From today's 'The Nation'

[Guest JamesBarnes]

This is an example of why Khun Paisarn won an OUT iT Award:

 

Homophobia and prejudice: It's time to kil the hate

 

Paisarn Likhitpreechakul

 

Special to The Nation May 17, 2012 1:00 am

 

While LGBT Americans last week celebrated President Obama's statement of support for same-sex marriage, Thai lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders could only look on with envy, as Thailand is perhaps decades away from having a leader with such moral courage.

 

In fact, the opposite is true here. Homophobia and transphobia is the rule in Thai politics. When his interior minister, Purachai Piamsomboon, mulled about legalising gay marriage some years ago, then PM Thaksin Shinawatra quickly dismissed it as a "Western idea". Just two weeks ago, a Pheu Thai MP mocked a Democrat MP for being "taew taek" ("over-the-top queen"). The latter denied that he's not one and said the Pheu Thai Party harboured many more "people of that kind".

 

The use of alleged homosexuality for political attacks clearly shows how Thai society views gays and transgenders: deranged, immoral and, therefore, undeserving of respect.

This is to be expected in a country where the medical profession still categorises transgenderism as a form of mental disorder, where the predominantly "Buddhist" population believes that LGBTs are immoral and guilty of past-life sins, where all junior high-school students are instructed by government-approved textbooks that homosexuality is a kind of sexual deviancy, and where the media like the popular TV programme "Tee Sib" regularly reinforces negative images by portraying LGBTs as morally defective, promiscuous, and spreaders of HIV/Aids.

 

It's no surprise then that Thailand has no openly LGBT public figures, despite the known secret that some of our past and present leaders are homosexuals. Even straight officials unafraid of gay rumours are reluctant to support LGBT rights, not wanting to be seen as having "low moral standards".

 

Thailand is usually perceived by foreigners as tolerant towards LGBTs because transgenders are more visible than in the West. But this myth is based on the wrong assumption that visibility comes with equality. Few foreigners would notice that the transgenders are visible only in lower-rung careers. The sight of many local men enjoying a thriving gay scene also hides the fact that few are "out" to their families. Even fewer are "out" at work, especially if they are in the formal sectors.

 

It's true that in general Thai LGBTs don't get their heads kicked in. But that's only because the culture has already done an excellent job of kicking our heads in, convincing most LGBTs that we are somehow lesser human beings. We are normally left alone as long as we mind our place and stay within the cultural fence.

 

But if we try to cross into more formal space, society is ready to rein us in - sometimes violently. The shutdown of the Chiang Mai Gay Pride parade three years ago and the overwhelming public support for Chiang Mai's banning of transgenders from decorative floats during public festivities are examples of cultural resistance against equal treatment for LGBTs.

 

The public sphere is not the only place where Thai LGBTs must tread carefully. Some people find it too close for comfort when LGBTs are perceived to be entering their personal space. Many people object to a proposed law to recognise gender change because they claim that men would be duped into marrying a transgender. (On the contrary, same-sex marriage seems less threatening, as it only involves "those people".)

Things can get violent, when the "intrusion" is no longer hypothetical. Last June, a tomboy was killed and her body dumped in a reservoir in Trat. The main suspect, the mother of the victim's girlfriend, readily divulged that the reason for the murder was her preference to see her daughter date a man than a "tom". This is clearly a case where a person is killed because of her sexual orientation and gender identity. It would be categorised as "hate crime" in countries with a law - such as the Matthew Shepard Act in the US - to curb crimes motivated in whole or in part by the offender's bias against the victim's identity.

 

One would hope that this is just an isolated case. But a disturbing pattern is emerging. In 2009, two 17-year-old girls in a same-sex relationship were found dead with more than sixty stab wounds in Chiang Mai. Police suggested they were killed by a man who was attracted to one of them and disdainful of their relationship. This case was an exception in that there were no other obvious causes for the crime, so the police quickly zeroed in on jealously and bias as the motive.

 

But the idea of "hate crime" doesn't exist in Thailand's law enforcement, and the police usually account for similar cases as crimes of passion or love affairs turned sour. In at least five other murder cases over the past six years, the police hypothesised that the tom or lesbian victims were killed solely because they had become involved with married women or someone's girlfriends.

 

This assumption legitimises the murders as the victims' own fault, as though a murder is an appropriate reaction if the alleged affairs are true. It also blinds society to the fact that a man in a similar love triangle would unlikely meet the same fate. As the Trat case clearly shows, the victim would not have been killed if she were a man.

 

And yet, murders are not the only kind of violence against toms and lesbians. In February, a 14-year-old girl in Loei reported to police that her father had been raping her continuously for four years. The father excused his behaviour by saying that he did it because she "liked to hang out with toms" and wouldn't listen to his instructions to stay away from them. Corrective rapes "to cure lesbians" are known to be far from rare, although until now overlooked by the state.

 

This can only be the tip of an iceberg. The question is how many unreported cases of violence are infused with homophobia? These cases of gruesome violence against toms and lesbians prompted local LGBT groups in collaboration with the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission to send a letter to Thai officials, demanding investigation and action, along with other measures to combat homophobia and transphobia and discrimination against LGBTs. The government has yet to respond.

In its 2011 report, the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights identified murder, beatings, kidnappings, rape and sexual assault against LGBT people as homophobic and transphobic violence that "constitute a form of gender-based violence, driven by a desire to punish those seen as defying gender norms", and that violence against LGBT people "tends to be especially vicious compared to other bias-motivated crimes".

 

The pretense of acceptance has long blinded Thai society from its deep-rooted homophobia and transphobia, allowing such horrendous crimes to happen. It's true that male-to-female transgenders are rarely targets of violence, as they have been a familiar, if ridiculed, part of the Thai culture. However, these cases of violence against toms and lesbians shows that the crossing of gender lines by females into male territory is more threatening for some Thais, especially when it's felt to be invading one's personal life.

To mark today's International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, said "Homophobia and transphobia are no different to sexism, misogyny, racism or xenophobia. But whereas these last forms of prejudice are universally condemned by governments, homophobia and transphobia are too often overlooked. History shows us the terrible human price of discrimination and prejudice. No one is entitled to treat a group of people as less valuable, less deserving or less worthy of respect. Each and every one of us is entitled to the same rights, to the same respect and ethical treatment, regardless of our sexual orientation or gender identity."

 

Although Thailand has made a significant foreign policy shift last year by supporting LGBT rights internationally for the first time, it did not support the inclusion of "sexual orientation" as a ground for protection in the UN resolution to condemn extrajudicial killings. Now that evidence has emerged to indicate the existence of such violence in our own backyard, it's time the government did something to eliminate the root causes of the subtle, yet ever-present homophobia and transphobia in Thai society.

 

Paisarn Likhitpreechakul is co-founder of FOR-SOGI.org for the promotion and protection of LGBT rights in Thailand.

[Guest fountainhall]


The use of alleged homosexuality for political attacks clearly shows how Thai society views gays and transgenders: deranged, immoral and, therefore, undeserving of respect . . . all junior high-school students are instructed by government-approved textbooks that homosexuality is a kind of sexual deviancy, and where the media like the popular TV programme "Tee Sib" regularly reinforces negative images by portraying LGBTs as morally defective, promiscuous, and spreaders of HIV/Aids.

 

An interesting article but one which, I feel, goes more than somewhat over the top. Gays who visit what one regular poster calls the “expat ghettos” of Soi Twilight, Soi 4, Sunee and Boystown will find much of it hard to believe. For them, the sexual paradise that is Thailand is still more or less what it always has been for decades, even though frequent visitors during that time have noticed the subtle changes that have been taking place, changes which indicate that time itself will eventually see this sexual paradise continuously whittled away.

 

Gay visitors also are at first bemused and then thankful that such a seemingly open and welcoming attitude to gay sex exists in the Land of Smiles. Partly that has to the Thai’s natural openness to farang of many cultures. But few see below the surface smiles to a land where many of those who work in the gay tourist traps are driven there by economic hardship and by the need to support families with more money than can be earned in the rice fields. Many, as we know, are not in fact gay. And few would dare do such work if there were a Sunee or Soi 4 in their hometown.

 

Those of us who live here know that Thailand is a deeply conservative society. We know that many within that society do regard the idea that their children could be gay as anathema to them. Is this, I wonder, largely due to the Chinese influence arising from the mass immigration of Chinese into the country a long time ago? For these are the same views still held in many of the differing Chinese cultures.

 

Of course, some families realise that their offspring will never marry and will openly welcome the gay relationship of their son, be it with a Thai or farang – in just the same way that many families welcome farang as their sons-in-law. But surely it is no coincidence that most of these families tend come from the most economically hard-hit parts of the country? We have talked before on this Board about the difficulty farang have in meeting more ‘middle-class’ and even high-so Thais. Part of this is because they have their own ways of meeting up and prefer to socialize and mix amongst their own set. That’s perfectly understandable. But part, surely, is also because they know where they can be safe from prying eyes, from those who will gossip about A being seen dancing with B, and where such gossip may eventually get back to their families.

 

I have also written before about a Thai lady I know whose family is what many would regard as close to hi-so. She is one of the few who openly talk about and accept gay friends. She also feels a deep sadness for some of her friends whom she knows to be gay but who cannot admit it to their families and, worse, cannot express their sexuality openly because of the ‘hurt’ it would cause their families.

 

The “pretense of blindness” to which the writer refers is not merely confined to matters sexual. It is apparent throughout the entire fabric of Thai society. Most Thais see only what they want to see and hear what they wish to hear. Indeed, they have a remarkable capacity not to “know” what they do in fact know. Many reveal a remarkable hypocrisy. Second wives, mistresses, pervasive corruption at sometimes massively high levels, for example, are known to exist, but are tolerated. Only occasionally will that mask of pretense slip and we will hear of a particularly gruesome crime of passion against a mistress or action against corrupt official. Live and let live! Mai pen rai!

 

In this respect, they are very like the older, more traditional Japanese. Indeed, many Japanese television shows also include the outrageous transvestite as a character of fun and ridicule.

 

Yet, I often wonder, was Thailand always like this? Were Buddhist beliefs in the sins of past lives being manifested by being gay in the present always part of Buddhist teaching? Were gays always regarded as “deranged, immoral and, therefore, undeserving of respect?” I don’t know, but something tells me that the answers are probably ‘No’, that these beliefs are in fact much more recent. But I cannot explain why!

 

What does surprise me in the article is the homophobia which the writer refers to. I rarely hear of such homophobic attacks in the media – perhaps they are confined to the Thai media, or simply buried in one paragraph summaries amidst a group of other crime stories.

 

Will Thailand change? We often hear that change has to come from within a society. In the case of sexuality and homophobia, I do not believe that is possible, certainly not in Thailand. Change has to come from enlightened leadership which explains and persuades. Only then will change filter down into the fabric of society. Sadly, I see no such enlightened leadership on the horizon.

 

On another forum (gaybuttonthai), I note that James wrote -

 

"All this against a background of increased police 'interest' in gay venues will only mean that the new generation of Thai gays will push back harder and prevail. Thailand's Stonewall is imminent . . ."

 

Sorry, James! Whilst I wish that might be the case, your logic is flawed. It will never happen - not even in several months of Sundays! This is Thailand!

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Dear Fountainhall,

 

As usual, your contributuion here is reasonable and cogent. Thank you.

 

However, when you say 'Change has to come from enlightened leadership which explains and persuades', I have to differ. It is my view that when leadership is blinkered and lacking enlightenment, change comes about through protest and rebellion. As I have commented elswhere, the feedback I get from the many Thai readers of OUT in Thailand Magazine, demonstrates that there really is a new generation of internet savvy, English speaking, youngsters who are at odds with the status quo and it is these progressive people who will shape the future attitudes to gays in Thailand.

 

Rest assured, that OUT iT lends them our full support.

 

Best wishes,

 

James.

[Guest fountainhall]


1. It is my view that when leadership is blinkered and lacking enlightenment, change comes about through protest and rebellion.

 

2. the feedback I get from the many Thai readers of OUT in Thailand Magazine, demonstrates that there really is a new generation of internet savvy, English speaking, youngsters who are at odds with the status quo and it is these progressive people who will shape the future attitudes to gays in Thailand.

 

Once again, I regret my views differ from those of James for whom I have the utmost respect and whose magazine I enjoy reading.

 

1. Yes, I agree with this comment - but not in every respect. Social change can come about in a variety of ways. One is the Stonewall-type protest and the determination of gays in the US and Europe to push for change, to push for acceptance and the right to live their lives their way. You can rightly argue that this took courage, faith and tremendous determination. The gradual pushing back of boundaries worked in a relatively short space of time. And all this in what were regarded as countries with conservative values.

 

2. With the greatest respect, you have already informed us that OUT magazine's readership is understandably limited. I can fully understand why Thai guys write to you of their frustrations and their desires for freedom in expressing their sexuality. No doubt, if they openly got together as a group, they could achieve something. But there's the rub! How many Thais from all walks of life - including the middle class, pop stars and high-so - will you get to 'come out' to form a movement here in Thailand of "protest and rebellion?" The sad fact is very few will - and almost none from the groups I have mentioned. Why? Because most of these guys are scared! They are scared of the reactions of their employers and fellow employees. They are scared of the reactions of their families and social groupings. They are scared about their job prospects and advancement in Thai society.

 

I was in Taipei last October for the Taipei Gay Pride Parade. It was an amazing adventure, a stunning day! More than 30,000 young gays, many students and most from Taiwan, marching through the capital city openly proclaiming their being gay and the need for more rights (which the Mayor had promised, but then not delivered). It was such a fun afternoon that many passers-by applauded the marchers and shouted words of encouragement.

 

Prior to then, I had zero idea that a march like this – of such proportions – could happen in a country like Taiwan! That march works every year because it is wonderfully organised and it consists of ordinary people from all walks of life. Apart from some advertising, there was absolutely no presence from any of the gay establishments in the city.

 

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/topic/7404-2011-taipei-gay-parade-a-blog/

 

Now compare that with the Pride Parades that used to take place in Bangkok. Far smaller numbers, bad organisation, bad liaison with local authorities, attendance mostly by bar workers, and an over-preponderance of what many would call "queens". In other words, all these Parades achieved was to reinforce the gay stereotype held by most Thais. Absolutely nothing was achieved in respect of equality for gays. Nothing!

 

And what has happened to these Parades? They’re dead! No-one wants to organize them any more.

 

Stonewall ‘worked’ because there was effective leadership prepared to go ‘out’ into the open, inspire others, argue the issues and generally help transform society’s thinking. Where are the gay leaders in Thailand prepared to do that? For decades, gay activist Khun Natee Teerarojjanapongs and others have worked their butts off to try and get gay issues on to the public agenda and to get gays to organise. What has changed? Virtually nothing!

 

In reality, there is no locally-driven gay rights movement that is effective in any aspect of increasing gay rights – other then in helping develop anti-HIV strategies. As for changing society as a whole, this is Thailand where the individual has far less importance than the community. It is not the USA. It is not the UK. It is not Australia. It is not even Taiwan!

 

Thailand’s Stonewall is so far from imminent, very few of us reading this thread will be around to see it happen.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

I do admit, dear Fountainhall, that my glass is half full and that my rose tinted specs are wishing for an outcome that sees a triumph of hope over expectation but there are signs of a fledgling "solidarity" amongst gay Thais. My experiences in this country show that, very often, reaction to provocation is disproportionate and that could be the spark that causes a leap forward for gay rights.

 

I do envy your attendance of the Taipai Pride. I understand that the scene there is truly vibrant and thank you so much for pointing me in the direction of your reports and tremendous collection of pictures.

 

Thank you also for your kind words about the magazine- it seems hard to believe that our 18th issue has just gone to print!

 

Best wishes,

 

James.

[Guest fountainhall]

I have been coming to this country for more than 30 years now, sometimes on business, more often on vacation, until moving my base here 10 years ago. I meet people from a wide spectrum of Thai society, even on occasion from a certain not-to-be-named family! I do wear glasses, and in my life and career they have almost always had a rosy hue. But as regards solidarity amongst Thai gays to the extent some will start a meaningful public movement, my glasses are, to quote the immortal bard, "with hue so black"!

 

Yes, sparks can arise - as we have seen with the red shirts. But I will agree to disagree with you about gay rights in Thailand, for the sparks will not light the hoped-for flames of rebellion.

 

Last point - for the moment. Do you not think it odd that in the whole of Asia, there is no really effective gay rights movement? The obvious place for one to take root would be Hong Kong which has been open to western thoughts and ideas for a great deal longer than most. Yet, the leaders of the movement there really struggle, even with assistance from a prominent legislator. If Hong Kong which has a large number of gay men and women can not succeed, how on earth can Thailand persuade its much larger and much more deeply conservative population?

 

Glad you enjoyed the Taipei Pride photos. Everyone should go. It's a glorious celebration of being gay, yet in another fairly conservative country. I'll be there again on the last Saturday in October this year - that's the firm date now for the annual celebration.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

It is odd that Asia does not seem to possess an effective gay rights movement but maybe that will evolve along with the 'westernisation' that is already under way in the continent.

 

Maybe we will meet in Taipai- you have persuaded me that it would be a superb event to attend.

 

Best wishes,

 

James.

[Guest thaiworthy]

As for changing society as a whole, this is Thailand where the individual has far less importance than the community. It is not the USA. It is not the UK. It is not Australia. It is not even Taiwan!

 

This is the point that hit closest to home for me. This is the bottom line. There is nothing wrong at all with what Mr. Barnes has said, quite the opposite, but it is of a special interest and a bit biased, I believe, because OUT magazine deals with coming out of the closet. Or as Khun Paisarn might be inclined to say, bursting from said closet.

 

I enjoyed reading this conversation and appreciated the concerns from both parties. I heartily agree with Fountainhall's eloquent observations. He is eminently qualified to state his position, given his experience with gays and his tenure in Asia. You will find no better spokesperson for your readers' points-of-view. James, you are after all-- the editor of a magazine that is keenly focused on these issues, so it is certainly understandable to assume why you want to bring these issues to light. Thank you for that.

 

Discussion boards really shine for subjects like these. After Khun Paisarn has taken his bows, you may want to consider Fountainhall for your next year's award, if not for his words, then perhaps for some of his photos!

[Rogie]

This is a very worthwhile topic for discussion.

 

Speaking as one who for quite some time believed that just because I could perform something so wonderfully and absurdly simple, but frowned upon in seemingly less enlightened places, such as holding hands with my BF in public without apparent censure or even adverse comment from his countrymen was the equivalent of approval, or at least lack of disapproval, but now realising that not to be so, and not knowing how that can be resolved, I would agree with Thaiworthy - amongst ourselves such things need to be discussed - after all, there is no law that says that the situation described by FH in post #2 "Gay visitors also are at first bemused and then thankful that such a seemingly open and welcoming attitude to gay sex exists in the Land of Smiles" will last . . . it might not.

 

 

[Guest fountainhall]

A couple of years ago I read an excellent book by Alex Kerr: Bangkok Found. I have referred to and quoted from it on gaythailand before, but this thread seems to call out for a refresher of what he wrote.

 

Bangkok Found: Reflections on the City by Alex Kerr published by River Books

 

Kerr is an award-winning author who has spent most of his life in Asia, apart from time out to earn degrees in Chinese Studies at Oxford University and Japanese Studies at Yale. His book Lost Japan writtten in Japanese earned him Japan’s highest literary award, the only time it has ever been given to a foreigner. Based in Japan until around 1997, he had however visited Thailand regularly since 1973. As he himself says in the book, he moved to Bangkok permanently in 1997 to join his Thai partner here. During his time in Thailand, he has got to know Thai culture and traditions better than almost any other farang can. His circle of Thai friends is huge, and what he says about the country carries a great deal of weight.

 

In my earlier posts, I made selective quotes to back up specific points. Here I will merely string them together as they do make a relatively coherent whole (and with apologies to Mr. Kerr for taking the excerpts slightly out of order).

 

Despite the festival atmosphere at Silom, Thai society is hardly the open sexual paradise that many foreigners imagine . . . In fact, there is a strong streak of puritanism running through modern Thai society . . .

 

Here Kerr gives various reasons – austere chinese morality, the vestiges of colonial western values from the 19^th century which Thailand took to heart in the process of modernization, long decades of military rule, when rulers insisted that people conform to officially mandated social standards, periodic clampdowns by the Ministries of Culture and Education on “immodest behaviour” and a need to return to “Thai values”.

 

Underlying this is a sense of revulsion that society at large expresses against the more obvious signs of Bangkok’s booming sex business. It gives the city an unsavory air, and is a source of embarrassment internationally. Prostitution continues to thrive, partly due to poverty, of course, and partly due to the fact that Thais don't take it as seriously as Westerners do. They see it (much as the Japanese) as a male biological urge and they don't much concern themselves about it, so long as it keeps a low profile. Prostitution is a loaded issue that each culture approaches with its own bias. The Thai and Japanese bias is about being seen doing it. In the West and the Muslim world, moral imperatives derived from Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions, judge it wrong from the start. So it can strike visitors to Thailand in a very conflicted way . . .

 

I have what I call the ‘Weimar Repubic’ theory of Bangkok. As dramatized in the movie Cabaret, there was a brief moment of sinful freedom in Berlin during the Weimar Republic (1919 – 1933). It was the era of Kurt Weill’s bittersweet music and Christopher Isherwood’s novels and stories. By the mid-1930s the Nazis stamped it out, and eventually all that remained was a legend of ‘Berlin in the 20s’. Those who experienced it spent the rest of their lives telling others of the wild days that were now gone forever.

 

In time, the more outrageous forms that prostitution takes in Bangkok (sex shows, go-go bars with half naked boys or girls with numbers on their panties gyrating on tables) will disappear. For those things, Bangkok stands far out on the scale of what most cities in the world see as acceptable. I don’t believe it will last. Slowly but surely we are seeing a clampdown, and it’s a matter of time before the ‘sinful’ Bangkok we see today fades into legend, just as 1920s Berlin did . . .

 

This doesn’t mean that commercial sex will disappear . . . it does mean that we’re seeing a steady shift in the balance between prostitution and non-commercial venues . . . Meanwhile there’s a new open sexuality among the youth, which also alarms conservative elements in government and society. Back in the 80s and 90s, Rome Club on Silom Soi 4 was one of the few places where young urban professionals hung out. Since then nightlife has exploded into a wide range of venues across town. Youngsters dance the night away at huge discos at RCA or the clubs in the Ratchada area; gays go to Silom Soi 2 or to dozens of venues clustered in entertainment districts around the city . . . Sophisticated venues like Bed Supperclub or the fancy nightclubs on Soi Thonglor attract a well-heeled clientele.

 

As late as the mid-90s, boys and girls rarely held hand in public. Handholding was mostly a boy-boy or girl-girl thing. Outside their homes, people shunned physical contact in general. Now this is all changing, and dance in the discos has a lot to do with it. Politicians and bureaucrats therefore see dance as dangerous and have done their best to restrict it, by granting few licenses, tightening the zoning for entertainment districts, and requiring clubs to close earlier and earlier. Bangkok is already far more restrictive than Singapore or Tokyo when it comes to officially mandated closing times and permitted age limits for entry. Of course, this being Bangkok, the restrictions have plenty of holes in them. Somehow, certain clubs manage to evade the rules and stay open till morning.

 

The above does not entirely back up my positions expressed in earlier posts, and wanders slightly off-topic. But elsewhere in the book Kerr gives, I suggest, a penetrating and detailed insight into Thai Society that does essentially give pointers as to why a gay revolution will not happen in Thailand for a very, very long time.

 

The book is, incidentally, a wonderful and insightful read.

[Rogie]

I haven't read Bangkok Found, but having read Lost Japan many years ago the name Alex Kerr has stuck in my mind as a truly excellent writer.

 

I popped into a bookshop in Bangkok recently and looked for Bangkok Found but they didn't have it so I bought another book instead, and once I've finished reading it I'll post a review on this message board.

[Guest fountainhall]

Just checked. There's one copy still available at amazon.co.uk and 2 copies at amazon.com which also has a Kindle edition.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Time to pat yourselves on the back gaythailand.com ! I just had a message from Paisarn Likhitpreechakul who remarked that this forum has a 'Very different level of discussion from that of Thaivisa!"

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps James can persuade Khun Paisarn to make an occasional contribution to this Forum. It would add a local perspective and add balance to some of the discussions.

[Guest thaiworthy]

Unfortunately, Bangkok Found is not available as an iBook from iTunes. Damn. Thought since FH said it was available on Kindle it was worth searching for, but no luck. Bangkok Found is really lost if you can't buy it anywhere!

 

Thanks for the Facebook link Mr. Barnes. (Sadly, I can't afford to buy any FB stock today at their IPO, but if you wanna buy something, this is as good a bet as any, I would think.) Took a look at Paisarn's page and friended him. I think he's pretty cute!

 

As for Paisarn contributing to the forum, it seems he can write pretty good English from the few English FB entries I saw. But all the boards are heavily dominated by farang. It would be fortunate albeit unusual to see any gay Thai here, but there's always a first time. I remain hopeful.

 

And lastly, the last time I patted myself on the back, it broke my arm. I hardly ever say anything worthy of self-praise, but there are several here who do. Thanks for the comment, anyway.

[Guest asiantrekker]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your kind words. And thank you, khun James, for posting the article.

 

I was very pleasantly surprised to read all the thoughtful and positive responses on this forum, after having been informed by khun James about this thread.

 

As you already know, the responses on Thaivisa.com, which a friend pointed me to, are "interesting", to say the least. I understand where most of those were coming from. But if the posters actually read the article carefully, they would realize that I was talking about the realities as lived by most Thai LGBTs, not those of foreign visitors or expats. One can be living in a place for years, and remain a visitor to that world.

 

It was also amusing to be called "Peter Tatchell of Thailand" for allegedly undermining LGBT cause in Thailand by one particular poster, who went on to -- less amusingly -- make wild accusations against local activists of fabrications, undermining the chance of LGBT inclusion in the constitution (which we actually pushed for, albeit with half- success) and draw comparison of our activism -- less amusingly -- to the Nazis.

 

I do understand that people have different views of things, and some may put up great defense rather than having their bubbles punctured. I hope they will come around and see our works as useful for local LGBTs including their partners and themselves. Who knows, maybe one day they will even get their relationships legally recognized and able to live here as legitimate spouse of a Thai citizen!

 

Respectfully

Paisarn

[Guest JamesBarnes]

It is delightful to see Khun Paisarn join this discussion despite his tremendously busy schedule.

 

OUT iT Magazine supports his aims 100% and is more than happy to provide a platform to further the cause of LGBT rights in Thailand.

 

It is my personal view that the gentle breeze that has started to blow will gather strength and herald the winds of real change in Thailand. It may be rough for a while but as Hilary Clinton recently told the UN, 'gay rights are human rights' and I am certain that this view will prevail.

 

The veneer of tolerance in Thailand may be attractive but full acceptance under the law is something that should be demanded without compromise.

[Guest fountainhall]

It is delightful to see Khun Paisarn join this discussion despite his tremendously busy schedule.

 

I agree entirely. I very much hope he will contribute from time to time, especially on matters relating to homosexuality in Thailand where he can bring a unique insight to discussions.

[pong]

and back to subject: that day was apparently the international day of/against homofobia, as was prominent in about any serious newspaper ehre in Europe. Mostly with the themed articles from Uganda and its horrible suppression. And some online testing of how homofobe you are yourself.

back for myself and this is only personal: this topic I find extremely boring.

[Rogie]

back for myself and this is only personal: this topic I find extremely boring.

 

Poor you! It may be boring in some quarters, granted.

 

This discussion has centred around Thailand, a complicated country where issues are seldom cut and dried, and is far from boring IMO.

[Guest fountainhall]

this topic I find extremely boring.

 

I am glad you brought up the fact that the article appeared on the International Day against Homophobia, as I certainly was not aware of that.

 

But if you are bored by the thread, why bother reading it?