Guest fountainhall Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Cathay Pacific has announced that its new Premium Economy seats will be phased in on selected flights from 1st April. The first services to be fitted with the new class of seating will be flights to/from Toronto, Vancouver and New York, along with one of the daily flights to/from Sydney. Some London flights start in May. San Francisco, LAX, Melbourne and Adelaide in August, Frankfurt in September, and other flights through the entire long-haul fleet by December. With TG soon to have no non-stops from the US, CX may be a possible alternative, especially if they have introductory discounts. CX is being typically coy about the seat and pitch dimensions. The present economy class has 17.5” width and 32” pitch. All its website says at present is that there will be greater pitch and a recline of 8”. My guess is that probably means double the recline of an economy seat. Oh, and you get champagne on boarding and noise-cancelling headsets! http://www.cathaypacific.com Quote
kokopelli Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Yes, they are coy same as Delta was with its Economy Comfort which was far less then comfort. Better then nothing but, so far, none has matched Thai Air Premium Economy which may or may not exist anymore. Quote
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 CX is being typically coy about the seat and pitch dimensions. The present economy class has 17.5” width and 32” pitch. All its website says at present is that there will be greater pitch and a recline of 8”. To me, that recline does not seem like a significant advantage over economy. From my limited experiences of premium economy on other airlines, the guaranteed leg room is the only thing I would pay a significant increase in fares for. The increased recline in premium economy is not sufficient to allow more sleep, I need a good business class seat for that. The width is a nice to have, but not a significant benefit. As the leg room is the only thing that might motivate me to pay substantially more, the usually "free" emergency exit row seats seem like a better deal. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 the usually "free" emergency exit row seats seem like a better deal. CX charges US$100 per long-haul sector for these. Reading the blurb again, I'm almost certain the Premium Economy seating must be 8 across instead of 10, and the pitch at least 4" more than Economy. But checking prices on the website, CX has really gone to the top of the scale. The cheapest round-trip LAX/BKK/LAX fares (before taxes etc.) for August are - economy: $1,185 premium economy: $4,950 business: $6,247 That Premium Economy price is ridiculously high - virtually the same as TG's present non-stop business class price! I assume it will be a lot cheaper through agents. I can't make a comparison with other airlines as neither United, ANA nor Delta offer a Premium Economy through their websites for that route! Quote
kokopelli Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Delta is about $1400 USD/ RT plus an extra $200 for Premium Economy each way. Rough estimates. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I assume that Delta price is so low because it is basically an economy seat with the same pitch and 10-across seating as in economy/coach. There seems to be no rationale in the pricing of Premium Economy - unless it is purely what the market will bear. I checked British Airways Bangkok to Sydney just now for flights in June and in October. Admittedly, BA is one of the more expensive carriers. Its Premium Economy, with 8 - across seating, 38" pitch and 18.5" width, is a whopping Bt. 86,520 before taxes. Yet business class is Bt. 89,000! Since business class has fully flat-bed seats, there seems no rhyme nor reason for the prices being almost identical! Yet, if you fly on the same carrier to and from London, the relevant prices have a far bigger difference - Bt. 75,770 and Bt, 118,550! This is the Skytrax listing for the 10 best Premium Economy seats. Most have 38" pitch. Qantas Air New Zealand EVA ANA Virgin Atlantic V Australia British Airways SAS Air France Japan Airlines http://www.airlinequality.com/Experience/bestWclass_seats.htm Quote
Guest badcdn Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 All its website says at present is that there will be greater pitch and a recline of 8”. My guess is that probably means double the recline of an economy seat. Oh, and you get champagne on boarding and noise-cancelling headsets! http://www.cathaypacific.com Specification of Cathay Pacific Premium Economy Class: Aircraft Type Boeing 777-300ER, 747-400, Airbus A330-300, A340-300 Configuration Boeing 777-300ER: 2-4-2 Boeing 747-400: 2-4-2 A330-300: 2-3-2 A340-300: 2-3-2 Seat pitch 38” Seat width 19.3” Recline: 8” http://www.cathaypac...00007d21c39____ (for some reason the 'edit' button wasn't available, but after the second post, it was visible on both posts.) Quote
Guest badcdn Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 The formating of the previous post changed after posting, follow the link to see the actual page on CX's website. Apparently there's no option to edit posts. Overall the product sounds promising. I am seeing advance purchase fares in the $2000 range with full fare around $6000. The advance purchase ticket is on par with EVA, however Cathay's Prem Econ sounds promising and an overall better product. It will be interesting to see if EVA will step up (I doubt it) and improve their Prem Econ as CX will likely lure customers away from EVA with their new offering. CX is also daily, and aside from LAX, SFO, EVA is only flies a few days days of each week out of SEA, YVR. I heard CX is also replacing their Economy seats. It's wait and see if they'll be any better. Quote
Rogie Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Apparently there's no option to edit posts. Unless you are using an unusual browser, the edit button is located between the report and quote buttons, although it is not as prominent as the latter. Posts can be edited for up to an hour after posting. Quote
Guest Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 CX charges US$100 per long-haul sector for these. I would happily pay that for the emergency exit row, as it's a true value for money upgrade. On a 12 hour flight, maybe a mere $8 per hour for extra leg room and easy access to my seat. Paying for the emergency exit seat is almost better, as it at least guarantees the seat. Ideally that could be done at the time of booking? Paying an extra $3500 and STILL not getting enough recline for a full nights sleep seems like a bad deal to me. Watch out for the discounts. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I heard CX is also replacing their Economy seats. It's wait and see if they'll be any better. I heard that, too. Seems the old ones have drawn massive complaints. I don't know who the airline selects to test-market its seats, but this seems one of its weaknesses. I can remember one of the early business class seats having a fixed head rest that pushed the head so far forward a very large pillow was needed to cushion the neck and upper back. That didn't last long. And passenger pressure has also forced it to replace the herring-bone business class layout much earlier than planned. An expensive exercise! Quote
kokopelli Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I finally was able to navigate Cathay Pacific's website which is a little tricky. Fare in Premium Economy appear to be about $2000+ RT from New York City to Bangkok. 38" pitch and 19"+ seat width is not too bad for that price. For me it would depend on the configuration but worth a try. Quote
Guest thaiworthy Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 , , , STILL not getting enough recline for a full nights sleep seems like a bad deal to me. I guess it depends on the person. In my case, I sleep better sitting up, without the incline. Fare in Premium Economy appear to be about $2000+ RT from New York City to Bangkok. That appears to be pretty consistent pricing. EVA, for example, typically adds $300 each way for their Premium Economy seats. Although as you say, Delta is cheaper. Base fares from the US to Bangkok are usually around $1400, so your figure would be about right. EVA also ranks #3 among Premium Economy carriers, although I'm not sure how. (see FH post #6 above.) Seat pitch is the same (38") but loses one inch to 18 in width. Cathay beats EVA by one silly inch. Or you could lose both those 2 silly inches and save all that money! Quote
kokopelli Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Cathay beats EVA by one silly inch. Or you could lose both those 2 silly inches and save all that money! Every inch counts when flying long distances from my experience. Both seat width and pitch add to the comfort. Although, so far, none match the PE for Thai airlines if it even exists anymore. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Fare in Premium Economy appear to be about $2000+ RT from New York City to Bangkok. The price I quoted earlier is clearly the full-fare price. The website is now including several price categories. But I have checked a few dates between July and October. I can't find any day with seats actually available at that price as that price category is sold out. They're all several hundred dollars more. I expect you either have to get in very early or be very flexible with dates for the $2,000 fare. My gut feel is that quite a number of businesses will downgrade their executives from business to premium economy. If that's the case, since CX tends to have a lot of executive travel, they may soon be increasing the size of the premium economy cabin and tearing out more of the economy seats! And with such small cabins, I am certain the one or two seats available on a few of the flights for miles redemption will disappear fifty weeks in advance! Quote
Rogie Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 My gut feel is that quite a number of businesses will downgrade their executives from business to premium economy. The Alex cartoon strip in today's British Telegraph newpaper shows exactly the same thought has occurred to highly-paid financial executives in the City of London. The cartoon is too long to fit across the page, but in the right hand cartoon the Clive character is saying: "Would this have anything to do with the bank's new cost-cutting policy that we're only allowed to fly business class if we're accompanied by a client?" To which, Alex retorts: "The things I have to do for a tolerable existence". If you check the link after today, the one you want is dated February 17. http://www.telegraph...k/finance/alex/ Quote
kokopelli Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 . I can't find any day with seats actually available at that price as that price category is sold out. They're all several hundred dollars more. I expect you either have to get in very early or be very flexible with dates for the $2,000 fare. I had plugged in dates from Oct 15 to Dec 15 which offered premium economy for about $2100 USD however PE was only from New York to Hong Kong. The next segment was listed as Economy, from Hong Kong to Bangkok thus sort of a half-assed fare. Returning Wed 12 Dec Returning Thu 13 Dec Returning Fri 14 Dec Returning Sat 15 Dec Returning Sun 16 Dec Returning Mon 17 Dec Returning Tue 18 Dec Departing Fri 12 Oct $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,147.26 $2,147.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 Departing Sat 13 Oct $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,147.26 $2,147.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 Departing Sun 14 Oct $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,147.26 $2,147.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 Departing Mon 15 Oct $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 Departing Tue 16 Oct $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 Departing Wed 17 Oct $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 Departing Thu 18 Oct $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,097.26 $2,097.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 $2,047.26 Legend: Lowest prices available Note: Price displayed is for 1 adult only and includes charges/taxes. Total price for all passengers will be displayed on the Fare Details page. Prices shown on the calendar above are for reference only. The actual available fare will be confirmed on the next page. Quote
Guest thaiworthy Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Koko, I want you to be my travel agent. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 PE was only from New York to Hong Kong. The next segment was listed as Economy, from Hong Kong to Bangkok thus sort of a half-assed fare. The reason is the PE will only be available on long-haul sectors. Re prices, the CX site has just returned after 2 days for upgrading. I wonder if that is why the wider range of PE fares is now available. Koko has done a great job in finding that cheap fares are definitely available in the October – December period. I checked June – August and see that the cheapest fares are mostly no longer available. Depart June or July and you will almost certainly have to pay minimum US$2,797.26 whether you return in June, August, October, November or December. Depart August and only some dates are available at $2,047.26 or $2,147.26. From September onwards though, most fares are, as koko discovered, at these two cheapest rates. So the moral is: book early! But I just noticed an anomaly on the CX Thailand site. I tried checking fares in reverse for BKK/JFK/BKK between June and December. For some reason, the "flexible with travel dates" option is not available. You can only book individual days. So I checked a few combinations. Every single flight that pops up has N/A against it! So I tried checking via the CX USA and HKG sites. Exactly the same! It makes me think there are still glitches on the upgraded website. It makes no sense that when you start your trip ex-JFK, then BKK/JFK flights are available; but when you start ex-BKK, the same flights are not available! Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Seems like TG will only have the usual three classes in its new A380s - no premium economy, at least according to thaitravelnews.net. Mind you, this page has a piece of b/s that makes the rest of it suspect. One of the routes that many believe would become the first for the world’s largest passenger aircraft would be the highly-competitive Bangkok-to-Hong Kong route. http://www.thaitrave...ong-kong-route/ Although the link is near the top of the google list, it was penned on December 21 last year. Is the writer so out of the loop that he does not know that Emirates had been flying the A380 on the route for well over a year before the article appeared? So much for Thai travel-related websites! Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Cathay has released photos of its new Premium Economy product (click on the photos for a larger version). The front row clearly seems to be the best as it appears to have no seat in front, but that may depend where the cabin is located and on how each aircraft model is configured. http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_TH/aboutus/pressroomdetails?refID=7df5afa2aacb5310VgnVCM62000007d21c39____ Quote
kokopelli Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Somehow I feel that all that glitters is not gold! Once downside is that the PE is only to Hong Kong and then Economy on final leg to Bangkok. Just from looking at Seat Guru it appears that EVA offers better seating in PE. Anyone tried EVA? Quote
Bob Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Anyone tried EVA? For many years, that's all I've flown - premium economy on Eva (it's called "evergreen duluxe on 747's and "elite" on 777's). When I looked at the photos of the seating for Cathay Pacific as noted by Fountainhill above, the seating somewhat looked like EVA's. Two seats by the window (but, in the middle of the plane, it's either 4 or 6 seats together). I always sit at the two-seat area by the window and, as far as I'm concerned, it's almost the same as business class (or, perhaps, the poor man's business class.....although it ain't so inexpensive anymore!). Once in a great while...it's been a few years for me....it's difficult for some flights from the states to get the premium economy leg from Taipei to Bangkok and they'll try to place you in economy class for that 3.5 hour leg. But I think I've only had to do that once and that was because I wanted that particular flight time and date. So, at least to me, the PE seating looks about the same. In EVA, the PE seating is fine, adequate legroom, etc., and I note (not that it's all important) that the seat trays come out of the arm rest and stretch across the space (Cathay Pacific seems to make some big deal out of this like it's a new thing and it isn't as it's been on EVA for years). Quote
kokopelli Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Once in a great while...it's been a few years for me....it's difficult for some flights from the states to get the premium economy leg from Taipei to Bangkok and they'll try to place you in economy class for that 3.5 hour leg. How sneaky of them!!! I did some checking and see that some of the flights from BKK to Hong Kong are on an Airbus and not Premium Economy. It seems that flights on Boeing 777 have a 40" pitch for PE and can be booked if careful of dates. In the good old days EVA used to fly out of Newark/USA which, for me, would be far more convenient then JFK/USA Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Cathay has developed two types of cabin interiors - long-haul and short-haul. Short-haul will not have premium economy. Even its present business class bears no comparison to long-haul - smaller seats with limited recline, no flat-beds, pretty poor meal service. Very occasionally they will deploy a long-haul aircraft on short-haul routes in which case you may be lucky transiting from an incoming long-haul. But most of the Hong Kong/Bangkok flights continue on to places like Delhi, Dubai, Colombo and Bombay. So I reckon it's unlikely the airline will put a long haul aircraft on such lengthy round-trips. Quote
