bkkguy Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 this is an example of a visa issued by the Royal Thai Government note that it clearly states the visa type, the date you have to enter the kingdom by, and how many entries you can make on this visa - because a visa is about permission to enter Thailand. the permission to stay you get when you enter Thailand is determined by the visa type. the form to apply for this is called "Application for Visa" this is an example of an extension of permission to stay issued by the Royal Thai Government note that it does not say it is a visa anywhere, it does not mention the date you have to enter the kingdom by, and how many entries you can make because it is not a visa - a visa is about permission to enter Thailand, this is a permission to stay so it indicates when you have to leave the country, a totally different concept. The form to apply for this is called "Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" this is an example of a re-entry permit issued by the Royal Thai Government note that it does not say it is a visa anywhere, it is a re-entry permit and can only be applied for when you do not have a current visa but do have a current permission to stay and wish to leave the kingdom and re-enter. The permission to stay granted on re-entry is not related to a visa type because this is not a visa, it is determined by the permission to stay you had when you applied for the permit - again a totally different concept. The form to apply for this is called "Application for Re-Entry Permit into the Kingdom" I am not the one making this up - this is the terminology and concepts used by the Royal Thai Government I've shown you mine GB, you show me yours - was the stamp you cropped the word "RETIREMENT" out of a visa or an extension of permission to stay? Bkkguy can argue about it all he wants from now 'til Kingdom Come, but to me that makes it a retirement visa and perfectly proper to call it a retirement visa. Actually I am quite happy with the Royal Thai Government's concept of visa, permission to stay and re-entry permit and the forms you need to use - you are the one that seems to think you have to right to re-define what a retirement visa is so I suggest you have the discussion with either the Foreign Ministry or the Interior Ministry because they are the ones you need to convince - not me! And, while I acknowledge that each year I apply for a "new" one-year time period on a form saying I am asking for an "extension", I get a new stamp on a "visa" page that says that my "application of stay is permitted up to" a given date. That's a written governmental okay to be in Thailand during the one-year time period and, if that isn't a 'visa", I guess I don't know what is. yes I guess you don't - try using that permission to stay stamp as a visa to gain entry to the country and see how far you get! bkkguy
Guest fountainhall Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 this is an example of a re-entry permit issued by the Royal Thai Government note that it does not say it is a visa anywhere Now, this is all very interesting. Have you told Thai Immigration this? No? Then why is it, I wonder, that every time I enter Thailand (as I do regularly) and have to fill in the "Thailand Visa No." line on the Arrival Immigration form, it is the number on the document above that must - I repeat, must - be inserted. Note: there is no line requesting insertion of a "Re-entry Permit number"! So if Thai Immigration's official terminology calls this a "Visa", why are you misleading readers yet again?
Bob Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 As Khun Thaiworthy said before, again we have much ado about anything, pedantically speaking. Bkk, you can play your pedantic games if you want but nobody's going to buy into your narrow definitions. A visa under many definitions and as most non-pedantic people understand it is both a permission to come into a country and permission to travel and stay in that country. There are hundreds of internet sites that refer to the "retirement visas" and, of course, everyone of those posts are by people who simply must be stupid (as, under your logic there's no such thing as a "retirement visa" in Thailand and it's only some wildly different beast called a "permission to stay"). You might as well go tilt at windmills as you have zero chance to get your "logic" accepted in this or any crowd. And you're somewhat hoisted on your own pedantic petard. Under your logic, a visa is only governmental permission to enter a country and, if that's your definition, then one can't understand why you aren't arguing that a "re-entry permit" is in fact a visa.
bkkguy Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Then why is it, I wonder, that every time I enter Thailand (as I do regularly) and have to fill in the "Thailand Visa No." line on the Arrival Immigration form, it is the number on the document above that must - I repeat, must - be inserted. every time? I am surprised, because sometimes when I enter Thailand I have a visa and sometimes I am entering on a Re-Entry permit and if I have a visa I enter that number and if I have a re-entry permit I enter that number what is so special about you that they will only let you into Thailand with a re-entry permit rather than a visa? Note: there is no line requesting insertion of a "Re-entry Permit number"! exactly, I think this is a problem but it is not my responsibility - perhaps you should be discussing this with the designer of the form or the government department that issues the form, I can give you their number if you want it! So if Thai Immigration's official terminology calls this a "Visa", why are misleading readers yet again? apart from bad form design I have not seen you post any evidence that the Immigration Police or the Interior Ministry or even the Foreign Ministry consider the Re-Entry Permit to be a visa! bkkguy
Guest fountainhall Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 every time? I am surprised Oh really? Well, that is indeed surprising, because you are so sure of your facts. I'll repeat - "EVERY time"! Seems your facts are not as accurate as you make them out to be and that you are confusing readers - with respect! I think this is a problem but it is not my responsibility - perhaps you should be discussing this with the designer of the form or the government department that issues the form, I can give you their number if you want it! apart from bad form design I have not seen you post any evidence that the Immigration Police or the Interior Ministry or even the Foreign Ministry consider the Re-Entry Permit to be a visa! Excuse me! You stated above that the form IS NOT a Visa! I don't care what it is or is not, but the Thai Immigration Entry form and the authorities at Suvarnabhumi state it IS a "Visa". Are your words not your "responsibility"? And since you get so worked up about it, it is you who should be approaching the Immigration authorities, not me. I am perfectly happy with the way things are. As you have the telephone number, no doubt you will do that first thing on Monday morning. I have no reason to do so. Do please post and tell us what they say.
Guest fountainhall Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 as I said these are not my terms and concepts, these are from the Royal Thai Government Oh dear! Oh dear! In two posts you claim that you are quoting "terms" used by the Royal Thai Government (here's another) - I am not the one making this up - this is the terminology and concepts used by the Royal Thai Government Yet, in another you complain that the Royal Thai Government is using the wrong terms - and that you are correct. So who is making it up - you or the Royal Thai Government? As you said, "exactly, I think this is a problem." Pity! It clearly is a problem because it does not fit in with your theory.
Gaybutton Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 I've shown you mine GB, you show me yours - was the stamp you cropped the word "RETIREMENT" out of a visa or an extension of permission to stay? Extension of stay. When I showed you mine, it clearly shows the word "RETIREMENT" does it not? What's the part I'm so wrong about? What's the part you think I have a problem about? Is it because I call it a visa when on a technical basis it's not actually a visa? As I said before, call it what you want. I'm going to call it a retirement visa because that's what it amounts to. Does this quibbling about technical terms really matter? It doesn't matter to me in the slightest. To me whether the term "visa" is stamped in or not, it's a retirement visa. The Immigration authorities stamped in the word "retirement" and guess what - I never used the word "retirement" on my application and nobody asked me whether it's for retirement. Nevertheless, you saw for yourself the word "retirement" stamped in by Immigration on my . . . whatever you call it. I don't have a problem about anything. What I have, no matter what term you want to use, is what is needed annually to stay in Thailand for another year. I don't give a damn whether technically it's called a retirement visa, an extension, or anything else. There's nothing for me to research and report back about because I couldn't care less. The important thing, and what the subject of this thread is by the way, is not what it's called, but how to get it.
Guest fountainhall Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 A re-entry permit is not a visa and I defy you to show me any statement from the Thai Government that says it is So you again allege - wrongly - that the Royal Thai Government Immigration form is incorrect! What is the wording on an Immigration Form if it is not a "statement"? Oh, I forgot! You already stated you "think this wording is a problem". Enough said! I suggest you stop confusing everyone.
Gaybutton Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Forget it, fountainhall. Some people argue only because they like to needlessly and pointlessly argue. No matter what you say, that type will still argue no matter how nonsensical it gets.
Bob Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Out of curiosity only, Bkk, what's your definition of a "visa?" I'd note that in my passport is a nice blue stamp which is marked Non Immigrant Visa at the top which was issued in Thailand (I was already here via a document issued in the US named a Tourist Visa). If you are defining a visa as only written governmental permission to enter a country, it's interesting that they would give me permission to enter after I was already here for more than a month.
Guest fountainhall Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Some people argue only because they like to needlessly and pointlessly argue. No matter what you say, that type will still argue no matter how nonsensical it gets. I understand that. But I do not see why any poster should be allowed - unchallenged - to spew unfounded allegations about moderators, as in the “Dongtan Beach Photos” thread - if the moderators and owners had enough "guts" they would admit they had a problem here! – and lies about another poster (me - see this thread posts #15, #17 and #20) and conveniently get away with it only because the thread has moved on. Nor do I think anyone setting themselves up as an expert should be allowed to get away with providing inaccurate fanciful advice just because he thinks he knows what - as in the examples above - he clearly does not. But then, of course, I almost forgot. We need to recall that bkkguy actually gave his game away last year when he wrote in the thread “Amazing Thailand: 25 percent of worldwide HDD production” - I don't post here because I want people to like me or my attitude . . . I post here to give useful alternative opinions when people are posting crap, and I will leave it to others to decide for themselves how useful this is even after deducting brownie points for attitude! So poster bkkguy posts "useful alternative opinions" - and is clearly doing so for the fun of it, unconcerned about the possible non-accuracy of these "alternative" opinions. The opinion alone is what matters to bkkguy. I think we all get the message now
bkkguy Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Out of curiosity only, Bkk, what's your definition of a "visa?" "An official authorization appended to a passport, permitting entry into and travel within a particular country or region" is I think a reasonable starting point for discussion here If you are defining a visa as only written governmental permission to enter a country, it's interesting that they would give me permission to enter after I was already here for more than a month. The fact that the Thai government has set up a bureaucratic procedure that requires a certain type of visa in your passport before they can do an extension of permission to stay for certain reasons but they are willing to oil the wheels of bureaucracy by issuing this visa even after you have entered the country is much less disturbing and threatening to my understanding of what a "visa" is than your suggestion above that because a permission to stay in also stamped on a passport page it is also a "visa"! Many countries stamp entry and exit dates on your passport - do you want to call these "visas" now as well? bkkguy
Bob Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 I still believe most of his statements are pedantic logic attempting to triump over common sense and common usage; regardless, the persistence in tilting at windmills is somewhat amazing. For example, a very few people get all upset when somebody refers to the 30-day stamp you get on arrival as a "visa" or a "30-day" visa. They want to play pedantic games and say it's an "exemption" or whatever. In reality, it's governmental written permission stamped on the "Visa" page of people's passports and is permission to travel and stay within the country for 30 days (some could also argue it's after-the-fact permission for entry into the country). Many, many, people over the years have referred to this as their 30-day visa and there is absolutely no rational reason to "technically correct" them or to argue otherwise.
Guest Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Right guys, please keep any further posts constructive, friendly and on topic.
Guest fountainhall Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 friendly Given the various posts which have been removed and those which remain, I think that's as likely as the moon being made of a certain kind of cheese
TotallyOz Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 There are too many deleted posts and issues with this thread to allow it to continue. It is now closed. We are discussing comments made by all posters that are inappropriate. We will not allow vile comments to stand and we will start removing posters who consistently make those comments.
