Thais leaving Thailand

[Guest snapshot]

Didn't get a chance to reply to Rogie's question as the other thread was closed, presumably for touching on politics...

 

I don't know why Snapshot's BF's Thai contacts are wanting out - why not ask your BF next time you see him Snapshot? Presumably the only Thais with a realistic chance of getting a work permit in Australia are those with expertise the Aussies themselves are in need of.

It's not a recent thing. I've been hearing about it for months. Both with my previous Thai boyfriend and now with my current one.

 

Thais hear about their friends or acquaintances having done well overseas and call them up wanting advice on how to set out on the same path.

 

There are some consistent themes over the last several months to a year. The economy is doing poorly in Bangkok. It's getting harder to make money. The government isn't doing a good job managing the economy. People aren't spending as much. The mood is down and people aren't as happy. So they want a way out.

 

My ex-BF, who I remain close friends with, fields a lot of these calls as he has done pretty well for himself and comes from a more rough and tumble background and hence, has a more rough and tumble network.

 

My current BF also gets quite a few of these calls. Some from friends wanting to know about opportunities abroad. Some from parents wanting to send their kids here.

 

There's a massive established Thai community here now. There's already more Thais here than there are in some of Thailand's smaller cities, like Khon Kaen. Maybe more than Pattaya too.

 

I reckon one day soon there will be more Thais here than there are in Chiang Mai.

 

As for getting a visa to stay in Australia... That's easy for Thais. Most of the ones I know come here on a student visa, some genuinely (i.e. my BF actually came here to study university previously) and some less than genuine (i.e. they study but their real motive is to work - more than their allocated hours - and eventually stay here).

 

Some of them remain in fairly lowly deadbeat jobs... waitering, cooking, cleaning etc. Some go on to do well and earn a decent living. Others make a serious go of it and become enormously successful.

 

I have friends who were born here and got the same high-quality education I got, fantastic opportunity, yet they're still making a shitty $80k/year or something mediocre. Contrast this with Thais who landed here piss poor and now make five or ten times what the average Aussie white collar worker makes.

 

I love seeing Thais who landed here 4, 5 or 10 years ago with no transferable skills or qualifications and $100 in their pocket go on to rake in $10k to $20k a week. Rugged entrepreneurs with a lot of drive, determination and little to lose. You see them set up one business after another. I'm quite happy to throw cash at them because I know $50k in their hands becomes $100k a few months later and probably more further down the track.

[ChristianPFC]

There's a massive established Thai community here now. There's already more Thais here than there are in some of Thailand's smaller cities, like Khon Kaen. Maybe more than Pattaya too.

 

Largest Thai community outside Thailand is about 80,000 in Los Angeles.

http://en.wikipedia....wn,_Los_Angeles

Khon Kaen 113,754 (sic!)

Pattaya exceeding 100,000 (wikipedia)

[Guest fountainhall]


There are some consistent themes over the last several months to a year. The economy is doing poorly in Bangkok. It's getting harder to make money. The government isn't doing a good job managing the economy. People aren't spending as much. The mood is down and people aren't as happy. So they want a way out.

 

That, with respect Mr. Snapshot, is misguided oversimplification. This from Bloomberg of August 20 -

 

Today’s report showed GDP increased 4.2 percent in the three months through June from a year earlier, after expanding a revised 0.4 percent in the previous quarter, the government agency said. That exceeded all 16 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey that had a median prediction of a 3.1 percent rise.

http://www.bloomberg...lobal-woes.html

 

Yet your insights into life in Australia are always illuminating. I have no doubt you are correct in saying that there are Thais here who want to better themselves abroad and are seeking such opportunities. And I know full well there is a thriving Thai community amongst two million or so Asians living in Australia. For rich Thais getting an Australian visa is, as you suggest, easy. For students with guaranteed places at University and the means to support themselves (often with extended family ties already in Australia), it is also relatively easy. But for the people whom you describe in your post, those “who landed here piss poor”, Australia is now one of the most difficult countries for which to obtain any kind of visa!

 


There's a massive established Thai community here now. There's already more Thais here than there are in some of Thailand's smaller cities, like Khon Kaen . . . I reckon one day soon there will be more Thais here than there are in Chiang Mai.

 

As ChristianPFC has already pointed out, your estimates verge considerably on the over-generous side. According to the official statistics issued by the Australian government, at the 2006 census there were 32,747 “Thailand-born” people in Australia. ChristianPFC gave the population of Khon Kaen. Chiang Mai, for your information, has nearly 150,000!

 


I have friends who were born here and got the same high-quality education I got, fantastic opportunity, yet they're still making a shitty $80k/year or something mediocre

 

Well, even that’s a helluva lot better than the vast majority of Thais in Australia. To put that into some kind of reasonable perspective, of the 32,747 I mentioned, approx. 15,500 were working. They earned a median weekly income of A$313 in 2006. That is all of A$16,276 per annum.

 

At the time of the 2006 Census, the median individual weekly income for the Thailand-born in Australia aged 15 years and over was $313, compared with $431 for all overseas-born and $488 for all Australia-born. The total Australian population had a median individual weekly income of $466.

 

http://www.immi.gov....on/thailand.htm

 

I believe average weekly rates have increased by approx. 25% since then and so the annual figure should therefore be closer to A$20K. Even so, that is still a far more reasonable definition of “mediocre” than A$80K, don't you think? But then, you and your Australian friend Beachlover clearly have different values and different ideas of what constitutes mediocrity.

[Guest snapshot]

Largest Thai community outside Thailand is about 80,000 in Los Angeles.

http://en.wikipedia....wn,_Los_Angeles

Khon Kaen 113,754 (sic!)

Pattaya exceeding 100,000 (wikipedia)

 

Interesting! Someone posted that same Wikipedia link on a thread in another forum: http://www.sawatdee-...oad-t25936.html

 

I didn't know Wikipedia had pages on Thai Town so I Googled Sydney's ThaiTown and came up with this: http://en.wikipedia....ai_Town,_Sydney

 

It says, "Sydney has the highest population of Thais in Australia with a population of 100,000"... I don't know how accurate or up to date that figure is though.

 

That, with respect Mr. Snapshot, is misguided oversimplification. This from Bloomberg of August 20

That's because I'm just repeating what I'm hearing Thais say, as I explained in my post. Or more accurately, what my BF says Thais say. I don't actually know precisely how the economy in Bangkok is going... I don't work there and haven't looked it up as you have.

 

For rich Thais getting an Australian visa is, as you suggest, easy. For students with guaranteed places at University and the means to support themselves (often with extended family ties already in Australia), it is also relatively easy. But for the people whom you describe in your post, those “who landed here piss poor”, Australia is now one of the most difficult countries for which to obtain any kind of visa!

Look... before and now is a different matter. Before... I think it must've been bloody easy because I know tonnes of Thais who weren't rich or had guaranteed places at university who got in.

 

Now... I'm aware it's gotten harder but don't know the details. I'm not sure if the same tricks still work as easily.

 

As ChristianPFC has already pointed out, your estimates verge considerably on the over-generous side. According to the official statistics issued by the Australian government, at the 2006 census there were 32,747 “Thailand-born” people in Australia. ChristianPFC gave the population of Khon Kaen. Chiang Mai, for your information, has nearly 150,000!

That figure you quote is from 2006, practically ancient history. The number of Thais has absolutely exploded in recent years. It seems to be growing exponentially. It's common to hear people talking Thai in all sorts of suburbs now, not just around ThaiTown. I'm serious. It's like an invasion.

 

I think it's because there's such an established Thai community with Thai businesses, amenities, services and such here now. They feel more comfortable and are more inclined to stay here instead of going back to Thailand. And obviously, the growing reputation of how much of a utopia "Thailand down under" is probably feeds that migration further.

 

Also, Wikipedia states 100,000+ Thais in Sydney, though I don't know when/where that figure is from or how accurate it is.

 

Well, even that’s a helluva lot better than the vast majority of Thais in Australia. To put that into some kind of reasonable perspective, of the 32,747 I mentioned, approx. 15,500 were working. They earned a median weekly income of A$313 in 2006. That is all of A$16,276 per annum.

Ok... I'm not going to tell you you're wrong but I'm going to question your faith in the accuracy of those stats.

 

Firstly, yes, lots and lots of Thais here are earning low incomes, working low-skilled jobs like cooking, cleaning and waitering. I already said that before.

 

However, the Thais working in those sort of jobs are renowned here for working "cash in hand" and are a major contributor to the "black economy" of undeclared and untaxed income. They also have a reputation for working long hours - 7 days a week - to the point where although they earn a low hourly rate, they end up making a liveable income, maybe $1,000 to $2,000 a week. Keep in mind Sydney's one of the most expensive cities in the world for cost of living.

 

Secondly, many of the businesses they open are also the types of businesses where understating your income is easy - ones with lots of small cash transactions. Retail, hospitality, food and beverage, health and beauty.

 

That's one of the challenges I have with my business partners. They complain a lot about the high taxes here. I remind them of their comments about this being a better place to make money and nicer place to live. I also remind them of the strong legal framework and fantastic stability they enjoy in this economy, as opposed to the sh*t you'd have to deal with operating in Thailand. All that being the reasons higher taxes than they are used to back home are justified. That and the fact that if you're raking in $7k to $10k a week, trying to make more by evading taxes is exceptionally greedy.

[Guest fountainhall]

That figure you quote is from 2006, practically ancient history. The number of Thais has absolutely exploded in recent years . . . Ok... I'm not going to tell you you're wrong but I'm going to question your faith in the accuracy of those stats . . . Look... before and now is a different matter. Now... I'm aware it's gotten harder but don't know the details. I'm not sure if the same tricks still work as easily.

 

Excuse me, but 5 years is not exactly a long period for Immigration figures to “explode”, the more so given the increasing difficulty of obtaining visas, a point you do acknowledge in your latest post – as opposed to the “ease” which you suggested in your first post. Why make definite statements in one post (and not only about visas) only to retract them in a second?

 

I'm delighted, though, you are not calling me wrong because if so, you would actually be calling the official Australian government Department of Immigration and Citizenship published statistics wrong! That, as no doubt you will have noticed, is the site I quoted!

 

It says, "Sydney has the highest population of Thais in Australia with a population of 100,000"... I don't know how accurate or up to date that figure is though.

 

Again, my figures are the official government figures from the 2006 census, the latest ones to be published. I note you prefer to believe figures in wikipedia which have no source attribution. And since, unlike your first post, you admit you don't know the figures, might I respectfully suggest that it would be of more interest to readers not to make inaccurate comparisons.

 

Now, I do accept that there will have been growth since 2006. Again according to official statistics, the growth between the 2001 and 2006 census results was 39%. That would result in approx. 45,000 now. Even if the growth was somewhat greater, I'm sure you'll agree we are still a long way from the population of Khon Kaen and Chiang Mai, for that would have required an increase of almost 250%.

 

That and the fact that if you're raking in $7k to $10k a week, trying to make more by evading taxes is exceptionally greedy.

 

I'll pass on that remark, other than to say the number of people in Sydney making that kind of weekly salary is extremely limited. I know several hard-working professionals in specialised fields in Sydney who have never seen that level of salary. You obviously move in elevated circles. Good on you all.

[Guest snapshot]

Not sure what point you're trying to make about the number of Thai people in Sydney here FH... Neither you or I have a current figure (2011/2012) that is accurate. There's not much to go off other than a few less relevant stats and gut feel. Gut feel tends to be more accurate when you're on the ground here.

 

Excuse me, but 5 years is not exactly a long period for Immigration figures to “explode”

Six years to be precise. And six years is a long time.

 

To give you some perspective, I still remember when the first Thai massage place (that I know of) opened in the CBD around 2006, plus or minus a year. Before that there were none that I knew of. Now there must be over 50 Thai massage places within the CBD. You can hardly walk a block without passing one, sometimes 3-4 in the same block. Not only that. They're not just in the city anymore. There's not a single suburb I've been through that doesn't have one. Many suburbs have several. In some suburban shopping strips, you'll see 3-4 of them within a 500m radius.

 

I lived in Sydney in 2006. Walking around then, I didn't notice too many Thai people. On the streets, in shops, in restaurants, bars and such. Now, they're absolutely everywhere. You need to have lived here in that period to know how ridiculously fast the population has grown.

 

the more so given the increasing difficulty of obtaining visas, a point you do acknowledge in your latest post – as opposed to the “ease” which you suggested in your first post. Why make definite statements in one post (and not only about visas) only to retract them in a second?

You're getting the time frame mixed up. The level of difficulty has really only increased in the last 12 months or so. And from what I've heard, that's mainly been in terms of getting PR or the more stable, long-term visas. I.e. the sort of thing an immigrant would look for after they've been here a few years.

 

As far as I know, nothing significant has changed in terms of getting a student visa, which is the sort of thing they would use to first get here. Although the government has cracked down on private colleges to ensure the students are attending classes (a condition of the student visa) and regularly raids businesses to check for illegal workers or students working more hours than they're allowed.

 

I noticed the site you refer to with stats from 2006 says this...

 

"New South Wales had the largest number with 12 290"

 

12,290? Now... if you come to Sydney, spend some time here and get out and about, you'll see it's brazenly obvious there are many times that number of Thais living in Sydney. I'm serious, come to Sydney, visit your friends and pig out on the food or whatever, but you'll see exactly what I describe above. You can even do your counting thing again... I guarantee you'll exceed 50.

 

Also, I'm curious as to whether immigrants are less accurate when they fill in their census form. My own parents are reluctant to be entirely honest when filling it out for fear of... whatever it is they're paranoid of.

 

know several hard-working professionals in specialised fields

I used to think that but my perspective has changed quite a bit in the last year.

 

I've been in professional services most of my working life. I know in the professional services, you can earn a wonderful income but you do work hard for what you earn and you're constantly stretching your brain.

 

On the other hand, some of the businesses I've seen and setup by immigrants make what I do seem like too much effort. Granted, most make an average income. But some of them really hit the right spot. You setup one business successfully, make sure it's operating well, delegate and systemise well and leave it to run itself (or with minimal supervision taking up little of your time). It nets $2k a week.

 

That's a nice mix and it seems to work. So a year later you do it again somewhere else. Then you're making $4k week from two businesses. So you do it again... you get the idea. Pretty soon you've got a string of businesses like this and all you do is troop in at the end of the day to count the money. The rest of the time you're chit chatting with friends or sipping coffee. Back when I was more closely involved building up my business, I spent 10-12 hrs a day in the office!

 

Of course, when you're growing that quickly, especially with businesses that require outlays of $100k up to $1 million to fit out and setup, you need capital. So you go to entrepreneurs who've already setup and have been raking it in for a couple of years, have more cash than they know what to do with and can't be arsed to do the hard work anymore... and the cycle continues.

[Guest fountainhall]

Now... if you come to Sydney, spend some time here and get out and about, you'll see it's brazenly obvious there are many times that number of Thais living in Sydney. I'm serious, come to Sydney, visit your friends and pig out on the food or whatever, but you'll see exactly what I describe above. You can even do your counting thing again... I guarantee you'll exceed 50.

 

I generally stay with friends in Sydney every year. Yes, you are correct - I see a helluva lot of Asians. But without speaking to each and every one, I would have difficulty telling some Thais from, for example, Laos and Filipinos. To base statistics on assumed headcount is somewhat pointless.

 

And what, I wonder, is a young businessman who likes to get up early doing making posts at almost 3:00 in the morning Sydney-time?

[Bob]

And what, I wonder, is a young businessman who likes to get up early doing making posts at almost 3:00 in the morning Sydney-time?

 

Taking photos of hotels he hasn't visited?

[Guest snapshot]

I generally stay with friends in Sydney every year. Yes, you are correct - I see a helluva lot of Asians. But without speaking to each and every one, I would have difficulty telling some Thais from, for example, Laos and Filipinos. To base statistics on assumed headcount is somewhat pointless.

 

And what, I wonder, is a young businessman who likes to get up early doing making posts at almost 3:00 in the morning Sydney-time?

Yes, Sydney's always had a lot of Asians but it's the fast rising proportion of Thais in that group which I've noticed.

 

I can usually tell between Thais and other Asians by look. But if you can't tell by look then what gives them away most easily is when they speak to each other. If you spend a lot of time in restaurants, cafes, bars trains and on the street, you'll notice Thai has become one of the more commonly spoken languages here! After English, I think Thai, Mandarin and Cantonese are the languages I hear most now. Before it was just Mandarin and Canto. Not much Thai being spoken around the place.

 

I don't really get up early anymore... I'm semi-retired but oversee a lot of things and last night I had to go check on a construction site middle of the night so no point sleeping until that was done and out of my head. I'm off now so will be a few days before you can continue your lovably neurotic inquisition.

[Guest fountainhall]

After English, I think Thai, Mandarin and Cantonese are the languages I hear most now. Before it was just Mandarin and Canto.

 

You have vastly more experience of Sydney than I. As a regular visitor, I certainly hear a lot of Mandarin and Cantonese. But if you are defining numbers by speech, I seem to hear a lot more Filipino accents and Tagalog than Thai on my trips.

[Guest snapshot]

Hmmm.... I hear a lot of Filipinos as well. But probably hear more Thais than Filipinos these days. 

 

On the topic of Thais leaving Thailand, I don't know if it's because I have a lot more exposure to these people now than I did before, but I swear, recently it's been like a wave turning into a tsunami.

 

With the number of "fresh off the boat" Thais I'm coming across, it almost feels like they're going to number more than Aussies soon. 

 

One thing I didn't mention before on this thread is one of the most common reasons Thais leave Thailand and something you won't hear talked about much is the degree to which Thai society is quite class oriented and against class mobility. 

 

You get a fairly working class Thai and no matter how financially successful they become within reason, they just won't get a certain level of respect in Thailand. They might be successful but they get sick of being looked down on and decide to pack bags and go somewhere where they can have a fresh start where their own success is the only determination of respect and where they sit in society.