homophobes incidents

[Guest terrychris]

Have you had any Homophobic incidents happen to you in Thailand.

I only had one on a baht bus where i was taking a boy off and we got on and there were these two tattooed english guys with shaved heads sitting opposite and they were making fun of us.

[kokopelli]

I have had a few stares from straight couples when sitting with the bf at a restaurant but nothing overt.

[Guest fountainhall]

If I find people staring at me when I have company, I immediately stare back at them and keep staring until they look away. It always seems to work!

[Bob]

Twice and I only hesitate to mention them as I consider such incidents essentially non-existent here in Thailand. Once (8-10 years ago) in Pattaya on Walking Street by a group of rowdy Russians and once (last year) in a girlie bar by the Chiangmai moat by a drunken lout (almost had to have fisticuffs with that dork).

[mahjongguy]

It's so rare that if it happens it's a shock. Three years in Bangkok and never even a sour look.

 

Right after I moved to Pattaya, an aging Brit footie brute walked past and said "pervert". Coward that he was, he walked on a good bit before stopping and turning around. I just stared at him 'cause it was still sinking in. Fortunately my b/f, who was 34 at the time, hadn't realized we'd been dissed; he learned in the Army how to deal with bullies. Pound 'em.

[ChristianPFC]

No.

 

(Answer in a full sentence: I never had a homophobic incident.)

[Guest thaiworthy]

No homophobic. But, I've seen young straight couples making out in public, much to general disapproval. (Get a room!) Is that heterophobic?

[Bob]

But, I've seen young straight couples making out in public, much to general disapproval. (Get a room!) Is that heterophobic?

 

Nah, just good eyesight and taste.

[ceejay]

Right after I moved to Pattaya, an aging Brit footie brute walked past and said "pervert".

Interestng. Exactly that happened to me in 2007. An old, definitely British guy who just bellowed "Pervert" into my ear as I walked past. I wonder if we have an acquaitance in common?

This guy was a picture. Old, overweight, wearing no shirt, just shorts and flip-flops, bright red face, whether from alcohol, sun or fury I know not and care less. I know who everyone thought was the oddball, and it wasn't me (for a change).

[Rogie]

My Thai companion and myself were dancing in one of those places on the beach in Samet (the island) and a couple of young-ish falung males made some noises but hardly an incident, just a mild annoyance.

 

On a related subject, and in view of the feeling the majority of adverse comments made come from the mouths of drunken yobs, one has to be very careful if you yourself have drunk a little too much. You may be able to hold your drink and shrug it off but your Thai friend especially if he's had a few may react badly risking escalating the problem. I say that because although Thais are lovely people under normal circumstances, when they risk losing face there is the chance they may turn violent. If the offending homophobic falung(s) is/are old and fat that's one thing but if they are young and bristling with testosterone better watch out!

[Guest takeaway77]

Walking away from the gay beach, I got "growled at" by a middle aged caucasion male of indeterminate nationality. That was the only anoyiing event of the trip.

[Mysteryman]

Some years ago, December 2006, as I visited Pattaya for the first time, I had my camera with me in the evening. I felt I wanted to have a picture of the bar where he who I had come to see worked.

 

So I just picked up my camera and snapped one quickly. This was in the evening, so the flash lit up the scene a bit. Then the foreigner, who walked in front of me turned around, and said to me: "Do you really have to take pictures here?" I didn't reply at all.

 

I still have the pic, and the man can be seen from behind on that pic, and nobody other can be recognised either. This is the only time I've taken a picture outside the bars. Maybe some of you would know him if I only could show the pic to you, but would that be inappropriate, as I have no way of asking him for permission...

 

Btw...how do I upload a pic to this site? Can I upload straight from my computer, or do I need to link it to some Flickr or similar?

[kokopelli]

To upload a pic here you first can download the pic to your computer. Then when you want to post the pic you will see "More Reply Options" at the right hand bottom of the page. You will see Attach Photo; click on Browse and choose/open the photos shown on your computer's downloads/documents. Then click on Attach File. Maybe there are other methods?

[Guest thaiworthy]

I usually upload pix to Photobucket, copy the link, click the link button and paste it in.

[Rogie]

As I understand it, if you use an external photo-hosting site and post the pic here it is visible to everyone, including non-members.

 

Doing it the way Kokopelli describes means the pic is only visible if you are logged in, so I suppose it could be argued that makes any pics you upload just that bit more private, as only registered members who are logged in can see them.

[Guest fountainhall]

Rogie is correct. By using the "Attach Pic" box on "More Reply Options", the photo can only be seen by registered members. I do it that way, not for privacy, but in the hope that more readers will be encouraged to become members.

[Rogie]

. . . in the hope that more readers will be encouraged to become members.

 

It's worth joining just to be able to see your photos FH, plus I might add those recently posted by Michael. Many other members post interesting photos and pics too.

[Guest thaiworthy]

As I understand it, if you use an external photo-hosting site and post the pic here . . .

 

I guess I just got used to doing that way on gaybuttonthai.

[Mysteryman]

So, he is the pic... just to get more people to register, hehe...

 

And in case you recognise yourself... no hard feelings, ok?

 

Ps. Click on the photo to see it fully....

[Guest thaiworthy]

Since it shows him from the back, I think it might be OK. If he was rude, just consider the source. Maybe he was Russian?!

[ceejay]

Personally, I don't think it is OK, but that decision ultimately rests with board admin. Many people object to photography in areas like Sunee, sometimes for good reason. They may not be out at home and may even come from a part of the world where being seen in a gay area could put them in real danger.

This photograph is not one that just happens to have a back view of someone in it. It is a post about that person with a photo attached, and they have not given permission for that image to be used. In my opinion that's just not on, whether or not the individual is recognisable (incidentally the OP acknowledges that the person could be recognised from the picture). Where do you draw the line? What level of "recognisability" do you have to reach before the post becomes unacceptable?

Two other points:

and nobody other can be recognised either.

There are 3 Thais in that picture who can be recognised. Don't they count?

If he was rude,

On the facts in the posts above, not as rude as taking the photograph in the first place - let alone posting it in a public forum.

[Rogie]

It's certainly not acceptable to take pics in any area where men go to meet other men, or women for that matter. Even within the confines of a gay club such as the ones in Boystown and even if the performers in the show are westerners dressed up in drag it is frowned upon, if not completely disallowed. The photos one can see on gay websites are taken by people well-known to the management, with their permission. At least that is the way it used to be, unless things have changed.

 

Just supposing somebody was in the habit of making homophobic comments or gestures, and he frequented Sunee for example on a regular basis. How to deal with that? Contact the police? Probably a good idea in many western countries where homophobia is recognised as a 'hate crime', but in Thailand personally I wouldn't wish to involve the police. I would favour word of mouth, such that the offending person whenever he was spotted lurking was made to feel uncomfortable. Eventually the penny would drop and he'd quit his antics. How to let others know about him so he could be avoided? Rather than posting his pic on a message board such as this, photos could still be taken on mobile phones or similar and if you were going to meet a group of friends for drinks just pass the photo around amongst yourselves with a comment along the lines of "watch out for this guy, he has a bad reputation".

 

Homophobic comments made when you are 'out and about', away from a recognised gay area, with your Thai friend(s) are not so easy to counter. My comments in the preceding paragraph relate just to repeat offenders - hopefully there aren't any, but it seems a good idea to have some sort of strategy for dealing with it should it occur.

[Guest fountainhall]

There are a number of issues that come into play here – one clearly being the rights of the individual. This was partly covered in a long thread some time ago which included pictures of Thai guys in swimming briefs or jeans walking on Dong Tan beach. One poster suggested something along the lines of the possibility of the guys’ parents being horrified to find that their youngsters, whom they thought were waiters in respectable restaurants, were not just playing on a beach, but on a gay beach, and that the photo appeared on a gay chat room website! To which another said he was chuckling at the thought of Mama back in Issan scouring the internet for photos of her son in gay Thailand forums – pictures that could only be viewed after becoming members of the site, to boot! Indeed, one has visions of Mama with magnifying glass in hand, Sherlock Holmes-like, desperately checking if it is or is not the small gay section of a long public beach! As if she’d know!

 

The law is the law and clearly should be respected and obeyed (incidentally, does anyone know precisely what the law in Thailand states concerning this matter?). Yet, putting flippancy and whatever the precise wording of the law may be aside, one issue surely is: what privacy should anyone expect (not, please note, be entitled to) if they choose to be in a very public place – like a street or a beach? To expect total privacy in this day of camera phones, iPad cameras and their like is, frankly, stupid. And in this same era of Facebook, You Tube and their like, to expect that any photo that happens to include you is unlikely to appear somewhere is equally so.

 

In Thailand, when a photo appears in the newspapers of an accident, the faces of those standing-by are rarely blurred to avoid recognition. Indeed, full-face photos of those only assumed to be guilty of an alleged crime (and sometimes of their slain victims) appear. When a photo appears of His Majesty addressing the crowds on his Birthday, no media block out the faces of those thrilled to be present amongst the crowds!

 

So I cannot understand why posters should be concerned about photographs being taken of them if they are in a street in a gay area (even assuming this is recognizable as such). Does anyone complain when their photos are taken as they take part in Songkran celebrations in Silom Soi 4 or PattayaLand? Did any unknowing passers-by in Taipei complain that they were photographed in the presence of dozens of young men dressed only in Speedos who were clearly gay as they were taking part in a Gay Parade? (I don't know the answer to that, but I am sure the gay Asian news sites would have been full of it had there been such a case). I was there for the entirely of that Parade snapping hundreds of photos of the participants and sometimes the passers-by. No-one made any gesture towards me – other than to smile. I don’t know if my own photo appeared in one of the newspapers or videos made of the event. But I don’t give a damn if it did. I was there. It was a public event in public places, for goodness sake!

 

Ceejay makes the point that in addition to the back of the man in the photo, there are three Thais recognizable. Well, because of the way it was uploaded, to see that photo you first have to be a member of gaythailand to view it. Irrespective of that, though, I take slight issue with the wording “can be recognised”. Yes, I can see three other men either full or side-on. But having enlarged the photo as best I can, it would be difficult for me to say whether they are Thai or not. I would also have extreme difficulty identifying any in a line-up. Granted, I am using very simple technology, and someone could, if they wished, get much clearer identifiable images.

 

But what is the issue? Oh yes, some legal eagle will start spouting the mumbo jumbo we have heard before, and he will probably be to a large extent correct – in the strict terms of the laws in some countries. But, as already asked, what is the precise wording of the law in Thailand?

 

That apart – and I know this is likely to be the long, drawn-out story as most legal issues are – we still come back to the basic issue: if you go out in a public area and someone happens to take and publish your photo, so what? If someone decides to snap a fuzzy image with you in it walking down Soi Twilight, whatever the law states, what exactly are you going to do about it? Sue? How do you end up doing that without bringing far more attention to the photograph and ending up vastly out of pocket. In this regard, I do believe there is a time for realism, no matter what the law states.

 

In the above, I am talking merely about the taking and publishing of photos – not accompanying them with comment which may identify or in some way possibly libel the individual/s.

 

I know some others will not agree with my comments. But instead of mere legal jargon, it would be nice to have some response about the actual and more practical issues I have highlighted.

[TotallyOz]

FH, you bring up many good points and I agree with most of everything in your post. What I think the issue is, and it is just IMHO, is that some people are embarrassed to be seen in Sunee Plaza. It is just a taboo in that area to have a camera. I remember sitting in one beer bar about a year ago and a gay guy and his boy were taking photos of themselves and the boys they were drinking with. Another bar owner approached them and told them that was not OK and if they did not stop their camera would be taken from them.

 

I do not see the same scenario taking places in other areas of Pattaya.

 

In fact, photography is encouraged in many of the lady bars and ladyboy bars. Could it be that gays are still very leery to be associated with being gay? Or, is it the particular area they are in?

[Guest fountainhall]

I can understand the concern re Sunee, given the less desirable part of its past history. And I can also understand the bar owner's view. I do not consider a bar or any restricted indoor establishment a public place. There was on this Board a long thread with lots of ladyboy photos from Obsessions Club. The photos had been taken mostly inside the Club and the poster clearly wrote that he had permission to post.

 

The street outside a bar, however, is very much a public place, IMHO - as is a beach, whether it be straight, gay, nude, topless or whatever. Now I have been to nude beaches where there are notices stating that photography is forbidden. That is the rule and that rule should be obeyed. I don't know of any street or beach in Thailand with such a notice.

 

Are gays more leery of being associated with being gay? Perhaps some are. And perhaps with understandable reason. If you are someone of my vintage and you are snapped with a guy in his 20s - especially if both are holding hands, some gay guys will be concerned. Tongues could wag if the photo is seen back at home. But let's be totally realistic. What is the likelihood of that happening - unless you are a major celebrity or a royal? If you are worried about being photographed, just take a little extra care. Don't hold your companion's hand in the open!