Guest fountainhall Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 A little article in today’s Guardian informs us that 36% of people aged 18-34 snoop on their partners’ mobile phones and other electronic devices if they suspect they are cheating on them. That percentage drops to around 26% for over-55s. The results are based on 2,000 responses from a survey carried out by a US dating website – hardly therefore a random sampling. But it then asks the questions: Do you think it’s acceptable to snoop in any form, and have you ever done so? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/28/have-you-snooped-on-partner Any takers??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm a bit surprised at a quality paper like the Guardian! More like something the Sun might get up to, but be that as it may I suppose it is a fair question to ask. Snooping is certainly a lot easier if the person or people you are scrutinising have all the modern paraphenalia such as an iphone, personal computer (laptop or notebook or similar), facebook account, etc. I don't like the idea of snooping one little bit, and would hate it if I thought somebody was snooping on me. Seems to me once you become a snooper, you're on the slippery slope to becoming an habitual one. Then you can't be too shocked if you find others are doing it to you. All a bit Kafkaesque and 1984 for me I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I don't do it on the bf since I can't understand any of the thai that is on his mobile phone even if I could figure out how to snoop on it. But he has checked my phone at times so I delete all sent and received SMSs and call calls sent and received. In a way I am pleased that he is still jealous of my nefarious activities as innocent as they may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Ok, the question is 'would you snoop on a lover if you thought he was cheating'? No! I hope not, at least not by the methods used by people dabbling in a lonely hearts club. Surely the kind of people one might meet via such means are going to run the gamut from those playing fair all the way to those not. It would hardly be surprising if many such people are just playing the field, whispering sweet nothings in your ear and swearing undying love whilst cheating wholesale. So how to narrow it down to those you hope you can trust? This is where building up a relationship comes in - that involves far more than who's hot in bed and who's not. A good relationship should include trust in the other person. We have discussed this before on the Board - white lies as against telling the truth, that sort of thing. Unfortunately my preferred means of 'snooping' which would be simply to ask the other person "did you" or "didn't you" would quite likely result in prevarication or fabrication or even downright lies, thus precipitating a downward spiral of distrust. In that situation many of us would no doubt think it time to walk away, but if that was not possible or was absolutely the last resort, and you were absolutely determined to get to the bottom of things, snooping via the means described in the Guardian might be justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 IMHO, snooping is only acceptable if there is a genuine and material cheating issue. So if you are in what both parties agree is strictly a 2 way relationship and one party IS cheating on the other, it's acceptable for the other party to snoop to verify this. Snooping, without there actually being any wrongdoing would be unacceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I agree, snooping for the sake of snooping is unethical. Even snooping because someone just suspects a partner may be cheating is questionable. Slightly off topic is snooping for reasons other than infidelity. I do know one chap whose bf was dealing drugs. The farang was too trustworthy and clueless even though others suspected the bf's activities. Snooping in a case like this is justified, although a better word might be "surveillance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Slightly off topic is snooping for reasons other than infidelity. I do know one chap whose bf was dealing drugs. The farang was too trustworthy and clueless even though others suspected the bf's activities. Snooping in a case like this is justified, although a better word might be "surveillance". Considering possession of drugs or a positive 'pee test' can land you in prison, and I expect anyone caught dealing will be very harshly sentenced, if you suspect your friend is doing that and if you really care about him (and you are sure he cares about YOU) I agree every effort should be made to head the awful consequences off at the pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorTose Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 IMHO, snooping is only acceptable if there is a genuine and material cheating issue. So if you are in what both parties agree is strictly a 2 way relationship and one party IS cheating on the other, it's acceptable for the other party to snoop to verify this. Snooping, without there actually being any wrongdoing would be unacceptable Exactly, so the real question should be when is snooping justified and how far should you go, not if you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Since I raised the question, I guess I should ‘fess up! If you’re in a committed relationship, even if you just think something may be going on with your partner and another guy, snooping is surely basically destructive. What do you gain out of it? If you check your partner’s mobile phone and find all sorts of loving messages from someone else, can you openly come out and confront him with it? After all, you have broken the bond of trust by snooping, whatever he might have been doing. But if you don’t confront him, like Othello you will thereafter have to confront your own demons. Jealousy, hurt pride and whatever usually start a destructive downward spiral. I am not now in a relationship. Once, when I first started to live in Bangkok, I had been in a longish relationship with a Chinese guy who did not live here. We had said we would both work to maintain the relationship, something made easier by the travel I had to do for my work. But we accepted that each of us could be free to indulge in casual encounters. One of the first guys I actually met up with here from the old gay.com site had so many similar interests to me that I knew we’d enjoy each other’s company. He had also been educated in England and so his English was 100% fluent. What I didn’t realise beforehand was he’d have such charisma that I was quickly hooked. But still we kept everything platonic, having dinner every night one week, chatting, talking about ourselves, laughing – just about everything except sex. Then I had to leave for a week, and part of that time was spent with my boyfriend. My feelings for him were still very strong, but we kept coming back to “the future” – how we could in fact stay together unless one moved to the other’s city? We came to no conclusion. I guess because neither of us wanted to break up. Yet, I found my mind was wandering more and more to the guy I had met here, and how perfect a match we seemed to be. On my return, that fledgling relationship blossomed and sex entered the equation. For a few weeks, all was wonderful. Eventually I started to detect a cooling off on his part. It was nothing he said or did; just something in the chemistry. We met less often. As this went on, I found myself completely torn. I wanted to be with him, I wanted the life together we had talked about, even if that meant ending my existing relationship. I wanted to know what had changed. Was it, as I expected, someone else? After some thought, I registered a second name and profile on gay.com. Sometimes I would see my friend there. Eventually I clicked on him. I can’t recall now what story I made up, but it doesn’t matter. The end result is that he thought he was chatting to a different person. What emerged rather stunned me. He was looking to start a relationship with someone in Europe because he would be leaving Thailand a couple of months later to start a 4-year post-graduate scholarship, something he had never even mentioned to me. Finally his actions started to make some sense. Plus he was Thai, and Thais, as we have discussed on this forum, will often shy away from difficult decisions. I continued to see him through the next few weeks, but it was never quite the same. Did I confront him? No, as I was not prepared to reveal my own duplicity. There was a period after he left when I wondered if there was any point trying to keep it going. But four years for me was far too long. I resumed my earlier relationship and we stayed together for a few more years. In this case, snooping did have one positive effect in that I learned the truth, and it had more to do with major changes to his life than with me and our fledgling relationship. If I learned anything, it was that until I understood Thais, there was no point in trying to second guess them. That was ten years ago – and I am still no nearer that understanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Thanks FH for a most interesting situation in which I am in full agreement snooping was 'beneficial'. A rather classy style of snooping too. Human nature is complex - why, some people don't seem to even fully know themselves. Once we add deviousness to the human condition - even nice guys can be devious (let alone con-men, murderers, child molesters and bankers!) - is it any wonder so many of us are taken for a ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If someone's bf/partner/love bunny is offering the availability of their ass on an open forum such as GayRomeo then I see no reason to not read and react to what they willingly post. I do know people who have multiple IDs on GR and use that to their advantage in numerous ways. To me, that is similar to the difference between stealing and finding items of value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I always tell the boyfriend that he can check my computer, phone, emails, etc anytime he wants. I also tell him I expect the same courtesy. The reason for this for me is that I don't really care if he is having sex with someone else as long as he is being honest. The honest factor is a big deal for me and once broken it is hard if not impossible to regain. I'll often ask the boyfriend who he is talking to (in Thai) and he will tell me a friend or his mother. I smile and arch my eyebrows and he hands me the phone and says, say hi to mama. I say hi and then he smiles and arches his eyebrows knowing that I was burned. He has done this 1000 times over the years and I can't imagine what he spends 2 hours talking with mama for, but he does. I can barely talk to someone for 2 minutes without wanting to hang up but he loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I can't imagine what he spends 2 hours talking with mama for, but he does. Why not ask him? What Thai boy doesn't love his mama? 2 hours does seem a bit excessive though. If both your bf and his mother can chat for 2 hours it doesn't look like they lead very busy lives. Does he have a job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 2 hours does seem a bit excessive though. Not only are a Thai and his mobile phone inseparable, the Thai language somehow seems to deem it essential that what takes a couple of minutes to say in English takes at least 20 in Thai. I often think Thai conversation has little to do with relatively short give-and-take verbal exchanges; it's a series of inordinately long monologues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thaiworthy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 . . . the Thai language somehow seems to deem it essential that what takes a couple of minutes to say in English takes at least 20 in Thai . . . Witnessed this many times myself. But I find it inconceivable that if you want said conversation translated into English, it then takes only nanoseconds and is usually one short sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogie Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Ah, I see - thank you for your observations FH and TW. So if a 2 minute conversation in English takes 20m in Thai, a 2 hour one spoken in Thai would take only 12m when condensed into English. Or, if you genuinely did need to talk for 2 hr in English, that'd equate to 20 hr in Thai - allowing for eating anf toilet breaks that's a full day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I don't think it's a language thing at all but simply that the Thais we hang out with and/or all Thais gab a lot. The Thai language phrases oftentimes are shorter than our English as they typically cut everything down to the bare essentials (often omitting subjects, objects, etc.). For example, "bpai nai" is Thai for "where are you going" and "bpen arai" is Thai for "what's the matter/problem?" Another example you've all heard is the word "ao" used in restaurants.....it means "I want" (but they skip the "I" part). Can't quite imagine going into a western restaurant and saying to the waiter "want cola" (we'd typically say "I would like to have..." or "I'll have..."). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thaiworthy Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Good point, Bob. The point I was making is better illustrated by an encounter I had at the True phone store at MBK. I wanted to find out why my voicemail wasn't working. They and the bf talked for about 5 minutes. I thought, "hey, how about cluing me into this conversation?" When I finally got their attention in mid-gabble, their explanation was 5 words long and didn't answer a damn thing! I have now come to the conclusion that it is too much work for them to translate into English. So they brush me off with something ineffective, poorly enunciated, and tragically short. I must be a mushroom. They keep me in the dark and feed me bullshit! The problem was eventually solved but is too damn long a story to type here. Like some Thais, I am too damn lazy! And of course, I should learn to speak Thai. --Frustrated in Bangkok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Does he have a job? Yes, ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
