Sign of the Times

[lexusgs]

I enjoy aviation stories. Thought this was an interesting article.

 

http://www.key.aero/view_news.asp?ID=4414&thisSection=military

[Rogie]

Thought this was an interesting article.

It certainly is!

 

But also very sad. The Harrier Jump Jet was something of an icon in Britain along with Concorde, the Aston Martin DB6 and the Beatles.

 

The British armed forces are facing severe cutbacks and there's plenty bad news where this one came from.

 

 

[KhorTose]

It certainly is!

But also very sad. The Harrier Jump Jet was something of an icon in Britain along with Concorde, the Aston Martin DB6 and the Beatles.

The British armed forces are facing severe cutbacks and there's plenty bad news where this one came from.

 

The British did themselves proud with this design. One of the few planes developed by another nation that our armed forces had to have. The commandant of the Marines insisted on having this plane for his air support and McDonald Douglas bought the rights to make it. What is sad for Britain is good news for America as we still have plans for this plane to at least 2025, and we are getting these jets for pennies on the dollar.

[Guest]

The British armed forces are facing severe cutbacks and there's plenty bad news where this one came from.

 

Very short sighted cutbacks too. Defence spending secures our safety and there's usually at least one war a century in Europe.

The other benefit is a strong arms industry can contribute to reducing our balance of trade deficit.

[ChristianPFC]

But also very sad. The Harrier Jump Jet was something of an icon in Britain along with Concorde, the Aston Martin DB6 and the Beatles.

The Concorde is half French, but I agree that it is unique amongst civilian aircrafts and looks beautiful. I regret that she is not in operation any more.

 

The British did themselves proud with this design.

I wouldn't call it design. The Harrier is as ugly as sin, totally misshapen. But she's designed to fly, not to be beautiful. I saw her on the Berlin-Schönefeld airshow (maybe 2006?), she can really fly backwards.

 

A beautiful British aircraft it the Avro Vulcan (a bomber). I saw the flight of the only airworthy copy on the Farnborough airshow (I think 2008 or 2009).

 

[Guest fountainhall]

The Concorde is half French, but I agree that it is unique amongst civilian aircrafts and looks beautiful. I regret that she is not in operation any more.

As do I. I can remember being riveted to the TV screen on the final day. Three BA Concordes coming in to land, one after another, at Heathrow - the last scheduled flight from JFK plus two charters. An amazing sight! Strangely, I have a DVD titled Concorde: The Farewell, but there is no shot of those three in the air close to Heathrow.

 

As I said in a much, much earlier thread, I took the Concorde just once in the mid-90s when I was offered a free upgrade! The pampering before and after were wonderful - access to the aircraft direct from the special lounge, a guarantee of your bag being on the belt no later than 15 minutes after reaching the gate and a limo waiting to take you to your hotel - and the on-board food and wines were pretty good, although probably no better than today's first class, I guess. When the plane had cleared UK airspace and the afterburners were engaged, there was absolutely no impression of increased speed. The only way you could tell was from the speed counter at the front of the cabin.

 

Those narrow 4-abreast seats with not much recline were just barely comfortable, though. My one disappointment was that, despite being in window seat 3A, I just could not make out the curvature of the earth! Probably a result of too much champagne and excellent claret by the time I bothered to check

[Guest]

The Vulcan & Concorde are 2 iconic aircraft, with a very distinctive appearance.

 

I fondly remember Vulcans flying overhead on training runs, back in the day when they were operational.

[kokopelli]

 

Those narrow 4-abreast seats with not much recline were just barely comfortable, though.

 

I recently toured a Concorde at the Boeing Museum in Seattle, Washington,USA and thought a ride in Business Class in a 747 would be much more relaxing and enjoyable then in those Concorde seats.

[KhorTose]

I recently toured a Concorde at the Boeing Museum in Seattle, Washington,USA and thought a ride in Business Class in a 747 would be much more relaxing and enjoyable then in those Concorde seats.

 

Been there and know what you mean. Small and cramped. However, check out the bathroom where many who flew did so to join the Mach 2 club. By the way, because of the short duration of the flight, you did have to be fast.

[Guest]

I recently toured a Concorde at the Boeing Museum in Seattle, Washington,USA and thought a ride in Business Class in a 747 would be much more relaxing and enjoyable then in those Concorde seats.

 

I was going to argue the case for much reduced journey times, but it seems Concorde does not have the range to fly London to Bangkok.

 

However, the over 50% reduction in journey times must offset the compromise in seat shape.

[Guest fountainhall]

I was going to argue the case for much reduced journey times, but it seems Concorde does not have the range to fly London to Bangkok.

The plane was designed in the late 1950s only for the Atlantic route, primarily London/New York where it halved the flight times of subsonic carriers - around 3 /12 hours westwards and 3 hours eastwards. Speed essentially sold the tickets to top business people for whom time equalled money - not luxury and comfort.

 

BA and Singapore Airlines did run a London/Singapore service via Bahrain in 1977 with BA livery on one side and SIA on the other! However, thanks to the Malaysian government complaining about the noise and the Indian government complaining about the sonic booms, after just 3 flights the Bahrain/Singapore sector had to be flown subsonic. The route died after about 3 years.

 

At that time, the late 1970s, even subsonic flights from Europe to Asia had only first or economy class, and still had make one or two stops en route, because the 747 was originally also designed only for the Atlantic route. In 1979, I remember Air France's 747 Hong Kong flights had 3 stops - Dubai, Bombay or Delhi, and then Bangkok. Eventually, modified 747s with extra fuel tanks and about 30% less seats did the Europe/Asia runs with no stops, until the 747-400 – the “trans-Pacific” jumbo – was introduced. If Concorde had been designed with larger fuel tanks and had been able to fly Tokyo/New York or even Tokyo/LA, almost certainly far more aircraft would have been sold.

 

Even though Concorde had quite a few years operating life remaining, there’s an interesting theory that BA and Air France ‘killed’ it in order to divert the traffic to their new 747-400 business and first class products. BA’s first class ‘cabins’ and flat bed business class seat were unveiled around 2000. Concorde ceased service in 2003.

 

Yet, it must surely have been another commercial decision that did it for the aircraft. When Concorde was designed, oil was around US$2 per barrel. When it entered service, it was nearer $4, thanks to the founding of OPEC and its oil embargo. It was quickly to jump to $12 by the end of that year. In an age when $100 oil seems almost natural and private jets are increasingly used by the rich and famous, Concorde could never have survived.

 

Pity, for it was the most beautiful flying machine!

[Rogie]

Although I mentioned the Aston Martin DB6 earlier, thinking about it later the Jaguar E-type would probably have been a better choice if I had to choose just one.

 

Heritage award for Jaguar's iconic E-type and Vulcan bomber

 

THE Jaguar E-type has been inducted into the British engineering hall of fame.

The Coventry design and built classic car, which Enzo Ferrari called 'the most beautiful car ever made', joins the world's first railway locomotive, the Vulcan Bomber and Bletchley Park's Bombe code-breaking machine on the list of 69 winners of an Engineering Heritage Award.

But it is become the first and only car to be given a Heritage Award, which celebrates Britain's greatest engineering feats, from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers.

The E-type was most advanced sports car in the world upon its release in 1961 and over the intervening 50 years has became one of the most enduring symbols of the swinging 60s, with celebrities from Tony Curtis to Brigitte Bardot among its 72,000 owners.

 

It could reach speeds of up to 150mph – unrivalled for a car on sale to the general public – and it also pioneered breakthrough engineering technology later adopted by Formula One.

 

http://www.coventryo....uk/2011/11/28/

 

Apologies: My original link doesn't seem to be working. The E-type article is halfway down the main page on the left hand side.

[Guest]

Yet, it must surely have been another commercial decision that did it for the aircraft. When Concorde was designed, oil was around US$2 per barrel. When it entered service, it was nearer $4, thanks to the founding of OPEC and its oil embargo. It was quickly to jump to $12 by the end of that year. In an age when $100 oil seems almost natural and private jets are increasingly used by the rich and famous, Concorde could never have survived.

 

We're kind of lucky to be living in an era where subsonic flight is affordable & we can do long haul trips to Thailand.

Now if we had 10 times the global oil reserves & an environment that could take it, perhaps supersonic travel would have developed to the point where we could fly from London to Bangkok in 5 hours.

Now that could have meant long weekend trips to Thailand.

In the real world, I'll settle for flights remaining affordable for the remainder of my life.