History

[kokopelli]

Christian's post illustrates that what is iconic to an educated American is not iconic to a European or perhaps any other nationality and vice-versa.

 

However I think the Coke Logo is well known worldwide.

 

The "explosion" is of a thermonulear weapon/H-Bomb in the Pacific Ocean. I do agree that the photo of the A bomb over Hiroshima is even more iconic.

 

Here is another suggestion but not sure if this is known to many other nationalities.

[Guest thaiworthy]

No one has mentioned this perhaps because of its ghastly nature. Is the swastika iconic? It certainly was in Nazi Germany. But now it is an obviously unpopular one.

 

Is popularity a component that contributes to a symbol that makes it iconic?

 

What is the definition of "iconic?" Is iconic in some way determined by usage or comparison? Is a swastika more or less iconic when compared to its symbolic antithesis-- say, a cross?

 

Frankly, this damn thing gives me chills every time I see it.

 

[Rogie]

What is the definition of "iconic?" Is iconic in some way determined by usage or comparison? Is it more or less iconic when compared to its symbolic antithesis-- say, a cross?

 

Iconic is derived from icon which was an image, figure or representation; often a portrait. I would say the word has broadened out to mean something which is instantly recognisable to most people. I think to strictly adhere to the original meaning the iconic object should be of a person or people, so in Thaiworthy's example a representation of Christ would be an icon, but the cross would not. That's just how I read the situation, others my disagree. As Koko has mentioned I agree it's important to specify what the audience is.

[Guest thaiworthy]

That denotation is correct, Rogie, but I was looking for a deeper meaning. Is an offensive icon like a Nazi swastika deserve less merit in historical reference because of what it stands for? The swastika is banned in Germany. A 2005 proposal by Germany to ban the swastika in all of the European Union was unsuccessful. Using this icon as an avatar on some boards will result in getting you banned.

[Rogie]

Ah, you confused me! I quoted from your post but by the looks of it you altered it slightly by specifying the swastika. That's why I didn't answer your question in the way you wanted!

 

Yes, popularity should be a factor, but I cannot answer your question as to whether the swastika should receive less recognition owing to its notoriety or association with the nazis. That is for others to decide!

 

Thaiworthy, there was some discussion about the 'swastika' in the Good and Evil thread. Here's the link - see posts numbers 36 - 40.

 

http://www.gaythaila...__20#entry53050

[kokopelli]

For you Thaiworthy; everything must be viewed in context.

[kokopelli]

While on the topic of iconic images, here is another Coca Cola with the iconic bottle. Can any of our lucky members spot the second iconic image?

[Rogie]

Ok I'll bite as they say.

 

It must be quite an old ad as it refers to 'cork' rather than 'cap'. I put that down to American vernacular and assume cork = (metal) cap.

 

Righty-O, I'll try latching on to the word 'LUCKY' - Koko drops a hint that's the 'second iconic image' but for the life of me I don't know why.

[Guest fountainhall]

Iconic is derived from icon which was an image, figure or representation; often a portrait.

 

I always thought it was slightly more than that, originally referring specifically to a religious representation - often of a saint or some other image worthy of religious devotion. Hence its use in the Eastern Orthodox Christian church and from there to the Russian Orthodox. Behind the altar there is a wall of icons - the inconostasis. One of the finest is in St. Mark's Basilica in Venice. Here's one from my trip to Moscow last year.

 

 

From the religious, it then developed into its present meaning encompassing any object that immediately inspires universal understanding.

 

I wonder what would be regarded as the most famous icon of today - i.e. one understood by almost everyone on the planet? Could it be this?

 

Photo from NASA

[KhorTose]

I thought the 5 cents was the second iconic image as it kept that price for over thirty years.

[Guest thaiworthy]

I always thought it was slightly more than that, originally referring specifically to a religious representation - often of a saint or some other image worthy of religious devotion.

 

Ah ha! This is exactly the point I was trying to make. If some are more worthy or more meaningful as in positive images, then others are less worthy by virtue of being demonized, as in negative images. Only Fountainhall said it better, as usual.

 

 

I thought the 5 cents was the second iconic image as it kept that price for over thirty years.

 

I was going to say that, too. But I did not know it had held that price for so long. Thank you, KT. These days I doubt any price could be maintained for 30 months much less 30 years. Truly the "pause" (price) that refreshes.

[kokopelli]

It seems no one is going to be lucky and find that other iconic image! It is a swastika which at one time was considered lucky. You will even see the word "lucky" on the previous image of US flag and the swastika. There is a row of tiny swastikas just above the word Lucky on the coke ad. The link below has a clearer image.

 

http://www.sharenator.com/All_the_world_loved_Swastika_before_WWII/#/coca_cola_poster_with_swastika_All_the_world_loved_Swastika_before_WWII-2.html

[Guest fountainhall]

There is a row of tiny swastikas just above the word Lucky

 

I thought they were asterisks! Time to get my eyes tested, I guess.

[Rogie]

5 cents for 30 years. I remember they used to say 'Still 5 cents' so as KT mentioned the price alone was somewhat iconic. They did a similar thing in kid's comics. My favourites were Dell and Classics Illustrated. The price of the Dell comics was 'Still 10 cents'

 

Now I'm almost in tears over these old signs and the iconic price of a bottle of Coca Cola.

 

And that flag Koko flew in post #31

 

May our glorious flag and this lucky star

Guide you and keep you wherever you are

 

That makes me wish I had been an American. You Americans really do sentimentality well, I'll give you that.

 

My parents have a collection of Norman Rockwell plates - the sort you hang on the wall. I love 'em!

 

By the way please don't think I am being facetious, I am deadly serious. I think my mood of nostalgia is affected by the state of the world today. It ain't lookin' good from where I sit.

[Rogie]

[Guest thaiworthy]

That makes me wish I had been an American.

 

Rogie, from now on I shall refer to you as Sir Yankee Doodle. The lyrics are somewhat iconic for America as is apple pie.

 

Yankee Doodle went to town

A-riding on a pony,

Stuck a feather in his cap

And called it macaroni.

 

Chorus:

 

Yankee Doodle keep it up,

Yankee Doodle dandy,

Mind the music and the step,

And with the girls be handy.

 

Father and I went down to camp,

Along with Captain Gooding,

And there we saw the men and boys

As thick as hasty pudding.

 

Chorus

 

There was Captain Washington,

Upon a slapping stallion,

Giving orders to his men-

I guess there were a million.

 

Chorus

 

The pony is named Macaroni and I take feather in his cap as some sort of accomplishment. "Thick as hasty pudding," oddly enough I suspect is more British than American and has survived as such only for the sake of the song. I have never gone to McDonald's and ordered hasty pudding, not even from the value menu.

 

As for slapping stallion and giving orders to his men, I'll leave that to the imagination.

[ChristianPFC]

Recently, someone mentioned the Titanic exhibition and was surprised that Thais didn't know about the story (?). The sinking of the Titanic is iconic.

 

I had a strange encounter. I was chatting on camfrog in Thai and eating a carrot, so my Thai friend asked me (in jest) if I was a rabbit. They have rabbits in Thailand, but carrots are imported. So how do Thai boys know the connection between rabbits and carrots? Roger Rabbit? I have never seen a rabbit eating a carrot, but I know the joke "Eat carrots, they are good for your eyes. Or have you ever seen a rabbit with glasses?"

 

The test if something is iconic is to go to a village in Esaan and as the people who live there if they recognize it!

[kokopelli]

Bugs Bunny! Didn't you watch Saturday morning cartoons on TV when you were a kid? What's up doc!

[Guest fountainhall]

I was chatting on camfrog in Thai and eating a carrot

 

There's another question here. How were you eating it? Merely crunching and chewing? Or perhaps, given you were on camfrog, slowly and lasciviously sliding your lips over it repeatedly before taking a bite?

 

[Rogie]

My usual method for eating a carrot involves absolutely no sliding of the lips, merely crunching followed by chewing with swallowing bringing up the rear.

 

I regard tackling a carrot bugs bunny style a bit coarse. My tender sensibilities require me to cut the carrot up into thin wedges, followed by dipping each piece into a pot of something moist but firm, taramasalata if I am feeling lascivious or the more mundane humous if my mind is on other things.

[ChristianPFC]

I'm not sure if I ever saw a Bugs Bunny cartoon. But I know the character.

 

I was eating the carrot without any sexual innuendo.