? There are plenty of bars that are getting it right and they are the ones who enjoy a brisk trade.

 

[Guest fountainhall]

I must admit, James, I find your article and its conclusions overly simplistic, and I suggest this is borne out by comments made in recent months on this Forum and the several other gay Boards that operate in and about Thailand. I also find its logic rather backtracks on itself. You start by stressing the advantages of boys in bars against internet trysts; yet you end by highlighting all the negative issues about bars that are also constantly moaned about in the various Forums!

Admittedly, I should stress two points. Firstly, it’s hard to condense the main points of a ‘for’ and ‘against’ argument into a shortish article. I still, think, though, that your basic premise is wrong! Secondly, I base that on my own experiences as one who has lived in Asia for decades and in Bangkok for more than a decade. My conclusions will almost certainly not mirror those of first– or second–time visitors

Personally I doubt that internet hook-ups “threatening” go-go gar businesses is indeed a “myth”. They may not threaten, but they must certainly be causing owners some problems. Each internet hook-up can and does save a great deal of cash. Provided the individual takes some basic precautions, security is not really a major issue. Yes, violence or theft is always a possibility – and it has happened, but from what I have read, rarely. Plus there are ways to minimise those risks, especially with visitors who will generally stay in hotels or guesthouses where ID cards can be lodged at reception. Even residents can insist that a guest’s details are registered with the condo security desk.

Sure, internet hook-ups can certainly end up being more of a hassle for the reasons you outline – and others, like most Thais’ perception of time! Plus it seems difficult here to arrange trysts more than 2 or 3 days in advance. But for those who get into the swing of it, meeting via the internet can have a lot of advantages.

And yes, I also agree that the experience of going out to a bar where there is a range of cute guys in skimpy briefs up there on stage can be hugely appealing. But only at the end of your article do you list a few things which in my view really are threatening the bars’ businesses – the rip-off drinks prices, the ever-increasing off-fees, the boring shows, the often excruciatingly loud amplification (a point I mentioned in a thread just the other day in a bar where I have never experienced that before) and the hovering, oppressive mamasans.

I believe there is a place for both the bars and the internet. In my younger days, absolutely nothing would have replaced the fun of going to the bars on Silom Soi 4 and Suriwong’s Soi Twilight. Aye, but there surely is the rub! That little word “fun”. For I am convinced that the major key to the success of any bar is “fun”, and there has been precious little of that around, especially in Bangkok in recent years. The bars carry on with the same old, boring formulas. They are partly able to do so, I believe, only because of the relatively recent influx of other Asians rather than the westerners who made up their core audience for decades.

But if they don’t do something soon, especially with backhanders to the BIB rising to astronomical levels, they will be hard pressed to survive in their existing format.

FInally, one question? Which are the “plenty of bars” in Bangkok are getting it right? I’d be hard pressed to name more than 2 or 3, if that!

[Rogie]

The article in OUT is headed Where do you find sex?

 

There are certainly plenty of places in Thailand!

 

I haven't been to a 'go-go bar' for a long time with the sole intention of offing a boy. I've stopped going to the bars these days but in the days when I did frequent them I preferred places such as the Telephone or Balcony bars or Dick's Cafe in Bangkok or one of the many host bars in Pattaya's Sunee Plaza. The bars in Sunee in particular were ideal for my purposes. My preference was to visit the same bar on several occasions and get to know the boys working there. Some of them are freelancers dropping in from time to time and some are on the staff so are there every night. In the early days, on visits to Thailand when I first 'discovered' the go-go bars, whenever I went out for the evening I was indeed determined to off somebody and would get frustrated if it didn't work out - but later on when the novelty had worn off I became rather laid back about sexual encounters so I wasn't really bothered whether I offed somebody or not.

 

The above is written as a visitor to Thailand. If I lived there and I wanted to meet young men I would try and meet them in uncommercial settings. That would be difficult as I don't speak any Thai but where there's a will there's a way. Here is what I wrote in the My requirements for a boyfriend thread and were directed primarily at Christian.

 

The obvious question to ask is how do you get more than just a passing eyeful - wandering in the park, on the skytrain or metro, in the shopping mall or wherever . . . ? Do you try and make eye contact (and I certainly don't mean 'staring')?

 

Following up with a simple smile may reap rewards. I am shy and find doing that difficult. I can happily smile at anyone I pass on the street, but if it's a person I am attracted to then I feel awkward and may avert my gaze rather than risk the disappointment of an unrequited smile! If you succeed in being able to start a conversation, especially as your language skills sound good to me, and provided you can stay relaxed and friendly, that could lead onto a something more, and a chance over a coffee or if you can get his phone number over a later chat on the phone to find out more about him.

 

If you can make some genuine Thai friends Christian, it doesn't necessarily matter if they aren't gay. Everybody has friends and your new friend may well have many his own age some of whom may be gay. If you can build a 'family' of Thai friends word will soon get out about you . . .  your many varied interests, including the type of person you are looking for. This will take time, plenty of time, . . . In the meantime, you can just go on as you have been doing, offing the occasional boy or using gay Romeo or whatever works for you when you're feeling horny.
 

[vinapu]

1. fountainhall you are right, perspective of expats and repeat, multiple time visitors is different for those who are coming for first od second time. First group finds go-go  bars boring, formula outdated and annoying mamasans not worth dealing with. And this will not change as  novelty value for old timers  is long gone. They  are either not that interested in anymore or knowing their way around the problems with bars.

IMHO if go-go are to survive onslaught of internet hook-ups and increasing competition from massage places they need to deliver   whatever  newcomers are coming for- stable of attractive young men on the stage , Newcomers did  not discover yet that shows are boring -this comes with multiple visits.

While internet is formidable threat to bar's business they will survive as  there  are plenty of people who prefer direct interaction with  other warm bodies on the offer right away and  are looking for time off  not only from  work ,suits,  home etc on their vacations but also from their computer screens. And there always will be attractive boys fresh from the bus who   do not have means and  knowledge  to organize their offer on internet sites 

[Guest buckbee]

I have found everyday Thai guys on the street are best. Get talking to them, if you click, ask them over for a drink and things go from there. 

[vinapu]

I have found everyday Thai guys on the street are best. Get talking to them, if you click, ask them over for a drink and things go from there. 

As ChristianPFC's adventure few weeks ago with drivers  from Hualampong  described on this forum  attests to

[Guest buckbee]

My 2 best friends in Thailand are both married but I've had sex with them on many occasions over the last 12 years. It just happened and went from there. I met one at work and the other I met on the street and we became good friends. From what I've experienced, Thai guys don't seem to mind a bit of gay sex from time to time and actually find it natural as long as you don't talk about it.

[Rogie]

 

From what I've experienced, Thai guys don't seem to mind a bit of gay sex from time to time and actually find it natural as long as you don't talk about it.

Yes, not broadcasting it seems to work best in a non-commercial setting. In the first instance (that is to say when you first meet), perhaps boldly announcing your gay sexuality will deter men such as the two friends Buckbee refers to. Making friends first and foremost and allowing the possibility of sex to develop, as Buckbee says, as a natural course of events.

[vinapu]

I think in any setting  - commercial/ non commercial, straight / gay etc. Thais prefer just to do it instead of talking about it  , you rarely see any display of affection in public even among young people, at least this are my observations.

 

Even fact that those dens of sin  - Patpong, Nana and Cowboy , prominent yet somehow hidden from main street perspective is telling.

 

As for  Rogie's comment above  about "making friends and allowing possibility ..." even with commercial sworn king/top boys on few occasions when long time offed   I noticed that while early during convention there's no  way even  of toughing their lower behinds without some growling, if everything goes right and you seem to built some rapport with guy  in the morning resistance  is disappearing / to toughing , not actual act - for this more time and likely more money is necessary /

[Guest buckbee]

 

 

as a natural course of events. 

It took a while to happen but when it did, we were like rabbits lol. Both of the guys I lived with. One for 4 years and the other for 3 years, that was before they got married

[ChristianPFC]

Yes, not broadcasting it seems to work best in a non-commercial setting. In the first instance (that is to say when you first meet), perhaps boldly announcing your gay sexuality will deter men such as the two friends Buckbee refers to. Making friends first and foremost and allowing the possibility of sex to develop, as Buckbee says, as a natural course of events.

 

Absolutely! I found it detrimental to announce (when being asked) that I am gay. Fortunately, the Thai word faen can be used for both genders (girlfriend/boyfriend), so I can say I have no faen.

 

I am just* making friends with a gorgeous Cambodian boy who sells food near Central Ladprao. Of course I have sex in mind, but I will avoid addressing the issue as long as possible. And it takes a lot of time. For 30 minutes chat after he finished work, I had to wait one hour, spend one hour and a half commuting to and back, and couldn't do anything else that night. I will have to invest more nights, and place and time is not very convenient for me.

 

Now I wonder why he would want to become friends with me, and how to detect early on if more is possible.

 

*Actually it started three months ago, but now I try to take it further, from the street into my room.

 

It took a while to happen but when it did, we were like rabbits lol. Both of the guys I lived with. One for 4 years and the other for 3 years, that was before they got married

 

How often did you meet and where and how did you lead it into your room and separate the guy you were interested in from his friends?

[vinapu]

 

I am just* making friends with a gorgeous Cambodian boy who sells food near Central Ladprao. Of course I have sex in mind, but I will avoid addressing the issue as long as possible. And it takes a lot of time. For 30 minutes chat after he finished work, I had to wait one hour, spend one hour and a half commuting to and back, and couldn't do anything else that night. I will have to invest more nights, and place and time is not very convenient for me.

 

Now I wonder why he would want to become friends with me, and how to detect early on if more is possible.

 

*Actually it started three months ago, but now I try to take it further, from the street into my room.

 

 

Hey Christian, good for you !

I read your narrative as  very promising . Why you wonder ? May be he  likes you. Just follow your own advice and invest more time . By going to see him you are not upsetting yourself  with him being late. Good luck and remember , often travel is as good as destination.  

[ChristianPFC]

By going to see him you are not upsetting yourself  with him being late.

 

Not exactly. I called before I went to see him, he said he would finish work at 10 pm and I arrived at 10 pm. It took until 11 pm until he was free. But I understand that it's not in his power and opening times depend on number of customers and when his boss says they will close. I gathered that from previous observations and was prepared to wait.

[vinapu]

Not exactly. I called before I went to see him, he said he would finish work at 10 pm and I arrived at 10 pm. It took until 11 pm until he was free. But I understand that it's not in his power and opening times depend on number of customers and when his boss says they will close. I gathered that from previous observations and was prepared to wait.

Look at bright side-if you there waiting for him at least you have some control over situation knowing he is around and he can see that you are interested because of wait.

[Guest buckbee]

How often did you meet and where and how did you lead it into your room and separate the guy you were interested in from his friends?

 

Initially we just met when I saw him which wasnt that often originally but then we started meeting up after work or on weekends. Then we lived together. I've been to his parents home up country (Isarn 500 km from BKK) many many times over the years but as friends. Everyone in the village knows that we were more than just friends but it was never discussed or asked which is fine as it keeps the harmony. In regards to his friends, we would all hang out together having a few drinks or go on a day trip somewhere

 

 

Having a few drinks together

[Guest erected]

I find it demeaning for these skinny "boys" age20 something (looking as if they are 14 years old) standing on stage in their skimpy white undies looking bored while farangs near or at retirement age gazing at them as if the stage is a zoo. I know, not all the young men have nothing else to do, but I find it sad.  I do not like the skinny or fem or young type so I prefer to connect on a gay social network. These guys are in my age bracket (27yr-40yr), masculine (not all) and many do have jobs. Yes, some are "massage boys". Once I find a great playmate, I stay with him for awhile. He knows what I like and I know what he likes

[Up2u]

Out in Curiosity, erected, why did you resurrect this topic of 2013 for your very first post?

[kokopelli]

up2u, nailed it on the head. 

[vinapu]

I find it demeaning for these skinny "boys" age20 something (looking as if they are 14 years old) standing on stage in their skimpy white undies looking bored while farangs near or at retirement age gazing at them as if the stage is a zoo. I know, not all the young men have nothing else to do, but I find it sad.  I do not like the skinny or fem or young type so I prefer to connect on a gay social network. These guys are in my age bracket (27yr-40yr), masculine (not all) and many do have jobs. Yes, some are "massage boys". Once I find a great playmate, I stay with him for awhile. He knows what I like and I know what he likes

what about boys of say, Tawan,Jupiter, BoyzBoyZBoyZ or ABomb,  over 30 and looking it , still looking bored while etc.... but certainly knowing what they are up to due to years of experience on stage. And they are your / and mine / type and age bracket we both like

 

Do you find it demeaning on their behalf ?

 

If you find such a scene sad why you are tormenting yourself partaking in it?

 

Nothing wrong with connecting on social network and basically we all are in one of two camps, those who prefer social sites on internet and those who like to see what they hire in flesh.

 

Both approaches have advantages and adherents the same way coffee and tea have and one can't say one is better than another , it's just matter of preference, just as you said.

 

Gem can be found anywhere and by any means, one of my best boys was simply assigned to me as masseur by the mamasan without even asking me , another one was in pains in the bar  to avoid my eye as long as he could but finally gave up , smiled and we had 5 long time offs and one short  in  3 weeks, quite unusual for me , the former butterfly.

 

Quite a few of those 'massage boys' are actually very good at giving proper  massage , believe you me I mean it literally . One of best I had was by go-go, one of 6 offs above, not even a massage boy. 

[Guest]

Personally, I don't see why any one would have a problem with the standing on the stage in white undies part   It all starts going wrong when they come off the stage and get close to the customers.

 

The white undies are similar to what we happily wear on the beach.   OK, my current beachwear is a tad more modest, however that's mainly for the benefit of other beach users, rather than my own self consciousness.

[khaolakguy]

I find sex by selecting a commercial sex venue from the many publicised in Out in Thailand. Of course the photos are often out of date, and sometimes the addresses are inaccurate, but it usually works out in the end.

[Guest LoveThailand]

1. Online - once you go on GR, hornet or such - guys in great number will start chatting you up. Majority - money boys, some looking for firends and more without expecting monetary reward. Pro: you can preselct who you are going to meet by talking to them/seeing their pictures only. Con's: in persone they often can be a surprise (both ways); arranging a meeting often takes some effort and they may be a no show/late. Personal experience: met a few hot sex dates both with money involved and no money paid (though paid for food, cinema and whatever expences were necessary; but was given some inexpensive nonetheless nice presents in return
2. Go-go bars: more expensive usually because of off fee and drinks cost. On the pro' side: you actually meet the person you plan to have sex with before you decide. Some gut feeling required - had experience of mediocre encounters with go-go boys who looked very attractive and amazing time with some who I chose without much enthusiam.
3. Massage parlors - pro as above - you get to choose your masseur (I do not go to places where they do not allow you to choose the masseur). For me also less of a risk of a flop - I love massage and even without great sex I feel content after a session.
4. Bars, discos etc - lots of fun anyway. Hooked up with money boys and non-professionals. For some reason percentatge of very good sex higher than with other options.
5. Street trade (?) - sometimes after a night of bar hopping and such - maybe because of too much choice - the closing hour strikes and you find yourself alone. Easy to compensate - walk around gay areas and 99% chance you'd be chatted up. Up to you to accept and follow through.

In my experience one does not need to look for sex - sex is looking for you if you keep your eyes open and know what you want.