Suvarnabhumi's New Mess

[Guest]

In the UK, they do this kind of runway maintenance at night.

Heathrow operates at almost full capacity and we have other busy airports with just one runway.

 

If your plane is the last one to land, the resurfacing equipment is all lined up ready to go the moment the plane is off the runway. The only downside is if there's a delay, your flight gets diverted to another airport.

 

The Thai airport authorities evidently don't care about their customers. This is a common trait with monopoly businesses.

[Guest fountainhall]

There's an article in the Business section of today's Bangkok Post which states delays are "mild" and "less critical than feared". Delays are apparently 13% greater than normal. It adds that the worst time period for delays is 10:00 pm to midnight when the majority of flights in and out are medium to long haul wide-bodied jets restricted to the single runway. It concedes that incoming flights have to carry more fuel to allow for delays.

 

However -

 

On Monday, United Airlines Flight 803 from Japan's Narita bound for Suvarnabhumi was diverted to Bangkok's other airport, Don Mueang, as fuel reserves ran critically low.

 

The wide-body jet refuelled at Don Mueang then flew back to Suvarnabhumi, where it resumed its normal flight schedule.

http://www.bangkokpo...y-shutdown-mild

 

The last six words are somewhat ridiculous as that aircraft spends at least 6 hours sitting at BKK before flying again to Narita early the next morning!

 

But the diversion implies a considerably longer delay than that I and atri1666 experienced earlier in the week. Since aircraft have to carry sufficient fuel to allow for some delay prior to landing and then to fly on to an alternate airport if necessary, it would be interesting to know for how long the United captain was being held before he made the decision to divert to Don Mueang. His fuel load on approach to BKK must have been sufficient to allow for Chiang Mai or Phuket as the alternate, since Don Mueang would not be acceptable if bad weather covered the city. That would mean he surely had at least a good hour (and probably more) of fuel in the tanks, of which at least 45 minutes would allow for a higher fuel burn for ascent to a much higher altitude and then a 30 minute cruise than simply circling close to an airport. I was none too happy with a 30-minute delay. The United passengers must have experienced a total delay of at least 2 hours prior to arrival!

[Guest fountainhall]

A Bangkok Post front-page article on Suvarnabhumi has finally indicated that there may well be more wrong with Suvarnabhumi’s runways than we have hitherto been told. I have repeatedly suggested that closing each runway for 8 weeks of resurfacing makes absolutely no sense. It indicates either that the airport authority is deliberately saving cash by having not having the work done overnight, as is common with all other international dual runway airports, or that there is something more seriously wrong with the runways that requires more detailed and intricate work.

 

The runway presently under resurfacing (reconstruction??) is the eastern one. So all double aisle aircraft must use the western one, as must single aisle aircraft for landings. Today comes news that the western runway had to be closed for more than an hour yesterday when it was discovered that a 3,600 sq. cms section had sunk 5 cms around 8:00 pm last night. This caused delays to over 200 flights and forced 11 aircraft to divert to 3 other airports – Don Mueang, U-tapao and Chiang Mai. The repair took one hour.

 

The airport’s general manager insisted the problem was due to the heavy use of the western runway during the closure of the eastern one. Most in the international airline business do not agree. Questions are now finally being asked about the technology and the quality of the materials used when constructing the runways.

 

Thailand-based managers for international airlines said they were astonished by the large number of ''soft surface'' problems.

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/301330/airport-says-runway-subsidence-just-wear-and-tear

 

The article also points out that the resurfacing of the western runway has been postponed to next year. So we can look forward to yet another 8 weeks of delays, especially in the peak 10:00pm - midnight period.

[Guest fountainhall]

And the criticism of the AoT management and the runway closures just keeps on coming.

 

The Bangkok Post today advises that the congestion resulting from the closure of the Eastern runway for most flights has led to wider effects than mere flight delays.

 

Tourism operators have reported a drop in the number of foreign visitors arriving in Thailand, and electronics manufacturers have complained of late shipments of materials.

 

Air passengers, meanwhile, have raised doubts over the capability of airport executives to effectively manage the number of airlines scrambling for space on the reduced runway capacity.

 

Most importantly, safety concerns have arisen after damage was also found recently on the western runway, which was not the subject of the maintenance closures.

 

And sure enough, drip by drip, the AoT releases information showing that all is not what they have to date claimed. The runway closures were, we were informed, routine. Yet now the AoT airport director claims

 

. . . the repairs were absolutely necessary at this time because attempts to repair the runway damage in 2011 were repeatedly delayed

 

Oh really? What damage? And why were they “repeatedly delayed?” No doubt that will eventually come out with the next drip of information.

 

The initially compliant and uncomplaining Chairwoman of the Airline Operators Committee (AOC), Marisa Pongpattanapun, is now starting to change her tune and is demanding answers. The article quotes her as saying -

 

The AoT should have informed airlines six months to a year before the repairs began so they could reduce their flights to keep impacts to a minimum . . . "Instead, the airlines were told only three months before. That was too short a time to adjust flight schedules because air tickets were already sold," she said.

 

Tourism operators have also expressed dissatisfaction with the handling of the repairs and resultant impacts.

 

"It's fine for the AoT to care about safety standards, but it should have come up with better plans to curb the impacts on aviation and other business sectors," Tourism Council of Thailand president Piyaman Tejapaibul said . . . "There has been a lack of integration between the state and private sectors in regard to this repair operation and it has led to vast impacts," she said.

 

Thailand has lost tourism revenue as a result, Ms Piyaman said. For example, 10 chartered flights from China were cancelled recently because the airport could not arrange flight schedules for them.

http://www.bangkokpo...-runway-repairs

 

And still no-one has questioned why a runway has to be closed for 8 weeks when other international airports manage whilst still operating flights through most of each day.

[Guest fountainhall]

Drip . . .drip . . .!

 

Just read The Nation which has another front-page story with yet more information I for one was not aware of about BKK. We have always been told that the airport is already operating beyond capacity. Were you aware, though, that whilst the runways – when both are in operation - can handle 76 flights per hour or 1,824 flights per day,

 

". . . the control tower has the capacity to handle only 60 flights per hour or 1,440 flights per day," said Somchai Sawasdeepon, director of Suvarnabhumi Airport.

 

http://www.nationmul...l-30185754.html

 

So if BKK were actually operating at capacity, the through flow of passengers could be well over 20% greater than at present!

 

He then talks about “the limited capacity of the airport's aeronautical radio and technology,” before making the silly claim –

 

Somchai said that closing Suvarnabhumi's eastern runway has little impact in terms of delayed flight landings, as the temporary changes only affect flights taking off.

 

The Nation makes a good job of interviewing some Thai passengers whose flights were delayed prior to landing - in one case by almost 2 hours. Khun Somchai’s comments also negate what he and the AoT have earlier said – that there are indeed delays on flights landing in the peak 10:00 pm to midnight slot!

 

Ah well! TIT! I really wonder how anyone can have much faith any more in the AoT.

[Guest fountainhall]

Drip . . . drip . . .

 

The editorial in today’s Bangkok Post slams the AoT for its handling of the spate of “disasters” which have hit Suvarnabhumi this year. It goes on to blame not only the airport’s GM, but also the Prime Minister, for continuously describing the situation as “normal”. As for last week’s subsidence –

 

This is an astounding attitude. There is nothing "normal" in world airport operations about delays and diversions of 200-plus arrivals and departures. Mr Somchai's reassurance was that the runway subsidence was because of wear and tear.

 

But what is decidedly not normal is the lack of maintenance which allows a sudden subsidence of a runway – an obvious danger to aircraft and passengers . . .

 

From a safety standpoint, it was a good job. From every other possible view, it was a failure – of maintenance, planning and, now, public relations.

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/301869/wrong-tack-on-suvarnabhumi

 

The editorial and another article take to task the systems providing power to the control tower. Apparently there was no audible or aural warning to advise staff that the main power source had kicked out. Inexplicably, none of the staff was aware that the emergency source kicked in. So when that back-up power ran out, they were all basically headless chickens!

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/301867/no-blame-for-airport-error

 

Unbelievable that this should occur at a major international airport!

[Guest fountainhall]

Once again, for those arriving at BKK late in the evening, be prepared for long delays. Friends arriving last night from Hong Kong had to circle around for a full 90 minutes prior to landing. A quick look at the Suvarnabhumi website this morning also shows that 8 flights arriving between 11:45pm and 12:50am were subject to what it terms “excessive” delays of more than 45 minutes. Another 2 were subject to 30 – 45 minute delays.

 

And this is what the Airport Management and the Prime Minister call “normal”? My friends call it "banana republic"!

[TMax]

Gawd you would think that one day they will work out how to fix it but then it would take years to put any plan into action, thank god I haven't been affected yet.

[Guest fountainhall]

Drip . . . drip . . .

 

For those who have written before that their experience passing through Suvarnabhumi has been good and have occasionally expressed surprise that some of us constantly criticize it, perhaps this article from Asia Sentinel will help change minds –

 

“Bangkok’s Airport of Smiles in Crisis”

“Substandard construction, inadequate design, cause delays, frustrate millions”.

 

(Asia Sentinel is an independent news platform to provide information about governments and nations in the region. Its editors include Philip Bowring, who for years was the editor of the highly respected Far East Economic Review prior to its demise some years ago, and former writers for Newsweek, the Asian Wall street Journal and Hong Kong’s Standard newspaper).

 

In a scathing article about Suvarnabhumi, it takes the gloves off about the construction (“riddled with corruption and mismanagement”), its opening (“a near legend for frustrated travellers”) and its present state. Opened only in 2006, "the west runway (the one still in operation) was closed for repairs 209 times last year and 55 times since the start of this year." And what of the subsistence which recently closed that runway?

 

There are growing fears, however, that piles which were sunk deep into the ground to support the runways on the waterlogged ground weren’t long enough . . .

 

The subsoil is of major concern. The average Boeing 747-800*, weighing nearly 340 tonnes, slams into a runway at a speed of 188 kilometers per hour. An Airbus A380 double-decker weighs in at 590 tonnes. At full capacity, the airport is designed to handle 76 flight operations per hour. Scores of planes land at Suvarnabhumi every day, with even single-aisle jets weighing 100 to 200 tonnes. 



 

“A runway failure of this type should not be misconstrued as the problem,” wrote the engineer on the Thai Visa Forum website. ”A runway failure such as this is a symptom of a much greater problem, caused by a couple of likely sources. The higher probability is that inferior foundations are the most likely symptom… Less likely is an inferior runway slab itself….The key is the foundation.”

 

http://www.asiasenti...4687&Itemid=437

 

Not all of this is new, admittedly. But it is an indication of the PR damage now being done around the region with the constant drip of bad news seemingly unchecked.

 

Whatever the gravity of the problems, if the airport does not get a grip of its public relations team and start developing a more positive spin on the constant flow of bad news, the world’s media and their investigative reporters are going to start paying attention. Once that happens, the time for spin will have run out and confidence in what should be one of the most sparkling, efficient and safe new airports will quickly suffer.

 

* Note: The 747-800 is the latest 747 model with a longer upper deck than the much more common 747-400. It has only been available since September 2011 in a freighter version and since April 2012 in the passenger version. Whilst it is possible that one or two may have already landed at BKK, it is more likely the writer was referring to landings by this particular aircraft in coming years.

[Rogie]

The subsoil is of major concern. The average Boeing 747-800*, weighing nearly 340 tonnes, slams into a runway at a speed of 188 kilometers per hour. An Airbus A380 double-decker weighs in at 590 tonnes. At full capacity, the airport is designed to handle 76 flight operations per hour. Scores of planes land at Suvarnabhumi every day, with even single-aisle jets weighing 100 to 200 tonnes. 


 

Whatever the gravity of the problems . . .

 

Never was a truer word spoken! Now if only we could find a way to ease those 590 tonnes onto the tarmac on a cushion of air everything'd be just fine. Fine in the way the Thais like it, without any problems or recriminations.

 

Whilst not addressing the problem of an aircraft coming in to land, here's an interesting description of weightlessness in reduced gravity aircraft.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ravity_aircraft

 

As to whether gravity can be defied here's a link to a Guardian article from 2002:

 

http://www.guardian....ration.netnotes

 

If you can't be bothered or aren't interested in that kind of thing, let me save you the trouble. It concludes by saying:

 

However, if it was possible, such energy would be needed to achieve it, that any anti-gravity device would probably be weighed down by the means of creating it. But if all this anti-gravity talk has inspired you, then there is always a human option open to you: yogic flying.

 

And don't worry, I'm not into yogic flying, whatever that turns out to be - surely if it really exists we'd all be doing it. Who doesn't envy the bird its freedom - although when you see a big one like a stork or pelican coming in to landing on water, they're a bit like the avian equivalent of the A380, they make a pretty big splash.

 

______________________________________________________

 

Does the A380 actually fly into Bangkok?

[ChristianPFC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_gravity_aircraft :

 

The 1999 pornographic film The Uranus Experiment 1 had scenes filmed on such an aircraft; it is notable for containing the first instance of zero-gravity sex caught on film.

 

I always wondered what sex without gravity would be like, just imagine total freedom in position, every part of the body accessible from everywhere.

[Guest fountainhall]

Does the A380 actually fly into Bangkok?

 

Emirates has a daily A380 service from/to Dubai which continues on to Hong Kong. It's been running for almost 2 years now. TG's first A380 is due for delivery within the next few weeks.

 

I always wondered what sex without gravity would be like

 

A bit of a problem, I'd imagine. You'd need to find a lot of leverage somewhere or you'd not be able to do much at all

[Guest fountainhall]

I have been looking at the real-time daily arrivals/departures listing on the Suvarnabhumi website. To be fair, now that the eastern runway is open again for all flights (apart from the A380), the number and length of delays has been considerably reduced. Many flights out of Hong Kong have been badly delayed in the last 36 hours, but that is due to the typhoon there; not BKK's runway issues.