Are Low-Cost Carriers Really Cheaper?

[Guest fountainhall]

There’s an interesting article in today’s Guardian about the add-on fees which European low cost carriers slap on unwary flyers now that the high season is here.

 

The worst offender appears to be the one with the lowest “printed” fares – Ryannair. Want to take one 20kg bag with you, Ryannair levies a charge that varies from £70 - £80. But that’s only if you book your bag in advance on the website. Turn up at the airport and the fee rises to £130!

 

Want to stuff your on-board bag to the limit to avoid those fees? Well, go over that on-board limit by a few grams and Ryannair adds a flat £50 additional fee.

 

The Guardian survey discovered that on one airline you can pay an extra surcharge of a whopping £120 if your checked bag is just 3kgs over the amount you already paid for. Want to take your golf clubs? Ryannair charges £100 each way.

 

And it’s not only on flights that passengers are ripped off. Book car hire through an lcc and the chances are very high it will be “much pricier than could be found elsewhere.” For a one-week hire in Malaga, Ryannair wanted £92, Easyjet £109 and Flybe £125. Yet, book on other car hire websites and the cost can be £72 - £77!

 

Credit card fees come in for the most scathing criticism. For a family of four paying with a debit card, Ryannair adds £48 - £6 per sector per passenger!

 

So, perhaps not surprisingly, Ryannair “was the highest cost airlines for bags, credit card fees, name change fees, flight change fees, fees for taking on special items such as golf clubs, and even the fee for sending a passenger a text to tell them about the flight.”

 

As the article concludes –

 

Flying with a budget airline can save the traveller money, but largely by foregoing a bag and by accepting that once the ticket is bought, there can be no changes.

 

Interestingly –

 

The "full service" airlines, such as British Airways, came out well in the survey, although BA introduced budget airline-style advance seat reservation charges in 2009, much to the dismay of regular travellers.

 

http://www.guardian....dd-ons-add-up#_

 

And I have found that by buying quite far in advance, the overall cost is generally cheaper on legacy carriers than on the lccs.

 

The Asian lccs may not be quite as Scrooge-like as their European counterparts – yet! But let’s revisit this thread in a couple of years and see how those extra charges have escalated.

[Rogie]

It certainly pays to watch any LCC like a hawk. Some while ago on another thread there was discussion of those sneaky charges for paying by plastic. If I recall correctly only holders of a Visa Electron card escaped charges; problem was (I believe the card was on the verge of being scrapped) that card was 'next to impossible' to get hold of. I cannot see any justification for charging the same for debit and credit cards. Credit cards; fair enough keep to 3% or so, debit cards should incur no extra charge.

 

What would I do if I had done my preliminary homework and reasoned a LCC was looking like a good deal? I'd go onto the internet and add up all the 'extras' and take that quote to a traditional high street travel agent where I would pay for the flight, holiday or whatever, in cash.

 

Charges for bags are fine as far as I'm concerned. It's not like you turn up at the airport expecting a free 20 kg allowance, you know in advance what it'll cost. So the kind of person who tries to smuggle a 25kg bag for the price of a 20kg one, or any other kind of trick, is asking for it IMO, so actually that is one aspect of LCC's I don't object to, play by the rules, don't be tempted to cheat, and you get what you pay for.

[Guest]

Ryan Air are often very competitive for a short business trip or weekend break, where hand luggage could be used. Mind you, even there, the maximum size of the hand luggage is severely restricted. I only know of one luggage manufacturer who has done the obvious and made a bag shaped to fit the Ryan Air limits. If they had any sense, there would be a range of rucksacks, wheeled cases & so on to fit the limits of the popular low cost airlines.

After all, there must be almost no tooling cost for a flexible case.

 

What I also don't understand is why they discriminate against luggage in this way. Why should a 75kg passenger with 25gk of hand luggage pay more than a 90 kg passenger with 10 kg of luggage?

It makes no sense. They both require the same amount of fuel to keep the plane in the air.

 

Also, ideally Boeing & Airbus would offer bespoke LCC planes. According to my concept, they would lower the floor, therefore reducing the checked luggage space and allowing larger overhead lockers to be fitted. Then all the passengers could be permitted to take a larger bag on board.

 

Overall, I don't mind the Ryan Air baggage charges at all, as not every traveller needs a bag. What I DO mind is the credit-debit card fees. These are almost unavoidable, so it would be a hell of a lot more convenient if they were included in the headline price, so the consumer can have a more accurate initial quote for the fare.

 

Also, with the latest iteration of their website, the poor consumer has to input one of those dreadful CAPTCHA codes before getting a quote. Too much of that nonsense & they will start losing some customers.

 

Overall though, I am happy to benefit from the low cost fares & fairly punctual service offered by Ryan Air.

[Rogie]

What I also don't understand is why they discriminate against luggage in this way. Why should a 75kg passenger with 25gk of hand luggage pay more than a 90 kg passenger with 10 kg of luggage? It makes no sense. They both require the same amount of fuel to keep the plane in the air...

 

Nice idea Z - unfortunately, us poor mugs living within the European Union can thank the human rights cat implemented by those idiotic Eurocrats for why that could never happen.

 

Also, with the latest iteration of their website, the poor consumer has to input one of those dreadful CAPTCHA codes before getting a quote.

 

I must have lived a sheltered life - I'm not familiar with CAPTCHA.

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Did anyone spot the deliberate mistake? Yes, it should of course be the Human Rights Act, not Cat. However, this 'Act' is held in so little regard that a story briefly got off the ground last October that an illegal immigrant in Britain was able to appeal against his deportation because he owned a cat. Many people were quite prepared to believe it!

[KhorTose]

I've never flofown Ryan Air, and now probably won't---at least with my 10k's of makeup Thai partner---however, I have really given up on Air Asia. If I book far enough ahead I can and do beat their price, and NOK air offers far more perks with less hassle then this #%$*& airline.

[Guest fountainhall]


What I also don't understand is why they discriminate against luggage in this way. Why should a 75kg passenger with 25gk of hand luggage pay more than a 90 kg passenger with 10 kg of luggage? It makes no sense. They both require the same amount of fuel to keep the plane in the air.

 

I could not agree more. If fuel costs are the issue, then weighing passenger + luggage is the only fair route to go. But that would be unacceptable to governments and all sorts of civil liberties’ groups, especially about discrimination of people either obese or close to obese. But weight of luggage up to a certain reasonable limit should NOT be an issue.

 


I must have lived a sheltered life - I'm not familiar with CAPTCHA.

 

CAPTCHAs ('captures') are those pesky groups of letters/numbers you increasingly have to decode and enter in a box before a credit card payment can be on the internet. Apparently it ensures that the response is being given by a thinking human being and not a thinking computer!

 

 

I have really given up on Air Asia. If I book far enough ahead I can and do beat their price, and NOK air offers far more perks with less hassle then this #%$*& airline.

 

Hallelujah! A fellow convert. I loathe Air Asia. In the 20 or so flights I booked until mid 2010, the extra costs I incurred as a result of having to re-book on other airlines due to overlong delays (12 hours in one case from Penang to Bangkok) to outright cancellations (which totally screwed up an entire 3-day pre-paid trip to Hanoi), cost me more than booking on scheduled airlines.

 

I am sure few people read the small print when they click the "I agree to the airline's terms and conditions" box just before they part with their money. Beware! For Air Asia's Terms and Conditions of Carriage state this -

 

At any time after a booking has been made we may change our schedules and/or cancel, terminate, divert, postpone reschedule or delay any flight where we reasonably consider this to be justified by circumstances beyond our control or for reasons of safety or commercial reasons.

 

With luck, and if you have left 12 or more hours for your connecting flight, you may get on to an alternative. With my Hanoi trip, Air Asia actually cancelled my flights 4 months prior to travel. They sent me an sms which was returned to them undelivered. Did they then try to contact me by email or home phone, both of which they had in their records? No! It was left to me to discover it when I checked the site to see if there had been any change to flight departure times!

 

Want a refund? Forget it! Air Asia's policy is "No Refunds" - even though something is entirely their fault! In any case, a refund on the day of travel for a ticket booked 7 months in advance is not going to help you with a last-minute full-fare on another airline.

 

If all you want is a point-to-point flight and have loads of time free at both ends, fine! If you are planning a connection to or from an Air Asia flight, you need to allow minimum 6 hours or more to spare – and then start praying!

[Rogie]

I loathe Air Asia.

 

Thanks for the CAPTCHA explanation.

 

Re: Air Asia. Never having flown with them I did not know anything of their reputation.

 

I noticed on my recent visit to Burma they fly the BKK - RAN route. At the time I rued not having asked my travel agent to book me with them as I suspected they'd be cheaper. Now I am glad I didn't.

[Guest]

I must have lived a sheltered life - I'm not familiar with CAPTCHA.

You are very fortunate.

In some cases, the CAPTCHA codes are so illegible it takes about 6 refreshes before there's one that can be read with any confidence.

 

Also, charging passengers per kg is not discrimination, it would be perfectly fair if they had the same cost per kg for everyone.

[pong]

boring same topic turns up every year before the ''hols'' in UK=GB. Maybe they even copycat that very same article very year.

Yes-it can be lots cheaper-IF you know and can play to their rules. never ever question them. Ive flown on at least 30+ in Europe-but around 10 of them have gone bust already.

BUT: there is a growing tendency for old-style Eyuro airlines to slowly merge the low-cost concept into their cheapest eco-seats. Latest is Lufthansa, which is to merge with its own daughter, germanwings. Or like Tg that has either given up on unprofitable short domestic routes to NOK-also a daughter.

In the US f.e. UAL has TED (or had, I cannot keep up with all of that) and has shrunk its ''service'' in domestic to near same level as EASy or the like: pay for food, pay for check luggage, pay for assigned advance seat, etc.

BTW; IN Europe the East_Eur low-costs usually offer better value for money as even RYAN, like WIZZair or Air|Baltic

[Guest thaiworthy]

boring same topic turns up every year before the ''hols'' in UK=GB. Maybe they even copycat that very same article very year.

 

Yes, boring-- but very much alive. It's sort of like paying high gas prices or 250 baht for a cocktail on Soi Twilight. Doubt if a discussion about high gas prices would change anything. If you have to get from point A to point B, it is worthy of discussion as long as there are options, but they seem to be dwindling every day.

 

I would love to see Tippi Turtle approach Ryan Air with this unlikely scenario:

 

http://youtu.be/5MI_m6McRZ8

[Guest fountainhall]

It's sort of like paying high gas prices or 250 baht for a cocktail on Soi Twilight

 

Er . . . you mean Bt. 300 + in the some go-go bars nowadays - and that's for water, Coke or a standard drink! Goodness knows what a proper cocktail costs!

[KhorTose]

 

I would love to see Tippi Turtle approach Ryan Air with this unlikely scenario:

 

 

Speaking of Turtles, is everyone familar with last years Turtle Ass Award for Air Asia. This blogger is great and I have agreed with a lot---but not all---of his observations.

 

http://bangkokbois.wordpress.com/tag/turtle-ass-awards/

[Guest thaiworthy]

Not so great in my opinion. He is insulting and arrogant, both of which I can do without.

[KhorTose]

Just when you think Air Asia could not get any worse, they have toped themselves. I wanted to look at one of their promotional fares to Macao from Chiang Mai and when I started the search I got redirected to what they call a waiting room where I waited and waited and waited. It is beyond me how this third class airlines can stay in business. Shame on Thai air and the other major eastern airlines for not being able to bury these idiots.

[Guest]

The very small number of Air Asia flights I've taken have been fine. Perhaps that's just luck.

 

Now if there is a popular route served by 2~3 low cost airlines, the airline with a dreadful reputation would only fill seats when the other planes are full or if they discount to sufficiently to compensate for the reputation. So it would be difficult for an airline with a bad reputation to make money in such circumstances.

The question is, do enough of their routes have the competition to give the consumer a choice?

[Guest fountainhall]


I wanted to look at one of their promotional fares to Macao from Chiang Mai and when I started the search I got redirected to what they call a waiting room where I waited and waited and waited. It is beyond me how this third class airlines can stay in business.

 

Rule # 2 in the running of an lcc is that the customer must be put on hold as often as possible and never be allowed to waste valuable staff time by making personal complaints by telephone. To illustrate I will retell a short story.

 

Mightily pissed off 2 years ago when Air Aisa cancelled my flights to/from Hanoi without even bothering to inform me (true!), I called the "hotline" (LOL) in Kuala Lumpur. I waited between 30 and 40 minutes on 3 separate calls (I was mad!) until I finally got a ‘voice’ giving me a series of options. No. 4 was ‘Guest Services’, so I pressed that. Another long wait – all at my expense – until eventually a lady, who turned out to be extremely pleasant, answered. I then went through my rant about how Air Asia had totally screwed up my trip and I was now forced to travel on other carriers. I wanted compensation.

 

Give the lady her due, she never once tried to contradict anything I was saying, nor interrupt. When I had finished, she merely said, “I’m so sorry to hear about your problem, but I can do nothing about it. This is Gate Operations at KIA. I have no idea why they always route customer complaints to me!”

 

I then learned that Air Asia had introduced a special premium line. At a cost of Rgt. 1.95 per minute, you were guaranteed to speak to a person, not a machine. So, I tried that line. I could never get through.

 

That’s when I started reading the small print in the airline's Terms & Conditions, and learned that any flight can be cancelled at any time for any commercial reason – that reason being the exclusive preserve of Air Asia management. That’s when I gave up flying with them.

 

Oh. And what’s Rule 1? Publish a schedule of flights, but change and cancel them at will whenever load factors are not high enough to actually fly them!

[ChristianPFC]

For flights in Europe (England-Berlin in the past, Paris-Berlin now) I mostly use low-cost airlines and they are cheaper than standard airlines. Of course, you have to know what you are doing. I don't have check-in baggage and I check size and weight of my cabin baggage. I got away a few times with oversized and overweight cabin bagge, but recently I saw them checking size and weight and collecting money and issuing receipts.

 

I don't add any insurance, no priority check in, and finally I try to find a website where I can pay by direct debit or other methods of payment other than credit card for free. Combining all this, I really get the price that is quoted at the very beginning, but it involves some experience and work!