More Arabs in Pattaya than Americans?

[TotallyOz]

I have talked to several business owners who have said very clearly that they have more Arab customers than they do Americans. This may or may not bother others. For me, I don't care as long as the places in Pattaya are getting business.

 

Each person said that this is not a low season thing but a trend over the last year or so.

 

I know that part of this has to do with the horrible economy that the USA currently has and part may be the high cost and long distance of the airfare. I have had several really nice conversations with people from the Middle East and they have told me the prices they are paying for their airline tickets and it was more expensive than I paid. But, they also say this area is great as it is a quick flight for them.

 

For most from the USA, getting to Thailand is at least 20 hours or more.

 

I am sure others have seen the shift in tourists. I am curious if this trend shows the slower traffic of those from Europe?

[Bob]

I'm almost never around Pattaya but I do recall my last two visits seeing a whole lot of arabs just north of the Sunee Plaza area. Didn't bother me but I do recall feeling a bit uncomfortable a few times when a groups of arab men sitting outside a store or building would really stare you down in an unfriendly manner when you walked by. I don't think it was either my imagination or personal prejudices (although I must say a lot of them looked like Yassir Arafat.....).

[mahjongguy]

- If you actually meant Americans, they've always been a fairly small slice of the tourist and ex-pat numbers. UK and EU are the majority westerners.

 

- The number of Arabs, Indians, and Iranians has grown in a very noticeable way, but demographics are always evolving. That's normal. The only thing that has puzzled me is that so many of the people in this category are young-ish, and could not possibly have longstay visas.

[Rogie]

I have had several really nice conversations with people from the Middle East and they have told me . . .

 

The only thing that has puzzled me is that so many of the people in this category are young-ish, and could not possibly have longstay visas.

 

The only way to be sure is to ask! I would love to have the confidence to do just that.

 

Funny thing is, I might quite possibly go out of my way and take the time to speak to any friendly-looking local when I am a visitor in their country, but if I were to meet that same person in a neutral (or third-party country, so-to-speak), I wouldn't. Queer!

[Guest takeaway77]

The arrival of Arabs in Pattaya is an interesting development. Based on my experiences traveling in Arabic-speaking countries, this has all sorts of potential implications from a sexual orientation perspective.

[Rogie]

The arrival of Arabs in Pattaya is an interesting development. Based on my experiences traveling in Arabic-speaking countries, this has all sorts of potential implications from a sexual orientation perspective.

 

Has anyone seen any Arabs in host bars or go-go bars in the usual gay areas? Michael say he has spoken to bar owners and they have. (More specifically he say there are more Arabs than Americans, but he does not specify exactly where). Whilst it is true they would appear to be more numerous and quite high-profile my impression is they stick with their companions and mind their own business.

[Guest fountainhall]

Based on my experiences traveling in Arabic-speaking countries, this has all sorts of potential implications from a sexual orientation perspective.

 

Could you be more specific? I'd love to hear your views.

[Guest takeaway77]

What I mean is, in Arabic-speaking countries, the social, cultural and legal prohibitions against sexual relations between men are incredibly strong. However, again based on personal experience, it is quite common for men to have sexual relations with other men in these same countires. This appears to take place across the socioeconomic spectrum and is done discreetly. So, I'm wondering how this might all play out in a gay resort such as Pattaya and in particular Sunee.

[Guest thaiworthy]

What I mean is, in Arabic-speaking countries, the social, cultural and legal prohibitions against sexual relations between men are incredibly strong. However, again based on personal experience, it is quite common for men to have sexual relations with other men in these same countires. This appears to take place across the socioeconomic spectrum and is done discreetly.

 

Sounds horribly hypocritical to me.

 

So, I'm wondering how this might all play out in a gay resort such as Pattaya and in particular Sunee.

 

"Don't do as I do, do as I say."

[Guest fountainhall]

I'm wondering how this might all play out in a gay resort such as Pattaya and in particular Sunee.

 

From what I have read in various forums, it seems there are not many from Arab nations attending bars in Pattaya. But then I am rarely there, and so that is merely a second hand observation.

[Guest sydneyboy]

I think Arabs are cute.

[Rogie]

So did Lawrence of Arabia (discussed in the Peter O'Toole topic in the Beer Bar)

[KhorTose]

Sounds horribly hypocritical to me.

"Don't do as I do, do as I say."

 

It is hypocritical to the Western way of thinking, but you have to understand the religion. Islam is not only a religion, but it is a proscribed way of living. However, it is only your public life that is proscribed. What you do in private is your business, and it has always been that way in the Muslim world. Thus no alcohol or gay sex in public, but booze and kinky sex at home is perfectly okay until it becomes a public issue.

[Guest thaiworthy]

It is hypocritical to the Western way of thinking, but you have to understand the religion. Islam is not only a religion, but it is a proscribed way of living. However, it is only your public life that is proscribed. What you do in private is your business, and it has always been that way in the Muslim world. Thus no alcohol or gay sex in public, but booze and kinky sex at home is perfectly okay until it becomes a public issue.

 

Interesting. I was brought up Catholic. Thank you for this feedback. I was not aware of this way of thinking.

[ChristianPFC]

...in Arabic-speaking countries, the social, cultural and legal prohibitions against sexual relations between men are incredibly strong....

 

For sake of accuracy: this is rather related to religion (Islam) than to language. (Of course, most Muslim countries speak Arabic. But not Indonesia and Malaysia, which are right on Thailand's doorsteps!)

[Guest fountainhall]

it is only your public life that is proscribed. What you do in private is your business

 

I really don’t know the answer to this, but I wonder if it is accurate that those of the Muslim faith have free reign to do whatever they want out of the pubic eye. I realise women do not have to wear their burqas, abayas, hijabs and the like at home. But are they really permitted to drink alcohol? Are two men free to have sex?

 

In Hong Kong, I was at a number of private receptions where sheiks would routinely knock back the wine. Even though they were not in an Islamic country, I always thought alcohol consumption was a definite no-no!

 

(Mind you, I just read that Krispy Kreme donuts contain alcohol - the glaze has a small amount of ethyl alcohol - and so I guessed they cannot be sold, even in Malaysia. But it seems the dietary laws do permit synthetic alcohol and all alcohol not sourced from dates and grapes in cooking, provided it is not intended to intoxicate or in quantities that would intoxicate.)

 

There surely seem to be instances of Islamic justice where what has happened in private has been punished, sometimes with death. Two young homosexual men were publicly murdered by the state of Iran just a few years ago. In Malaysia in 2010, three young women were caned (lightly, and when they were fully clad, it appears) and were given prison sentences for indulging in sex before marriage. (Had they been married, one wonders, would the punishment of death by stoning, as prescribed in the Quran, have been carried out?) And just this week we have seen the horrific murder by the Taliban of a young women for adultery. Presumably, all these alleged offences took place out of the public eye!

 

Yet, from what I have read of Islamic law, the Quran has very specific references to the importance of evidence and of fair justice. This excerpt from Islam: Its Law and Society states -

 

Thus, in the absence of four morally upright male Muslim witnesses who are prepared to testify that they have personally witnessed the sexual act, a conviction for zina (adultery or fornication) cannot be obtained . . .

 

http://books.google....alaysia&f=false

 

Is it really possible that four morally upright men witnessed the acts of the two Iranians, or the young Afghani woman? (The Malaysian girls apparently gave themselves up, repented and then said they were glad they were beaten ).

[Guest takeaway77]

For sake of accuracy: this is rather related to religion (Islam) than to language. (Of course, most Muslim countries speak Arabic. But not Indonesia and Malaysia, which are right on Thailand's doorsteps!)

 

 

Good point. I would also mention cultural traditions as well.

[kokopelli]

For sake of accuracy: this is rather related to religion (Islam) than to language. (Of course, most Muslim countries speak Arabic. But not Indonesia and Malaysia, which are right on Thailand's doorsteps!)

 

 

Good point. I would also mention cultural traditions as well.

 

Also keep in mind that not all Arabs are Muslims. In Lebanon, for example, there is a large population of Christian Arabs who do speak Arabic but also French and English.

[KhorTose]

Is it really possible that four morally upright men witnessed the acts of the two Iranians, or the young Afghani woman? (The Malaysian girls apparently gave themselves up, repented and then said they were glad they were beaten ).

 

Difference is between a witness and a victim. Once the act becomes public. i.e. a victim coming forward, then it is up to other means---including torture, or seeking out other witnesses--to find out the truth.