Rogie Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 personally I will stick with Neil deGrasse Tyson, an astrophysicist who heads the Hayden Planetarium in New York: astrology was discredited 600 years ago with the birth of modern science. I am suspicious whenever anyone uses the (undoubted) great strides mankind has made since the dark ages as ammunition for debunking all previous modes of thought, beliefs, rituals, etc. "To teach it as though you are contributing to the fundamental knowledge of an informed electorate is astonishing in this, the 21st century," he said. Agreed - any good teacher has to be able to back up his subject matter if pressed. If he cannot do so he will be seriously compromised. I go back to the idea of coming up with a theory to explain how astrology works. We have already discounted the fraudsters so that leaves astrologists who have established a good reputation. So I could form a theory that says "any experienced astrologer should be able to produce an accurate reading whether he consults his astrological charts or not". That could be tested, and if the outcome was as predicted, hey presto, the suggestion made by khun Koko would seem to be correct. You could do adopt the same tactic with palmistry, tea leaf-readers and so on. If, on the other hand, it seems the astrologer really does need his charts in order to come up with an accurate reading, I could form a second theory: "if the person who's horoscope is being read and the astrologer are in separate rooms so that they cannot be seen to 'communicate', the accuracy of the reading will suffer". And so on . . . Education should be about knowing how to think, Tyson said. "And part of knowing how to think is knowing how the laws of nature shape the world around us. Without that knowledge, without that capacity to think, you can easily become a victim of people who seek to take advantage of you." This part of Tyson's comment is far too generalised. To be sure, being taught how to use the thinking 'function' of your brain is a vital skill. But equally, keep an open mind. If you come across something new, think about it carefully, if it is something outside your field of experience think about it very carefully, and if you are still unsure or maybe confused you have options: conveniently file it away as something you don't need or want to bother with, or treat it as a fresh challenge and get stuck in. A good example might be suppose you need your house re-wiring, and assuming you have no electrical training, you could read up about it and maybe ask an electrician friend, or you could look in the yellow pages, phone an electrician, and let him deal with it. To all intents and purposes, that electrician could be a Martian for all you care, he's just doing his job, but to you he's doing a thankless task that's well worth the money. He's not a miracle worker because you know the basic principals of how electricity works, but just imagine a qualified electrician aid worker in a third world country connecting up a rural village to the national grid for the first time, any villager watching him might well think of it as a 'miracle'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thaiworthy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I love Neil deGrasse Tyson! I think he is a brilliant thinker. I would love to hear his take on religion, the existence of God and the afterlife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Oh dear, i think khun TW would've ticked the warning box if only he could've. Then I'd be on my first warning, maybe on my way out, kicked out because I had the temerity to attack this guy Tyson who I'd never heard of until I did a search engine just now and see he's a bit like our own Britisher Brian Cox, popping up here and there with his boyish smile and floppy hair explaining the complexities of science to us plebs (Cox). Tyson has plenty to say about religion - he's been described as an armchair atheologian, sounds like he should be wearing a comfy pair of slippers, smoking jacket a la Noel Coward and sporting a dapper waxed moustache. Maybe the sort you might see bouncing his bonny grandson on his knee in the manner of a Norman Rockwell scene. WARNING! Suffering catfish - He says religions destroy civilisations. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkguy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I am suspicious whenever anyone uses the (undoubted) great strides mankind has made since the dark ages as ammunition for debunking all previous modes of thought, beliefs, rituals, etc. he is only debunking astrology, not "all previous modes of thought" - and what else should you do when a better theory comes along? cling to your old beliefs? He's not a miracle worker because you know the basic principals of how electricity works, but just imagine a qualified electrician aid worker in a third world country connecting up a rural village to the national grid for the first time, any villager watching him might well think of it as a 'miracle'. Arthur C. Clarke's third law Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic the critical issues is if the villiger really wants to understand he can study the physics involved and scientific research will continue to improve our understanding of this field compare this to religion where no amount of scientific research has any relevence because belief is based on faith compare this to astrology, homeopathy, chiropractic etc which claim to be "real" science but can offer no explanation of their field that can be understood within our current understanding of the real world. OK our current knowledge is limited and often wrong, but our knowledge grows (in an ideal world) by investigation and research, but there is no incentive for large scale scientific studies of these subjects because there is no funding becuase there is no money to be made from discrediting these fields, and these fields have no need to do extensive research because they rely on the fact that their practitioners can claim almost anything and their supporters will believe them - this is real magic, not science! bkkguy kokopelli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Well spoken, or rather, well written, bkkguy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Clarke's second law: The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. The importance of blood type in Japanese culture It is a good idea to know your blood type. While most Japanese know their blood type, many foreigners do not (and Japanese are frequently surprised to hear this). Many Japanese people believe that each blood type has a certain personality and affinity, so it is common for them to ask someone their blood type or try to guess someone’s blood type by their personality. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for women in their 20s and 30s to even select a prospective husband based on his blood type. There are many books about the various blood type personalities. For example, “A, B, O, AB gata jibun no setsumeisho” (A Guide to A, B, O, AB blood types), written by an unknown author who uses the pen name Jamais Jamais, have become best sellers in Japan. There's also recommended diets and type of exercise depending on which blood group you are. http://www.japantoday.com/category/lifestyle/view/the-importance-of-blood-type-in-japanese-culture compare this to astrology, homeopathy, chiropractic etc which claim to be "real" science but can offer no explanation of their field that can be understood within our current understanding of the real world. I agree that in the realms of pure science the distinction between what is possible and what is not is usually clear, and when it is not one can formulate a theory to test the boundaries. This can then be tested, and in some cases, such as the Higg's boson ('God particle') there can be quite some delay between formulation and confirmation. Equally a theory can be wrong and often is. Personally I wouldn't include astrology as a 'science', if you want to use the word science then by all means go ahead but it is really a pseudoscience. But in the arena of human belief systems or convictions or superstitions, what's impossible to some is possible to others. I don't believe in the idea that one's blood group can determine any of the characteristics attributed to it by some Japanese, but if some of them believe it maybe to them is is possible, rather than impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The pen name Jamais Jamais translates as Never Never in French. I do have a lady friend who sees a quack nutritionist (in my opinion) who advises what food to eat or avoid based on her blood type. Makes little sense to me but there is no rationale to quackery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Tyson has plenty to say about religion - he's been described as an armchair atheologian, sounds like he should be wearing a comfy pair of slippers, smoking jacket a la Noel Coward and sporting a dapper waxed moustache. Maybe the sort you might see bouncing his bonny grandson on his knee in the manner of a Norman Rockwell scene. Here is a photo of the real Neil deGrasse Tyson with a response to Rogie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 On the evidence of that photo, I think it's only fair to say we live in a post-Rockwell age He looks to me like a bad case of constipation, obviously eating all the wrong foods. What that guy needs is a good spanking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
