How Tolerant is Thailand to Gay People?

[Guest fountainhall]

I missed an article in the Bangkok Post published on 1^st March titled "The Truth about Tolerance". It examines Thailand’s perceived tolerance towards “people with different sexual orientations”, a country where it might seem that “gays, transgenders and lesbians have assimilated well into Thai society.”

 

Not so, says the writer who, whilst not being gay herself, has a member of her family who is, as well as several gay friends. This has led her to campaign against the homophobia she has realised exists in the country.

 

What I have found is not so much outward hostility towards or fear of gay people, but rather social ideologies which stigmatise homosexuality.

 

Homophobia is unfortunately far from new in this predominantly Buddhist nation. Despite the Buddha's core teachings of compassion, most people opt to treat such individuals with disdain, often making homosexuals and transgenders objects of ridicule in movies, television commercials and daily conversation. They are often labelled as being promiscuous, self-indulgent and deserving of little respect. The holier-than-thou approach of people who feel they are justified in poking fun at gays and lesbians because of the belief that they have supposedly committed sins, particularly adultery I was told, in their past lives is in my opinion the perfect excuse to have a laugh at the expense of someone who has little means of retaliating.

 

It is my understanding that Thailand's apparently discreet "tolerance" for gays and transsexuals is in fact the result of our non-confrontational culture. While disapproval of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people is not obvious in public, the internet is another means by which homophobic comments are made in private.

 

Truth be told, Thai-style "tolerance" is only applicable when you stay put in your place and march to the drum of the cultural pecking order. It is a well-known fact that Gay Pride parades in provinces such as Chiang Mai are often not encouraged on the pretext that it will damage their reputable cultural heritage. Marginalising people due to their sexual orientation is taking the country back to the Stone Age. It is pivotal to address LGBT rights, which is an integral part of human rights. Otherwise cultural jingoism will only threaten our country's lack of integrity and incite further homophobia on home turf that will do more damage than good.

 

We have to keep in mind that the LGBT segments of our society are an integral part of our community, with talents, skills and achievements like the rest of us. Marginalising them will only serve as a deterrent in making our neighbourhood more wholesome. A step towards genuine tolerance is putting our bias attitudes towards their sexual and lifestyle preferences aside, and recognising them for the people they are.

 

 

http://www.bangkokpo...about-tolerance

 

In this and the rest of the article, I don’t find any new insights or any new solutions. But I think it in part explains why there is a large sub-culture for the more middle- and upper-class gays within Thai society where they meet and socialize in a far less public manner than in the gay establishments enjoyed more by westerners and visiting tourists. In my business life, I have met several Thais in their 30s whom I know to be gay and who know I am gay. But even after a dinner with a lot of alcohol, our sexuality is never discussed. One Thai lady I know well frequently tells me it is such a shame that X or Y of her colleagues cannot face up to the challenge of being openly gay because of the effect it will have on parents, jobs and positions in society.

 

Historically, I wonder how much of this is a result of the waves of Chinese immigration and the imposition of less liberal attitudes on the indigenous Thais? Maybe none. I just have no idea - but it’s an interesting thought.

[KhorTose]

Read the recent "OUT" magazine article onThailand's leading gay activist Paisarn Likhitpreechakul. Excellant article that is unfortunitely in two parts with part two next month.

[pong]

1. yes-read that in that newsppr on that day-found it so much parrotting of nothing new, that I just left it at that. The same you can expect about the fire in hotels and the falling of people from buses with open doors etc. For 99% the same about thjat Thai article in O-I-T. I still yet have to seen any Thai scientific original thought-about social matters that is.
   
2. 2.there is No absolute answer to this. of course not. In general you do not talk about s.x at all among Thai-you just do it. And yes-I do moreorless agree with you that among the bisnisleading SinoThai it is much more of a tabootopic. Nothing really gets ''imposed'' upon their slaves and minors, but as befits the normal phee/nong relations, they are quick to capture anything that the boss might see as unworthy. Me for myself I remain always vigilant and aware against those SinoThai-always out on preying at you (my own prejudice, yes I know). PLus that my travels in mainland China also made me much more distrustful against that bunch of cheaters. They have to hide so much-then its easy to add this also.
   
3. Strangely enough a few yrs in west-style countries like HongKong and Singapore makes them much more tolerant and much less cheating.
   

[TotallyOz]

Do you not think as Thailand becomes more "western" that the people will become more bigoted and conservative? It seems logical to me.

 

I do hope this doesn't happen.

 

I have always felt accepted by the Thai people I meet but I don't know what they say behind my back.

[Guest]

Overall, Thailand seems reasonably tolerant of gay lifestyle.

I guess it depends on what you compare it with too. For example in the UK, some of the gay bars in regional towns feel the need to brick up all their downstairs windows. I doubt that would happen in Thailand, but could be making the wrong call on this.

As for the Chinese imposing "values", well isn't the anti-gay legislation in Singapore a hangover from Victorian Britain?

 

 

Do you not think as Thailand becomes more "western" that the people will become more bigoted and conservative? It seems logical to me.

Actually, quite a lot of Europe has become a lot less bigoted and conservative. The majority of people wouldn't dream of going to church and are tolerant of other lifestyles.

I hear things are different in some parts of the US, but thankfully that is not the norm for the west.

[Guest fountainhall]


As for the Chinese imposing "values", well isn't the anti-gay legislation in Singapore a hangover from Victorian Britain?

 

It is indeed - as was the legislation in Hong Kong until its repeal in 1990. Victorian Britain has a lot to answer for when it comes to anti-gay legislation in its former colonies.

 

But Thailand was never colonized, and I doubt that British law would have influenced Thais. On the other hand, the Chinese who left China in droves as the Manchu Empire was collapsing would have been fairly conservative in their views. Whilst homosexuality was not illegal, by the 1800s life for most Chinese was a huge struggle. There would have been intense pressure within the society for young men to marry, but the economic consequences of providing a dowry meant that many had to delay marriage till they were 30 or older. Once married, though, they were expected to produce more children to bear some of the economic burden.

 

How liberal Thais were during this period of Chinese immigration, I really have no idea. Certainly there never were British-type laws against homosexuality.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

This is a fascinating topic.

 

It is certainly true that there is a high degree of tolerance in Thailand. Incidents of 'gay bashing' here are unheard of- unless perpetrated by foreigners.

 

However, there is very little acceptance of gay people here. There is no equality under the law, many professional gay Thais cannot come out at work in fear that their chances of promotion will be adversely affected and many are pressured into marriage by their families and would not dream of say, venturing into a well known gay bar. One owner of a gay watering hole told me that he dare not advertise as a gay bar as he would lose too many closeted gay customers.

 

In Europe there is acceptance under the law but in certain areas you will be punched in the mouth for holding your boyfriend's hand in the street. The question is not which is better- here or there? Society should be both tolerant and accepting.

[Guest fountainhall]

It is certainly true that there is a high degree of tolerance in Thailand . . . However, there is very little acceptance of gay people here.

 

As has been discussed in various threads, dig deeper into the culture and customs of quite a few neighbouring and other Asian countries, and you find almost the same situation as Thailand. There certainly seems on the surface to be a much greater freedom for gays in Asia than there was, say, 25 years ago, and younger guys in particular seem to have less problem coming out. But when they mature into their late 20s and 30s, the requirement to conform drags them back into at best a semi-closeted existence. In Thailand, it's not limited to Thais who have spent their lives in the country. I know two guys who had all their education from the age of about eight overseas. Whilst they are gay and each has a circle of gay friends, they know the situation here and on their return to Thailand decided just to 'fit in'.

 

Michael suggested earlier that as Thailand becomes more westernised, the more will Thais become bigoted and conservative. I doubt if Thailand will take that route, given how conservative it is at present. That has not happened in my experience in some countries, notably Hong Kong and Singapore. Traditional cultural values remain strong, but these societies have to a certain extent thrown off their homophobia. I suspect that the requirement over several decades to have a large number of expats to keep the economies booming is one of the reasons. By being more outward looking, they have become more accepting. But I don't hold out much hope that this will be the case in Thailand and other countries any time soon.

 

Malaysia is a different kettle of fish. Since my first visit in 1980, I had always found it pretty open and - at least on the surface - westernised, despite the Islamic majority making it difficult for young Muslims to be openly gay (although that did not stop many from going to gay discos and well-known cruising areas). Whilst I have never encountered any problems in KL, I did begin to detect a change in attitudes about 5 or so years ago, a hardening of anti-gay sentiment. Again it seemed not to affect the younger guys, but it definitely was having an effect on older ones. I also started to feel slightly ill at ease in KL itself. This I put down to the big influx of tourists from the Middle East in recent years, with quite a few of the women wearing the traditional black burkha. Malaysian women always dress very attractively in their colourful dresses and headscarves. To me, the burkha seems out of place in such a setting.

 

And increasingly in Malaysia there seem to be more community leaders calling for a return to more conservative values. But that’s only what I pick up from newspapers. Maybe someone who has been there more recently can give more up-to-date information.

 

I have not been to Cambodia and Laos for about 7 years. Hanoi two years ago was certainly not ‘open’, although there are at least some gay venues and a thriving community in the gay chat rooms. My delightful gay guide said it was not difficult being gay in Vietnam, but he still had to be careful. When he visited Bangkok, he could not believe how "amazing" the gay scene is in comparison. Equally a young Japanese friend recently spent much of his time here wishing that Tokyo could have a street like Silom Soi 4!

 

As James said, society should be both tolerant and accepting. Unfortunately, tradition and religion tend to make that very difficult – at least in the short to medium term. Most Asian cultures are conservative in nature. Add into the mix the 62% of the world Islamic community living in Asia – around 1 billion people - and about 120 million or so Catholics, and you have a pretty solid opposition to gay rights, tolerance and acceptance.

[Guest]

Add into the mix the 62% of the world Islamic community living in Asia – around 1 billion people - and about 120 million or so Catholics, and you have a pretty solid opposition to gay rights, tolerance and acceptance.

These 2 religions adopt similar views in Europe too. The Catholic church seem to be mounting a campaign against gay marriage. I don't know what the hell gives them a right to behave like some kind of moral authority. Would be better if they put their own house in order first.

I don't know if some of the more tolerant religions found in Asia go around offering unwanted & inappropriate advice to non-followers.

[Guest thaiworthy]

I don't know what the hell gives them a right to behave like some kind of moral authority.

 

Catholics have been quoted saying, "It's OK to be homosexual, just don't be a practicing homosexual." My response to that is, "And I don't mind being Catholic, I'm just not a practicing Catholic."

[Guest JamesBarnes]

I did enjoy that witty remark Thaiworthy!

 

The gay marriage debate is hotting up in the UK right now with a Catholic bigwig saying that it would be, 'grotesquely subversive'. Quite a lot of neck here when his church has been perversely shameful.

 

I have noticed that many middle class, younger Thai gays are much bolder about their sexuality. Hard to say if it is a western influence but it is good to see.