Misleading (nearly) Advertising

[Guest fountainhall]

It's a nice idea, but it would never work, unfortunately. The' travelling parents of the world' lobby would mount a spirited defence against which it would be impossible to win. And I cannot see the airlines doing anything to help.

[Guest scottishguy]

You're right, no airline would offer child-free flights.

It's not acceptable commercially or socially to say you find want child-free surroundings - the only exception I can think of is some Holiday companies who offer child-free hotels

 

Was there not an airline in the last 10 years which tried offering only business-class? I think they went bust fairly quickly.

[Guest fountainhall]

Several started up and then went bust. But some of the major airlines also have business class only flights. BA has a daily service out of London City to JFK. Singapore Airiines used to have one all-business non-stop ex-JFK, but it died last year I think. A smaller carrier, Hong Kong Airlines also offers business class only to London, but it has two types of business class. The front end has sleeper seats; the back end cheaper reclining seats. More like an enhanced premium economy, I guess.

[ChristianPFC]

I've been on flights where the smell from the adjoining passenger's socks and shoes was so foul I could not get any sleep at all!

 

That must have been me. When I left England for good on 30.11.2010, there was snow, and my shoes were not watertight so I got wet socks, right at the beginning of a 20+ hour travel. Rather than sitting through the whole journey with wet socks, I took out my shoes and put my sock on the grille in the leg area. From London to Dubai (?) they got dry.

 

Apart from that, I shave, shower and even change my underwear when I travel between Thailand and Europe.

 

But the real danger of compulsorily charging fat people extra to fly is, as Founty suggests,  in developing a "where do you stop" mentality:

 

1. Might you might be charged per toilet visit -  lest some person with diarrhoea might be shitting more than their fair share?
2. Ought constipated passengers or those with Colostomy/Urine bags get a discount?
3. Might partially sighted or hard of hearing passengers demand a reduction on the in-flight entertainment?
4. Ought there to be a reduction for having a screaming baby within a 10ft radius of your seat? 

As Basil Fawlty might say "This is exactly how Nazi Germany started"

 

 

Germany recently introduced (or is to introduce shortly) a compulsory fee for electronic entertainment devices. Before, we had a society that counted radios and tv (different fees for color or b/w) in your household, car, second household; now with the advent of tv via internet everyone has to pay, regardless of number of devices he has and if he wants radio, tv, internet. There is only one exception: if you are blind and deaf (and have a medical certificate as proof), you are exempt from this media fee. (No joke, really!)

[Guest scottishguy]

Well, as you will know - we in the UK have to pay a TV Licence Fee to fund the State Broadcaster (and I use that term deliberately) whether or not we watch their TV Channels or listen to their Radio Stations.

 

Currently its £145.50 for Colour and £49.00 for Black & White TV - I don't think one requires a Radio Licence any more.

 

But at least we can beat the German "handicap" discounts (in terms of being ludicrous):

 

If you are (registered) Blind and under 75 you get 50% off  (presumably because you can still hear it)

Whereas, if you are Deaf and under 75 you get 0% discount (I guess you can watch the subtitles).

So, if you are Blind and Deaf and under 75 you must pay £72.75 - despite the fact you can neither see nor hear the TV or Radio.

But - if you are Blind, Deaf, Under 75, and living in a Care Home, you only pay £7.50 - even if you have your own TV in the care home.

However, you've hit the jackpot if you're Blind, Deaf, and over 75 - in which case it's free - which might seem generous except that a +75yo person with perfect sight and vision gets it free too!

 

Fountainhall - I looked at Hong Kong Airlines and can't find those flights you mention.

[Guest fountainhall]

There is a good reason for that! I see the service went the way of Singapore Airlines' JFK flight. Apparently it was cancelled after only 6 months! Yet the price for the front-of-the-bus seat was more than you'd pay for both BA and Cathay - provided you booked these carriers far enough ahead. I know someone who got a seat at short notice last summer and said it was excellent. Seems the only all-business flight left is BA's London City/JFK.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/inside-travel-hong-kong-airlines-abandons-gatwick-8027442.html

[Rogie]

Well, as you will know - we in the UK have to pay a Licence Fee to fund the State Broadcaster (and I use that term deliberately) whether or not we watch their TV Channels or listen to their Radio Stations.

 

Currently its £145.50 for Colour and £49.00 for Black & White.

 

Anyone with a black and white TV must be living in the 1960's as that's all you can do, watch TV 'live'. If you try and be clever and record programmes, you've got to stump up for a colour licence! Here's what it says:

 

If you use TV equipment to record television programmes, you need a colour licence even if you only have a black and white television as TV equipment records TV in colour.

 

Do British viewers need a licence to watch on their computer, eg. via BBC iPlayer? What I mean is, could you scrap your TV and the need for a licence and just watch on-line?

 

Ah, just noticed definition of TV equipment includes computers! so the answer's no.

[Guest scottishguy]

This is a moot point Rogie - there is a difference between how TV Licensing interpret the law on their website and what the law actually says (which is having TV equipment capable of receiving a signal)

 

Some legal experts maintain that as long as you do not watch TV "live" in the UK - you in fact do not require a licence, as you are not receiving a TV signal at all (colour or otherwise).

 

If that is correct then so long as you watched those TV programmes via BBC iPlayer or ITV player, on your computer, then you'd be ok - unless you had some kind of TV signal receiving feature installed on your computer.

 

Then there is another argument that even if you watched live TV via a streaming website - then you're still not receiving a signal - the website is receiving it, not you - so you don't need a licence.

 

I don't think either of these interpretations have been tested in Court yet - probably because the authorities won't bring a case lest it goes against them and people realise they may be paying unnecessarily.

[NIrishGuy]

Unfortunately Fountainhall, attitudes have developed in such away that parents now believe it is their right to inflict their unruly brats on the rest of society, and it is our duty to accept their often appalling behaviour.

Turns out we're not the only moaning old farts though it seems as even if you just type Adult only flights into Google there is a mountain of people and surveys talking about it and up to half the people surveyed ( who have children themselves even) say it's not an unreasonable idea - but of course only in business class it seems - us cattle class low lifes will just have to suffer and smile it seems for a while longer :-(

 

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=adult+only+flights&oq=adult+only+flights&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.1050.3253.1.3892.18.17.0.0.0.0.135.1541.13j4.17.0.les%3Beappsweb..0.0...1.1.5.hp.d4P-H2fmMyw&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.d2k&fp=de49eac6adf4710e&biw=1838&bih=944

[Rogie]

 - but of course only in business class it seems - us cattle class low lifes will just have to suffer and smile it seems for a while longer :-(

 

 

Anyone heard of chicken class? No, not those! Just a name for a secret cabin where you can smuggle your kids in 'under wraps'.under the noses of those snooty types lording it in the A380 business class bar.

 

[ChristianPFC]

I recently rode in a van from Sri Ratcha to Bangkok, where I sat with 3 others (i.e. we were 4) on a bench intended for 3, with body contact to my right neighbor and to the fare collector (standing) and my knees touching the seat in front of me. Another passenger was standing, so we were 18 in a van intended for 15. Sometimes you have to take your luggage on your lap.

 

Compared with these vans, econony class in airplanes look like luxury to me!

[Guest scottishguy]

The difference is that I'm betting you could easily have afforded to "upgrade" to a regular bus (I presume they run that route?) and still have paid a very small fare (but you didn't because you revel in doing everything the cheapest way possible - no offence intended, just an observation).

 

This is not the case for most people who travel Economy Class on airlines, where an upgrade to Business Class usually costs many hundreds or even a thousand Euros or more.

[Guest]

There are cases where upgrades give good value and other examples where they look expensive.

 

Travelling by train in Eastern Europe, it can cost about £1 per hour for an upgrade to first class. That's a good way to avoid overcrowding and noise.  In one case, I had the entire first class carriage to myself for a few hours.

 

Paying Air Asia the modest fee to get a seat in the front row of the plane can work too. You get the extra leg room, plus the benefit of being first through immigration.  In somewhere like Phonm Penh, where the baggage handling is swift, it's a real advantage.

 

Paying for business class on planes looks expensive. The cost seems to be about £40 per hour extra.

 

The other problem area is where it's not possible to easily identify an alternative. Such as buses in Vietnam. These seem to stop every time there's a possibility to pick up a passenger. They cram 3 people into a pair of seats, then put more people on plastic stools in the Aisle.

Thai minibuses can be a complete shambles, as they wait around for hours, swap people from van to van and generally make the whole experience seem inefficient.

Contrast with Malaysia, where it's easy to find buses with just 3 seats across a full width bus, a very generous seat pitch and a proper recline. These only stop at defined locations & run to a timetable. I'd like the option of that kind of bus in other countries.

 

Actually, in Vietnam, I quickly decided both the trains and buses were too squalid to consider for long distance travel, hence some cheap flights on Jet Star Asia were booked for long distance travel.

[Guest scottishguy]

....Paying for business class on planes looks expensive. The cost seems to be about £40 per hour extra.

 

Really?

 

Care to back your assertion? 

 

The flight from GLA-DBX-BKK is around 14 hours - I will gladly give you 14 x £40= £560 to upgrade my £550 Economy Class ticket to Business Class for that sum. 

 

If you can not, you pay the difference.

 

I'll even extend the challenge to any London Airport to BKK @ say 12 hours x £40 = £480

 

Deal?

 

[Guest]

Really?

 Care to back your assertion?

I did an example search on Kayak:

 

Out on 7th Dec, back on 1 January.

Excluding developing country airlines.

LHR to BKK

 

Cheapest flight with one stop in economy = £673

Cheapest flight with one stop in business = £1695 (Cathay Pacific)

Difference = £1022

Total flying time on the Finn air flight is about 26 hours, so that's about £39.30 per hour difference.

 

To be fair, the differential on direct flights is nearer to £60 an hour at the moment, but I have seen better prices for direct business class flights in the last couple of years, which was my basis for the £40 figure.

[Guest scottishguy]

December - fuck sake! 

 

The flight time you quote 26 hours is ludicrous!

 

Find me a flight of 134/14/15 hours for which the Business Class equivalent is £40 an hour more - you can't!

 

I'm  waiting!!

[Guest]

December - fuck sake! 

The flight time you quote 26 hours is ludicrous!

Find me a flight of 134/14/15 hours for which the Business Class equivalent is £40 an hour more - you can't!

I'm  waiting!!

Top tip -try behaving in a more courteous manner. That way you might retain some goodwill from the members of this board.

 

December is about the best time of the year to visit Thailand. That's when I prefer to travel, so that's the time I did the search for. In December it's veryy cold in the UK and nice & dry in Thailand.

 

The minimum total flying time direct is about 22~23 hours return. So a total flying time of 26 hours for an indirect flight does not seem unreasonable. In fact, I think my example has met your criteria, as you seem to be looking at one way travel.

[Guest scottishguy]

Listen - don't patronise me - you said you could upgrade for Economy to Business Class for $40 per hour - prove it- without a +10 hour layover.

 

GLA-DXB - BKK  total (return)  28 hours -  August 2013  - £550 return  - you get me me Business for an extra $40 per hour = 28hrs x $40   =  $745 =  £  = total £1295.00

 - or any direct flight from London economy basic) fare + £694 to upgrade to Business class.

 

I'm not interested in kudos from GT members, I'm interested in what is true 

[Guest]

Listen - don't patronise me - you said you could upgrade for Economy to Business Class for $40 per hour - prove it- without a +10 hour layover.

My original post said "about £40 an hour", not $40. There's a big difference. The example is almost exactly £40 an hour, on a roughly like for like basis (one stop). Then you start changing the currency and adding conditions.

 

You're being rude, aggressive and hopelessly incorrect with the facts.

 

I'm now see how it might have gone wrong on your previous board.

[Guest fountainhall]

Come on guys! z909 answered the question with a perfectly valid answer! Neither timing of the trip nor point of departure was ever a factor in any of the original suggestions/questions. To then get angry about the answer is just plain petty!

 

A return business class flight on CX from LHR to BKK via HKG for just £1,695 is an amazing price and on CX you can do both trips for between 16'30" and 17'00". So what does it matter if this is a bit more than £40 per hour? Business class is always going to be more expensive. The fact is that at that time of year when aircraft are packed and economy tickets are jacked up,  $1,695 is an AMAZING fare for business class, especially when the long sectors on a 4-class aircraft!

 

As for travelling ex GLA, that throws up another point - competition , or rather the lack of it. I have not checked any timetables or airlines, but  cannot imagine there are many other one-stop flights on regular carriers to choose from other than perhaps BA, Air France, KLM or a combination of BA plus TG.Try getting any of that lot at £1,695!

 

That said, I will agree that approx. $40 per hour extra seems a rarity with business class - the more so since Premium Economy started up on several airlines and the cost spreads between the classes are widening. Depending on the time to year and how far ahead I book, it's still possible to get business class to the UK on Gulf Air or Oman Air (which I'm told is an excellent airline) at around Bt. 70,000. Royal Jordanian another very good airline) comes in at about Bt. 15,000 more, with Finnair amongst the next group. I have flown Finnair to London several times. Because Helsinki offers very short connections - as little as about 35 minutes - the total flight time is often only a couple of hours more than the non-stop carriers (and even less than CX).

 

The fact is - you pays your money and you takes your choice! If you want the cheapest business class, the chances are you will have long layovers somewhere (but with some airlines you might get free transfers and a free hotel). Shorter flight times will cost you!

[Guest scottishguy]

I'm a conciliatory person - so I'll agree that you can maybe upgrade from Economy to Business for around £40 an hour if you make a 26 hour journey instead of 13-15 hours..which would allow you approx £1000 to upgrade with.

 

Hell, why not go the whole hog - if you sit in the Airport for a couple of weeks, and factor all those £40 hours into the equation, you could probably upgrade to First Class for £40 an hour.

 

But I prefer to compare like with like - and I maintain that on that basis you can not upgrade from Economy to Business for £40 an hour.

 

But I'll say no more- I wouldn't want it to come between us 

 

  

[Guest]

Well now we're doing reconciliation, I agree £40 an hour looks like it could be at the lower end of the range & perhaps an average fare would be nearer £60 an hour extra.
I have seen direct flights for ~£40 an hour extra, but perhaps that's more of an exception.
Either way, it's expensive.

 

if you make a 26 hour journey instead of 13-15 hours..

You need to go supersonic to do do London==>BKK==> London in 15 hours. I don't think there are any options for that.

A total flying time of 26 hours both ways is not bad for an indirect flight.   Considering ticket prices are return, I've included flying hours both ways.

Note: All my prices are on £(GBP). The mid market rate is about $1.51 to the £, so please add 50% if you think in USD. This may change, considering our leaders are doing their best to debase the currency.
(See other thread)

[Guest scottishguy]

Just for clarification - it is approx 12 hours DIRECT & ONE WAY from London - so 24 hours round-trip. I had assumed your itinerary was 26 hours one-way (if I misconstrued that, I apologise)

 

[Guest fountainhall]

I also mis-read it - apologies! Perhaps it was because when I checked on kayak there were indeed one-stop one way flights on offer that lasted around 25+ hours!

 

Rather than considering business class as paying an extra per hour supplement, it is surely far better to consider it on a total cost basis. If you check far enough ahead on BA for non-stop flights to from LHR to BKK, premium economy seems to come it at around 3 times the basic economy price and business class around 5 times. Over time, these prices then start going up so that business class is around 7 - 8 times the economy price. With one-stop flights, though, business will usually be less, depending on the airline and routing - and length of stop-overs.