homophobes incidents

[ceejay]

My opinion on this matter has nothing to do with the law, which I did not mention. I personally think that it is wrong to:

1) Take photographs in an area where a substantial number of the people there are made to feel uncomfortable or apprehensive. The gay areas of Pattaya are such places. Whether or not their discomfort or apprehension is founded in fact is irrelevant.

2) Take photographs of people who do not wish to be photographed, as was clearly the case with this one. I would have deleted it.

3) Publish photographs taken in circumstances a) or b ) above.

To argue that something is within the law, and made easier by modern technology, is therefore OK is the morality of the paparazzi. Personal standards are not just about what you can do and what you can get away with.

Please, nobody try to tell me I am wrong. I am writing about my personal opinion on this subject. I am the world expert on what my own opinions are and I am not in the habit of lying about it.

[Bob]

I'm not taking issue with Ceejay's personal opinion as I generally share it. There's definitely (for me, at least) a substantial difference between what is "legal" and what is "appropriate." I personally don't accept that it is appropriate for anyone to take my photo without my permission and sure as hell it's not appropriate to publish that photo on the internet without additional permission. I may not be able to sue somebody for doing that but I am more than likely going to call them an asshole.

 

Taking somebody's photo in a particularly sensitive area (like outside a girlie or bar bar) is, in my view, even worse - especially if one later posts that photo on the internet. Simply tastless/classless in my opinion.

 

There are many occasions where I believe it's okay not only to take somebody's photo in public but also to post such photos on the internet. Public events - such as a Loy Krathong parade, stage acts at a morlam,or a Gay Pride wherever - are fully fair game in my view (at least as far as the participants are concerned whereas I would have reservations about photographing or publishing photos of onlookers).

[Guest thaiworthy]

Public events - such as a Loy Krathong parade, stage acts at a morlam,or a Gay Pride wherever - are fully fair game in my view (at least as far as the participants are concerned whereas I would have reservations about photographing or publishing photos of onlookers).

 

Sometimes photographing passersby is unavoidable in these situations. I think that was one of FH's major points, the 3 Thai guys. I see your point Bob, and it's a good one. Faces recognized in a background now seem to be in the eye of the beholder, though. You know him or you don't, and those who do always seem to have an opinion. Admittedly, I don''t know any of these people, and I do try and respect their rights the best I can, but sometimes things go wrong. It's accidental because you don't think that person is recognizable. To someone else, it may be different if he knows the people who may linger in that area every day. That's his point-of-view and that's his opinion.

 

The solution may be that there is no solution. At least, no real absolute one.

 

And this is a different age we live in. There are cameras everywhere. We are under surveillance constantly. Webcams, security cameras, big brother, and as FH mentioned-- cell phones, just how do you avoid it? Practically speaking, it's impossible. The definition of privacy has changed and there's precious little anyone can do about it, because it just seems to be getting worse. Don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

 

Sure, you don't have to like it. That is your personal opinion. Congratulations on making your voice heard. You can shout your personal opinion from the rooftops, but will that stop it? Doubtful.

[Bob]

I just happen to believe in a zone and right of privacy excepting for people purposively being in the public spotlight. Just because there's a camera everywhere doesn't give anybody the right to invade that zone in my view. And my comments about onlookers really didn't extend to the notion of some onlooker happening to be in the background (that onlooker clearly sees the hundreds of cameras pointed at him).

 

I do agree with Khun Fountainhill's comments about personal responsibility - meaning, don't be doing those kinds of things in public that obviously draw attention to yourself (such as playing "smoochie smoochie" in public, grabbing your boyfriend's crotch or ass in public, being a drunken dork, etc.) and I obviously feel less sorry for those caught doing those types of behaviors; yet, I have little sympathy towards those who would publish such photos.

[Mysteryman]

Didn´t think this would upset so many. The moderator can delete it if he wants. But just look around in internet. There are thousands of pics from the bars. One example only: http://www.up2u-boybar-pattaya.com/. There are pics that I know that the thais were not asked about permission. In my pic I have the permission of one in the pic, he is right now here with me.

 

I feel it is quite impossible to take a pic in Pattaya, without catching any outsiders in the pic. Someone said he would have deleted the pic, if that man became so upset. I would not! But we can discuss if it was right to upload it here.

[Guest timmberty]

it makes one question why do you go to sunee or boyztown in the first place ??

i would imagine the reply would be because that is where as a gay man i feel comfortable ..

so if a camera then comes out what happens . you get all shy and retired ..

what a load of bullshyte ... personally some people just like to moan about anything .. you are worried someone might see the picture at home .. they dont know you are gay ,, as fh said .. how many of your friends or relations trawl thru gay thai web sites?

and if someone did happen to see a picture of you sat in a bar next to a thai boy what would they think?

that you was on holiday in thailand, and woo hoo low and behold theres some thai boys in thai bars ..

heres an idea to all the worried not out gay men,, before you head off to the gay bars of pattaya hop round the straight bars first and get loads of pictures of you with thai ladies .. then let things take there course .. and see if when you get home all your friends tell you how lucky you are to be surrounded by thai girls .. or do you think they may never ever get to see any pictures of you ?

[Guest timmberty]

just a point bob have you ever thought to travel with beachlover ?? he seems more than capable of taking pictures with no one in them ...

i bet your holiday snaps are great ... heres a picture of the beach .. yes i know its dark .. i had to wait till everyone went home as i didnt want to get them on the picture ..

heres a picture of the pattaya central mall .. i know its dark i had to break in after it shut and i didnt want to get anyone in the picture ... ano ano ano ..

[Guest fountainhall]

I personally think that it is wrong to:

1) Take photographs in an area where a substantial number of the people there are made to feel uncomfortable or apprehensive. The gay areas of Pattaya are such places.

Please, nobody try to tell me I am wrong. I am writing about my personal opinion on this subject.

 

Khun ceejay, I fully respect your view. I fully understand that others will agree with it.

 

But I admit to some confusion. I am rarely in Pattaya and so can not comment meaningfully about its gay areas. But in Soi Twilight in Bangkok - arguably the most gay soi in the city with all manner of gay establishments - I have often (and I do stress "often") seen gay tourists from Japan, China and Korea, for example, taking photographs. These guys have no similar street in their home countries and quite understandably they want to show their friends back home. Equally, I have quite often seen ladies in that soi take photos. Never once in many, many years have I ever seen anyone object and ask for the photos to be deleted (or in earlier times the film be taken out) - not the touts, not the bar boys, not the farang and other tourists sitting at the beer bars, entering the gogo bars, massage parlours or simply just wandering and taking in the ambience.

 

So I personally think there is a bit of an assumption in your post - when you suggest "a substantial number of the people there are made to feel uncomfortable or apprehensive." Again, I cannot speak for Pattaya, but I do not get the impression that many people in the gay areas in Bangkok have such feelings.

[Guest thaiworthy]

I just happen to believe in a zone and right of privacy excepting for people purposively being in the public spotlight. Just because there's a camera everywhere doesn't give anybody the right to invade that zone in my view.

 

What zones? Where? Are you in my zone or am I in yours? Perhaps we should forget zones and devout ourselves to self-respect as much as we can. If a mistake gets made, and someone is recognized, oh lordy . . . will the lynch mob attack him for what I've done?

 

I'm going to admit what I have been withholding all along. I despise hypocritical people. If you are going to be out and about in Sunee, and someone's viewfinder finds you in errant shot, so be it. If you're gay and yet afraid of being seen, then you have other problems than worrying about being the non-descript mug in the far left corner of someone's picture.

 

They might as well just lynch me, instead. At least I will defend what I believe in.

[Guest timmberty]

well said thaiworthy .. i often use the word .... cant think of it at the moment ill edit it in when i remember it!!

the joys of getting old .. now why did i go to the kitchen ?? and why is there a pair of socks in the fridge !

and just so you know i am a not out gay man ,,, seeing a camera in sunee bothers me not 1 iota

and if any of my friends do trawl thru gay thai web sites ill deal with that when it happens ..

tho i would be 99.9 % sure it will never occur ..

[Bob]

just a point bob have you ever thought to travel with beachlover ??

 

Lol. Sounds like you've been around the boards a little while longer than your 15 posts would suggest.

 

So nobody misinterprets my comments, they were not aimed at all at the OP. His photo accidentally caught the back of the dork he mentioned and, as he noted, there's apparently nobody clearly identifiable in the photo. He (the OP) was just taking a photo of a bar.

 

I'd note to Khun TW that you might want to read the comments a bit more carefully. Intentionally taking a photo of somebody is slightly different than somebody happening to be in the background of a photo you're taking in a public location. I don't really care who's in the background, including myself, with respect to a photo somebody's taking for other purposes in a public location; however, with respect to certain sensitive areas (in front of the million lady bars or the hundreds of gay bars), I'd think that there is a bit more responsiblity before publicly posting photos with identifiable people. You mention the word "respectful" and that sounds like we don't disagree all that much.

[Guest thaiworthy]

You mention the word "respectful" and that sounds like we don't disagree all that much.

 

You're right. We don't. Malicious intent was never the subject here, or so I thought.

[Mysteryman]

As ceejay pointed out, this is a discussion about incidents. Therefore I fully understand his point. This picture posted, is not just a pic from sunee to show people how it looks, it is a picture about him who reacted when the photo was taken.

 

I guess ceejay would not have anything against this pic if it was posted for example in a thread called "Pics from Pattaya" ?

[ceejay]

Again, I cannot speak for Pattaya

I can. I haven't carried out a survey. My opinion is based on conversations I have had with people there, and things I have heard said when cameras have been used. Could I add that the way you have edited my post in your quotation gives a very inaccurate impression? It's customary to indicate that a block of text has been omitted by a series of dots............ or some such.

 

Timberty - I'm not sure that your post has to do with anything I have said. I have posted exclusively about taking photographs, not being photographed, and about consideration for the feelings of others -

Whether or not their discomfort or apprehension is founded in fact is irrelevant.

[Guest fountainhall]

Could I add that the way you have edited my post in your quotation gives a very inaccurate impression? It's customary to indicate that a block of text has been omitted by a series of dots............ or some such

 

Indeed you can, and I apologise. Normally I do add dots (or sometimes numbers), and I cannot think why I did not do so on this occasion.

 

That said, though, I can not work out how I gave a very inaccurate impression - unless you feel including one part of your answer and not the others gave too much stress to that part. I was intending to answer the points which I highlighted - and I again apologise if you feel that misrepresented your post.

[kokopelli]

When I saw that photo I was shocked! There was my Thai bf with the red shirt and red purse; he's so cute.

[Mysteryman]

When I saw that photo I was shocked! There was my Thai bf with the red shirt and red purse; he's so cute.

 

I hope you'll get over it, though ;-)