Silom Complex Closure - Bargains Galore!

[bkkguy]

Hopefully the owner, who it appears also owns Jupiter go-go off Suriwong, will take a lesson from all the failed ventures on that site and go back to the old Rome Club formula.

 

given her outstanding success with "For Fun" I would not be holding my breath!

 

meanwhile back on topic, lunching today at one of the new eateries in the still being renovated "downstairs" at United Center I saw two Silom Complex moneybois wandering about checking out a possible new territory!

 

I am still waiting for confirmation from Silom Complex management that they are offering free facelifts to all the moneybois so they will not feel out of place when the re-modelled complex opens.

 

bkkguy

[Guest Motel69]

... Only then, and if you happen to see 'an older gentleman' 'taking care' of 'some cute young guys' bills with your own eyes, can you say with any confidence what actually happened.

 

 

Perhaps I am guilty again of using a description that just doesn't fit. This older gentleman I mentioned was very well dressed. Very well groomed. He spoke well and had good posture. He was obviously the product of a good upbringing and a good education. He had obviously been a success in life, and I was sure he was still successful in his current business, which he said was owner of The Balcony.

 

I was not trying to describe a punter.

 

So this guy happened to share one tiny insight with me as to how he runs his business? I'm sure he has a lot more secrets that go into running a successful business in a foreign country, especially one that seems so inhospitable to foreign business owners.

 

What I don't understand is why I hit a nerve when I relayed this one anecdote. The owners of Balcony obviously rely on the tourist trade, and on a particular segment of the tourist trade. They obviously know why the demographic their business targets travels to Bangkok. And they realize their business will be more popular if young, cute gay men hung out at their establishment.

 

It is not illegal to give away a few drinks. And if that's all it takes to get the cuteys sitting at your tables, then what's wrong with it?

 

Why is it so disturbing to learn this?

 

It's smart business. If anything, the owners should be patted on the back.

 

Of course, these small bribes are also an easy way out. Like I said in my original post: The entire neighborhood could use some rejuvenation.

 

But that's gonna cost a whole lot more than a few Singhas.

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps I am guilty again of using a description that just doesn't fit. This older gentleman I mentioned was very well dressed. Very well groomed. He spoke well and had good posture. He was obviously the product of a good upbringing and a good education. He had obviously been a success in life, and I was sure he was still successful in his current business, which he said was owner of The Balcony.

Since some of your 'facts' were slightly out of kilter earlier, I wonder if perhaps this one is too. Here I must admit I know/have known none of the owners of establishments in that soi - or in most others, for that matter. So I have no axe to grind. But when I moved to Bangkok in 2001, I got to know the owner of the Xtreme bar in Soi Twilight. He had at least made an effort to introduce change by having a nightly show by young professional dancers interspersed between the go-go dancing. The dancers and their routines were mostly extremely good, and he built up a small but loyal following. Sadly, the economics of the bar business caught up with him and he sold out.

 

I bring him up because he and some of the dancers then went to work at Roxy. That would have been around 6 - 7 years ago. He happened to be an older, very well-spoken Englishman. In fact, prior to coming to Thailand he had been a relatively senior official in the Church of England. Now, I may be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with the wrong answer, but your description of the man you say owned Balcony sounds very like the man of whom I am talking. Since this was one conversation held many years ago, could you not have mistaken someone involved with Roxy with someone owning Balcony?

 

The entire neighborhood could use some rejuvenation.

Well, from someone whose experience in that soi in the last 7 years or so has amounted to a few peeks, I have to say that is way over the top! May I suggest that next time you are in Bangkok, whenever that may be, you actually spend a little more of your time in the soi. Then you will be in a better position to make pertinent comments on the basis of actual experience, I suggest!

[Guest thaiworthy]

I really hated it. It was exactly as I described.

 

But since then I have passed by the soi on my yearly trips to Bangkok. Sometimes I even take a walk down a little ways. And each time I do I get the same feeling.

That's quite some attitude you got there. How do you feel about Pattaya?

 

May I suggest that next time you are in Bangkok, whenever that may be, you actually spend a little more of your time in the soi. Then you will be in a better position to make pertinent comments on the basis of actual experience, I suggest!

Agreed!

[Guest Motel69]

Since some of your 'facts' were slightly out of kilter earlier

 

I didn't get any facts wrong; I made a typo, inadvertently referring to Soi 4 as Soi 2.

 

 

Well, from someone whose experience in that soi in the last 7 years or so has amounted to a few peeks, I have to say that is way over the top! May I suggest that next time you are in Bangkok, whenever that may be, you actually spend a little more of your time in the soi. Then you will be in a better position to make pertinent comments on the basis of actual experience, I suggest!

 

Sorry, Fountainhall, but you misunderstand my brashness. I was thinking on a much, much larger scale when I said, "The entire neighborhood could use some rejuvenation."

 

Like I said in my original post on this thread, I was thinking of that entire end of Silom, from Rama IV to beyond Patpong.

 

Let's face it: The neighborhood is dieing. That's why Silom Complex is about to undergo a remodel (the initial topic of this thread). That's why the Robinson's building remains without its department store namesake. That is why DJ Station no longer packs 'em in like it used to.

 

The entire neighborhood has deteriorated. A lot. And in a number of ways. That the young and hip no longer hang out along Silom in great numbers is only one indication of this. If the Soi 4 business owners want to deny this, if the Soi 4 regulars don't even want to consider this, well, fine. Like I said, I don't hang out there anymore.

 

Take a look around, though. Next time you're on Soi 4, take a mental snapshot. Then do the same thing at the gay bar area near Chatuchak. Or at any tourist venue, like Wat Arun. Or in any shopping mall. You'll see what I'm talking about. As soon as you leave Soi 4, as soon as you leave the Silom area, the world becomes a much, much more youthful place. A much more vibrant place.

 

And you know what? While you're at it, take a look at what's happening in the rest of Asia. Already a lot of people are skipping Thailand for Cambodia. Already, young gay Asians are traveling to Taipei to party. I fear Thailand's reputation as a gay Mecca is now only that among the old-timers.

 

I myself used to travel to Thailand two or three times a year. Now I'm down to once. And I go to Taipei twice a year. It is so much more fun and peaceful than Bangkok. The G5 parties remind me of DJ Station in its heyday, only a hundred times bigger. And with much better music. And with so much more euphoria in the air. Luxy, where they hold the G5 party, is a truly glamorous venue. There's no seediness, and seedy, unfortunately, is exactly what the Silom area has devolved into.

 

And this year, I'll be cutting my Bangkok trip short. My boyfriend insists on making a stop so we can visit our favorite haunts: Siam Center, the riverside restaurants, the Scirocco bird's nest bar, Benjarong in the Dusit Thani.

 

Silom Soi 4 hasn't been on our itinerary for years. Bangkok has so much more to offer. And this year, DJ Station won't even merit a visit. We're cutting the trip short so we can jump over to Cambodia and check out the gay scenes there.

 

Goodbye, Thailand.

[Guest Motel69]

That's quite some attitude you got there. How do you feel about Pattaya?

 

It disgusts me. Can't stand it.

 

Agreed!

 

Are you two offering to pay for my drinks?

[Guest fountainhall]

Like I said in my original post on this thread, I was thinking of that entire end of Silom, from Rama IV to beyond Patpong.

Here I will agree with you. The upper ends of Silom and Suriwong are definitely falling behind other entertainment districts when you compare them to the rejuvenated Thonglor, for example. I certainly don't agree though that they are dying, however. It is people that make a district successful - not buildings. You can have the greatest buildings in the world, but if people do not enter them, they are merely steel and concrete. Whenever I am in the Silom /Suriwong areas, I see loads of people. Despite what you say, SIlom Complex (by implication) is not dying! Its owners have merely taken a rational business decision to upgrade with a view to increasing profits!

 

Already, young gay Asians are traveling to Taipei to party. I fear Thailand's reputation as a gay Mecca is now only that among the old-timers.

As a great fan of Taipei, I am sorry I have to disagree with you. In all my 50+ visits to Taipei, I rarely see any visitors from other parts of Asia, apart from some Japanese. The gay scene there is still somewhat closeted and the parties few and far between. I have seen far, far more young Asians in Bangkok and Pattaya than I have ever seen in Taipei!

 

Goodbye, Thailand.

As you depart Thailand, there will be a helluva lot of young Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Singaporeans, Malaysians and other Asians to make up the numbers - I have zero doubt!

[Guest]

As a great fan of Taipei, I am sorry I have to disagree with you. In all my 50+ visits to Taipei, I rarely see any visitors from other parts of Asia, apart from some Japanese. The gay scene there is still somewhat closeted and the parties few and far between. I have seen far, far more young Asians in Bangkok and Pattaya than I have ever seen in Taipei!

 

Woudln't Taiwan be quite expensive for people from many parts of Asia? That might put a cap on visitor numbers.

I believe it has the third highest gdp per capita in Asia at PPP, 4th highest at market rates (behind Singapore, Hong Kong & Japan). There tends to be at least some loose correlation between GDP and living costs (hotels etc).

Of course, considering the high end hotels Fountainhall will use, perhaps the cost gap narrows?

[Guest fountainhall]

Woudln't Taiwan be quite expensive for people from many parts of Asia? That might put a cap on visitor numbers.

I doubt it, certainly as far as gay tourists from places like Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore are concerned. The problem is more that if you don't know any Taiwan guys, Taipei and other cities can be quite difficult at first because the guys tend to go out in groups. So you'll see lots of 'groups' in the bars, but individuals are usually reluctant to break away from their groups. So cruising whilst bar-hopping can be frustrating, as you tend to end up at the bar admiring lots of guys who won't come over for a drink. The key is to get to know someone first - perhaps through fridae or gayromeo or even one of the saunas - and let him introduce you to the nightlife.

 

But as I said in my earlier post, so far not many other Asian gays travel to Taipei. At least that is my experience and that of my Taiwanese friends.

 

considering the high end hotels Fountainhall will use, perhaps the cost gap narrows?

I'll choose to overlook that There are plenty of relatively cheap hotels in Taipei and it's easy and cheap to get around.

[Guest Motel69]

Hmm, it would seem someone else has noticed the deterioration of Soi 4 -- and has blurbed about it in Stickman's latest column:

 

http://tinyurl.com/dxpsejd

 

You have to scroll down quite a way to get to the complaint, so I'll copy and paste it here:

 

"Dirty soi 4!

 

You are regularly in Soi 4, and may not notice it as much, but the first 100 metres is simply disgusting, Nana Plaza side to the entrance to the Plaza is the pits. I like street food and vendors, but it really is a joke along there. Just to get down the soi, I have also seen the entrance physically blocked with bikes, so you can't even get in. It can only change for the better."

 

By the way, this week's column is really good. It begins with a photo essay of a Bangkok recovering from the flood, and every photo is accompanied by a touching, cute or funny anecdote. After the photo essay and readers' rants, Stick gives us the usual morsels of Bangkok information an observations, several of which either made me laugh out loud or think much more deeply than I'm accustomed to on a Sunday night. Do yourself a favor and click on the link above.

[Guest fountainhall]

it would seem someone else has noticed the deterioration of Soi 4

I was in Soi 4 last night for over 5 hours from around 8:00 pm - the first time I have spent even half that time there for well over 5 years.

 

It would be hard to estimate the average age of the customers, but it was certainly way below the grey hair crowd Motel699 remembers from his last visit 7 years ago. Balcony Bar also had at least 8 straight couples dining outside between 8:00 and 10:30. I guess they were in their late 20s/30s - certainly no older than 40. The restaurants (yes, there are two Spanish restaurants there now as well as the longer-established ones) were doing good business, as were the other bars - which are not just just Balcony and Telephone.

 

Granted you are not walking in to a posh neighbourhood, but for many I think that is part of Soi 4's charm. Clearly a great many like it as it is. Others, like you and Stickman (of whom I have never heard a thing before) do not. So I suggest you enjoy your "fun and peace" in Taipei (as I always do on my many regular visits), and please don't waste your time on further rants against upper Silom.

[Rogie]

You are regularly in Soi 4, and may not notice it as much, but the first 100 metres is simply disgusting, Nana Plaza side to the entrance to the Plaza is the pits. I like street food and vendors, but it really is a joke along there. Just to get down the soi, I have also seen the entrance physically blocked with bikes, so you can't even get in. It can only change for the better."

I do not have my Bangkok city map to hand so cannot be definite, but I think we are getting our Soi 4's confused. The one Stickman is sticking the knife into is the one around Nana Plaza, full name Sukhumvit Soi 4.

 

Some of the photos are very good, so thank you Motel 69 for that link. I liked the one showing some of the items on sale at the Buddhist temple supplies store as I have seen these very realistic monks at one of the Pattaya tourist attractions and became quite fascinated by them!

[Guest]

You are regularly in Soi 4, and may not notice it as much, but the first 100 metres is simply disgusting, Nana Plaza side to the entrance to the Plaza is the pits.

 

Quoting a totally different part of town as evidence is not the way to credibly win an argument. This is about 2km away. It may explain why no one else is on the same wavelength.

 

Which part of the city do you intend to refer to?

[Guest Motel69]

Quoting a totally different part of town as evidence is not the way to credibly win an argument. This is about 2km away. It may explain why no one else is on the same wavelength.

 

Which part of the city do you intend to refer to?

 

My bad. For some reason, I was thinking Thaniya when my eyes saw Nana.

[Guest Motel69]

I was in Soi 4 last night for over 5 hours from around 8:00 pm - the first time I have spent even half that time there for well over 5 years.

 

It would be hard to estimate the average age of the customers, but it was certainly way below the grey hair crowd Motel699 remembers from his last visit 7 years ago. Balcony Bar also had at least 8 straight couples dining outside between 8:00 and 10:30. I guess they were in their late 20s/30s - certainly no older than 40. The restaurants (yes, there are two Spanish restaurants there now as well as the longer-established ones) were doing good business, as were the other bars - which are not just just Balcony and Telephone.

 

Granted you are not walking in to a posh neighbourhood, but for many I think that is part of Soi 4's charm. Clearly a great many like it as it is. Others, like you and Stickman (of whom I have never heard a thing before) do not. So I suggest you enjoy your "fun and peace" in Taipei (as I always do on my many regular visits), and please don't waste your time on further rants against upper Silom.

 

 

OK. No more rants about upper Silom. But let's make a deal. No matter how much more this neighborhood deteriorates, please, please, please do not follow the crowds to the Chatuchak and RCA gay zones. I don't want all the gray-haired, obese, on-the-prowl and/or otherwise disgusting Silom regulars ruining these hip areas like they did Silom.

 

Best wishes,

 

Motel69

[Guest thaiworthy]

. . I don't want all the gray-haired, obese, on-the-prowl and/or otherwise disgusting Silom regulars ruining these hip areas like they did Silom.

If you are apologizing, I fail to see the sincerity.

[Guest fountainhall]

No matter how much more this neighborhood deteriorates, please, please, please do not follow the crowds to the Chatuchak and RCA gay zones. I don't want all the gray-haired, obese, on-the-prowl and/or otherwise disgusting Silom regulars ruining these hip areas like they did Silom.

Now you reveal your true colours. Frankly, I am confused as to whether we are really talking here about Silom Soi 4 or Nana Soi 4, about younger, trendy tourists in general or older gay men, and now you further complicate the discussion with references to Chatuchak and RCA! And we have never cleared up the issue about the man you claimed to be a manager of Balcony, a point which one of the present owners of Balcony totally disputes! Nor do you refer to the possibility that I might have been right in my suggestion that you were actually talking to a man from Roxy, a venue known to be teetering on the brink at the time.

 

Yet still you continue your rant against Soi 4 (Silom or Nana) being the exclusive preserve of gray-haired and bald elderly men. As others have mentioned and I stated in my last post, that was very far from the case two evenings ago. But then you are so set in your opinions that the 'facts' of today as reported by others do not count, presumably because they do not fit in to your premise based upon your experiences of the ‘history’ of 7 years ago.

 

What on earth does it matter to you anyway? And why on earth spend so much time on this issue? In your own words, you've also already crossed Bangkok off your list adding, in Post #30, "Goodbye Thailand"!

 

Let me make a suggestion. Why not make some positive and more specific comments about what is so good in Taipei on the Gay China, Taipei, Hong Kong & Macao Board, especially about the bars, clubs and other places that will be of interest to gay travellers - and how to locate them? How about some information of the parties you referred to - also in Post 30? How often they occur and how one finds out about them? As we know addresses are often quite hard to locate in Taipei. Years ago, the first time I visited Funky's, it took an hour of looking! Not even the concierge at the nearby Sheraton Hotel could tell me where it was!

 

But, no, you mention Luxy (which, let’s admit, is like comparing Shanghai with a small town in the USA, because Soi 4 is far too small to accommodate anything like it!) - and you then leave everyone hanging in the air, because it is clear not many posters visit Taiwan. You could have listed a website to give readers a flavour of the club. You didn't, so I will –

 

http://www.luxy-taipei.com

 

For those who have been in Singapore, Luxy is kind of like a smaller version of the very popular and long-established Zouk, a large club with lots of different areas. Indeed, you might have posted this site which gives more details of quite a number of Taipei gay venues –

 

http://www.gejszatravel.pl/zdjecia/travel%20teczowo/guides/taipei_guide01.pdf

 

I am sure comments such as these would have been much appreciated by many, especially those I have been trying to persuade for some time that Taipei can be a great gay destination. Maybe we’ll meet up there one day. My next trip is next month.

[Guest]

This thread is neither on topic, nor a reliable source of correct information.

Now we have discrimination against any old or obese tourists, who are deemed unwelcome in Silom.

 

All very ungrateful, given the original post was helpfully drawing members attention to bargains that may be had in the Silom Complex.

 

Perhaps we might like to get back on topic, in line with message centre policies?

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps we might like to get back on topic, in line with message centre policies?

I actually thought the discussion was relatively on topic, as it discussed one poster's suggestion that not just Silom Complex required a make-over but the entire top part of Silom - even though there were factual errors and it also veered very oddly into Soi Nana territory. Notwithstanding, the thread has drawn a lot of readers.

 

I'd like to suggest, though, that the discussion re Taipei venues be reposted in the China etc. section (if that's possible), as these could continue to be of some interest to readers. It would certainly have been helpful if Motel69 had given additional information about Luxy (which he mentioned) and others (which he did not), given his stated preference for Taipei's gay venues to those in a certain part of Bangkok.

 

Back to Silom Complex, though. I was there today. Many shops have 20% - 50% discounts, with some clothes shops now offering up to 70%.

[Guest]

I'd like to suggest, though, that the discussion re Taipei venues be reposted in the China etc. section (if that's possible), as these could continue to be of some interest to readers.

The facility to do that exists, but I've never quite managed to achieve this.

[Guest fountainhall]

Sorry z909. I had completely forgotten that I had written a short post including the relevant info in the Gay China etc. section!

[pong]

Can anyone tell me about the new mall "Terminal21" at Asoke? Why is it named that? What kind of shops, restaurants, places worth seeing, anything interesting?

only seeing this now. Yes, have been, it has direct access to both MRT and BTS, so its just a 8 min ride from that holy Silom-enclavebubble. At least 5 gay m2m massageshops in the neighborhood-so you could also go for some change in that. Its hyped as a designer (and it is-like they do in Las Vegas the mediterraen theme re-invented lookalike) and indeed has a fair lot of independent small designer (mainly lady clothes) shops-as overpriced as any self respecting Thai designer cannot sell for too cheap. As such it looks far better/inviting/interesting as that icycold and dreary Paragon to me. The usual multi chains as in about any Thai/BKK complex in the basement and it apparently did succeed in catching on the BKKs hi-so young crowd-did not note yet what they have left for it-maybe some TongLor venue.I always wonder what the sehlf-life of some ''brand new-come and see'' new BKK/Thai shopping complex-or in fact about any building is-they tend to start to fall apart in pieces or serious neglect in 3-4 years with all new venues coming up. What most of you also do not know is th sorry state of many suburban shopping complexes so proudly opened just a few yrs ago. Several of the Carrefours overthere were like ruins when they went over to BigC-even inside the shops they seemed to have left any desire to sell anything.

[Guest fountainhall]

it looks far better/inviting/interesting as that icycold and dreary Paragon to me

Hallelujah! Someone else who dislikes Paragon! Apart from some appealing eye candy and the iMax theatre, that boring mall is over-priced and over-loud (I'd love to know the decibel levels on the various floors).

[Guest snapshot]

Got to say... I like most of the comments Motel69 has made! I still think Bangkok's an awesome destination though. Won't be saying goodbye to it anytime soon.

 

Can anyone tell me about the new mall "Terminal21" at Asoke? Why is it named that? What kind of shops, restaurants, places worth seeing, anything interesting?

Yes... It's called Terminal21 because the mall is designed with an airport theme. You'll see what I mean when you get there. Pretty cool.

 

Definitely worth a visit... I loved it. The highlight is level 2 (I think) where you get a heap of local designers selling some cool male fashion. I added around 30% more weight to my luggage here.

[pong]

Hallelujah! Someone else who dislikes Paragon! Apart from some appealing eye candy and the iMax theatre, that boring mall is over-priced and over-loud (I'd love to know the decibel levels on the various floors).

Maybe we have a more common taste as you ever imagined? After all we found to like the same weekly mag-though I have not found any recent issue since I came back here last week.