Brazil Nightclub Fire: Thailand's Unlearned Lessons

[Guest fountainhall]

The terrible loss of life in the Brazil nightclub fire highlights once again the need for those visiting clubs here in Thailand to take extra special care. The fire on New Year’s Eve 2008 at the Santika Club in Soi Ekamai killed 59 people and injured a further 184. As in Brazil, some form of pyrotechnics had been set off indoors resulting in an out-of-control fire. Also as in Brazil, most of those who lost their lives died as a result either of smoke inhalation or in the stampede to escape.

In that particular case, unlike some others, the Courts sentenced two Club executives to three years in jail and ordered them to pay compensation of Bt. 87 million. So at least some form of justice was meted out. Yet, the issue of fire regulations and their implementation seems to have made little progress since then.

Most Message Boards on matters in Thailand have at one time or another highlighted the problem of clubs having either insufficient exits or some exits blocked – or both. Gay Thailand Boards have repeatedly cited DJ Station on Silom Soi 2 as an accident waiting to happen. The club itself is often packed most days of the week. Were there a fire, the main exit is a very small one leading out to a very narrow alley. I believe that any fire in any of the many establishments in that soi would within seconds lead to panic. Hundreds of bodies cramming in to that narrow alley desperately trying to get out to Silom would, sad to say, inevitably result in a tragedy similar to what we saw in Ekamai and in Brazil.

Since the authorities seem to have little care about the possibility of further incidents here in Thailand, I hope everyone attending a club or an upstairs pub will take it upon themselves to –

1. first double-check the location of the exits,

2. then ensure they are not locked or in any other way blocked, and then

3. work out how they would reach those exits should a fire and the resultant panic break out.

You have no choice but to look out for your own safety. The authorities are unlikely to do it for you.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Since the authorities seem to have little care about the possibility of further incidents here in Thailand, I hope everyone attending a club or an upstairs pub will take it upon themselves to –

 

1. first double-check the location of the exits,

 

2. then ensure they are not locked or in any other way blocked, and then

 

3. work out how they would reach those exits should a fire and the resultant panic break out.

 

You have no choice but to look out for your own safety. The authorities are unlikely to do it for you.

 

I've always done [1] and [3] when entering a club I've not been to before or for a long time - notably DJ Station on my first visit back to that refurbished club in 2011 after a number of years. [2] is more difficult as I am reluctant to be seen trying to open a door which management/security might take exception to being tampered with - particularly one that is only marked as an emergency exit and is otherwise never used. I guess I take a certain amount of risk in banking on the right door being unlocked if it's needed.

 

The one exit I have in mind in DJ Station is on the second level (first floor) at the top of the stairs (the stairs which lead directly to dance floor on the ground level). Someone once told me there's nothing behind that door - it's a straight drop (I doubt that). Some else told me that it leads into the multi-level car park at the back of the soi (more likely). I would be interested to know - and not have to find out during a conflagration. 

 

At least DJ Station appears to have alternative exits.

 

G.O.D. anyone? There seems to be only one way out of that place - the main entrance. If that place ever went up on a good night it would be absolute carnage. Add to that the fact that it's an illegal club and you can bet that they haven't so much as given a nod to fire (or any other) safety standards. It certainly takes a few drinks to get me into that place and stay a while.

 

I do admit to going there on occasion, though. You'll find me near the entrance. Mine's a scotch and coke. 

 

Cheers.

[Guest thaiworthy]

Add to that the fact that it's an illegal club

 

Illegal in what way?

[TotallyOz]

Great post FH. I love the dance clubs in Brazil and they are probably the most amazing I have ever seen. But, after this horrendous event, it has me rethinking a few of the clubs I go to. One in Sao Paulo has the best drag show on earth but I only remember one exit. I'll have to start paying much more attention to all the details. Thanks for the very thoughtful post.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Illegal in what way?

 

Illegal in that as far as I know it doesn't have a club licence which requires mandatory fire safety checks (such licences are applied in Thailand and unless club owners pay off the right people they don't get away with not having one - especially since the Santika incident), and illegal in that the staff blatantly offer to sell drugs including cocaine and ice (crystal meth) to customers. There are some serious pay-offs going on there. Payments and enforcement must be somewhat hit and miss however, accounting for the club sometimes being closed for months on end before opening again. 

 

I remember the last time I was in G.O.D. on a weeknight before flying home and a staff member came around pushing drinks (they don't really like punters being there without drinking when it's not busy). I asked for a scotch and coke. He said "Sure, anything else? Ice, coke?" Me: "Yeah, scotch and coke, with ice". Him: "No - you want drug? Cocaine, ice, speed, ectasy [sic]?" Me: "No, just the drink, thank you". I kid you not.

 

To my knowledge the Santika Club in Ekamai had a licence of some sort, but the investigation revealed it did not have a club licence, which was part of the reason why adequate fire controls were not in place.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Addendum: you might also have noticed that G.O.D. is open long after the 2/3 am curfew which is applied to other clubs such as DJ Station (the typical G.O.D. closing time is 5, sometimes 6 am). The only way a club can remain open after that time is by operating outside the law by making certain "arrangements".

 

Just a point of interest...

[Rogie]

What is this boards's policy on naming places that are best avoided? I have seen it said one cannot (mustn't) write anything libellous (eg. you mustn't say such and such a go-go bar hires underage boys). This G.O.D. club - I've never been so I have to go by what others write - looks to me like a place 'best avoided'. I think we should shout it from the rooftops actually. An underage boy or two isn't going to kill anybody, so let's leave it to the NGO's or whoever to sniff those places out. What is MUCH more important is the issue of safety in the clubs. If G.O.D. really is such a deathtrap as JM describes, instead of the kinds of posts we see where the member describes his wonderful evening mixing with the boys, we should be hollering STAY AWAY! If I am a lone voice on this fair enough, forget I ever said it, but unless somebody wishes to write to reassure me that this club is safe and what's more doesn't routinely sell drugs to young people, I urge it be named and shamed.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Um, oh dear. 

 

I've been posting before thinking, haven't I?

 

You raise some valid points, Rogie, but remember that my observations and reasoning - while I stand by them - do not constitute evidence, and therefore could legally be deemed libellous. Also, it is somewhat tenuous to "name and shame" any business based on one person's - my own - statements. I admit my own culpability there.
 

If I could provide solid, independently-verifiable evidence for my claims then fair enough. But the fact is I can't. I've just been honestly posting my own understanding, experiences and observations. 

 

Scooby: I won't protest in the least if you decide it's appropriate to remove my posts/comments regarding G.O.D. in this thread.

 

Cheers.

[Rogie]

Thanks for clarifying matters Jovianmoon.

 

I'll leave my post #7 above unedited and leave it up to the mod to decide.

 

In my first draft in response to JM's posts #2, 5, and 6 I said something to the effect "if another member can corroborate what Jovianmoon has written, . . . "

 

Sorry, I left that out of the final version.

 

Apologies to Jovianmoon for taking the baton and running with it without looking where I was going!

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Apologies to Jovianmoon for taking the baton and running with it without looking where I was going!

 

I'm the one who posted potentially libellous comments (to which you rightly drew my attention), so you have nothing to apologise for.

[Rogie]

I'm the one who posted potentially libellous comments (to which you rightly drew my attention), so you have nothing to apologise for.

 

You're too kind sir.

 

Once you get the bit between your teeth (not that I ever literally have!) it's easy to overreact. I think we all feel pretty strongly about these tragic incidents in clubs and as we all know Thailand's clubs are, unless we go and check for ourselves, something of an unknown quantity. Even if they do have a licence, I would still like to think we would do the 3-step check that Fountainhall lists in the OP. We ourselves may be quite prepared to take the risk, but just suppose none us was. Would we then turn a blind eye to the risks run by others? Hopefully not. If some kind of action is not taken now, this topic will sink to the bottom of the pile until the next fire happens - the much-discussed (on this board and elswhere) issue of the gun laws in the US - albeit hopefully having reached a tipping point - is another example of plenty of lurid headlines followed by an almighty silence.

[Guest fountainhall]

I would not hold out for much action - certainly in Thailand. The gay establishments that depend on the BIB for keeping them open are unlikely to spend money on additional safety features. I even know of some condos where, despite the presence of smoke detectors, fire-hoses and a so-called emergency staircase, a major fire would be likely to result in deaths, if only because the emergency exit doors are not guaranteed to swing shut and the emergency stairs have open window slats at every level. In case of fire, these open doors and the wind flowing up through them would do nothing more than feed the flames! 

 

Looking after your own safety should be routine for those who travel. When you arrive in a new hotel/guest house, the first thing you should do in your room is check the location of the nearest fire exits. You should make a mantel note of whether to turn left or right as you leave your room and the number of doors you must pass (including lift doors) before you reach the exit. In the unlikely event that you hear a fire alarm, you have to assume that the corridor outside may be filled with smoke and you will be crawling on your knees in some panic. Doing this kind of homework could save your life.

[Bob]

You should make a mantel note

 

I made a note about that on my fireplace mental but am not sure I'll be able to read it if there's a lot of smoke.

 

I really don't worry about almost any hotel I've stayed in as they seem to relatively safe.  I have been in some older Thai buildings (including a disco or two in Bangkok) that just scream "danger" (crowded with people, limited exits, etc.) but, other than noticing the problem, it usually doesn't stop me from entering.

 

At Taepae Gate on New Years Eve, the crowd on the square and out on the streets was so big and packed in like sardines that I actually felt worried for my safety a few times.  Had there been a panic of any kind (for example, if there had been an errant firework or if a serious fight broke out), hundreds of people would have been really hurt.