Guest fountainhall Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 “Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is your Senior Flight Attendant here. I hope you’re having a good flight. “Oh, and guess what? This plane is soooo easy to fly. Want to know why? Coz I am flying it? Yes, me and my dolly bird Assistant Attendant are at the controls whilst the captain and copilot are catching up on some sleep in business class. “But you must not worry. We actually got a full 20 minutes of instruction beforehand. “The autopilot is on and it’s just so . . .Oops! What happened there? Seems I flicked a switch with my elbow and I’m not quite as in control as I thought!” Fantasy? Sadly, not at all. The narrative may vary a bit, but on an early morning A320 flight from Bangkok to Delhi three weeks ago, this is indeed what happened. Air India has naturally denied that safety had ever been compromised, but it acknowledges that two attendants spent more than the permitted time in the cockpit. QUOTE "It is categorically stated that at no point of time the cockpit was left unattended by the cockpit crew. During the incident, due to distraction the co-pilot had touched the auto pilot disconnect button momentarily. But the same was connected back," the statement said. UNQUOTE However, a senior member of the cabin crew witnessed and reported the entire incident. The pilot and 2 stewardesses have now been suspended. No word of the fate of the co-pilot. What everyone in that crew seems to have forgotten is that an Aeroflot A310 en route from Moscow to Hong Kong in 1994 crashed with the loss of all lives in rather similar fashion. In that case, the pilot had put his 16-year old son and 12-year old daughter at the controls with the autopilot on. The son applied too much pressure on the control column causing the computer to switch the ailerons back to manual control. The plane then went into a 45º bank – steeper than its design parameters. The G forces meant the pilots could not get access to the controls. The plane crashed and all aboard were killed. All involved in the Air India shenanigans should immediately be fired in my view. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/air-india-suspends-pilot-two-air-hostesses-for-overstaying-incident-in-cockpit/1111067/ Quote
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 All involved in the Air India shenanigans should immediately be fired in my view. Fired? They should be fired, banned from flying for life and should be jailed for at least a couple of years (assuming they are found guilty of this offence in court). Airline pilots are undertaking a responsible and well paid job. If they behave in a highly irresponsible way than endangers the lives of the passengers, they should be severely punished. Quote
NIrishGuy Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Whilst the above may be correct and we'd all like that level of action to be taken I'm sure if we actually knew the number of times this sort of thing happens on many airlines ( without the autopilot switching off perhaps) we'd be horrified and I'm quite sure many in the airline business would see this as unfortunate that it was reported rather than something very rare and as something to be disciplined over but just more a case of them being "unlucky" to be found out - scarily for the rest of us poor unsuspecting passengers perhaps - but what is it they say "ignorance is bliss" - and just one of the reasons I keep my seat belt fastened at all times "just in case" ! Quote
fedssocr Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I wonder how much of this story is true though. As I said in other forum, whoever was in charge would have been required to be in contact with air traffic control. It's not likely the flight attendants would have known how to do that correctly. Could be that the person who reported this "incident" is lying or has some grudge or score to settle. Quote
a447a Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I wonder how much of this story is true though. Probably very little. the captain and copilot are catching up on some sleep in business class. Just too difficult to believe.There is a system in the cockpit (Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System) which monitors pilots' reactions. If, for example, switches which should be used are not used, a series of warnings appear on Eicas, followed by audible warnings. If both pilots were sleeping, the alarms would have gone beserk. Quote
Guest Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 If this story were untrue, I expect Air India would have their legal people onto the Daily Mail very quickly. Reputations count. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Certainly something seems to have happened that was way out of the ordnary. I agree with z909 that any pilot responsible for the safety of his passengers and crew who permits both himself and his co-pilot to be out of the cabin at any time (except in the case of some extreme emergency) and/or puts any non-pilot into one of the pilots' seats risks putting his plane into some form of grave danger. I am sure it is not permitted by any airline, and pilots guilty of such behaviour should be summarily fired and their licences suspended for a number of years. The Times of India is reporting that the regulator is considering making cameras in cockpits compulsory. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-06/india/39063681_1_air-india-pilots-cvr-cockpit Quote
a447a Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I said the story was pretty unbelievable. But then again, there's the story about the Russian pilot who let his son fly the plane - into the ground. So I guess nothing is impossible. It just seems hard to believe that the cabin attendants could sit in a cockpit with alarms going off left, right and centre and do nothing about it. And I would have imagined that the cabin crew themselves would think it unusual for both pilots to take a nap. Quote
Guest Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I keep hearing stories of incredibly slack operating practices at Indian companies. Therefore, this story doesn't surprise me. Quote
fedssocr Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 According to a poster over on Flyertalk.com the truth seems to be that the FO left the cockpit to use the lavatory and one of the cabin crew sat in his seat at that time. Somehow another flight attendant entered the cockpit and the captain let her sit in his seat. The captain never left the cockpit. When the FO returned the person in his seat got up and may have disengaged the autopilot. Apparently it may have been the FO who reported the incident to the company. That is a lot more believable to me. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 I'm sure there's a lot that we don't yet know, but even putting a flight attendant into a pilot's seat has to be a total breach of regulations and reason for instant dismissal. Even on automatic pilot, who knows what she might inadvertently done that was worse than disengaging the autopilot. The pilot has the safety of the passengers, crew and a hugely expensive piece of equipment under his charge - to say nothing of those on the ground who might be killed/injured by a crashing jet. Quote
NIrishGuy Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 I'm just surmising but I had always thought it was standard practice and actually a rule that if one of the pilots got up to leave the cockpit for some / any reason that they HAD to ask a steward to come in to the cockpit and take their place whilst covering their absence just in case the other pilot had a heart attack or something equally dramatic whilst at the wheel - or am I mistaken about that ? Quote
a447a Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 The flight attendant goes through a certain procedure to enter the cockpit, locks the door and waits for the pilot to return.. He/she then re-opens the door for the pilot; it's a bit of a complicated procedure. The remaining pilot must also put on an oxygen mask until the other pilot returns if flying above a certain flight level. There can surely be no other industry as strictly regulated as commercial airlines. So don't worry, Nirish! It's all good! Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I had always thought it was standard practice and actually a rule that if one of the pilots got up to leave the cockpit for some / any reason that they HAD to ask a steward to come in to the cockpit and take their place whilst covering their absence just in case the other pilot had a heart attack or something equally dramatic whilst at the wheel I believe the regulations state that there must only be a second person in the cockpit - not seated at the controls which he/she couldn't operate anyway. Quote
