World

[Guest fountainhall]

The world

[pong]

Hainan is a very strange entry here and should be removed ASAP-if just for the average Chinese stdd they peruse-with hostesses that are hardly able to pronounce a single word correctly in english.

As such financial problems do not relate to standd of onboard service.

[Guest fountainhall]


Hainan is a very strange entry here and should be removed ASAP-if just for the average Chinese stdd they peruse-with hostesses that are hardly able to pronounce a single word correctly in english.


 

I take it the reason for your remark is that you have recently travelled on Hainan Airlines. I haven't. But I have taken several internal flights on Air China, Sichuan Airlines and China Eastern. The standards on Air China in particular have improved beyond all recognition from a few years ago – perhaps a result of its joint management venture with Cathay Pacific.

 

As to Hainan Airlines, Skytrax ratings are arrived at largely by a panel of experts and from comments by the travelling public. If you look at the first Skytrax page for the airline, you will note that of the 16 reviews, six give the top ten-star ranking, four give 9-stars and 4 give 8-stars! Now I defy you to find almost any other airline with so many top notch reviews! Singapore is pretty good with three 10-stars, Asiana has five, Cathay Pacific has only two! Seems that Hainan deserves its elite status.

 

http://www.airlinequ...orum/hainan.htm

[Guest snapshot]

It could be that people rate Hainan as excellent relative to other Mainland China carriers.

 

Never flown Hainan internationally (don't even know if they do international) but was grateful for the option to fly Hainan domestically... beats having to fly China Southern, which I've had to use when Hainan had no availability. CS's domestic flights are utterly terrible! Hainan were much better! They offer domestic business! And I'm told their economy is much better than China Southern.

[Guest fountainhall]

I don't know the detail of how Skytrax evaluates airlines. But I am sure they would not rate Hainan merely because it is the best of one group of national airlines. You mention business class, and I do know their seats on domestic services are angled flat pods. Seems they have several services to the US and Canada

[Guest snapshot]

Yeah, I don't know how Skytrax works so could only suggest what I thought might have been the reason behind it.

 

You mention business class, and I do know their seats on domestic services are angled flat pods.

Hmmm... not really. The business seats I sat in weren't of any special design. Just a giant version of economy class seats. Very old design - like the business class seats I remember (walking past!) when I was a kid. Definitely no "pods" or any special seat back or armrest design.

 

Nothing flashy but I was just happy to be separated from the back and have a bit more room for these 2-3 hour fights!

[Guest fountainhall]

Seems even the pods are now out-of-date as they now offer fully flat beds, but only on their A330s. So I am sure you are correct and that only some domestic connecting flights will have these.

 

http://global.hnair.com/en/classlist.php?id=Hainan_Experience/Whats_Onboard/Cabin_Class/330_300_new_business_class.html

[Guest thaiworthy]

i don't want to offend anyone, but I assume this thread is just for the sake of discussion. Do any of you guys really fly in this class of service? (Apologies, if so)

 

Speaking only for myself, I don't understand the need for all this opulence. Do we really need a seat that inclines 180 degrees?

 

I am traveling to a country (Thailand) where the people are genuinely happy with little or nothing. The fact that my own mode of transportation is plain, old-fashioned economy comforts me no end.

[kokopelli]

i don't want to offend anyone, but I assume this thread is just for the sake of discussion. Do any of you guys really fly in this class of service? (Apologies, if so)

 

The answer is yes. And I love it. For me to fly cattle class on such a long flight is more then I could bear once I became spoiled by Business Class. But for the most part I earned this privilege by many flights and earning frequent flyer miles. Unfortunately the cost of upgrades is so high that I can no longer afford them. I do know others that love those 180 degree flat beds but for me something less inclined makes it much easier to drink the champagne.

[Guest thaiworthy]

The answer is yes. And I love it. For me to fly cattle class on such a long flight is more then I could bear once I became spoiled by Business Class.

 

I had quite a different experience.

 

http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=416&p=4935

[Guest fountainhall]

I agree with kokopelli. With so much business travel over the years, I admit I have become spoiled in being able to enjoy flat-bed seats and all the other trimmings - and gain the frequent flyer miles that provide me with upgrades for holiday travel. And let's not forget credit card spending. For years, the many miles I earned were worth more when used for travel than the credit card charges. But now that these charges have increased (at least on my cards), I use them much more sparingly.

 

With work falling off and upgrades now far costlier - both in terms of the cash and the miles required - I'll be downgrading soon. But unlike kokopelli, I have no trouble drinking the champagne

[Bob]

The one negative of living over here most of the year - versus coming here 2 or 3 times a year - is I'm not accumulating the air miles; so, "upgrades" are events that only happen to me every 3-4 years.

But I can't fly cattle class anymore so have to shovel out the extra cost of the premium economy ("elite" or "evergreen deluxe" on EVA). It's not quite as good as business class but just about the same to me and half as expensive. It'll do.

 

For those who haven't read before Khun Thaiworthy's experience with the "elbow-poking bitch", you ought to click on his link above and read it. While it's difficult to understand why this woman or anybody would act like that, I still can't believe that Khun Thaiworthy didn't stuff the bitch into an overhead compartment.

[Guest thaiworthy]

For those who haven't read before Khun Thaiworthy's experience with the "elbow-poking bitch", you ought to click on his link above and read it. While it's difficult to understand why this woman or anybody would act like that, I still can't believe that Khun Thaiworthy didn't stuff the bitch into an overhead compartment.

 

Quite right, but I'm a pacifist, Bob. However, I will concede that Evergreen Deluxe or similar would be worth it if you need it. It seems, however, that most of the members here only upgrade if they can use air miles, instead of cash. And that seems quite reasonable, as well. But sadly, I agree, those days are getting fewer and far between. Until then, gimme my peanuts and Coke and I'll pass on the Champagne!

[kokopelli]

But I can't fly cattle class anymore so have to shovel out the extra cost of the premium economy ("elite" or "evergreen deluxe" on EVA). It's not quite as good as business class but just about the same to me and half as expensive. It'll do.

 

Another alternative is Thai Air Premium Economy which has even better seating then EVA. But the flight from the USA is only from Los Angles and is 17 hour nonstop to BKK.

[Guest]

I don't understand the need for all this opulence. Do we really need a seat that inclines 180 degrees?

No, I don't NEED it. I WANT it, but have always made the rational decision to go economy. Paying £1000 extra & getting 4 hours extra sleep on the overnight leg seems like a poor return (I do not value the other perks highly). Saving for early retirement is a much higher priority to me. So I'm with Thaiworthy at the back of the plane.

 

Now if I was considerably wealthier, it would be straight to the front of the plane.

I just don't understand people like the billionaire Ikea founder who allegedly still flies economy.

[Guest thaiworthy]

So I'm with Thaiworthy at the back of the plane.

 

It's been lonely back here Z, glad to have you aboard. The difference between needing and wanting means a tall man with long legs might need that extra room. Or someone whose girth requires a wider seat. But neither of them really need that glass of champagne. I don't think there are many here paying that £1000, but I sure see a lot of frequent flier miles being discussed. The Ikea guy doesn't really surprise me that much. Some rich people got that way by learning how not to spend money. Some habits die hard.

[pong]

I take it the reason for your remark is that you have recently travelled on Hainan Airlines. I haven't. But I have taken several internal flights on Air China, Sichuan Airlines and China Eastern. The standards on Air China in particular have improved beyond all recognition from a few years ago – perhaps a result of its joint management venture with Cathay Pacific.

 

As to Hainan Airlines, Skytrax ratings are arrived at largely by a panel of experts and from comments by the travelling public. If you look at the first Skytrax page for the airline, you will note that of the 16 reviews, six give the top ten-star ranking, four give 9-stars and 4 give 8-stars! Now I defy you to find almost any other airline with so many top notch reviews! Singapore is pretty good with three 10-stars, Asiana has five, Cathay Pacific has only two! Seems that Hainan deserves its elite status.

 

http://www.airlinequ...orum/hainan.htm

 

Yes-I know how skytrax works-and I have also studied uni level statistics, incl. SPSS and all that. That nr of comments is FAR too low for any serious rating. Given the way most Chinese bisnis operate, I bet most are the 50 cts paid for, for what the Chinese hackers and bloggers etc are so famous for.

Plus: if their appraisals only come from Chinese-I also loose any trust in them-people who may never have been into any other airline. Then I rather read independent traveller ratings in non-english-and compare them with other airls I know.

In the end you must have noted we have a kind of different view on many things (mainland)Chinese: I admire the progress they make, but . maybe being formed that in TH, also am perhaps too quick to suspect cheating, deceit and the tipical chinese way of doing bisnis (make a monopoly and oust out all competition-just like the CN govmt also operates). Unless they can finally convince me its different now. And I think I do have my own experience there-lately 3 longer trips, al on my own, with the basic means like trains, guesthss etc-not a a pampered 5* all-taken care off deceiting weshowyouonly whatwewanttoshow- trip.

[pong]

. So I'm with Thaiworthy at the back of the plane.

 

Trick is-have done that quite a few times)-if you fly regularly into TH, like I do and maybe some other long intercontinental flights-stick to 1 airlinegroup and get their Freq flyer cards with status-like on TH gold or LH/STAR (also UAL -silver. Gives you lounge access, often the better wider seats and every now and then an upgrade-if they are short of seats, you are nr 1 to upgrade.

Often they also do special deals for that group-THai often does. Best site for that is flyertalk.com

Re IKEA: yes, its true-but maybe also has to do with how SAS=the Scandinvian works with prcing. Plus that f.e. domestic Scandinavian, there is hardly any bisnis cl. left-most are eco only now.

[Guest fountainhall]

Trick is . . . stick to 1 airlinegroup and get their Freq flyer cards with status-like on TH gold or LH/STAR

 

Totally agree. That is now about the only way you can have a reasonable expectation of an occasional upgrade. Any other time it will be pure luck!

[Guest]

The fares I get don't seem to qualify for any points on the Eva scheme. Loyalty scheme points are no longer "free" if I have to go for one of the more expensive economy seats.

 

As for the Ikea founder, well I reckon he's earning over 5000 Euros a minute & still choosing to fly economy. Allegedly.

[Guest fountainhall]

The fares I get don't seem to qualify for any points on the Eva scheme.

 

With airline alliances getting ever larger, what concerns me about airline points - and also hotel frequent stay points, for that matter - is the increasing need to chase up credit of points. Computer systems are supposed to credit these automatically, but although I now fly less than before, I have to spend much more time sending all the paperwork to prove the flight/hotel stay. So much for computerisation!

[Guest snapshot]

I am traveling to a country (Thailand) where the people are genuinely happy with little or nothing.

I know you don't mean badly by this but very wrong to categorise the entire country like this and you're showing a LOT of ignorance when you say Thai people are "genuinely happy with little or nothing".

 

A Thai immigrant I'm dating started with nothing and sure as hell wasn't happy with that. Because he's worked his arse off for the last four years, simultaneously working three jobs at times to come up with the $150k in seed cash and academic qualifications to open his own business... impressive for a young and foreign-educated immigrant. That kind of drive just blows my mind away. No way I could do what he's done so quick and I started with a good education and stable family, a lot more than he did. Spending time with him is like spending time with someone who moves at 100 miles/hr and yet he still maintains this cheerful, charming and always-laughing Thai demeanor. So humbling getting to know him.

 

Another Thai guy (in Thailand) I dated obviously wasn't happy to earn 6,000 baht/month as an unskilled worker because he studied like crazy and now works a 6-day week to earn a higher wage than most Westerners in their 40s earn, in his twenties.

 

I'm sure there's exceptions but I think most of the Thai people you see as being "genuinely happy with little or nothing" aren't really happy with nothing... Most either just don't know how to make "something" or just can't get their shit together due to poor upbringing, lack of positive influences or a disorganised mind.

 

The reason you think they're "genuinely happy" like this is because Thai people are very good at living in the present, being happy in the moment and not getting overly worried about the future. They keep up a cheerful, positive and charming persona at the worst or toughest of times. It doesn't mean they're "happy with nothing".

[Guest thaiworthy]

Snapshot, oh my, that was quite some rant! This has some unsettling overtones of rage embedded in it and I don't how or why you have interpreted these things as a score against me.

 

Re: your first post: my intention was not too belittle a whole country or group of people. You seem to have taken nearly every comment very literally and out of context. I agree there are many Thais with the desire to succeed and for that they should be admired, praised and congratulated.

 

My point was to contrast some Thais with some people I have lived with most of my life who seem pessimistic and down on themselves at times, no matter what they have, including me to some degree, I guess.

 

So it isn't ignorance. It's jealousy. I find it difficult to live in the present, happy in the moment and not getting overly worried about the future. But that's me. Thais have an advantage in that one singular vision that enables them to do things their Western counterparts can't. This statement is really a reflection on me, rather than on Thais. If you want to call this ignorance, so be it, but it's not the ignorance you have cited.

 

Snapshot, this was just a casual remark that you have blown out of proportion. But you can think all that if you want to, it's your choice and your opinion.

 

This is also awkwardly off-topic, what does it have to do with the World's Five-Star Airlines? So before you continue to hang me out to dry, please consider starting a new thread. That way you can have me all to yourself and the moderators can moderate without damage to the topic at hand.

 

i don't want to offend anyone, but I assume this thread is just for the sake of discussion. Do any of you guys really fly in this class of service? (Apologies, if so)

Re: your second post: Snapshot, did you miss the part where I said "I don't want to offend anyone," or where I said "Apologies, if so?" If not, then why are you offended?

 

I don't have a clue as to what you mean by "aliens filling up the front of the plane." You lost me on that one.

 

Needs vs wants: Everyone has a different view of needs and wants, if mine isn't the same as yours, so what?

 

Spending business-class cash: Congratulations. I am happy you are comfortable with spending your money in any way you choose.

 

Confiscated backbone: why are you judging my actions (or lack thereof?) You weren't on the plane now, were you?

 

That's all. Whew! Unexpected to say the least. Must be a day for nasty threads.

[Rogie]

Back on-topic: Sorry to say this but just how Hainan Airlines rates in the Skytrack ratings bores me to death. I'd never heard of them before this topic was started. Generalising, what we have here is a topic that polarises opinion from keen interest to, like me, acute boredom. I hadn't contributed to the thread before because it's churlish to trash a thread in this way, so I just let it pass over me, like I do many other topics in which I have nothing constructive to say. However, now the thread as a whole has become polarised along other lines I feel it's fair to comment, as I say in general terms, as I don't wish to upset anyone. It's fair to use a member's own experiences to highlight his contributions and that often adds an extra dimension to what members have to say. So in certain circumstances like the issue of Hainan being given a high ranking, if you have actually flown with that airline that affords a bit more weight to your comments - fair enough. Ditto if you have flown in Hainan or indeed any other airline 'up front' and can comment on the standards of their business or first class seats, etc. If any of us, me included, who sit at the back feel a bit excluded from this kind of chatter, too bad, it's nothing personal, that kind of disparity is an insignificant part of most people's lives. If I do feel a twinge of envy as I shuffle my bottom and wriggle my toes in my cramped cattle-seat (I'm only human!) I remind myself that many of our members who fly 'up front' do so out of their hard-earned efforts, and I include in that ways in which air miles are accumulated. Until recently I didn't know much about air miles, now I'm beginning to realise there is an art in it, and I have to admire anyone who can make the system work for him in that way. However, when a member uses his experiences as ammunition to criticise comments made by another member, he has to be very careful. I think sometimes this is inadvertent and not malicious - if a member is very interested in a subject he may well allow his enthusiasm to get the better of him,

[Guest fountainhall]

Yes-I know how skytrax works-and I have also studied uni level statistics, incl. SPSS and all that. That nr of comments is FAR too low for any serious rating. Given the way most Chinese bisnis operate, I bet most are the 50 cts paid for, for what the Chinese hackers and bloggers etc are so famous for.

 

But you seem not to be aware that Skytrax is not based on the published comments at all, for that would be open, as you suggest, to all sorts of abuse. These provide merely a guide. To quote from the Skytrax site -

 

Airline Star Ranking levels are not based on customer feedback or reviews, but the detailed Audit programme that ensures every airline is guaranteed a fair and independent approach. Ratings look at all areas of an airline's airport and onboard product and service standards, and this is applied across all cabin types, be they short, medium or long haul. Within the Star Ranking criteria, there are key requirements that will determine a final ranking level, and these govern key product areas such as seat standards and inflight entertainment . . .

 

World Airline Star Rating® provides the world airline industry (and it's customers) with a professional, unified Quality classification system that is the internationally recognized symbol of airline product and service standards.

 

Every airline is ranked on the basis of the delivered front-line Product and Service quality - with Star Ranking levels representing international product and service standards. (In the case of domestic-only airlines, Star Ranking reflects domestic product and service quality.)

 

http://www.airlinequ...ing/ranking.htm

 

And it is the fact that Skytrax' reserach is so thorough and on-going that it's ratings are trusted throughout the industry. With Hainan having international service, I have to assume that it is rated internationally and not domestically.