Lies, Damned Lies and . . .

[Guest fountainhall]

I normally do not copy threads from any other Board I happen to visit, but I did notice a thread on one Board with a subject that has sometime cropped up here, and would like to reopen the discussion.

 

It has to do with lies that Thai guys seem frequently come out with. Many of us have some time or another been regaled with stories about bar boys not delivering what was expected and coming up with some ‘excuse’, guys you arrange to meet on gayromeo and elsewhere turning up well over an hour late “because . . . “, mothers being sick and requiring money for an operation, key money required for a new apartment . . . and on it goes.

 

Naturally, no nationality has a monopoly on lying, and quite a few farang here may be as prone to the habit as Thais. There are also some cultural issues at play. Being on time seems to be something few Thais in my experience consider has any importance. Avoiding a confrontation by almost any means is more important than sitting down and having a rational discussion. And I have even had a business associate lie directly to me, even though he must have been aware that I would eventually find out that this was indeed a lie. But then of course he would have realised that having discovered the lie, I could not bring it up without making a veiled accusation against him. And that is a no-no! Sometimes the Thais really do seem to have the cards stacked in their favour!

 

More recently, I have come across a couple of cases, not so much of lying but of avoiding the truth until there was no other choice but to reveal it.

 

Both involve a young guy who had formed a relationship with an older farang. Now, this was no barboy. He was going to a good University where he gained near-top marks. He spoke excellent English and had a few months earlier ended a 3-year relationship with another farang. He met my friend (whom I’ll call David) on gayromeo and they seemed to be developing a mutually loving relationship. At no stage had any money been requested – for anything!

 

Then, one morning the guy disappears off to Hua Hin. When pressed, he said it was “for school” and he’d be away for a month. Ten days later he returned, finally admitting to David that he had been away with another farang he’d met.

 

This thought had earlier crossed David’s mind. Although they had been used to either meeting up or speaking every day by phone or texting, there had been no communication during those 10 days, until the morning of his return when he more or less expected to meet David that evening. David had decided that since their relationship was still in its early stages, he might have been away on a trip arranged earlier with his previous bf, or even with someone he had met before they had. And he decided he would not even discuss the issue. Eventually the truth came out: he had been away with another farang. Difficult though it was, David let it pass.

 

Things then returned to exactly as they had been. Last month, he had to go to spend some time with family in Khon Kaen and then to his sister’s on Samui. For a time, texts routinely arrived including some with photos. Then, without any warning, for the better part of a week his phone started rejecting texts and the only phone message David could leave was his number. Since like all Thai guys with smart phones he was always texting almost the entire day, he was clearly out of the country. And that could only mean he was with another man.

 

When he returned in time for the start of the University term, David immediately brought up the issue of where had he been – and with whom. Without batting the proverbial eyelid, David was told he had met someone on Samui who offered him a trip to Malaysia, and he’d accepted, the implication being, “and what’s wrong with that?”

 

David ended the relationship almost immediately, but his friend kept sending texts asking “why?” David tells me he thinks his friend genuinely does not understand why the relationship is off. He and I have talked at length about it, with my saying he should have made it 100% clear either after the Hua Hun episode or earlier that such wanderlust would not be acceptable in future. David cannot understand how someone can say he “loves me so much” one day, and then disappear with someone else the next!

 

I am not casting judgement here, because I think both made mistakes and both should have been clearer of what they expected up front. Going back to the subject of the thread, though: is avoidance of the truth a lie? And given the cultural differences, in this case was not my friend more “guilty” than his young Thai friend who, it seems, never actually “lied”?

[Rogie]

That's a very thought-provoking post Fountainhall. That kind of situation your friend David found himself in is certainly more likely to happen in Thailand than the farang's home country. The cultural differences and age difference come to mind straightaway as reasons that may be so. One can perhaps understand that in a relationship that seems to be working and going smoothly nobody wants to rock the boat. The farang feels blessed that he has a fine young man as his good friend and the Thai guy is happy . . . happy if he is from a poor rural area with few prospects and little money, and happy if he is a university student to have somebody of equal intellectual calibre who has probably travelled the world, been there, done that - and oozes sophistication. Why jeopardise that happiness and togetherness by voicing your concerns? Contrast that with a rocky relationship, lots of arguments (as in the "best part of breaking up is making up" tradition) and awkward differences of opinion clearly out in the open rather than hidden away . . . that kind of relationship might well survive longer than you'd imagine.

[Bob]

I really don't know enough to comment about what happened to your friend......and probably shouldn't even if I thought I knew enough......but I'm wondering if you can advise just a little as to how "solid" their relationship was before the so-called extra activities occurred.

 

How long had he known the Thai guy and what was the nature of their contacts? Was this a falang who occasionally came to Thailand for short trips and/or was this only an internet "relationship?" I am suspecting (unfairly without the facts, for sure) that this wasn't a solid or even much of a relationship in the first place but, before jumping to that conclusion, I'll await your filling in some of the details (if you will, of course).

[TotallyOz]

Money. Security. Adventure. Freedom.

 

Regardless of what any Thai boys says, he needs all the above from a falang. Even if he has him own job, my 2 boys do, they need more money to live a better life. Most of us are very blessed and have money to spend on trips or booze or boys. But, if you really look at someone as your boyfriend and you are not going to help him financially if you are worlds apart financially, you are being a pig and pigs usually get roasted. Sorry, but to hold out based on principal of being able to say you boy doesn't take your money, is crazy. I agree that work is important and both my guys work. But, I also know that the money I give them every week makes their life much better and in the end lets them have options. One of those options is to find another Falang. But, I want them to have that option and have always said if they find someone who is better to them, go and enjoy. I really do mean that. To date, it hasn't happened and it is not the amount of money I give them, it is being consistent with everything I do with them including helping them with their life.

 

Everyone needs to be secure in many ways and when you make them secure, you will be with them for a longer time.

 

Guys need adventure. I have seen too many relationships that fall by the wayside because they only went to bars or out to eat at night. Many falangs think that this is more than they will ever be able to do on their own so they are giving them an "adventure." WRONG. That is your adventure. Find their passion and what they like and then get up and go. That may mean lots of fishing trips (for me it does) or lots of trips to the up country (for me it does). But, don't assume that showing them your idea of a good time is their idea of a good time.

 

Freedom. Don't smother them. Let them have friends. Let them have boyfriends and girlfriends. We are old. They are not. We are worlds apart in customs and ideas. We may think that monogamy is good but they have a libido and need to explore. The best way to keep them is to let them have the freedom you wanted when you were that age. My BF has a girlfriend and has for most of the 8 years we have been together. Boy 2 has the same. I am open about it and I don't judge them with it. I simply ask about their lovers and tell them to take good care of them. But, when I come to visit, I expect them to be with me. In years gone by, that mean 2 years in Thailand at one point and they stuck with me the whole time. They were secure in that I was not going to give up on their life and future and they try to make mine as happy as possible.

 

Not knowing the full details of your friends life, I just listed a few things I find important to be with a Thai guy for a long time. I am sure many will read this and tell me I am frigging nuts. That is OK. It works for me.

[Rogie]

Going back to the subject of the thread, though: is avoidance of the truth a lie? And given the cultural differences, in this case was not my friend more “guilty” than his young Thai friend who, it seems, never actually “lied”?

 

We seem to have ended up talking more about relationships than the subject of this topic, why people lie to one another. and more relevantly, to their friends and lovers. Michael has told us how his successful relationships with Thai boys works and I congratulate him in that regard, as I do his analysis of what might have contributed to David's failed relationship with the university boy.

 

People must have been telling lies since time immemorial, picture the time when mankind were hunter-gatherers - a rival tribe accost us and asks where the best game can be found - unless you happened to have pigged out recently you're going to lie and tell them "they went that-away". I suspect lying might be part of our DNA, well whether it is or not and whether there's a 'lying gene' is getting off-topic. But why should people lie to their family, friends or even lovers? I would argue that lying can occur under any situation, whether as in David's case he might have contributed to the reasons for it, or equally in Michael's case where, to quote him, they have 'Money. Security. Adventure. Freedom.' Michael, please do not think I am saying your boys lie, only you can know whether they've ever lied to you, what I am saying is everyone has the potential to do so, no matter how cosseted or protected their lives. I am not an expert in semantics so do not know where a fib becomes a white lie becomes a little lie becomes a whopping great big lie. Lies can originate unprompted such as telling your boyfriend you're having a great time, when in fact you're not, because you know that's what he wants to hear, and there are the lies that result from a form of questioning so answering "yes" to the question "are you happy?" when you're in fact bored stiff. A good tactic would be for the person asking the question (perhaps suspecting all is not well with his friend) to phrase it in such a way that the truth emerges, either straight out or maybe it has to be teased out, but the truth outs in the end. When FH says:

 

Avoiding a confrontation by almost any means is more important than sitting down and having a rational discussion. And I have even had a business associate lie directly to me, even though he must have been aware that I would eventually find out that this was indeed a lie. But then of course he would have realised that having discovered the lie, I could not bring it up without making a veiled accusation against him. And that is a no-no!

 

If some way could be found to secure a face-saving compromise more or less straightaway (rather then let the predicament fester) that might work, but just how to frame your questions so as to make it seem less a lie rather a more acceptable 'avoidance of the truth' would require enormous patience and skill, not an easy task when dealing with cultural differences.

 

As to FH's question: "And given the cultural differences, in this case was not my friend more “guilty” than his young Thai friend who, it seems, never actually “lied”?

 

The young friend was indeed innocent of the crime of lying. He never had to lie because 1) in the first instance his indiscretion was ignored so he 'got away with it', and 2) in the second instance he was blatantly found out and could do no other than come clean. No, he wasn't guilty of lying, he was guilty of 1001 other things, depending on how censorious we might wish to be about it. That makes him 1000 times more guilty that poor David whose only guilt was his poor relationship skills, but when faced with those kind of Thai-tactics anything less than a very experienced falung is sailing in uncharted waters.

[Bob]

We seem to have ended up talking more about relationships than the subject of this topic, why people lie to one another. and more relevantly, to their friends and lovers.

 

I'm not sure if anybody can adequately answer why people lie to each other on occasion. But I also see an issue here as to the sometimes unexplained expectations of the falang who in reality don't know much about their Thai counterparts in the first place.

 

If someone had a long-term and/or solid relationship with somebody, I can understand asking the question of why do some partners lie but I'm having more difficulty understanding how a falang, involved with somebody 20-40 years younger than him and only knowing the kid from either a few short trips and/or via the internet can justifiably have an expectation that the kid isn't seeing other people and/or is obligated to inform as to his activities.

[Guest fountainhall]

Firstly, thanks to everyone for some very perceptive posts.

 

Secondly, since I raised a specific example, I should perhaps have provided a little more information about the participants. My reason for not doing so was more to protect my friend who, to the best of my knowledge, rarely reads this or other Boards, but one never knows! I guess I’d be embarrassed if someone revealed too much detail of my intimate relationships without my being aware of it. However, I’ll bring this up gently when we next get together for dinner.

 


How long had he known the Thai guy and what was the nature of their contacts?


 


I'm having more difficulty understanding how a falang, involved with somebody 20-40 years younger than him and only knowing the kid from either a few short trips and/or via the internet can justifiably have an expectation that the kid isn't seeing other people and/or is obligated to inform as to his activities.


 

I believe they met on a site like gayromeo. David has lived in Thailand since 1996. He previously had a multi-year relationship with a Thai. So he was certainly no novice to Thai/farang relationships. His new friend had also had a long-term relationship, but with a farang who lived overseas and visited Thailand about four times a year for several weeks or so each time.

 

The age difference was certainly closer to 40 years than 20, in this case a wider gap than both their previous relationships. I told David from the outset that this was not going to be easy, but when I was together with them, they did seem very devoted. I once went with them to see an iMax movie. Throughout, David’s friend snuggled up to him and held him virtually through the whole movie!

 

And whilst Michael brought up the important issue of money, I was again somewhat misleading by suggesting that money had never been requested, which was 99% true. I am told it was provided, however, in the form of school fees (not inexpensive), gifts etc., help with the cost of his room near the University, and other little ways. But the Thai had never specifically asked for anything – other than one little and very inexpensive gift.

 

Michael also raises the “freedom” issue. From what I know – and I grant I only know what I have been told and what I could see – that also was not an issue in this case. I have met his “boys” and see how loyal they are to him. In any event, Michael is here for large chunks of time and then away for similar periods. His boys know when they are free and when they are to be with him. That is one of the ‘rules’. That, I think, is not the same as a young Thai going off with another man for two periods when David was at home in Thailand.

 

And to round off the discussion about David, he tells me he was always asking his friend what “he” would like to do. The answer always seemed to be “up to you”.

 

However, I don’t want the discussion to get bogged down in this one example. The point of starting the thread was to have a more general discussion on how Thais and farang – those living here and those who only visit occasionally – look at relationships and the problems that confront them. There are clearly no hard and fast rules. But it does seem to me that, no matter how wide the age difference, one point that has come out of the discussion is that some guidelines have to be laid down near the start – guidelines about money, time together, time apart, freedom, etc. And I suppose that means a sort of unwritten contract.

[Guest buckeroo2]

As a small aside, I have noticed that many more Thais in gayromeo express a strong dislike of lying. Many profiles include a line about wanting lying farangs to stay away and do not send them a message. I would venture that maybe 10% of all posts by Thais want lying farangs to go away. Of course, we farangs are so used to the stories we are told by Thai boys. But it appears there is a revolving door when it comes to lying in Thailand.

[Guest thaiworthy]

People lie because they want something and they think telling the truth won't get it for them. It is the most expedient form of self-expression. In its most infamous form, t's a means to an end that often makes telling the truth too difficult to handle. It takes two to tango, and perhaps those that accuse others of lying can be pretty good liars themselves.

 

Deception in relationships can be avoided with a good foundation in honesty. While Michael's lifestyle would not be my cup of tea, he is quite correct in how he handles his affairs.

 

I think FH said it best:

 

The point of starting the thread was to have a more general discussion on how Thais and farang – those living here and those who only visit occasionally – look at relationships and the problems that confront them. There are clearly no hard and fast rules. But it does seem to me that, no matter how wide the age difference, one point that has come out of the discussion is that some guidelines have to be laid down near the start – guidelines about money, time together, time apart, freedom, etc. And I suppose that means a sort of unwritten contract.

 

I can sum all that up in one word, however. Communication. Whatever the terms are, they need to be addressed with no misunderstandings. This includes the omission of truth which can be an involuntary lie if it's integral in the role of a healthy relationship. (Admitting a HIV-positive status, for example.)

 

While some omissions of truth are not obvious, there are others that are. BTW, Fountainhall, I just hate your new hairdoo!

[Rogie]

I can sum all that up in one word, however. Communication. Whatever the terms are, they need to be addressed with no misunderstandings. This includes the omission of truth which can be an involuntary lie if it's integral in the role of a healthy relationship. (Admitting a HIV-positive status, for example.)

 

Fountainhall is surely on the right track by his advocating a 'sort of unwritten contract'. That'll need honest and open 'communication' so as to thrash out an agreement equally satisfactory to both parties. Having agreed on what the guidelines are that's just a start though, isn't it? In order for an understanding between the parties to flourish and prosper continuous participation is needed, adding a bit there, tweaking the corners to that part, and so on. I guess what I am referring to is flexibility. Good clear guidelines where the limits are clearly known but that allow a certain amount of sensible flexibility. Top that off with keeping the communication channels open and hopefully honesty and openness will win over any urge to lie or withhold the truth.

[Guest fountainhall]

I have noticed that many more Thais in gayromeo express a strong dislike of lying

 

Which makes me think that a lie to a Thai may be quite different to how a farang regards a lie.

 

BTW, Fountainhall, I just hate your new hairdoo!

 

Now you have really spoiled my day! And to think I took so much trouble over it

[Guest]

People sometimes lie because it's almost rude to tell the truth.

 

In Japan for example, it is seen as just rude to say "no", so they will say yes, or something similar in a way in a manner that makes it obvious you are supposed to interpret the answer as a no.

 

Then hearing all the "you handsome" comments is much nicer than hearing the truth -

"I'm doing this just for the money, you are revolting, now lets get this done and then please give me 1000 baht".

 

As for loyalty, why should it be assumed the default gay relationship is monogamous, when there are so many people sleeping around in saunas & so on?

[pong]

Which makes me think that a lie to a Thai may be quite different to how a farang regards a lie.

Yes-that is certainly right. But this needs too much time and too much trouble in a language that is not my first to explain. Mostly agree what Bob wrote above. In fact the story as FH wrote down at the start did not really look very strange or lying to me-yet another case of TITs=This is Thailand (or TIC=China, or TIV=Vietnam, etc. would be even more TIM=Myanmar-better to make a giant lie as to ever say no there). More the wrong but understandable expectations of the much older farang. And sitting down and talking it all out? Duuuhhh-bwaaahhh-thats about the last thing that would happen here or have any success. There are no relations based as ''equal'' here- its always the phee and the nong=older and younger.

Also, 1 more time: do not expect that Thai have ''original' thought-=they parrot one another. Ditto about the ''no liars'' on GR-that basically means people who do not even turn up-2-3 hrs later means nothing-he still is there. You can only say you have lived enough time in Th if you know those stories and what the ''real (in farang thinking) '' meaning of it is.

BTW dear khun FH: how long do you live here in BKK? Do you still make discoveries in that field?

[Bob]

People sometimes lie because it's almost rude to tell the truth.

 

In Japan for example, it is seen as just rude to say "no", so they will say yes, or something similar in a way in a manner that makes it obvious you are supposed to interpret the answer as a no.

 

 

Although not always related to the issue Fountainhill raised, yes, the cultural differences, often embedded in language, are similarly quite "foreign" (to westerners) here in Thailand. I can't count the number of times that Thai language teachers and Thai friends have told me "you shouldn't say that" because something, although seemingly truthful and innocent, is simply too rude a comment in Thailand. For example only, if you're asked if you are hungry, you never say "no" even if you're already stuffed to the gills as it's simply too "rude." You say (if you're not hungry) "only a little bit." Even in a night-market setting, I've been told too many times by Thai friends not to say "paeng maak" (meaning too expensive) as it's simply too rude; instead, you politely ask for a discount (lot noi dai mai?).

 

Those of us who have lived with Thais long term, I think, have already figured out what most of the coded language means. Much like the American wife who asks her husband if he likes a given outfit and he answers "it's okay", "fine", or "nice" (she then knows he thinks it sucks!).

 

One face-saving common phrase is "up to you" which allows the speaker to totally avoid confrontation and any embarrassment by leaving the choice to somebody else. I've learned to get it in first (which normally frustrates the Thai I'm talking to at the time) but, unfortunately, there are times when it also might indicate the notion that you're really not interested (and/or, in foreign vernacular, "don't give a shit.").

 

Like the Thai smile and it's varied meanings, the Thai language (and how they apply their cultural logic to the limited English most of them know) often "aint what it appears." Navigating the language difficulties let alone occasional generational (age) related differences is sometimes not all that easy.

[Guest thaiworthy]

I can't count the number of times that Thai language teachers and Thai friends have told me "you shouldn't say that" because something, although seemingly truthful and innocent, is simply too rude a comment in Thailand. For example only, if you're asked if you are hungry, you never say "no" even if you're already stuffed to the gills as it's simply too "rude." You say (if you're not hungry) "only a little bit."

 

Boy, is that the truth. If you ask the bf if he likes pizza, he will tell everyone, "a little bit." The truth is, he HATES pizza. How right you are, Bob! I also agree with "Up to you" and that sly Thai smile. You know your Thais!

[Guest fountainhall]

how long do you live here in BKK? Do you still make discoveries in that field?

 

I have lived here for over 10 years now and been visiting quite regularly since 1979. And yes, I am making new discoveries all the time! Perhaps I am slightly different than some long-stayers in that I constantly seem to have new problems with Thai logic. Yet, I don't have such problems with Chinese, and I am perfectly comfortable with Japanese in Japan where frequently what is said bears little relation to what the speaker really wants to say. I seem to be much more attuned to the undercurrents in a conversation or situation than I am here in Thailand!

[Guest anonone]

For example only, if you're asked if you are hungry, you never say "no" even if you're already stuffed to the gills as it's simply too "rude." You say (if you're not hungry) "only a little bit."

 

One face-saving common phrase is "up to you" which allows the speaker to totally avoid confrontation and any embarrassment by leaving the choice to somebody else. I've learned to get it in first (which normally frustrates the Thai I'm talking to at the time)

 

Like the Thai smile and it's varied meanings, the Thai language (and how they apply their cultural logic to the limited English most of them know) often "aint what it appears."

 

Great post Bob. Very accurate and well stated.

 

I have been getting a chuckle from the "up to you" comment. BF uses it occastionally, but hates when I do. It is now a source of humor for both of us. "We decide together" is the new catch phrase when either one of us tries the "up 2 u" route.

 

The "little bit" answer when asked if hungry is a revelation to me. Very common response from the BF which I now understand a bit better.

 

One of the things I love is to discover these cultural nuggets, so thanks for taking the time to post them.

[Rogie]

One of the things I love is to discover these cultural nuggets . . .

 

Couldn't agree more, plenty of food-for-thought there. Anyone got any other examples?

[Guest fountainhall]

The thread is basically about differing cultural values and ways of looking at life and relationships. It started with my outline of the problems encountered by my friend David. Having now discussed the situation with him several more times, he agrees that he should have been more honest about his own feelings and 'put his foot down' after the first episode in Hua Hin (when his new bf disappeared for some time to Hua Hin and had been with another farang). They have not seen each other again.

 

Then, more recently, something happened to me - something which both surprised me and saddened me.

 

I don’t often go on to gayromeo. But when I am working, it is sometimes interesting to keep the window open and see if anyone wants to chat. One afternoon, I got chatting to a 27 yo who had ‘clicked’ on my profile. He spoke extremely good English, had a good job paying more than 100K per month and was looking for both friends and a relationship.

 

After an hour of chat, he phoned me. He suggested we have dinner. I agreed to go to Thonglo BTS station near where he lived, he picked me up in his car and we went to a very nice restaurant that he had chosen. After drinks and an excellent dinner, he said he’d take me home. In the car he kissed me – and what happened thereafter needs no explanation (other than it happened at home and not in the car ).

 

I think we both realised we liked each other a lot. The next day he had to go to a dental clinic to have an impacted wisdom tooth removed. He asked if I’d accompany him. The cute dentist – definitely gay – suggested my friend and I have lunch first as he would not be able to eat much later in the day, which we did. After the procedure, he dropped me at Thonglo BTS.

 

Over the next couple of weeks, we met regularly, chatted on the phone a lot, had several lunches/dinners/coffees. He seemed very comfortable and content in my presence. There was no pressure to do anything. Then one Saturday, he wanted to go and see the Thai movie “It Gets Better”. We went to Terminal 21, just missing the early afternoon screening. So we decided to hang around till the 5:15 show, in the interim having a long lunch, a wander around the shops and then a long coffee at Starbucks. When there, I attempted the Bangkok Post’s cryptic crossword – the most difficult of the week. I noticed he was taking photos of me with his iPhone. When I saw that they had me looking too serious, I suggested he delete them and replace them with photos of me smiling. No, he said, he liked them.

 

As soon as the movie started, he took my left hand in his. After about 20 minutes, he took my arm and wrapped his arms around it. After the movie, at around 7:00 pm as we were going down the escalators, I was about to suggest that we go to my apartment and later have dinner when he stopped by the car park entrance. He had to go home to do a work project. OK, I said, let’s chat again tomorrow and fix up some times to meet next week. That was the last I have ever seen of him.

 

Over the next few days, I called and texted many times. No replies. I knew it was a difficult week for him workwise, so I did not put on any pressure. But towards the end of the week I realised something major was wrong. Eventually. I called him from my fixed-line phone. He answered after a couple of rings! When he knew who was calling, he said he was driving (which I could tell) and he would call me back. I told him about all the calls and messages. He just said, “I’ll call back, I promise - I promise.” He never called back.

 

Inevitably, my mind raced through all the permutations of what might have happened. There is no doubt in my mind that his feelings were genuine. Equally, nothing happened on that Saturday to change them. But he certainly knew that he was to be ditching me that evening. Since I always find Thai logic difficult, I can only assume that one of two things happened. The more charitable one is that he was being posted outside Bangkok for his job (something he had told me was a possibility) and would therefore not be able to work on any relationship. Or he had lied and was already in a relationship with someone who was returning to Bangkok after an absence.

 

I guess I’ll never know. I hope I will meet him again. Just in case, I did leave an “I’ll be here for you” message on my last sms. But I guess he will remain simply a memory - a nice one, but a sad one. I just wish I knew WHY!

[Guest thaiworthy]

Or he had lied and was already in a relationship with someone who was returning to Bangkok after an absence.

 

BINGO!

 

(Sorry this happened to you, sir . . . but don't feel sad. You should already know why, since why else would you post this in the "Lies and Damned Lies thread?" You will feel better about this after some passage of time and can look back objectively.)

[kokopelli]

JACKPOT. Obvious explanation likely the true explanation.

[Guest snapshot]

I guess I’ll never know. I hope I will meet him again. Just in case, I did leave an “I’ll be here for you” message on my last sms. But I guess he will remain simply a memory -  a nice one, but a sad one. I just wish I knew WHY!

 

Interesting story FH... Not going to speculate on why this particular guy never returned your calls but I have an anecdote that may relate to it. 

 

One thing I've found a lot of Thais and Asians in general don't value is closure or offering others the decency of having closure.

 

When I was chatting with my ex-boyfriend about our relationship histories one thing I caught on was that he never told his ex's why he broke up with them. Never gave them a real or meaningful reason. He asked why he should bother to do that since he was breaking up with them. If he cared about them and liked them, then he would give them feedback. But if he didn't care and just wanted to break up that was it. He didn't bother to tell them anything. Sometimes he would just disappear on them. 

 

So not only did they not get feedback (that is such a vital ingredient for improvement and development), they never got closure either. 

 

It took a while to get him to understand the importance of closure as an element of treating people with decency. 

 

Another one of my ex's who is Bangkok based was the opposite when he broke up with me. From a good family, well educated and very intelligent, he actually took the trouble to follow up and come and see me and explain his feelings and why he didn't want to continue the relationship the way it was (and it did make sense not to). He could have not bothered, especially as I was leaving that day but I think he understood that everyone needs closure. He even took half a day off work to drive me to the airport.. We've stayed good friends ever since. 

 

So yeah, I always believe in giving people who have made a difference in your life some closure when it comes time to part ways or change the nature of the relationship... Some people who aren't as aware don't realise how important this is.