Rogie Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 In theGet 1 Year of SirusXM Radio for Free thread I used the expression (to) chat up. "Between listening to the radio, watching TV/video and posting on message boards, chatting to your visitors and chatting up the male orderlies, time will fly, and before you know it you'll be plus one nice new hip." I thought nothing of it, but apparently the expression was not heard on America much before the '90s. (see graph below). Quite coincidental to my using it, the BBC News Magazine has an interesting web article that discusses Britishisms and the Britishisation of American English. There would have been no difference between British and American English when the founding fathers first crossed the Atlantic. It took time for the two to go their separate ways - a process given a jolt by Noah Webster, who published the first dictionary of American English in 1806, 30 years after the Declaration of Independence. Webster introduced the distinctive American spellings of words like honour (honor), colour (color), defence (defense), and centre (center), as well as including specifically American words like skunk and chowder. "He wanted very much for this budding new nation to have its own language," says Kory Stamper, whose Merriam-Webster dictionary is the modern-day version of Webster's work. "If [we were] not British, but American, we needed to have an American language as well." These days, the "balance of payments" language-wise is very much skewed the other way - with Americanisms used far more in Britain than the other way round, says Nunberg. And though a few people do take umbrage at the use of British words in American English, they are in the minority, says Sheidlower. "In the UK, the use of Americanisms is seen as a sign that culture is going to hell." "But Americans think all British people are posh, so - aside from things that are fairly pretentious - no-one would mind." The use of chat up to refer to flirtatious conversation really began to take off in the 1990s, says Kory Stamper. Often you can't pinpoint why a word or phrase gets picked up, she says. Chat up is a good example of a Britishism that has "snuck in on cat's feet". There are many other examples given, such as ginger, sell-by date, (to) go missing, spot on, chattering classes, cheeky, the long game, twee, gastropub, metrosexual, snog, trendy, one-off, gormless . . . http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-19670686 Quote
Bob Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I and a couple of friends drive one of our British friends nuts by how we pronounce some words. In fact, the word that we pronounce that drives him the battiest is the word "pronunciation." We yanks (and Canadians and Aussies) pronounce it "pro - NUN - ciation" whereas he insists the the correct way to say it is "pro-nounce-ciation." What the heck, we'll "learn" him some day..... And I've found myself occasionally using the British spelling of the word "behavior" (which is "behaviour"). I've got to stop that. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 A few words kind of 'get' to me. The most grating is the American use of 'nucular' instead of 'nuclear'. Even a gaggle of US presidents have used the incorrect version. One expert suggests it could be derived from the slang use of the term 'nuke'. Whatever, it sounds really odd. Another is 'aluminum' instead of 'aluminium'. With this one, though, in the early days there seems always to have been a degree of doubt about how it should be spelled. Prior to 1895, both were used. Thereafter in the US it changed, even though Webster's Unabridged Dictionary of 1913 has aluminium as the only correct spelling. And moving further forward, the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry officially standardised 'aluminium' in 1990. But if the Americans have any concern at all about the Britishisation of their lingo, spare a thought for the French who have become paranoid about the creeping anglicisation of their langue - to the point where there is now a word for it: "franglais". Phrases like "le week-end" and "le fast-food" are not only officially frowned upon; in 2008 that august protector of the spoken word, the Académie française came up with a list of 65 pages of English words/phrases words to be banned and replaced by French equivalents. Want "Wi-Fi" in France? Officially, you should ask for "acces sans fils a l'internet" - wireless access to the internet. But how come "internet" has no French equivalent?? Mind you, the French shouldn’t complain too much. It often eems half their language is already in use around the world. Aperitif, a la carte, bric-a-brac, chic, cul-de-sac, en suite, menage a trois, souvenir . . .! Does any other language have so many of its words in common use outside its borders? I doubt it. Quote
Bob Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Somebody sent me a cartoon showing some stuffy old lady at a podium complaining about how people should be punished for their misuse of the English language. She was proposing a syn tax. Quote
Rogie Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 . In fact, the word that we pronounce that drives him the battiest is the word "pronunciation." We yanks (and Canadians and Aussies) pronounce it "pro - NUN - ciation" whereas he insists the the correct way to say it is "pro-nounce-ciation." What the heck, we'll "learn" him some day..... Your British friend would get funny looks from me too Bob. I'm with you and your other, non-British friends. Note the difference in spelling pronounce pronunciation no 'o' after the n in the latter mind you, spelling is not always a good guide to proNUNciation at all! But in this case it is. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Somebody sent me a cartoon showing some stuffy old lady at a podium complaining about how people should be punished for their misuse of the English language. She was proposing a syn tax. Got me! Touché! Nice one! Quote
kokopelli Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 And there is the difference between "skedule" and "schedule" because the Brits went to different schuls. Quote
kokopelli Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 A few words kind of 'get' to me. The most grating is the American use of 'nucular' instead of 'nuclear'. Even a gaggle of US presidents have used the incorrect version. One expert suggests it could be derived from the slang use of the term 'nuke'. Whatever, it sounds really odd. I believe "nucular" is a regional dialect rather than national. From where I live, I say "nuclear" but then, I am not a President. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 but then, I am not a President. Yet!! Quote
Bob Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I believe "nucular" is a regional dialect rather than national. From where I live, I say "nuclear" but then, I am not a President. Yea, don't blame all of us yanks because one rube from Texas can't figure out how to pronounce a few words! But, on the other hand, it was funny as hell a few times seeing George Jr. trying to say "nuclear" without spitting out a few teeth....hehe. Quote
pong Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Mind you, the French shouldn’t complain too much. It often eems half their language is already in use around the world. Aperitif, a la carte, bric-a-brac, chic, cul-de-sac, en suite, menage a trois, souvenir . . .! Does any other language have so many of its words in common use outside its borders? I doubt it. Yes-for sure, but most people wont know how to recognise it. And sometimes words get another scrpt that really hides their original source. But Dutch and Spanish can easily topple that French list. Dutch esp. in english-many seafaring terms, and perhaps a little less world-wide spread as those French words are. Quote
kokopelli Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Pong, can you give some examples of Dutch words such as seafaring terms migrating into English? Quote
kokopelli Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Koko's fertile brain picked up on this thread and posted a new quiz for the entomology inclined to review. Quote
Rogie Posted October 3, 2012 Author Posted October 3, 2012 There's nowt like a good quiz to tantalise us cheeky Brits, but, finger's crossed, we're dab hands at inventing things. The British are coming! The British are coming! After years of us importing Americanisms – taking rain checks, going on vacations, getting coffees and saying we’re good and OK – the tide is turning. Influenced by Downton Abbey, Doctor Who, Harry Potter and Top Gear, the Yanks are at last turning back to the language of the mother country. Ben Yagoda, a professor at the University of Delaware, has collected 150 “Britishisms” on his blog (britishisms.wordpress.com). Among his recent spots is a new tendency to use British “ginger” instead of the traditional American “redhead”, particularly of the British copper-top actor, Damian Lewis, who plays an American marine in the hit series, Homeland. “Toff”, too, has taken off, largely thanks to the success of Emmy-winning Downton Abbey. Last month, the Daily Beast, the American news website, said Mitt Romney “isn’t the bumbling toff he’s made out to be”. And it’s not just odd, one-off words that are sailing across the Atlantic but whole exp<b></b>ressions, too – those with a peculiarly British, understated air to them. Over the last few years, the gloriously euphemistic phrase, “have a quiet word with” has leapt into the American English lexicon, and on to the front page. Earlier this summer, the Washington Post, one of the US’s most venerable newspapers, said: “At the funeral of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy in August 2009, Boston’s Cardinal Sean Patrick O’Malley pulled President Obama aside for a quiet word.” Prof Yagoda has found regular, genuine examples of exp<b></b>ressions that only six years ago – when I lived in New York – would have sounded preposterous in an American mouth. I never heard a single New Yorker say “fingers crossed”, but now it is used regularly in Delaware. The professor has found shops that advertise their “opening hours”, where once they would have listed just “hours”. He has heard the understated Jeremy Clarksonism “piece of kit” describe elaborately constructed automobiles, or “cars”, as they are now called on both sides of the Atlantic. Yagoda has even seen bars proclaim they “do” food – an exp<b></b>ression I never saw after several years of dogged research in bars from New Orleans to Bangor, Maine. American spelling is also reverting to its original English form. Yagoda has spotted “endeavor” magically transformed into the English – and correct English, wouldn’t we all insist? – with that extra, penultimate “u”. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/9581982/Crossed-fingers-and-dab-hands-how-English-is-invading-America-again.html Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 pong is indeed correct: there are lots of Dutch words in use in English – Aardvark, Bazooka, Blunderbuss, Brandy, Bulwark, Bumpkin, Caboose, Cockatoo, Furlough, Gherkin, Gnu, Howitzer, Knickerbocker, Maelstrom, Poppycock, Rucksack, Wiggle, Wreck, Yacht etc. However, I doubt that he is correct about there being more Dutch or Spanish words. A quick check on wikipedia shows a huge list of French words, but far shorter lists for Dutch and Spanish. I suspect this goes way back to the times of the Norman Conquest whereafter English Kings were also Dukes of Normandy for 150 years. English kings spent about half their time in France and by the time of Henry II, England controlled about 2/3rds of France. French was not only the language of the Court but increasingly of other classes. So inevitably, a great number of these words were kept when use of the English language became more widespread. http://en.wikipedia....f_French_origin http://en.wikipedia....of_Dutch_origin http://en.wikipedia...._Spanish_origin Quote
KhorTose Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I think Fountainhall is correct about Spanish, as many of the words that are the same or very close in both languages are really from Latin. However, at least in America, everyone knows the names of the food eaten in most of Mexico and parts of Latin America and their is a distinct American language called Spanglish or Tex-mex that is a variation of English and spoken in America. Most Americans also now know the difference between the word Hispanic and the word Chicano. Quote
Rogie Posted October 4, 2012 Author Posted October 4, 2012 Here is part of the quote in post #14 that got mangled. The first one I added by copy and paste and as you can see it is fine. The second one was added in the same way but I then went back into my post and edited it. This caused the problem! It is something to do with the editing software (or whatever the correct technical exp<b></b>ression is). Later: Ha, that word we cannot use that begins with 'e' has been mangled even in a non-cut and paste comment. Bob had that happen to him a while ago in another thread I seem to recall. Please see post #19 and ignore my first paragraph above. _________________________________________________________________ Prof Yagoda has found regular, genuine examples of exp<b></b>ressions that only six years ago – when I lived in New York – would have sounded preposterous in an American mouth. I never heard a single New Yorker say “fingers crossed”, but now it is used regularly in Delaware. The professor has found shops that advertise their “opening hours”, where once they would have listed just “hours”. Prof Yagoda has found regular, genuine examples of exp<b></b>ressi&amp;#111;ns that only six years ago – when I lived in New York – would have sounded preposterous in an American mouth. I never heard a single New Yorker say “fingers crossed”, but now it is used regularly in Delaware. The professor has found shops that advertise their “opening hours”, where once they would have listed just “hours”. Quote
Bob Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Rogie, I had the same thing happen earlier.....whenever I tried to write a word in quotes. Somebody needs to tweak the software. Quote
Rogie Posted October 4, 2012 Author Posted October 4, 2012 Ok, sorry about post # 17. This time I just copied and pasted and clicked 'post'. I did not go back to use the edit. Let's see if it works ok this time! Prof Yagoda has found regular, genuine examples of expressions that only six years ago – when I lived in New York – would have sounded preposterous in an American mouth. I never heard a single New Yorker say “fingers crossed”, but now it is used regularly in Delaware. The professor has found shops that advertise their “opening hours”, where once they would have listed just “hours”. Quote
kokopelli Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Well, I did find an interesting word that migrated from Dutch into English. Jan Kees. Bet you all know that one??? Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Something about doodling and dandies? Quote
kokopelli Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 FH wins again with Jan Kees = YankeePer Pong's post and my own interest in seamen and nautical tails I did find a number of Dutch seafaring terms that migrated into English although many had earlier roots in other languages.During this search I discovered the origins of two words (not necessarily Dutch) I never knew; starboard the right side of a ship and port the left side. At one time (before rudders) a ship was steered with something that resembled an oar or board from the right side of the ship. Thus steerboard or starboard. Now which of you clever swabs (middle Dutch swabbe/mop) can figure out the origin of port for the left side? It does make sense! And no, it has nothing to do with Port wine. Quote
Bob Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 my own interest in seamen and nautical tails . No wonder Koko spends a lot of time down at the naval base... (and it's spelled "semen", Koko). Quote
kokopelli Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I do spend a lot of time down at the navel base working my way from stem to stern! The mates, cockswain and I splice the mainbrace and wet our whistles if you catch my drift Bob? No guesses on port side? Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Now which of you clever swabs (middle Dutch swabbe/mop) can figure out the origin of port for the left side? I cheated so I'll wait for others to get the answer! Still on nautical terminology, though, port and starboard crop up in another English word 'Posh'. This goes back to colonial Britain and in particular the Jewel in the Crown - India. The upper-class young ladies fresh from finishing schools who would be sent to India to seek out suitable military officers or senior civil servant husbands were known as "The Fishing Fleet". And in those days with no air conditioning, the best way to avoid the worst of the sun was to travel out on the port side and return on the starboard - i.e. facing north - hence Port Out Starboard Home. Usually the fishing fleet sailed around Christmas. Those who made it back a few months later without rings on their fingers were known as "Returned Empties"! Quote
