This is a suck ass site

[Guest]

Please don't escalate the bun fight.....

 

As for "human rights" of members, some people set their expectations way too high.

Forums are not some taxpayer funded media organisation that are under an obligation to be perfectly fair, liberal and consistent.

In some cases, the forum may be 100% funded and managed by one person as a service to the community. In other cases, the forum could be run as a small business.

Ultimately, the board owners have the right to run the forums as they like, taking as much or as little advice as they see fit.

Overall, the result is reasonably fair & consistent moderation within most forums.

However, as people are doing the moderation in their spare time, there's always going to be a limit to the amount of time they can spend checking out an issue.

 

Finally, if that's not good enough, gaycedricthailand, gayknorthosethailand or gayz909thailand domain names are probably all available for us to try on our own.

 

As for examples of heavy handed moderation, I once joined a forum for a completely different subject matter. After spending about 45 minutes looking for certain information without success, I started a thread with a question along the lines of "which is the best ...... for.......".

The moderators deleted my post on the grounds that this topic had already been covered.

I said no problems, please could you show me where. No answer. On ex member.

[Gaybutton]

Please don't escalate the bun fight.....

 

If that happens, it won't come from me. I've said my piece on this subject and have nothing to add to what I've already said. I'll resist the temptation to respond to the attack responses I fully expect to come from the usual suspects, one of which already has appeared.

[kokopelli]

Will the usual suspects please stand up and speak up.

 

 

"the usual suspects" Captain Louis Renault, Casablanca

[TotallyOz]

Will the usual suspects please stand up and speak up.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of:

[Bob]

No its not its like saying any community is a rowdy rude live healthy pleasant and nasty place to be in. No one honestly joins a forum and just starts raging at any particular poster or the entire forum, that would indicate mental health issues

 

I'm not so sure about your thought that there aren't raving wackos constantly attempting to peck away at some of the boards. Good moderation, however, keeps that under control. Sort of like mom or dad when the kiddies start fighting.

 

Sometimes I don't think that the advocates of "free speech" on message boards understand that the normal social controls that modify behavior just don't work (or don't work well) on the internet. Back in your hometown or in your school or in your home or in your workplace, there exists a whole range of human behaviors that actually modify the comments and behavior of jerks, rude ones, wackos, or whatever. Even with a group of strangers conversing, there's a whole range of human reactions (from body language, isolation, telling somebody to "fuck off", and, in the worst scenario, ultimately tossing somebody out the door with or without a broken nose) which modify behaviors. In other words, almost all of these total idiots wouldn't have the balls to behave in normal society as they do on the message boards. In a away, they are cowards in real life (having learned through experience how people react to their petty nonsense) but all of a sudden can be "brave" (but still idiots) on a message board and nobody (other, ultimately, than a moderator) can cause them to modify their behavior.

 

You've mentioned that Sawatdee has changed.....less petty fighting, I imagine....and that is due to moderation. That's fine by me as I quit posting there a couple of years ago because of the morons being given free range to disrupt and totally alter the character of that board. And I wasn't the only regular poster who exited when the food fight began. You may want to sift through the crap (hundreds of posts) that was being spewed out by just 3 or 4 posters but I didn't so I left. If there's some reasonable moderation now, maybe I'll consider rejoining the fray over there.

 

I happen to like the normal social controls and human reactions that modify people's behavior in real life and real time. But, since we can't have that on the internet, then next best thing in my view is some reasonable moderation. And, like mom and dad attempting to keep their kiddies in line occasionally, they're not going to get it right some of the time. Fine by me.

[Guest Cedric]

As for "human rights" of members, some people set their expectations way too high.

Forums are not some taxpayer funded media organisation that are under an obligation to be perfectly fair, liberal and consistent.

In some cases, the forum may be 100% funded and managed by one person as a service to the community. In other cases, the forum could be run as a small business.

Ultimately, the board owners have the right to run the forums as they like, taking as much or as little advice as they see fit.

 

Hmmm yes I suppose I am talking about forums as a concept rather than as pet project attracting a very small clique of posters.

 

But wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that if it's a successful forum that's wanted especially to those who finance it that it's best to apply as many winning formulas to the project as possible?

 

Thats why looking at other boards for example is so instructive and im sure this board at set up and in the future would be no exception to that.

 

I dont believe one needs to be a tax payer to not have ones basic human rights abused. I dont think you quite understand anyway, but I mean things like racism, hate speech, discrimination against sexual orientation sex and health status etc etc and not as in the right to housing, health care blah blah, in context to forums and boards of course.

 

I think these are basic human right and no one IMO (most importantly) should be subjected to these on a forum whoever sets them up. I suppose you will find forums for right wing Nazi's homophobes too but again and only IMO they should be disrupted hacked and neutralised.

 

In a sense forums are definitely public places. If a board is discriminatory in any way I disagree with the way they are going about it.

 

A completely different but just as interesting a subject for discussion perhaps is how commercial interests affect boards, moderation and ultimately the success of a board.

 

Of course this is all academic and perhaps it behoves me to say though Im sure it can't be necessary but that in no way have I used this board as an example in any of this discussion, so if any nerves are tweaked, it's of course entirely unintentional.

[KhorTose]

Of course, if I ever apply to be burned at the stake instead, I have no doubt you'll be right there volunteering to light the match.

 

 

No way would I volunteer. I am too lazy to stand in a line that goes around the block.

[Guest Cedric]

Finally, if that's not good enough, gaycedricthailand, gayknorthosethailand or gayz909thailand domain names are probably all available for us to try on our own.

 

 

This does make a rather interesting point.

 

During and often after a major disruption of a board and if it continues under different management moderators etc this only applies to successful boards, people tend to splinter and move away and a myriad of other boards appear but they never quite recapture the original community they loved and hoped for, so in a sense the most successful outcome is then if all those splinter boards joined up

[Guest Cedric]

No way would I volunteer. I am too lazy to stand in a line that goes around the block.

 

bahaha, Im amused (not at GB expense.) I hardly know them.

[KhorTose]

In a sense forums are definitely public places. If a board is discriminatory in any way I disagree with the way they are going about it.

 

Cedric, I can't quite agree with this. Yes, I hate discrimination of any kind, but I love freedom of sppech far more then I hate discrimination. Now do not get me wrong in that I would allow anything on any board. That is not what I am saying, but if you set up a homophobe Nazi board, it is your board and you have every right to kick gays off. The same kind of rule applies to a gay board, in that you may kick your Nazis off.

A good board and good moderation is one that is set up with specific rules and those rules are followed. It can have rules against flaming, trolling, and how many post you may publish and still be a good board. BAD MODERATION, is when the board has a set of rules and they are not followed, and or the person running the board wants everyone to agree with him/her and won't tolerate opposing views as he/she view any criticism, as a personal attack. Per Z909 I will not give examples.

[Guest fountainhall]

A completely different but just as interesting a subject for discussion perhaps is how commercial interests affect boards, moderation and ultimately the success of a board.

 

Interesting suggestion. Maybe you should start a new thread. Some Boards depend at least to some extent on advertising. I wonder if that affects their policy and moderation? This Board, I think, is different from most others we've been referring to in that the Message Board is only a small part of a much larger site which is in the process of major reconstruction. It seems to me that the information and dating part of the site is/will be more important in the overall scheme of things. But we don't yet know the Board owners' plans.

 

In a sense forums are definitely public places. If a board is discriminatory in any way I disagree with the way they are going about it.

 

Not really true. Most Boards, as I know them, are essentially 'clubs' which require membership. That in turn requires an agreement from potential members to obey the rules of that Board. Anyone not prepared to obey the rules opens themselves up to having member privileges withdrawn. How the rules are interpreted is up to the owners and moderators. Anyone may object to this, but it is fact. And as has been said before, anyone who is pissed off about a Board's lack of posting freedom or how it is moderated has the absolute freedom to open up his own site. It seems really inexpensive to do so.

[Guest]

I dont believe one needs to be a tax payer to not have ones basic human rights abused. I dont think you quite understand anyway, but I mean things like racism, hate speech, discrimination against sexual orientation sex and health status etc etc and not as in the right to housing, health care blah blah, in context to forums and boards of course.

 

In a sense forums are definitely public places. If a board is discriminatory in any way I disagree with the way they are going about it.

 

It kind of depends how you define discrimination. Obviously this is a gay forum, so I personally wouldn't welcome people coming in and changing the character of the board, maybe by starting long picture threads full of young ladies in bikinis. We would all respect the rights of people to do that on their own forums, or even to post the odd picture that's in context of some wider discussion.

Rather in the same way that the more tolerant religions would accept the presence of other religions, but I doubt that tolerance would go as far as holding Islamic prayers in the vatican any time soon.

 

Ultimately, I don't recall anyone having their "rights" being abused or being discriminated against on any of the major forums. What I do see is a minority getting moderated for breaking board rules, or persistently trying to pick pointless arguments & attempting to destroy the harmonious nature of the forum. Moderating that kind of input is in the best interests of the board.

[kokopelli]

Of course, if I ever apply to be burned at the stake instead, I have no doubt you'll be right there volunteering to light the match.

[KhorTose]

Ultimately, I don't recall anyone having their "rights" being abused or being discriminated against on any of the major forums. What I do see is a minority getting moderated for breaking board rules, or persistently trying to pick pointless arguments & attempting to destroy the harmonious nature of the forum. Moderating that kind of input is in the best interests of the board.

 

 

 

Don't quite agree with the latter. For example, SGT was set up to be anything but harmonious, and I see constant arguments of Thai Visa. Both boards are highly successful,Therefore, I can easily conclude that too harmonious a board will = boring, which also means that the best interest of the board may not be to curb any and all dissent.

This whole decussion really really should be a seperate topic. Thanks for bringing it up Cedric.

[KhorTose]

 

Careful Koko, I feel my harmony being shaken.

[Guest fountainhall]

This whole decussion really really should be a seperate topic. Thanks for bringing it up Cedric.

 

I agree. Whilst a phantom poster seems to have originated this thread, thanks to Cedric a lot of good points have arisen, and I expect more could be raised.

[Guest Cedric]

Ya some of that I agree with Khor, the worst kind of moderation is nationalistic right wing crap. I also dont think posters/people should have the freedom of action or speech that can cause or lead to endangering another human being or cause them pain hurt or fear. Even if it is their own little wank off party such a group of people or forum as in this discussion should be hacked and destroyed.

 

We have just been following the Breivik trial in the news and yes he was a member of a few forums, I dont believe he should have been able to air his opinions anywhere but in prison.

 

It didn't stop him killing innocent people the fact that he could air his opinions, nor did it enable anyone to prevent them, it only seemed to encourage in that his maifesto was apprently made up of amongst other scources entries posted to the GDL forum and EDL.

 

Perhapse the irony of it all is I think there are in fact a fair number of extremely uptight pretty conservative gays out there.

 

There is of course also the age thing. I think some very insane moderating can obviously be attributed to generation differences.

 

I was speaking to someone In the real biusness world............have to break off thunder will deleat

[Guest Cedric]

SGT was set up to be anything but harmonious, and I see constant arguments of Thai Visa. Both boards are highly successful,Therefore, I can easily conclude that too harmonious a board will = boring, which also means that the best interest of the board may not be to curb any and all dissent.

 

I agree.

 

_{ps SGT has hit a rocky patch right now, they had three post the last few days, that cant be considered that successful anymore}

[Guest Cedric]

 

Ultimately, I don't recall anyone having their "rights" being abused or being discriminated against on any of the major forums.

 

And that to me as I have been saying is the most important reaon for moderators far as Im concerned. Outside of gay forums this kind of discrimination is rife. Maybe gay boards have it too easy so moderators can only be active moderators if they are petty.

 

Sure anyone wants to post girlie pictures to a gay web site why not! They can have their own gallery full of them. Its unlikely though now isn't? Unless it was sabotage of course.

[Guest thaiworthy]

Sure anyone wants to post girlie pictures to a gay web site why not! They can have their own gallery full of them. Its unlikely though now isn't? Unless it was sabotage of course.

 

No, not sabotage in the conventional sense. And however unlikely it may seem, you may not have viewed this thread:

 

http://www.gaythaila...t-club-pattaya/

 

Or this one:

 

http://www.gaythaila...ue-competition/

 

And in case anyone is wondering is this post of off-topic, then allow me to clarify that these links are probably the best examples I know of-- when a forum resembles a suck ass site. Talk about shaken harmony! But just an opinion, of course!

[Guest]

If there's a very hands off moderating style valid factual & interesting threads are often swiftly taken off topic. For example a thread may be started asking "where are the gay bars in Hat Yai?"

Such information is not widely available, so when someone swiftly takes the thread off topic with abuse, a sequence of negative posts or even witty banter, that's very unhelpful for the readers.

[TotallyOz]

No, not sabotage in the conventional sense. And however unlikely it may seem, you may not have viewed this thread:

 

http://www.gaythaila...t-club-pattaya/

 

Or this one:

 

http://www.gaythaila...ue-competition/

 

And in case anyone is wondering is this post of off-topic, then allow me to clarify that these links are probably the best examples I know of-- when a forum resembles a suck ass site. Talk about shaken harmony! But just an opinion, of course!

 

It looks like I will never be in the majority on this one but ladyboys ARE a part of gay Thailand. I just don't understand why anyone would think they are not. It blows my mind and I don't like my mind being blown. It is the extreme of a gay fem boy. They ARE gay. I was in West Hollywood last night in a well known gay bar and I met several Trannys. They ARE also part of the gay scene where ever I visit.

 

IMHO, to say that is sabotage is the same as saying a thread with muscle guys is sabotage.

[Guest fountainhall]

It looks like I will never be in the majority on this one but ladyboys ARE a part of gay Thailand . . . IMHO, to say that is sabotage is the same as saying a thread with muscle guys is sabotage.


 

What is sabotage of a site, I wonder? Flamers who flood the Board with one-liners? Posters who thrive on trashing other posters and their contributions? Posters who hog a topic and extend it ad infinitum? In my view - and I did say this before - the Obsessions thread which thaiworthy raised is a perfect example of the third sort of sabotage.

 

Let me quickly add: I totally agree with Michael. Ladyboys are an integral part of Gay Thailand - and gay almost anywhere. They certainly deserve an 'airing' on a gay message Board, if you like.

 

But let's recall that particular thread included more than 420 photos (I counted!) of the same small group of ladyboys who happen to work in just one bar, so we got photo after photo after photo of the same ladies. I can't recall the number of ladies who did work there, but let's assume it was around 20. That means over 20 posed photos of each individual ladyboy. As I said at the time, it was gross overkill. If anyone posts 420 photos - or anything even close to that - of muscle boys, that would certainly mark my exit!

 

On how many other threads, gentlemen, have we ever had even 100 photos? None, to my knowledge. Now, I happen to be a prolific poster of photos, especially to illustrate travel experiences, so perhaps I should be careful about my comments. But the most photos I ever posted was on the Taipei Gay Pride Parade thread last year – around 85 or so. That, though, was an evolving event and the photos were built around an extensive travel blog series of lengthy daily posts, not merely the ogling at the same group of posed ladyboys!

 

Now if the Obsessions poster had actually written something about the bar in question, or about his experiences in the bar and with the ladyboys, or about the joys of ladyboys in general, that might have been slightly different – stress on “slightly”. But from the very first posts (none with text as such), it was nothing more than a pure advertisement for a commercial establishment, a continuous flow of ladyboy pics advertising a bar. And let’s be perfectly frank: as he himself posted, that was his intention! And boy, did he achieve it!

 

That volume of photographs – again I have to say, of the same ladyboys over and over again – belonged to a ladyboy site, pure and simple. It also belonged to the website of the bar in question which, not surprisingly, had only a tiny fraction of that number of the 420+ photos posted here. It did not belong on a Message Board. A few with some descriptions would have sufficed.

 

Last point. Did any of the handful of posters who encouraged these posts (and I will not name names but they are there in the thread for all to see) actually visit Obsessions during or after the thread?

[TotallyOz]

Last point. Did any of the handful of posters who encouraged these posts (and I will not name names but they are there in the thread for all to see) actually visit Obsessions during or after the thread?

 

I did at least 3 or 4 times!

 

But, in all honesty, I had also been there before.

[Guest]

A poll on the Thai Visa forum showed more straight males were attracted to ladyboys than gay ones. This doesn't surprise me, as ladyboys often look indistinguishable from females, so should have some attractions for the same group of followers.

 

I like boys & femme boys, but have walked past Obsessions many times without stepping inside (so far). Even if ladyboys are considered part of the gay scene, it should not be assumed that most gays are attracted to them.