Myanmar's Opening Up - A Risk to Thai Tourism?

[Guest fountainhall]

Another article in the Bangkok Post suggests that -

 

Myanmar's rapidly growing tourism sector could put Thailand's position as a major regional gateway at risk.

 

The comments came as Myanmar's tourism minister U Htay Aung told the Sasin Bangkok Forum yesterday that his country was ramping up its tourism infrastructure to cope with a sharp rise in the number of visitors.

 

He conceded that the Myanmar tourism industry was still in its infancy, but pointed to rapidly increasing visitor numbers.

 

http://www.bangkokpo...mar-travel-boom

 

These numbers are clearly infinitesimal compared to Thailand’s. And replacing Suvarnabhumi as a “gateway” is surely mere fantasy, as it will take well over a decade – at least - for Myanmar’s infrastructure to be anywhere comparable, despite the country’s intention to build a new airport.

 

More likely, in my view, Myanmar may soon start taking some tourists away from Thai beach resorts. I know a Hong Kong developer who recently purchased an entire beach in Myanmar. That will no doubt be dotted with hotels and other tourism paraphernalia within 3 or so years - most at the high-end of the market. Pristine beaches (if they stay that way), lower prices and less polluted water may well become more of an attraction than Phuket or Samui.

[Rogie]

As a confirmed Burma-phile I found that BP article of interest. Attempts to woo foreign tourists is nothing new. The government mounted a Visit Mynamar campaign in 1997. That was pretty feeble and rightly criticised by many inside and outsside the country. A bit too early to know whether the current Burmese tourism minister will prove true to his word. The country has suffered too long from top-down rule by a small clique of unelected army Burmans together with on-going civil war in many parts of the country. U Htay Aung may be serious and honest (I have no idea whether he is or not), but unless some element of genuine entrepreneurship can be encouraged it will fail.

 

I would be concerned in the way the country's tourist infrastructure is developed. I don't like the sound of that Hong Kong developer - to my mind Burma would be better suited by having some domestic entrepreneurs holding the reins, not foreigners. Having said that Burma is already choc-a-bloc with Chinese foreign money and labour, so I suppopse that is a risk a developing country will have to take until the spirit of entrepreneurship can blossom from within.

 

Another question: are foreigners likely to be more or less corrupt that the Burmese when it comes to the thorny issue of sensitive development that respects the landscape, or will it become just one big landgrab as they try turfing innocent local smallholders off their land as happened in other countries?

 

For my money Samui and Phuket are living on borrowed time already. I am sick and tired of reading of yet another story of tourists in Phuket menaced by taxi drivers, mugged and even killed, and fleeced by jetski and motorcycle hire operators in cahouts with the police.

[Guest fountainhall]

I don't like the sound of that Hong Kong developer

 

I share your concerns. But I should have pointed out that the developer in question is a westerner with a good track record in local participation and green issues. He also has financed and endows several schools in poorer parts of Asia. But he is still in the business to make profits, and I know no more than that.

[Rogie]

Sounds encouraging FH. Let's hope the eyes of the world will be on Myanmar to the extent big projects are transparent and not a result of shady deals (call me a hopeless romantic perhaps - I know that's almost unheard of!).

[TotallyOz]

I had a few discussions with friends about this and they all love Burma. They think it has great potential and they said they were treated with great kindness when they visited. They did say that the infrastructure in place has a long way to go and that it is not as easy to get around as Thailand but the people are fantastic.

[KhorTose]

Burma could easily surpass Thailand as a tourist place for both gays and straights. However, the present government has madehomosexuality an illegal activity. punishable by fine or up to ten years in jail. AYOR until this law changes. However, they also have laws against prostitution of women, but this occurs everywhere in Myanmar.

[Guest fountainhall]

So I guess that puts the country in the same boat as Singapore and Malaysia where homosexuality is also an illegal activity! Mind you, given the choice, I'd probably prefer a couple of years in a Singapore jail to ten years in one in Yangon.

 

As a former British colony, its laws are yet another relic of 19th century Victorian surface morality in a country where no such distinctions were made until that time.

 

Just read an interesting article which talks about the hidden language used by gay people, mostly investing old words and phrases with new meanings. This helps create a genuine gay community and acts as a defence against homophobia.

 

Pagan yauk bu la? (Have you been to Pagan?) England la? (England?) In gayslang, geographical terms are also subverted. ‘Having been to Pagan’means ‘being gay’, deriving from a bridge in Yangon that doubles as a popular gay hang out. ‘Being England’means ‘going first’ as the receptive partner in gay male sexual intercourse . . .

 

Demand for new words and terminology adopted reflects the changing culture of the gay community, as well as cultural shifts in Burma generally. One recent introduction to the language is the term cake moe poe thin tan (baking training), which means group sex. As group sex is new to Burmese gay culture, a term for it has only recently been needed.

 

One of the writers commenting on the article gives another example -

 

I’m fascinated by the use of the word ’tissue’ in Burmese gay slang. From my understanding, a ’tissue’ is a mildly derogatory term used to describe a one-night stand. Like you use a tissue to blow your nose and then throw it away, the same as with a one-night stand who you never see/meet again.

 

It goes further. A silver tissue is someone who you meet with for sex from time to time; a gold tissue is a keeper. Even a gold tissue, however, is still a tissue, not equivalent to a partner.

http://asiapacific.a...slang-in-burma/

[Rogie]

Group sex in Burma

 

atishoo. atishoo, they all go down . . .

[Guest fountainhall]

Wonder how many of those apprentice bakers have been to England?

[Rogie]

Those bakers sure do get around.

 

Here's a few more countries where they're only too happy to demonstrate their baking skills:

 

France la? Condom! ...ok?

Greece la? Let's not do anything too taxing!

Australia la? Mutton dressed as lamb

Cuba la? Fancy a smoke?

Thailand la? Bondage

German la? I don't like it up me!!

Holland la? Mutual masturbation

Italy la? Vanilla sex

Zimbabwe la? Watersports with a full bladder

Zambia la? Similar to above

Canada la? I like to be mounted . . .

America la? Fancy a 'big Mac'?

[billyhouston]

Earlier this year, when I asked reception at Traders whether it would be a problem if I stayed with Shan bf, they looked at me as though I was stupid and asked 'Why should it be a problem?' We also checked in at Park Royal without any comment and were well treated.

One problem in Yangon at the moment is the increased prices these establishments are able to demand!

[KhorTose]

Hello billy and thanks for the update. The rising prices may. have a good side in that many in the military own stock in these places. The lure of the money to be made may keep them from rocking the boat and going back on the new democracy movement. But then, I've always been a dreamer. What ever happened to Josan, the government tout who used to post here? I do hope the boy has not lost his job .

[billyhouston]

Another problem, which was also evident, was the flood of spivs and sharks whose motto was 'Ask not what you can do for Myanmar* but what Myanmar can do for you'. (with apologies to JFK) A particularly obnoxious UN employee, from Australia but born in UK, seated himself next to me on the return flight and all he could talk about was using the country to increase his salary..... by writing a PhD thesis on it. He couldn't name the President and assured me that there had never been a Burmese Secretary General of the UN.

I fear that unrestrained 'development' will only line the pockets of the 'haves' and leave the 'have-nots' worse off than they are now. Nothing that the 'boungbe chut' have done is irreversible and the real test will be at the next general election, if there is one. What is happening in Kachin and (especially Northern) Shan, both beautiful places, does not inspire confidence. I may be cynical but I still fear for the ordinary people, especially the hilltribes.

 

*Myanmar = abbreviation for my preferred term 'The Union of Burma'

boungbe chut = literally 'men who have taken off their trousers' but meaning 'military in civvies'.

[Rogie]

I was interested to see you refer to the Traders Hotel in your post Billy.

 

This 500 room hotel is massive. It wouldn't warrant a second glance in Bangkok, but in Rangoon it really sticks out! Here's photo I took of it in May. I've never been inside it as it's not the kind of place I like to stay. I prefer small, cheaper places as I don't have much money! But in all honesty even if I was flush I don't think I could see myself staying in that kind of hotel.

 

My old (2000) Burma guidebook says it's owned by the Shangri-La chain. That sounds nice but means nothing to me. I don't know if there is any military involvement in its ownership.

 

Rooms were quoted in 2000 at between US$ 90 and $120 + 20% tax and service (for comparison, a room in a back-packer hotel would have cost around $10). I expect they are a lot more now, especially, as other posters have said, if prices are going up owing to increased demand.

 

[KhorTose]

 

*Myanmar = abbreviation for my preferred term 'The Union of Burma'

boungbe chut = literally 'men who have taken off their trousers' but meaning 'military in civvies'.

 

I still call it Burma too. Thanks for the term (boungbe chut) and the definition. Thailand says it is going to repatriate the Karen and Shan communities in Thailand back to Burma. In light of your fears for the Kachin and the Shan people do you think this is will be a disaster for these people?

[Guest fountainhall]

in all honesty even if I was flush I don't think I could see myself staying in that kind of hotel.

 

Shangri-La is a luxury hotel chain with properties all around Asia which is starting to expand into other continents. I find they are often a bit over–the-top décor-wise – but nice if you can afford it, I suppose.

 

Traders is their one-step-down brand – as Courtyard is to Marriott and Crowne Plaza to the Intercontinental Group. Their rooms are less glamorous and much smaller. I have not stayed in that particular Traders Hotel, but have at those in Beijing and Hong Kong and find them excellent.

 

Like most major hotel groups, I suspect many individual properties are owned by investment and other companies, with Shangri-La having the management contract and only a small stake. The Yangon property actually has 272 rooms – so a medium-size hotel in most cities, but a monster in Yangon! I see that it is undergoing a major renovation. So presumably it has been open for some years, maybe originally under a different name. And I guess there is a good chance the army has an investment position.

[Rogie]

The Yangon property actually has 272 rooms – so a medium-size hotel in most cities, but a monster in Yangon! I see that it is undergoing a major renovation. So presumably it has been open for some years, maybe originally under a different name. .

 

Thanks for explaining about the hotel branding. My description of the Traders as having 500 rooms was taken from the same guide book I quoted prices from (Lonely Planet, 7th ed. 2000) so unless they got it wrong maybe they revamped the rooms to make them larger - knock a few interconnecting walls down? 272 is just over half of 500! The write-up inplies it is fairly new so built sometime in the late 90's I expect, and it's always been called Traders Hotel as fas as I know.

[Rogie]

What is happening in Kachin and (especially Northern) Shan, both beautiful places, does not inspire confidence. I may be cynical but I still fear for the ordinary people, especially the hilltribes.

 

boungbe chut = literally 'men who have taken off their trousers' but meaning 'military in civvies'.

 

Thailand says it is going to repatriate the Karen and Shan communities in Thailand back to Burma. In light of your fears for the Kachin and the Shan people do you think this is will be a disaster for these people?

 

Count me in as a fan of boungbe chut too (the term, not the person!)

 

Kachin state is the most northerly one in Burma, bordering China and India, and difficult to get to, unless you fly I suppose, and I know nothing about that region of the country.

 

The most relevant border crossing from Thailand to (eastern) Burma is at Mae Sai. The one a lot further south at Mae Sot (if it's currently open) is only for day crossings and takes you into Mon state, and you have to be back before nightfall. Mae Sai takes you into Shan state, but I have never used that one. Do you think there is any chance of any further border crossings opening up in future? The reason I ask is hopefully the more accessible to outsiders the more remote areas in Burma become, that increases the likelihood of better treatment for their inhabitants and those refugees who might in future be repatriated.

[billyhouston]

When I first stopped at Traders in 2001 it was about $50/night and that increased very gradually to about $80 in 2011. I had rooms at that rate in January 2012 but since then it has gone mad. For January 2013 they want $277 so I shall be staying elsewhere. The location is great and although the hotel had not had a refurbishment since opening, until this year, the rooms were clean and the staff were great. Outside of Yangon I prefer to stay in smaller hotels though, in all honesty, in most places that's the only choice. Of all the small hotels, my favourite is the Thiri Marlar in (New) Bagan. Breakfast on the roof, or dinner for that matter, is amazing as you look out across all those 13th century temples.

 

Thailand has never treated those who have fled across the border as they should have done. Thais have ruthlessly exploited these vulnerable people and the worst offenders are.... the boys in brown. There are many Shan working in and around the night market in CM, all of whom have to pay 'tea money'. A friend who failed to do so was caught, arrested and thrown in the slammer before being taken to court and heavily fined. I asked him how someone could tell who was and was not paying and he told me that you got a paper, to show where needed! The country does not want these people there and yet the construction business and the restaurant business would fall apart (certainly in the north) without them. The fighting in Kachin and Shan makes it unsafe for them to be 'repatriated' and it's a disgrace that it's even suggested.

 

Some years ago while trekking north east of Kengtung I visited a remote village of the Ann people. They don't own land and, having to work on the land for other people, are the poorest of the poor. Meeting with some of the 'elders' I guessed that they were about my age but discovered that they were a little over half that. It's a very hard life they lead. When questioned, my guide explained that people such as me going to that village meant that the military would not demand unpaid labour from them as happened with other villages. 'Unpaid labour and bring your own food and drink.' The government writ did not run in this area and we actually had to go through Burmese immigration in Kengtung before going there.

 

There are lots of crossings between Mae Sai and Mae Sot... and you don't need a passport or visa, but don't get caught. The region between Taunggyi and Kentung has been off-limits to foreigners for more than 50 years so many people there have never seen a foreigner 'in the flesh'. No electric, no gas, no running water and you cook over a wood fire. Some people with generators have satellite internet connections and we use video chat. It is my dearest wish that this region will become accessible to foreigners but I don't see this in the near future. Alas, the better treatment of locals will have to come before the areas open up. There is also the cultivation of poppy to consider. The government, officially at least, condemns this but their policies force it on people and, then, the government taxes the opium! It amuses me to point out that their tax rate is less than the basic rate (20%) in UK and, for that, their poppy crop is protected.

 

Apologies for the long post. I have tried to respond to points raised but I'm afraid that the treatment of the hilltribes in general, and the Shan in particular, causes me to get on my soapbox. Murder, rape and pillage are instruments of government policy, still, in the hilltribe areas.

[Rogie]

When I first stopped at Traders in 2001 it was about $50/night and that increased very gradually to about $80 in 2011. I had rooms at that rate in January 2012 but since then it has gone mad. For January 2013 they want $277 so I shall be staying elsewhere.

 

The rates I quoted were the 'advertised tariff' and, according to the guidebook, guests usually paid less than this, so your experience bears that out.

 

Apologies for the long post. I have tried to respond to points raised but I'm afraid that the treatment of the hilltribes in general, and the Shan in particular, causes me to get on my soapbox. Murder, rape and pillage are instruments of government policy, still, in the hilltribe areas.

 

No apology warranted Billy! I wish we had more posters getting on their soapboxes if they could match your most informative post in terms of sincerity. I must apologise for a couple of flippant posts I made earlier, I hope nobody took offence. The plight of the ethnic groups in Burma looks like continuing for quite some time to come. Wouldn't it have been great if Shan people in Chiang Mai and other towns in Thailand had been treated fairly by all sections of the Thai population. I know we hear that the police are not paid a decent wage and have to resort to padding out their income by shady means, but some of their activities really are pathetic. That sort of thing reminds me of nature programmes where the wolf pack are chasing a herd of buffalo and they zero in on the weakest one, usually a poor little calf, separate it from its mother and rip it to shreds. That's mother nature for you, can't do much about that, but it seems some humans haven't heard of the 'c' word - civilisation.

[KhorTose]

Thank you Billy. I agree with Rogie, please get on and stay on that soapbox as I appreciate the information and understand the compassion.