Suvarnabhumi's New Mess

[Guest fountainhall]

And some dum---s have suggested elsewhere that additional manpower and the new snake system in the Departures area has, at a stroke of Thaiworthy's wand (the magic one, I hasten to add ), solved what were not really problems at BKK in the first place - and it really is a well-functioning airport!! Bullfuc--ngsh-t!

 

I arrived back on a full Emirates A380 around 12:20 a.m. this morning. Fast track was in operation, but with one desk manned and several dozen premium passengers coming off that Emirates flight alone, you can guess how that queue built up.

 

For the economy punters, inexplicably and utterly stupidly, with the airport having introduced the successful snake system for Departures, Arrivals is still the same old take-your-pick-and-hope-he's-fast gamble. Why? What f---ing idiots in the AOT decided that one system works for Departures but not for Arrivals?

 

That rant off my back, the queues seemed not too bad - down to around 20 minutes or so by the time my bag came up and I was off to the public taxis. Now, I have never - ever - had to wait more than about 5 minutes for a public cab, no matter what time I arrive. This morning just before 1:00 am., the queue was all around the outside of the building and stretched back into it!

 

One look, and I was off upstairs to Arrivals to catch one there. But have you ever tried to get from ground level at the airport up to Arrivals? They have all these escalators, all these fancy long winding moving walkways going in both directions - but they're mostly for coming down! Try going up! it's like some utterly ridiculous video game where, at almost ever turn, some official is blocking your path or escalators which are supposed to go up are deliberately switched off!

 

Had I been thinking properly, I would just have gone straight ahead across to the car park, taken a lift up and then walked back into the terminal. But at 1:00am after several heavy days and a drink or two on the flight, I was desperately tired and not of sound mind. So I tried to find a way to solve these ridiculous problems. And as each time something was blocked or officialdom appeared and said "No!", as I seemed to criss-cross more of BKK's utterly idiotic lower floors, I got more and more pissed off. Furious, more like it!

 

Eventually, I found one lift which would stop at Departures level. Just one - but even that had buttons blocked off so it would not take you to the public Arrivals area! WHY? Why in the name of the Good Lord, of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, of Buddha et al, do the AOT make it all but impossible to get from Ground Level to the public Arrivals area? It makes not one shred of sense.

 

I have said it before and I say it again: the AOT is a bunch of incompetent idiots who haven't the faintest idea of what running an airport is all about from the perspective of the passenger. No doubt, it may seem to function reasonably well to the occasional punter who pops in and out one or two times a year. For those who have to use it on a more regular basis, it is the fu--ing pits!

 

And for those who ask the inevitable question? Why not take the train? Because the idiots who run that service stop it at midnight! That's why!

 

Warning for those arriving over Songkran

 

Finally home and in need of a stiff Scotch to calm me down, I realised that, of course, the reason for the trickle of public taxis is that this is Songkran week. So there will be fewer drivers around, especially at times when there are not many departures as some drivers will already have returned home for the holidays. Would you think a responsible airport management warn its customers of this and perhaps lay on more coaches? Of course! But remember, I did say "responsible"!

 

Help, please! Where'e my Easter bunny to cheer me up?

[Guest]

I still think multiple queues are better than the snake system. The experienced traveller will identify a short queue with 2 counters open, so will gain a slight advantage here. The dopey ones will just join a long queue and do no harm.

Now switch to a snake & the dopey travellers will meander to the front of it and waste time by not proceeding to an empty counter in a timely fashion, therefore blocking the queue for everyone.

 

As for the escalators, what idiot decided to design long diagonal escalators with horizontal parts in the middle? The idea of an escalator is to move large numbers of people quickly between floors. Therefore it needs to go up at a steep angle & ideally runs as swiftly as possible too. Horizontal sections are totally pointless.

[Guest fountainhall]

The experienced traveller will identify a short queue with 2 counters open, so will gain a slight advantage here. The dopey ones will just join a long queue and do no harm.

Sorry, z, I don't agree with your 'survival of the smartest' suggestion. Yes, in theory it works, but like so many things with airports, theory goes out the window when it comes to practice.

 

E.g. say there are 4 queues. You chose the one on the left because it is the shortest. Then Immigration, in their weird wisdom, decide to open up a new queue on the right. Mad dash from the closest queue. End result - you are now left in the longest one!

 

In my experience, the snake system with an efficient despatcher (to make sure there is always one person waiting whilst another is being served) will always be more efficient and more fair. The key, though, is the efficiency of the despatcher. Departing BKK 2 weeks ago, I was pleased to note the despatcher was very efficient.

[Bob]

My condolences as you apparently have to go through there a whole lot of times per year.

 

I (so far) have been lucky and that may be due to the arrival time (about 11:15AM) or departure time (4:30PM) and, for sure, part of it is that I only do each of those once a year nowhere near peak travel times.

[Guest joseph44]

As for the escalators, what idiot decided to design long diagonal escalators with horizontal parts in the middle? The idea of an escalator is to move large numbers of people quickly between floors. Therefore it needs to go up at a steep angle & ideally runs as swiftly as possible too. Horizontal sections are totally pointless.

 

If they built the escalators as you describe them, everybody with a trolley have to use the elevator; this means: long waiting rows at that point.

[Guest fountainhall]

As for the escalators, what idiot decided to design long diagonal escalators with horizontal parts in the middle?

 

Probably the same idiot who felt that passengers could move their trolleys faster at those horizontal points and so help speed up traffic flow! Pity no other idiot looked at Narita and other airports to see that new breeds of trolley do not permit trolley movement of any kind on moving escalators. Which is precisely the type of trolley in use now at BKK. So you are just stuck on those horizontal sections. Even if you do not have a trolley, there is no room to get past the people in front of you. It's nuts!

 

Frankly, these long moving downwards walkways are accidents waiting to happen. Because the trolley literally is immobile on the walkway, many passengers do not realise that you still have to propel them off the walkway. If not, they get stuck at the end. Once some stupid woman was chatting to another stupid woman, their trolley stuck but they kept moving - into it! They tried to push it - but you have to push down on the handlebar first. Thankfully there was no-one immediately behind and so only the two stupid women got slightly hurt.

 

More recently, though, the walkway was packed. One African lady with an overloaded trolley did realise she had to push it off at the end. However, she used only one hand and the trolley turned turtle. Instead of just getting out of the way, this idiot (sorry, overuse of that word today, but it always comes to mind when I talk about BKK) tried to retrieve her big bags - and all the time other trolleys and people were being propelled off the walkway. There was a pile up - and nobody did anything to stop that damn stupid walkway! If just kept churning trolleys and bodies into this woman's overturned trolley and her bags.

 

BKK's Arrivals area has always been a disaster. When it was designed, the intention was to have an area at least 3 times as large by extending it and covering it almost up to the first vehicle drive-through payment. Then they decided to save money and cut the area to its present idiotic size. Later, the AOT and some other idiot Minister of Transport realised the Arrivals area was in fact too small. So they came up with another idiotic decision to save all the bother with taxis by not having any at the airport at all! They'd make all arriving passengers take buses over to a transportation centre, de-bus and get taxis from there.

 

By the time the media got wind of this only a few weeks before the scheduled opening, there was such an outcry that the Ministry and the AOT had to backtrack and allow taxi departures from the airport after all - but without the necessary space this would require! For this to occur in an old, over-capacity, much enlarged airport might - and I mean might - be acceptable. For it to happen at a spanking new airport is an utter disgrace.

[Guest fountainhall]

As is known, I am a fan of Don Mueang and I am not a fan of Suvarnabhumi (but only because of its faults which could be solved if the AOT really put its mind to them). My short Nok Air trip to Chiang Mai at the week-end was a total breeze. From arrival at the airport, through bag check, check-in, security check to arrival at the gate - barely 10 minutes. Both flights departed bang on time and arrived early.

 

Now Thai Air Asia which has 25,000 take-offs and landings per week is being wooed to move to DMK with a host of incentives. These are in addition to the 30% cost savings achieved by operating out of DMK instead of BKK. Admittedly, it will only relieve BKK of 2 million international passengers and leave it operating way over capacity. But it would be a start.

 

http://www.bangkokpo...a-to-don-mueang

 

The congestion and increasingly negative comments about Suvarnabhumi are finally starting to have an effect on the airport's rankings. Two years ago, BKK came 10th in the annual Skytrax rankings. Last year, it slipped to 13. Now it is down at 25.

 

The Skytrax polls are the most internationally recognised indicators of the travelling public's opinions.

 

The survey was conducted during nine months, covering 12 million passengers in 388 airports worldwide. It evaluated traveller experiences across 39 different airport service and product factors, such as getting to and from the airport, terminal comfort, check-in, immigration, cleanliness, standards of disabled access and facilities, baggage and safety.

 

http://www.bangkokpo...irport-rankings

 

The top airports in this year’s rankings announced on April 19 are –

 

1. Seoul Incheon

2. Singapore Changi

3. Hong Kong

4. Amsterdam Schipol

5. Beijing Capital International

6. Munich

7. Zurich

8. Kuala Lumpur

9. Vancouver

10. Nagoya Central Japan International Airport

[Bob]

I am a fan of Don Mueang and I am not a fan of Suvarnabhumi

 

If you would have gone from international to domestic or vice-versa, you wouldn't have been. I hated Don Mueang for that reason alone.....the thousand yard walk through the allegedly air-conditioned elevated tunnel. In Swampy, going from domestic to international and vice-versa is easier than in any airport I've ever used (well, other than the Chiangmai airport).

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps I should have been more accurate - I am a fax of DMK compared to BKK as they are now!

 

I did do a transfer a few times at the old Don Mueang. I agree about that horrible tunnel. There was an air-coditioned transfer bus, but I ended up just taking a cheap taxi!

[TMax]

My main gripe with Suvarnabhumi is on arrival I have to get on a frigging bus to go from the plane to the arrivals terminal and it doesn't seem to matter what time the flight gets in (Thai Airways flights always) nor where it came from... This has happened every time I have flown into Bangkok (Don Mueang included) so I'm guessing that it must just be the way it's done there...

[Guest fountainhall]

My main gripe with Suvarnabhumi is on arrival I have to get on a frigging bus to go from the plane to the arrivals terminal and it doesn't seem to matter what time the flight gets in (Thai Airways flights always) nor where it came from

 

I rarely take THAI, and when I have, only one has ever arrived at a bridge gate. Part of the problem is that Suvarnabhumi just does not have enough bridge gates. No doubt the designers thought they had enough, but the original designs were done decades ago. Part could also be gate allocation which I believe is usually done by the airport rather than the airline.

 

And then I assume no-one bothered to consider the effect of the explosion of low cost carriers. These now account for a large number of daily flights, and whilst they usually park at bus gates, that is far from always the case.

 

It maddened me when I arrived back on a full TG A340 from Shanghai 18 months ago and we had to take a bus. At least a dozen bridge gates on that side of the airport were empty, and a couple of the others had Air Asia planes at them! But the A340 probably had no outbound flight for a few hours, and so there was no need for it to be at a bridge gate to pick up passengers.

 

This is where airlines making transit stops benefit. They are normally wide-bodies and need to turn their flights around in about an hour. So speed is essential. Too much time is wasted if the aircraft can not be parked at a bridge.

[Guest]

I think the world needs to be introduced to the concept of multiple competing terminal airports.

 

The existing terminal could be run by AOT, then a couple of competing multi national operators could open terminals 2 & 3.

Then all they need is luggage and boarding cards to have some kind of rfid tags so that the movement between operators could be logged (to correctly assing liability for lost bags & the like). Also if an independent operator wants to invest in a competing runway, even better.

 

Then allow the airlines to go to whichever terminalco offers the best deal.

[Guest thaiworthy]

My main gripe with Suvarnabhumi is on arrival I have to get on a frigging bus to go from the plane to the arrivals terminal and it doesn't seem to matter what time the flight gets in (Thai Airways flights always) nor where it came from... This has happened every time I have flown into Bangkok (Don Mueang included) so I'm guessing that it must just be the way it's done there...

 

I asked that very question at the airport. I hate the bus, too. They told me it was cheaper for them to do it that way.

[Bob]

I asked that very question at the airport. I hate the bus, too. They told me it was cheaper for them to do it that way.

 

That's what I understood....some airlines avoid using the gates because of the cost. Everytime I get bussed, there are plenty of open gates so I don't think that seems to matter. I've bitched before about coming from CNX on a loaded 747 and, even though there were 17 open gates, they bussed us to the terminal.

[Guest fountainhall]

I know that at some airports, bus gates are cheaper for the airline than airbridge gates. Not sure if this is the case at BKK or not. If it is, then all lcc flights would surely insist on being at bus gates. But I have often seen lcc flights at airbridge gates. So the airport must have a major say in who parks where.

 

I tried to find out more by checking on flyertalk.com, but with no success so far. One point that was raised in a forum is the issue of passengers connecting from international to domestic, and that when this occurs, it is more usual for TG flights to park at bus gates. I simply cannot understand why this should be a valid reason, but I have never used the transit facilities.

[Guest anonone]

I know that at some airports, bus gates are cheaper for the airline than airbridge gates. Not sure if this is the case at BKK or not. If it is, then all lcc flights would surely insist on being at bus gates. But I have often seen lcc flights at airbridge gates. So the airport must have a major say in who parks where.

 

I tried to find out more by checking on flyertalk.com, but with no success so far. One point that was raised in a forum is the issue of passengers connecting from international to domestic, and that when this occurs, it is more usual for TG flights to park at bus gates. I simply cannot understand why this should be a valid reason, but I have never used the transit facilities.

 

There are a lot of factors at play in determining gate vs. remote parking for aircraft. It will vary by airline and the various agreements that are in place for services with the airport. Some airlines would have paid a "lease" for gates and would control how they are used. Other airlines use whatever gates are open...or remote stands if no gates available.

 

Aircraft utilization is one factor. For example with Thai airways, if the plane is coming in from international destination but the next leg is a domestic run, it is much easier to use a remote stand and buses. Arriving passengers are bused to the immigration area in the International section and departing passengers are bused from the domestic area to the plane. Otherwise, the plane would have to be towed from the international gate to the domestic gate if sky bridges were to be used.

 

Also, If a plane is going to sit at BKK for extended time, it would be more common to use remote stands so as to not tie up a gate.

[Guest fountainhall]

SInce transferring between flights has been raised and was one of the original reasons for having just one airport that would handle all flights in and out of Bangkok, here's one dissatisfied customer. This from a Skytrax site review dated 2 May 2012 -

 

The worst feature by far is the ridiculous transfer counter system which the airlines and counters split at either ends of the airport . . . It's 'H' shape means walking 900m+ from one end to the other if transferring

http://www.airlinequ...rum/bkk-suv.htm

 

And this from a review of 25 April 2012 -

 

Add to this long corridors to reach the gate, and few seating areas (everywhere it is crammed with overpriced "Duty Free" shops - charging about 30% more than Bangkok High street - and you have a contender for "worst airport in SEA"

 

Little wonder BKK is quickly slipping down the 'best airport' charts.

[Guest fountainhall]

The complaints on the Skytrax site keep on coming. Here's the latest from an Australian which is dated 4th May -

 

There are serious problems with huge delays at Immigration both directions. I shuffled and staggered in an arrivals 'mob' for 2 hours. One poor lady just in front of me reached the Immigration counter and was sent away (to the end) because she had not held onto to her Boarding Pass from the flight she just arrived on. By the way, I didn't have mine either but was in the next line and not asked.

 

Since other passengers have found Immigration much faster, it would seem that the peaks and troughs have still not been ironed out. But the comment raises one issue which some may not realise. Immigration does have the right to demand to see your Boarding Pass, so it is useful to have it handy when you get to the desk.

[Bob]

Would note that it only took 2-3 minutes to get through immigration going out of Thailand on Tuesday (about 1:30PM). All the booths were manned (they even have a few added ones on the left and right) and I think I had one person ahead of me in the line I chose. And, yes, they did ask to see my boarding pass (don't remember that from before).

[Guest fountainhall]

they did ask to see my boarding pass (don't remember that from before).

 

Sorry, Bob. They always ask for the Boarding Pass on exit and then mark your flight on the exit stamp. It's on entry that they often ignore that regulation.

[Guest thaiworthy]

Sorry, Bob. They always ask for the Boarding Pass on exit and then mark your flight on the exit stamp. It's on entry that they often ignore that regulation.

 

I can see how that could be the case.

 

Tsk, tsk. Bob doesn't know if he's coming or going. But I like that in a man, especially in bed.

[Guest fountainhall]

Yet more developments at BKK - this time involving a change in the security arrangements.

 

First of all, security screening was done at the entrance to the various piers causing no end of hassle and delays to flights. When the AOT realised that people who had bought bottles of water and other drinks pre-screening had to trash them, they had a re-think. So security checks were then moved back to the narrow bridges linking passport control with the departure area. Problem is - these became bottlenecks in their own right because the areas are much too small. Besides, there is a growing trend now to get security dealt with first prior to passport control - as at Hong Kong.

 

So AOT has come up with a new solution which will go into practise in about a month's time, we are told. As there is no other available space at departures level, they have built a new mezzanine floor above the existing departures level. So, once the new space is open, passengers will have check-in, go up an escalator, through the new security check-point, down another escalator and then go through passport control. It's all going to be a bit like a game of snakes and ladders!

 

I'm reserving judgement till it's up and running. I just wonder what will happen when the escalators break down!

 

Good news is that the airport will have free wi-fi for all passengers. The bad news is that passengers will have to wait till some time next year when the contract with the existing supplier runs out!!

 

http://www.bangkokpo...-screening-zone

[Guest fountainhall]

I'll pass on facts - with only one comment this time. Departed last Saturday for Kong Kong. West Immigration area now closed for upgrading, but queues in the Central area were reasonable. Most desks manned and all but one of the security lines in operation. Flight departed 20 minutes late. This was due to the inevitable congestion resulting from the closure of one runway for several weeks.

 

Returned early this morning when the plane had to go into a stack twice - again due to runway congestion. As a result, landed 30 minutes late. One people-mover on the way to Immigration is completely boxed off making for a long walk. Immigration queues again not unreasonable. But on GB's site, I note that one poster mentions that Arrivals queues on Sunday 9th were very bad with a wait of one hour.

 

On the escalators down to the public taxis, was surprised my (new) trolley started moving on its own! Had to keep a firm hold - first time that's happened. Plenty of taxis - no waiting.

[atri1666]

Today coming back from CNX we also had 30 Min. delay. When i arrived in LOS 10th june immigration was the hell. Had luck with fasttrack (1 minute) but at my belt was before a flight from Dubai and there just had been all luggage. I asked one man and he told me he needed more than one hour.

[Guest fountainhall]

Looking at flyertalk and other related forums, it seems 30 minutes is about the average delay. I'd love to know why it is necessary to close a runway to all wide-bodies jets for eight weeks whilst single aisle aircraft can take-off but not land. I've never heard of it anywhere else!

 

Presumably once the east one is completed, it will be another six weeks whilst they resurface the west one. Can you imagine Heathrow, Singapore Hong Kong or any other major international airport with just two effective runways operating on a single runway for all of three months? What about London's Gatwick which has only one, yet serves over 32 million passengers annually, the largest single runway operation in the world. Perhaps a poster on one flyer forum was correct - "That's what you get for building an airport on a swamp!"

 

As far as I am aware, such work is normally carried out elsewhere at night, when you can see a whole section of the runway lit up by bright arc lights. Yet, when I arrived around 00:40 on Wednesday, the east runway seemed dark. Either they can't afford the overtime rates or they don't care much about their passengers . Judging from the way they allowed the Immigration problem to build up to such a mess over several years, I'd suggest the latter!

 

This sees to be borne out by the care they put in to their website. Want to find out news about the closure? The last news item is dated 18 March 2010!

 

http://www.airportsuvarnabhumi.com/category/suvarnabhumi-airport/