Porn Firms Sue Over Condom Law!

[TotallyOz]

So he wanted to know if Michael has given me 15 "lies" this time. But he is Thai and has problems making the "k" sound. It gets omitted, sometimes. I'm not sure if this is one of those times.

No. But, please list the 15 "lies" you and the BF believe I told.

[Guest thaiworthy]

The really big lie is the belief that rights are being violated when really it is big money at stake.

 

But it's not your fault, perhaps you are caught up in the mood of he convention, so I don't blame you for your convictions. You are being spoon fed these beliefs by the industry and eventually your head will clear. I'm sure all that sexy glamour has taken its toll on your psyche and in a fantasy world like that-- all is not really as you have been led to believe.

 

I say this because your dissent in this thread is so adamantly stubborn, repetitive and boorish; you seem delirious and intoxicated, which is unlike you in all the time I have been reading your thoughts as a member of gaythailand. It all comes down to the value of a single human life and the struggle we have as a civilized society to change the things that we collectively see as wrong.

 

You alone cannot be right when so many have said you aren't. It doesn't matter if it's 15 lies or just one. It's the principles you hold which have no foundation. You are confused. You confuse role models with educators and that's another misrepresentation. And those pictures you posted are supposed to make us to believe you actually have serious intent? Really?

 

It is clear to me now you are just having a good time and want us to as well. I hope you are enjoying having your jolly way with us. What better way to stimulate readership on a board than to strongly vociferate a contrary opinion?

 

Please post some more pictures so we can all enjoy the good laugh.

[Bob]

Sometimes you guys argue like 13-year-old school girls.  Handbags at 15 paces, girls!

 

(Damn, don't use those funny little symbols - whatever you call them - very often but I think I found one that's perfect to describe Khun Khortose's driving:   )

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Reading is fundamental!

 

I do not understand this exclamation. Are you suggesting that I have not read all the other posts in the thread, and therefore I have missed where someone actually did argue that something similar to the hypothetical regulations you postulated were espoused?

 

If so, please quote the relevant posts.

[KhorTose]

(Damn, don't use those funny little symbols - whatever you call them - very often but I think I found one that's perfect to describe Khun Khortose's driving:   )

At least I can drive in this country which is more then I can say about  ladies from the midwest.  I have a symbol for you too.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

FH: Does these ladies really look like educators to you? Are these the ones that SHOULD be shaping the minds of our youth?

 

 

"...shaping the minds of our youth"? 

 

You now seem to be suggesting that the argument for legislating against barebacking in porn films is somehow analogous to - or in any way relevant to - an argument that porn actors are somehow responsible for 'shaping the minds of our youth'.

 

Oh no! You've done it again!

 

It is not reasonable to suggest that a porn actor should be an educator of any kind - but being in the public eye, porn actors do have a responsibility to show by example the simplest means of avoiding HIV infection - quite simply because it is the right thing to do and it is not difficult. But commercially-published acts of barebacking show a profit-driven reckless indifference to the epidemic, and that is maddening.

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Excellent post thaiworthy, and I agree and support almost all of it, except for this:

 

You alone cannot be right when so many have said you aren't.

 

To be fair to Michael, if I call him on his logical fallacies then I must call you on yours.

 

You have invoked Argumentum ad populum, also known as the Bandwagon Fallacy.

 

Michael's position is flawed because it does not stand up to rational scrutiny. The fact that most people seem to recognise this and disagree with his argument is irrelevant to whether or not his position is valid.

[Rogie]

Taken from the article quoted in post # 19

 

"Because of court rulings, filming adult movies is legal in California, Florida and New Hampshire. Nevada, where prostitution is legal, tolerates it. "

 

Why just those places?

 

I can understand California and Nevada and Florida, but why New Hampshire? Why not any other state? Only 4 out of 50! (or is it 51?).

 

I know New Hampshire fancies itself as a bastion of personal 'freedom', hence I believe seat belts in cars are optional, but their inclusion as a place to film porn seems way out on a limb to me.

 

What is it that allows the four places mentioned to involve themselves in porn in this way? I see it says "because of court rulings". Does that mean other states aren't interested or if they were, didn't get the approval from the relevant court(s)?

 

I'm crossing my fingers I haven't triggered another FALLACY ALERT!!

[Guest Jovianmoon]

Only 4 out of 50! (or is it 51?)... 

 

50.

 

I'm crossing my fingers I haven't triggered another FALLACY ALERT!!

 

LOL. Well, your post is basically just asking questions so that's pretty much a fallacy-free zone   

 

I'm not American so I can't help with the answers... 

[Guest thaiworthy]

You have invoked Argumentum ad populum, also known as the Bandwagon Fallacy.

 

Fair enough. It's not often I'm right. And it feels good on the few rare occasions when it does happen, especially when backed by my comrades and that rarely happens around here. It only exploits the feel-good factor and is irrelevant. Good catch.

[Guest fountainhall]

This thread always had two 'threads', as it were - the use of condoms in an age when all researchers and practitioners in the medical profession agree that this will help prevent the spread of the HIV virus in a time of pandemic; and the infringement of personal liberty.

 

Although it is not exactly similar, I could not help thinking about this as I walked round Hong Kong this week. There is a 'flu epidemic in the USA that has, we are told, reached pandemic proportions. A lot of people fly between Hong Kong and the US. So the sight of a great many people wearing face masks was not unusual. That 'flu bug will find its way into Asia sooner rather than later, if it is not here already.

 

The point is that ‘flu warnings are now being seen in many places. And people are taking heed. Not all, yet; but many. After all, it was in the adjacent Guangdong Province where several strains of avian ‘flu, swine ‘flu and SARS all originated. Hong Kong people know full well that wearing a tightly fitting face mask and regular washing of hands are about the only reasonable defenses they have against yet another serious ‘flu. A vaccine is only 60-something % effective. So they take heed!

 

As with the subject of this thread, this is not a matter of personal liberty. It is a matter of a serious hazard to health.

[TotallyOz]

The really big lie is the belief that rights are being violated when really it is big money at stake.

I am sure you noticed that I did not comment on your nasty photo which was about as childish as a 12 year old girl wanting to have a cat fight. It was rude and I thought beneath you. But, I was wrong about that. I declined to comment and would not have commented on your last postings except you called me out as someone who told 15 lies. Well, I am glad you decided it was only one. That one was not a lie either. It was simply that you disagree that someone's personal rights trump the issues that are caused by the AIDS epidemic. While you are entitled to your opinion, to call someone a liar based on that is absurd.

But it's not your fault, perhaps you are caught up in the mood of he convention, so I don't blame you for your convictions. You are being spoon fed these beliefs by the industry and eventually your head will clear. I'm sure all that sexy glamour has taken its toll on your psyche and in a fantasy world like that-- all is not really as you have been led to believe.

LOL You are either joking or you don't get out very much. I have been to hundreds of these conventions, circuit parties, festivals, etc. over the years. I don't get caught up in the mood of any of them and haven't for over 15 years. Perhaps you think that I don't have the intelligence to think for myself and that would be pretty unintelligent on your part.

 

No one spoon fed me anything. I chose to seek out the FSC attorneys and staff to ask them about the case. Amazing that I have the intelligence to do that right?

I say this because your dissent in this thread is so adamantly stubborn, repetitive and boorish; you seem delirious and intoxicated, which is unlike you in all the time I have been reading your thoughts as a member of gaythailand.

This is about as silly, queenish, totally delirious, nasty and fucking insane a comment as I have seen on this board. I know that I should not lower myself to your level but I decided to chime in. You must be in a very bad place in your life to be so negative, nasty and catty. I hope that all is OK with you. If you were just intoxicated, please understand that it is OK to wait till after the hangover to post.

Please post some more pictures so we can all enjoy the good laugh.

They were not meant to make you laugh. They were meant to show you who you have deemed as educators. You all agreed that the porn stars at the educators of today's youth. I just wanted you to see up close who you have deemed the educators. I never agreed with you as I think teachers and parents should be the educators but you all seem to be happy with porn stars as educators. So, laugh all you will but in the end, the laugh is on you.

[Guest thaiworthy]

You all agreed that the porn stars at(sic) the educators of today's youth.

Who agreed? Name one. I don't believe anyone referred to them as educators, except you. We called them role models, which is a big difference. The two terms are not interchangeable.

 

Michael, if I really believed that the teachers at my parochial school were role models, then today I'd be a nun! And that's why those pictures are laughable.

 

--Sister Mary Thaiworthy

[TotallyOz]

Who agreed? Name one.

 

--Sister Mary Thaiworthy

Jesus Fucking Christ Sister Mary Thaiworthy. You expect me to go back and read all these boorish posts? Fuck no. Go do 12 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Father.

[Guest thaiworthy]

do 12 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Father.

 

Our Michael, who art in Vegas,

Hallowed be they condom,

Thy web site come, thy will be done,

In Nevada as it is in Thailand.

Give us this day our daily "likes"

and forgive us our rants and angry postings,

as we forgive those who rant against us,

And lead us not into temptation

But deliver us from email.

 

Amen!

[TotallyOz]

It really matters little how many young Thai guys respond. The fact is that some will wish to imitate what they see on porn vdos because, as stated earlier, that is how they learn about sex. It is sad that they learn the wrong message.

 

 

Question for Sister Mary Thaiworthy:

 

Is learning about sex and sex education the same? Or, should it be separate as well?

 

Who agreed? Name one. I don't believe anyone referred to them as educators, except you.

[Guest thaiworthy]

In the context of Fountainhall's quote, I would say learning about sex is not a formal lesson from an educator but rather from a role model. You can learn from role models as well. You should be asking Fountainhall this question since he is he one who wrote it, not me. If my rosary beads were not in such a tangle right now, I would have more time to answer your question. I shall pray for your everlasting soul instead.

 

Reverend Fountainhall may explain what he meant as soon as he gets off his knees.

[TotallyOz]

In the context of Fountainhall's quote, I would say learning about sex is not a formal lesson from an educator but rather from a role model. You can learn from role models as well. You should be asking Fountainhall this question since he is he one who wrote it, not me. If my rosary beads were not in such a tangle right now, I would have more time to answer your question. I shall pray for your everlasting soul instead.

 

Reverend Fountainhall may explain what he meant as soon as he gets off his knees.

I throw the JovianMoon Bullshit Fallacy as you Sister! Formal Education? BS. BS. BS.

 

You are hereby and forthwith excommunicated for your blasphemy!

[Guest thaiworthy]

You are hereby and forthwith excommunicated for your blasphemy!

 

You're just sore at me because I did not fall into your trap.

 

Does this mean you're not going to "like" my post?

[TotallyOz]

You're just sore at me because I did not fall into your trap.

 

Does this mean you're not going to "like" my post?

Sorry, I didn't like any of your posts in this thread.

[Guest fountainhall]

Gentlemen! Pause, please, for a moment! I'm not a reverend or a man of the cloth of any stripe, and will be grateful not to be so described.

 

Let’s also get one thing clear. Please review my posts #22 and 27. I have never said the porn industry is, or should be, “an education tool” (Michael’s words).  I agreed entirely with Michael that sex education is an issue for parents, schools and teachers. But, let’s be honest – it SHOULD be. Sadly, we know perfectly well that in many parts of the world – is it fair to say most parts of the world? – this is not the case. Parents, schools and teachers mostly get lousy grades on that particular job.

 

That being the case, then who else is it but friends, classmates and role models who generally step into the breach to supply that very necessary knowledge? To expect youngsters to pick up accurate information on their own about one of the two or three most serious health issues of our day is, frankly, stupid. To expect youngsters of both sexes to learn about the importance of condom use in stopping the spread of HIV on their own is equally stupid.

 

It is a proven fact that youngsters are influenced by role models. Cigarette companies pounced on that truth more than half a century ago. Product placement in movies is a key part of the marketing budgets of several major companies and it is designed specifically to associate those products with pleasing environments, successful people, etc. etc.

 

In the case of porn movies, role models may not be the ideal description for the actors. But surely it is true that those who buy such vdos do so in part because the actors and the situations fit their fantasies? Yes, I agree they are fantasies. But if you are a youngster and you know no better, if you see your ideal hunk barebacking a twink who may look as you may wish to look and that gives you a particular thrill, there is a message there. In a sense, it's the same as product placement – although in this case the message is the lack of product = lack of condom.

 

How many may be influenced by this? How many will brush it aside and say I have read the disclaimer at the start of the vdo and I know it is something I should not do? Frankly, I haven’t the faintest idea. But I stick by my case. As long as there is a chance that some youngsters somewhere are turned on by the idea that condomless sex as seen in porn vdos is what sex is about, then in these years of HIV, not only is the wrong message being sent, some lives are potentially being put at risk.

[KhorTose]

Well they are educators, as I've seen several of these women advertise themselves as a "Sex Therapist" in Seattle's local alternative newspapers.

[Guest timmberty]

FH i would have agreed with you if you had written that 20 years ago.. but most porn is now viewed thru the computer, and there is a lot of amature stuff out there to view.

lets also be honest about kids now-a-days and when we where kids, can you say you have always used a condon ? did you bother about it when you first had sex at 16 - 17 or when ever ? at that age you are immune from death, all kids know they can take on the world at that age.

for me. you cant teach those that dont want to learn!

if it was that easy there would be millions less people in the world, but kids dont think they can get pregnant the first time they have sex ... and all the education in the world aint gonna change that.

[Guest fountainhall]

You are absolutely correct. At 16 - 17 and even older, I did not use condoms. But then I am older than you and I was sexually active for a few years before HIV-AIDS came along. 

 

I don't care how kids view porn these days. If it's on the computer, then some will be amateur stuff and some is likely to be professional. Let's face it. There are tons of sites out there. I also don't know what kids think nowadays. But if they are not using condoms, they are playing a very silly form of Russian roulette. It's not a question of having children or not; it's about getting an disease which, as of now, will remain with them for the rest of their lives and continue as a risk to all their future partners.

[Guest timmberty]

i agree with you .. i tend to go off on tangents as you may have noticed. with the kids thing .. what i mean is girls and boys both know if they have sex without a condom they can end up with kids.

they dont seem to care about that, so im sure they wont worry about catching h.i.v. either,

and seeing pornos with guys wearing or not wearing a condom isnt going to change their minds one bit.

guys the world over are having sex without condoms as i type this, they know they have a chance to catch something that will change their lives ( gladly now not ruin it ).. yet they still go comando..

a kid of 16 in the throws of his first shag is very unlikely to spoil the mood by putting on a condom even if it is on the bedside cabinet, in reach.. thats the way its always been..

sad but true.