Why Is Sex So Often Equated with Cash?

[Guest fountainhall]

The thread “What Would you Do If . . . ?" has garnered a lot of readers and a lot of replies. I thought it might therefore be worth taking one of the issues raised in that thread for further discussion.

Over recent years, I have been quite surprised at the number of posters on various sites who write making Delphic-like statements that ALL those advertising on social networking sites like gayromeo must automatically be moneyboys or are looking for money – no argument, no discussion. Their view seems to be that if these guys don’t make their living in the sex industry, they will need money for their daily living costs – or, as sometimes, stated, to send money home for mama or the new buffalo. If it’s not these reasons, then they are looking for a relationship so that a wealthier farang can support them and give them some of the finer things in life.

I believe such patronizing statements are largely bullshit! Yes, there is no doubt that some of the guys are looking for some sort of cash return. And some farang are perfectly happy to pay - for a variety of reasons. I have nothing against either. Indeed, I am delighted that this market 'works'. Equally, from what I have been reading elsewhere, boys who use gayromeo in Pattaya are far more likely to be seeking cash than those in Bangkok and other parts of the country. And, of course, many posters living in or visiting Pattaya pooh-pooh the idea that any boys elsewhere can possibly be looking for uncomplicated cash-free casual sex with an older farang, or an occasional fuck-buddy, or – horror of horrors – a long-term relationship where cash is not the primary or even secondary motive.

The fact is, though, that these can and do happen with gayromeo boys, as it can do when you meet someone in a disco, a coffee shop, a party - anywhere. I’ll not repeat the non-money relationships that friends of mine have enjoyed for many years, other than to say that not one of the relationships is with a boy who ever worked in the sex industry – not one! So the canard that money comes into every gayromeo equation is one almighty dead ‘duck’.

Well then, the oracles trumpet, the relationship cannot last, because what young man in his right mind would wish to spend  his younger, more eligible years with a “wrinkly, fat” farang who may have one foot near the grave. This very description was used only just recently on another Board, thereby tarnishing not only all Thais but equally all farang with the same brush –

 

is it just me or do some of you
also understand that boys of 20 -25 or so go with 60 year olds for what?? Oh
yes, thier magnificent looks, bodies and minds . . he wants to take on a
60 year old wrinkley ass because it is so sexy! Come on

 

Well, to the man who wrote that little piece of trash, I’ll ask this: where have you spent your time in Thailand? Where have you lived when you state so categorically that you totally eliminate the suggestion that young guys might, perhaps just might, sometimes look for relationships with older men to fill some sort of vacuum in their own lives – perhaps the lack of a father-figure? Or as one guy in Khon Kaen recently told me, he likes the fact that he can learn so much more from an older, wiser guy which is why he prefers older men. Oh dear! That is now going to be pounced on by all the naysayers. It happens, though, to be the truth. And the poster I referred to? Well, of course he has lived for years in – need I say it? – Pattaya.

The real point, though, is not just to bash to bashers. It is to highlight what other more sensible posters have recently stated on another Board – there are all types, and it is silly, stupid and pointless not to recognize that.

In closing, I’ll go back to the point I made earlier about other social networking sites. It is a FACT that in Asia there are some young guys who do want to be exclusively with older guys – and not for money reasons. You only have to look at the listings on sites like gaydar, fridae and other more regional sites for that to stare you in the face. If I post that I will be visiting Taipei and Tokyo next month, as I will be, I am approached by – note, not the other way around – quite a number of young guys who want to meet up. Not for cash! Not even sometimes for sex. More the opportunity to meet with an English-speaking foreigner, have coffee, dinner or whatever. For example, I happen to enjoy opera. One guy in Tokyo I will meet is passionately fond of and extremely knowledgeable about opera – at the age of 23. We have been chatting now for almost 4 weeks and I can’t wait to meet him. Does he seek cash? Has he asked for cash? Will he ask for cash? No! Will sex be involved? I believe so.

It takes all sorts to make up this gay world of ours. Those of us fortunate enough to have lived in Asia for a long time know that it is pointless to haul with us into this region the baggage of western attitudes to sex and relationships. There’s far more to life than speculating and generalizing about motives when it comes to sex and relationships. Commercial sex is there aplenty, if that is what you are seeking. Similarly, there is a great deal of non-commercial sex out there - but only if you are prepared to open your eyes.

[kokopelli]

To quote scripture;

 

"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. Matthew 7.7

 

I suppose that we find what we are looking for. As for me, all my contacts have been pay for play and I personally do not know anyone who has has not paid in some way or the other for "love". And I use the word love to mean any form of sexual contact or even a casual date. Guess that says something about me and my circle of friends! I suppose I just have not been knocking on the right doors?

[Guest scottishguy]

I may well be a cynic, but my honest view is that when you're the older partner you're 99% likely to be going to pay one way or another.

 

However, it does not have to involve hard cash being handed over.

[kokopelli]

Just as a clarification to my above post, I am not looking for any of the types of interactions mentioned by FH. One Thai bf is enough for me, physically, emotionally and financially. Although I have checked out GayRomeo my experiences were a disaster.

[khaolakguy]

If you think of yourself as a wrinkly old and unattractive person, then that's how others will see you too! If your imagination limits your partners to guys selling themselves, then that's where you will end up, nothing wrong with it. However you really have to be wearing blinkers to not see that there are guys and relationships as the OP has described.

 

I had one Thai friend who wasn't interested unless the farang was over 60, and he was not looking for a relationship either, just hookups, and neither needed nor wanted any financial support.

[Guest Devint6669]

Like i saw in some post in the past, It's all about how you present your self.

[Guest scottishguy]

Khaolokguy, please do not limit those who gain out of a relationship to those who brazenly "sell themselves" as you put it - and I was not referring to the OP's liasion with his opera-loving 23yr old, I was making a general comment

 

The point I was clearly making in my response was that there are more ways of "paying for it" than coin of the realm changing hands...it could be dinners and drinks, personal gifts, paying rent or school, trips here and there, general living support.......

 

Whilst I'm quite prepared to accept that there are relationships between younger and older guys where money (in one way or another) is not involved - from my experience and numerous observations these are very much the exception rather than the rule. I have even heard of situations (never encountered one)  where the younger party may be financially supporting the older but I would suggest that these cases are so rare as to be insignificant.  

 

I also happen to believe that 18-25yo "boys" who are genuinely sexually attracted to 50/60/70yr olds are extremely rare (especially in the West). Once in a blue moon maybe, but let's not be naive, or perhaps deluded is a better word. Most of these younger partners are in it for gain of one kind or another.

 

In most old/young circumstances I have encountered it would be quite appropriate (though socially unacceptable) to paraphrase Mrs Merton and ask the younger party  "Tell me, what first attracted you to your extremely wealthy boyfriend?" 

 

Also, just to make it even more general  - how about the young wife who never works and lives off her older husband's income - clearly she is not a prostitute per se  - but hubby is "paying for it" all the same.  

 

In all of these matters I do not seek to take any sort of moral high ground - I am not in any position to criticise - and if the older party is happy to "support" his younger companion then why should anybody decry that? But let's at least acknowledge the reality of (what I believe to be) the vast majority of these situations!

[khaolakguy]

Scottishguy, I don't know what you are getting so defensive about and personal with me. My response was to the OP post, and didn't reference your comments at all.

 

Anyway it seems that we all agree that these desires and relationships do exist, to a greater or lesser extent. Statistically you are obviously less likely to encounter them if you surround yourselves with rent boys, than if you mix with people who don't need your or anyone else's money.

 

No judgments, just probabilities.

[Guest scottishguy]

I'm not being defensive and certainly not personal - I was just clarifying my previous post

[TotallyOz]

I am lucky I guess. I have been with the same guy for over 8 years and he loves me and adores me and money NEVER goes from my hand to his. He has never once asked me for anything financial and I made sure that he knows his family is his responsibility. I am one of the fortunate ones that fell for a money boy who didn't want anything in return other than my love and affection.

 

BTW: when I say money doesn't change hands, it doesn't. I detest that. He receives a weekly wire transfer. That means he we never have to discuss the money issue.

 

jk

 

Seriously, I have friends who are very wealthy and the wife has never once worked and has no desire to work. The hubby brings home the bacon. It was this way when I was younger. I even remember when I went to a university to be a minister (forgive me Brother TW) that there was a massive number of ladies that also went to that school to become a "Preacher's Wife." Yes, their desire was to be the wife of a minister. It is simply what they were told growing up was a good profession.

 

I also have many friends who are married and the wife is considered a "trophy" wife. She goes to all the social events and she works out hard every day at the gym to be the envy of others. Is there really any difference in that and and older/younger man to guy relationship?

[Bob]

He has never once asked me for anything financial and I made sure that he knows his family is his responsibility. I am one of the fortunate ones that fell for a money boy who didn't want anything in return other than my love and affection.

 

BTW: when I say money doesn't change hands, it doesn't. I detest that. He receives a weekly wire transfer. That means he we never have to discuss the money issue.

 

Pretty funny, Michael.

[Guest fountainhall]

I also happen to believe that 18-25yo "boys" who are genuinely sexually attracted to 50/60/70yr olds are extremely rare (especially in the West)

 

I can't speak for the West, but they really are not as rare in Asia as you might think. Only this week I met a gayromeo guy, a student who advertises that he is only looking for older men in their 50s - 70s. He has a genuine attraction - for whatever reason - to older men. And I can add that no form of remuneration, cash or otherwise, was involved. When we first met for coffee, he had - surprisingly for a Thai guy since most always seem to be late for appointments - been 30 minutes early and paid for his own. My only expense was the taxi back to my place. He would not even accept any money for a taxi back!

 

In Asia, many guys have a far less restricted view of age than in the west. I can recall being petrified about becoming 40. I had no worries at all at 30 and 50, but in my mind 40 was either the final nail in youth's coffin or the first spadeful of sand out of the grave. I was certain, as in the west, that any attraction I might offer to others would vanish.

 

Soon after, I was chatting to a Chinese friend about this. He just laughed. In Chinese thinking, he told me, a man who turns 40 is like a rose which has just emerged into full bloom! And sure enough, my 40s were amazing. Come to think of it, life's continued to be pretty amazing even after moving out of my 40s!

 

how about the young wife who never works and lives off her older husband's income - clearly she is not a prostitute per se  - but hubby is "paying for it" all the same

 

A perfectly fair point. If you broaden the base and try to balance the equation, then the sort of encounter I described above is rare. If you regard paying for taxis, dinners, movies or any transaction that does not involve cash profit actually going in to the hands of someone (or their bank account   ), then you could say that each party is paying for sexual and other favours from the other. Same as Michael has pointed out with trophy wives - and trophy toy boys!

 

But that's not quite what I was trying to say in the OP. Yes, the material benefits coming from a relationship with an older man can indeed be attractive to many young Thais, especially those from a very poor background. But unlike many who post on this subject, I believe there are those who do enter the relationship for genuine feelings of mutual respect and love. And the fact that such relationships continue is surely some degree of proof of that. If money was the motivating factor, surely after a few months or more of living with an older man, say one of very modest means, the younger Asian could easily jump ship and find a younger, wealthier partner? And so the cycle would continue until the young man himself was finding himself older and no longer attractive to suitors?

[kokopelli]

It is quite understandable if an older gentleman is charming, attractive, educated, cultured, affluent or, in other words, a bon vivant, that a younger man would be attracted to him. On the other hand if one is a troglodyte then compensation by cash can substitute for those virtues.

[Guest fountainhall]

Not only can it, I should think it would be somewhat essential!

 

Another point I failed to make earlier. I can completely understand that finding guys on the social networking sites who really are more interested in older westerners takes time. It is therefore a good bit easier for those who live here than for those who just visit for a few weeks a year. For visitors, more commercial sex is generally more convenient and wastes little time. As others have said, at least you see the guys before you off them.

[kokopelli]

I should append my comments above to say I do know younger gay Thais who are quite charming and seem to enjoy the company of older gentlemen, wrinkles and all. However as one puts it, because of economic conditions, he finds it necessary to "sell his ass" rather than giving it away. Although he does give me a 50% discount!

[Guest scottishguy]

Surely it can be only a matter of time till one of our esteemed members comes on to tell us how much his boy is paying him for sex.

 

[Guest joe552]

I would, scottish-guy, but a gentleman never tells!

[ChristianPFC]

Once I accepted the fact that most men are attracted to women, I have no problem to understand that there are young Asians who are attracted to old Farang, even if I don't share either of these attractions.

[kokopelli]

Oh no, say it ain't so Christian! I was looking for a date with you.

[Bob]

Surely it can be only a matter of time till one of our esteemed members comes on to tell us how much his boy is paying him for sex.

 

Hmmm, no and no (I ain't "esteemed" and my beloved pays me to stay away from him).