What Would You Do If . . . ?

[Guest fountainhall]

It will have happened before to others, but it’s the first time it happened to me. Some weeks ago I was in a bank near the centre of BKK. As I was leaving, I spotted a guy about to be served. He was with a young lady whom I assumed might be his sister or wife (she turned out to be a co-worker). He smiled at me. I smiled back. He was quite cute and my gaydar was working. I went to the ATM machine and noticed out of the side of my eye he was still looking at me. Within a few moments, he and his friend were leaving, walking past me. Again he looked back and smiled. So I went up and said hello. His English was not great, but I got the gist of his conversation. I then gave him my name and phone number. He gave me his name and said he’d call.

 

He did call later that afternoon. We arranged to meet for coffee the following evening. We chatted. Eventually he said he wanted to come back with me, I was satisfied that he was a nice guy and was looking forward to spending some time with him.

 

At home, I was a bit surprised that he had several drinks – beer and whisky. He was very nice but sex was perfunctory. Then it was time for him to go. He said he lived out near Rangsit. I ordered a taxi and said I would pay for it. He said no need. I think it’s quite unfair to expect anyone to pay his own way home. So I offered him Bt. 250 (about right if the taxi was not taking the expressway). He said no, but this time adding not enough. Fair enough. So I added another Bt. 200.

 

He then looked quite shocked and said the taxi would cost about Bt. 2,000. I have friends living out near Rangsit and know exactly what I have to pay to get there. Bt. 2,000 was patently absurd and I was beginning to realise that I had probably met up with either a money boy or someone wanting cash from a farang, even though he had given absolutely no indication prior to that moment that money would be any part of the evening.

 

I refused to give him any more. I trotted out the standard line that if money was to be involved he should have told me beforehand, in which case I would have said goodbye after our coffee. By this time, the security guard had called up to say the taxi was waiting. But this guy refused to move from his seat. He was not aggressive, but clearly waiting for more cash. I still refused, then took him gently by the shoulders and moved him to the door.

 

After putting on his shoes, he then would move no further. He wanted Bt. 2,000. I repeatedly informed him ‘No’. I opened the door, but he would not leave. Eventually, I decided I was not going to give in and I began to push him out. He resisted and kept saying Bt. 2,000. There was then quite a bit of shouting. It took a good 2 minutes for me finally to push him into the corridor (being much younger, he was a good bit stronger than me) and close and lock the door.

 

I knew at the time that I was courting the possibility of some physical danger. However, everything about him suggested it would not come to that. And thankfully it did not. But I can be quite stubborn and I was not going to give in to what I saw as a form of after-the-event blackmail. 

 

I am pretty sensitive to loss of face issues, but cash had never once been mentioned. My question therefore is – has this happened to you before? If so, how have you coped with it? Would you just pay up and get rid of him? Would you compromise and give him, say, Bt. 1,200? Or would you stand your ground?

[firecat69]

I don't think there is any definitive answer to this. Certainly he was entitled to nothing and you were actually generous.

 

That said you have to take into the consideration where this is taking place, how much at risk you feel ,and whether you are afraid of repercussions.

 

Standing your ground might feel good but if you count it as a lesson learned, I guess it would be an inexpensive one not to let someone know where you live until you fully understand their intentions.

 

I understand BKK has the possibility of unpaid encounters especially when compared to say Pattaya.  That said I have become jaded enough to ask if there is any doubt in my mind.  In a few instances you may find a boy who is insulted by the question but rarely and if they are momentarily insulted they usually still go through with the meeting.

 

Bottom line they understand why you feel the need to ask the question, "Is money involved?"

[Guest scottishguy]

Firstly I admire you for standing your ground.

 

Having said that, I would have paid him the 2000B, written him off as a bad experience, and if he requested a re-match I would have felt comfortable with fobbing him off with excuses.

 

Now maybe you're wondering will he remember where you live... will he come back.... what if he sees you in the street, the mall........what if he starts calling you on your phone....

 

Alternatively, maybe you're not wondering that - if so, kudos to you.

 

I know it's probably the easy way out - but for 2000B I don't need people fucking with my head.

[TotallyOz]

I also admire you standing your ground. But, I am not sure I would have been able to do it. I might have just given him 1k baht and sent him away. That said, I have had friends in similar situations and they didn't know how to get out of it and at times it turned violent. I am glad your situation did not end in violence and I am glad you have people in the building that could have supported you when you needed it.

[kokopelli]

If I were in public and some cute guy smiled at me I would have known for sure that he wanted money!

 

But in a situation as FH I would have given him 1000TB + taxi in order to avoid any further physical confrontation and risk of injury or death.

[Guest]

The other party is at fault here.

 

1 He cannot expect Fountainhall to assume he's a money boy, having met in a bank in Bangkok.

 

2 If he wants money, he should raise the subject in advance.

 

3 As he wanted more than a typical BKK short time rate, he should not expect the other party to accept that, unless it was agreed in advance.

 

If it is quite obvious he's a money boy, then his expectation should correspond to the going rate for a freelancer operating in the locality.  Not more, not less. 

If there's any ambiguity about his working status, then if he wants to be sure of getting paid, he should negotiate it up front.

 

Fountainhall was right to stand his ground here.

[Guest scottishguy]

Of course Founty is in the right (and I am not saying otherwise) - but I don't see it as a matter of who is at fault.

 

I see it as simply a matter of how best to extricate oneself from an awkward situation with the least risk of future hassle.

[Guest luvthai]

iS YOUR LIFE WORTH 2,000 BAHT?  tHIS IS ONE CASE IN WHICH GIVING IN WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WISER CHOICE.  HAVING TO LOOK OVER ONES SHOULDER (THIS GUY MAY WANT TO GET EVEN) CAN BE ANNOYING.

[Bob]

Since you asked, it sounds like (not having been there) I would have just paid him the 2k and chalked it off to a learning experience. Absent him putting his hands on me, there's simply no way I would have physically moved him out the door.

 

I'm somewhat of the mindset that it's the obligation of the older adult to make certain up front as to what is expected as to services and payments, regardless if it's taking off an obvious money boy from a bar or elsewhere or hooking up with somebody where the situation is clearly more unknown.  But, on the other hand, I have almost no experience in the latter category so my opinion might be fairly worthless in this situation. 

 

Glad to hear, though, you didn't wind up receiving an unwanted muay thai lesson or even something worse than that.

[Guest fountainhall]

Thanks to everyone for your comments.

 

I now agree with those who say I allowed my feelings to overrule reason. I don't think the issue of my own security ever entered my thinking at the time. My condo has security guards. Anyone able to get beyond them has to have either a key card or use a finger scanner to get into the building.

 

It was a situation which flared up very suddenly, literally as he was at the door about to leave. I even had the feeling he, too, had not thought of asking for cash till then. Part of me was angry, but part of me was concerned that my wallet was in my bedroom. I did not want him in the living room alone in that situation, and I didn't want him following me into the bedroom and seeing a wallet with a good bit more than Bt. 2,000 in it, even though - again on reflection - I'm now certain he had no intention to rob me of anything.

 

Perhaps I should have offered an extra Bt. 1,000 to cool things down. As others have said, though, even if I had to go up to Bt. 2,000 it would have bought peace of mind in the longer term.

[ceejay]

It was a situation which flared up very suddenly, literally as he was at the door about to leave. I even had the feeling he, too, had not thought of asking for cash till then

That's what struck me when I read your original post. Could it be that he was not a money boy at all? That when he turned down the offer of a taxi fare and you continued to offer him money he was deeply offended and felt you were treating him like a money boy? And that what this was all about was him deciding that, if he was going to be treated like a hooker, he damned well wasn't going to be treated like a cheap hooker?

[Guest scottishguy]

Or, as the old anecdote goes:

 

He:   Would you sleep with a man for £1,000,000?

She: Yes!

He:   And for £5?

She:  FIVE POUNDS! What do you think I am?

He:   We have established what you are, my dear - we are now only haggling over the price!"

 

[Guest fountainhall]

Could it be that he was not a money boy at all? That when he turned down the offer of a taxi fare and you continued to offer him money he was deeply offended

 

I did think of that. As I said in my original post, I am well aware of the issue of 'face' and how Thais can be offended if they perceive they are being treated badly. But 100% I do not believe that in this case. Even though he had first said there was no need to pay his taxi, he then went on about living very far out. He eagerly took the Bt. 250 and immediately said it was not enough. He then took the extra Bt. 200. There was no suggestion whatever that he didn't want it, nor was there any attempt to give it back.

 

I still do not think he was a 'professional' money boy - in the sense that we normally think of money boys. He was clearly more interested in satisfying himself than me, which may also have been one reason for my being pissed off. Whatever, I have said before I do not understand Thai logic and I accept I may well have misread and thus mishandled the situation.

[Guest scottishguy]

The point is - you live and learn.

[kokopelli]

FH - I have heard similar stories from others, not necessarily in Thailand. Pick up someone for free/casual sex and then be presented with a bill for services rendered.

[baobao]

The point is - you live and learn.

...or as we've all read often enough you don't live, and others hopefully learn. Glad this worked out as a lesson and not a fatality.

[Guest]

The fact the guy's looking to satisfy himself primarily and then asks for money really takes the biscuit.

 

What I don't like is the implication that people who don't pay up in such circumstances are endangering their lives.

This was a one off encounter, there was no real reason for Fountainhall to pay anything and he made the right call.

[firecat69]

FH you should know that the current ( Ithink owner) of SGT is making some rather derogatory comments about this post on his Board. Evidently he does not have the balls to make his comments here!!!

[Guest fountainhall]

Thanks firecat69. I just looked at that thread. What he says on his Board has no concern for me. The only thing I object to is the suggestion so often trotted out by those who seem to spend most of their time in Pattaya that every younger Thai guy who smiles at an older farang is automatically a money boy! Same as those who believe everyone on gayromeo, gaydar, silver daddies, fridae and a host of other sites is a moneyboy. Over many years, I have met many guys here in BKK who wanted to meet older guys and money never ever came into the equation. Same in Taipei, same in Hong Kong, same in Tokyo, same in KL, same in Beijing, same in . . . need I go on?

 

Oh, and I object to one other thing! Rather than paraphrase in his own words the discussion on this Board, he might have had the decency - to say nothing of courtesy - to provide a link. Then he would not have needed to use his over-fanciful imagination to spice things up for his readers by throwing in for good measure totally fictitious juicy and salacious extras that are nowhere to be found in this thread. This was the action of a coward with his own agenda. Perhaps living in Pattaya does that to you!  

[Guest fountainhall]

I missed the edit deadline. My last sentence should have read - Perhaps living in Pattaya does this to some!

[Guest]

The only thing I object to is the suggestion so often trotted out by those who seem to spend most of their time in Pattaya that every younger Thai guy who smiles at an older farang is automatically a money boy!

To be fair, in Pattaya that's probably true.

Bangkok is different, for example trying to find a money boy on Gayromeo can be rather difficult there. Most of them seem interested in normal dates.

 

So if I'm chatting go an Asian guy on Gay Romeo in Pattaya, I assume he's a money boy. If in Bangkok, I assume he's not.

 

Had your original encounter been in a bank in South Pattaya, I would be suggesting that you should be expecting to pay him 1000 baht.

Although, it would still be fair to expect him to take care to ensure you understand he's working beforehand.

[zombie]

hey fountainhall. I have recently joined here and on SGT and I posted on the latter forum suggesting amongst other things and in effect that the boss there should not inaccurately para phrase your story in away to suit his own agenda. He is getting in a fit now accusing me and you of being one and the same etc., etc.

But I guess the guy is very unwell and is retiring soon. So we need to make allowances for people who are seriously unwell.

Good luck and happy new year.

[Guest fountainhall]

Thank you zombie - I appreciate your involvement in what seems to have become a rather heated discussion over there with several wholly inaccurate accusations now being thrown around by the owner. I saw your post just as I made one of my own. I was not planning to intervene there, but my posting name was mentioned. Having now criticised the owner of that Forum for inaccuracies and erroneous summaries instead of posting a direct link (with which I would have had zero concern), I am hoping he will now just pipe down. If so, I will do likewise.

[williewillie]

I noticed that several posters dared to criticize the owner for his actions.  Kudos to firecat and others.

I believe that the strong possibility exists that

the owner's stroke as well as his imminent departure have affected his sensibilities.  Maybe he is getting in his last licks against

posters he has issues with before he loses his "power" as a board owner.  It could be dementia or irritable bowel syndrome.

Fountainhall has the right attitude and should let this "tempest in a teapot" roll off his back like a duck does with the rain.

[TotallyOz]

I just went to look at the thread there and only see 3 posts. I don't see any responses from anyone on this site including FH or Firecat. Am I missing something?