Guest fountainhall Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Following on from recent posts in the topic The Board Quote
Rogie Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 The one I can’t work out is E=mc² (well, I know I can’t work the theory out, but why is the equation an icon? Beats me!) I'm mystified too! Here is Kemp's explanation: According to Kemp, Albert Einstein's mathematical equation has become "an icon of science and famed as a visual image", adding "it has come to be used by people who have no clue as to what it means". Mariah Carey, who named her 2008 album after the equation, happily admitted having no understanding of the theory of relativity - but the equation endures, almost as a shorthand for Einstein's genius. I think that gives us a clue about how people in general regard this equation. A sort of perverse thrill at the sheer incomprehensibility of it. I was lucky enough to see Jeff Forshaw giving a talk in my local pub recently. "So what" you might say "who he?". Well he's written a book with Brian Cox called Why does E = mc2? (I'm not clever like Fountainhall, can't figure out how to do a superscript, so not much hope for me!). There was a good review (see link at bottom of page) in the Guardian. Here is part of it: Getting to grips with Einstein's famous equation can be a bit of an assault course for the novice, but, says Alok Jha, the reader is in supremely capable hands with Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw In the process of exposing the science, the authors do a good job of showing how the hard end of research works: abandon all assumptions and re-build everything from scratch. It's frustrating, it's terrifying and it's slow. Sometimes it is hugely confusing and counter-intuitive. But patience and persistence in the face of dearly held beliefs is exactly why scientists have made such a remarkable fist of understanding (and shaping) our modern world. It's well worth your while to gulp down any fears of maths and glimpse some of that remarkable achievement in action. That review was written about a year ago. I haven't read the book although I have been tempted to give it a go. That's kind of comforting to know it's hard, that we're not really expected to grasp all the maths. I wonder if part of it is the frustration we feel in that, whereas we don't expect recent advances in science - those at the cutting edge - to be understandable by the layman, we think we ought to be able to understand an equation that was formulated 100 years ago. After all we understand Galileo, and we understand the double helix, so why not Einstein? http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/oct/18/einstein-relativity-science-book-review Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 I'm not clever like Fountainhall, can't figure out how to do a superscript I'm not clever either! I just click, copy and paste!! Quote
ChristianPFC Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 I wonder that nothing relating to Hitler and the Second World War or Soviet Russia is in the list. 6. Che Guevara 7. Napalmed and Naked (this is the famous Vietnam War photo of the naked little girl fleeing a napalm attack) are minor incidents compared to Hitler and the Second World War or Soviet Russia. Just look at the recent outrage about the students in Chiang Mai in Nazi uniforms. But I can't think of any iconic picture of this time (maybe the Red Army rising their flag on the Reichstag - comparable to the picture from Iwo Jima, but the event was of much greater importance - Berlin versus a minor island in the Pacific). Now after reading the "Most read threads" let me add the picture of a man in a circle with four arms and legs by Leonardo da Vince and the Apple logo (apple with bite), if I remember correcly Apple was recently valued the most valuable brand? Quote
Guest Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 What an odd list. A mixture of christian imperialism, a couple of other outdated irrelevant items and some that might just merit inclusion on the list. The Coca Cola logo might still be recognisable, but the bottles are rarely seen in many parts of the world. The aluminium can is a more common container for storing the beverage. The Apple logo must come in ahead of the Coke bottle & I'm far from being an Apple fan, having never even considered buying one of their products (although had I been a wealthy child, an Apple II would have been purchased). As for Hitler connections, well how about the VW logo? Strangely the badge is so coveted, you still see VWs running around minus the logo on the front, as someone will have stolen it for their bedroom wall. Also, some football club badges might be more widely recognised as iconic images than the Mona Lisa. (Manchester United, Real Madrid, Barcelona) As for the heart, well I have no idea which version of this image would be chosen as the iconic one. Then there are other massive events, such has the end of the Iron Curtain, which have many photographs, but perhaps no single iconic photograph. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 6. Che Guevara 7. Napalmed and Naked (this is the famous Vietnam War photo of the naked little girl fleeing a napalm attack) are minor incidents compared to Hitler and the Second World War or Soviet Russia Taken on their own, I agree. However, I assume the author of the book is using them to illustrate far more than images of individuals. For decades Che Guevara was seen by young people all over the world as a symbol of the desire for freedom, liberation and revolution - virtually any revolution, and anyone who lived at that time knows how powerful these concepts of revolution were. The girl, I assume, is a symbol of the human misery that all wars bring, especially one as totally brutal and unnecessary as that in Vietnam. That photo could have been replaced with one of the concentration camps in World War II, the Killing Fields, the trenches in World War ! . . . and so on. He just chose the one with that little girl. As for the heart, well I have no idea which version of this image would be chosen as the iconic one. On the BBC page, you can click to see the specific images. The heart one is virtually this - - and I suppose if you take away "New York", that heart symbol probably is, as the author suggests, "as secure and universal in their iconic status as any cultural products can ever claim to be." But I totally agree with the comments about the Coca Cola bottle. It may have been "secure" for a long time - but now in 2011? Similarly the Lion. What an odd choice? The image he shows is the MGM logo, and I guess this is symbolic of the revolution in people's lives brought about by moving pictures and television. But is it nearly as recognisable now as, say, half a century ago? I think not. Quote
ChristianPFC Posted October 16, 2011 Posted October 16, 2011 VW or the end of the Iron Curtain? Both directly linked to the National Socialism and Hitler. I would go as far as to say that every political event after 1933 can be linked to these. Quote
Rogie Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 But I can't think of any iconic picture of this time (maybe the Red Army rising their flag on the Reichstag - comparable to the picture from Iwo Jima, but the event was of much greater importance - Berlin versus a minor island in the Pacific). I wasn't looking for it but after viewing some excellent photos of the flooding in Thailand on The Atlantic site I noticed this series on WW2 (see link at bottom). World War II: The Fall of Nazi Germany Picture #1 is I believe the one referred to above. Well worth reading the comments under each photo. Apparently the moment caught on camera was actually a re-enactment of an earlier flag-raising. Other well-known pictures are #12 showing Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin at Yalta, and #20 showing the ruins of Dresden following its total destruction. In view of the discussion on the 'Weather' thread on the main forum, #17 is interesting as it shows serious flooding as a result of the dikes being burst by the retreating Germans. The area is Kranenburg which was on the Holland-German border. Being familiar with the term the 'Siegfried Line' but not knowing what it was, #23 shows American troops pouring through a breach in its defences during the Allied advance. Finally, an intriguing one: #32 shows American and Soviet troops fraternising! _____________________________________________________ Main page: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/ Thailand floods: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/worst-flooding-in-decades-swamps-thailand/100168/ The Fall of Nazi Germany: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/world-war-ii-the-fall-of-nazi-germany/100166/ Quote
Rogie Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 . . .you can see that a small amount of mass (matter) equals a very large amount of energy. Sure looks like it! It was recently announced that the good scientists at a place called OPERA in Italy have measured a certain particle travelling faster than the speed of light. "Impossible!!" (preferably pronounced the French way which makes the person saying it sound so much more aghast) is the only sensible response. That's because the rule that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light lies at the root of dear old Einstein's theories. So, what's really happening? Yet another fascinating episode of Horizon on British TV attempted to tackle this issue. I found it pretty amazing, but do not pretend for a minute to have a fully lucid grasp of everything! Here is a brief summary as I recall it. A few years ago there was a supernova in a galaxy far away, 100,000 light years away, so as we all know what we saw than had taken 100,000 years to reach planet earth. One of the particles given out in massive quantities in a supernova is the neutrino. These have no mass (for the sake of argument) and are really really small. A good comparison is if we compare an atom (with its proton and neutron core - the nucleus - and electrons orbiting it) to the solar system then a neutron would be the size of a golf ball. The only way to detect a neutrino is if it hits the nucleus, as you can see not a common occurrence but because neutrinos are so numerous, it does happen. It was found that the neutrinos arrived on earth 4 years after the supernova became visible, neatly confirming existing scientific orthodoxy. The most recent experiments were conducted at OPERA in Italy. They arranged things so as to be able to receive a hearty blast of neutrinos coming from CERN in Geneva. To detect these neutrinos OPERA had built a lead wall as that's just about the most dense material possible in order that just a few neutrinos, about 20 a day, would collide with nuclei in that wall of lead. That's when it was found the neutrinos arrived in Italy about 60 nanoseconds faster than the light did. Uproar! Here is another account, much better than my layman's view, from Discover magazine: Faster-than-light travel discovered? Slow down, folks http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/09/22/faster-than-light-travel-discovered-slow-down-folks/ Quote
Guest thaiworthy Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 E=mc² is iconic because it is so elegant and simple that even someone with basic math should be able to understand its significance. E=Energy; m=mass; c=speed of light. If one considers that the speed of light is about 300,000 km/sec and if squared(times itself) = 90,000,000,000 you can see that a small amount of mass (matter) equals a very large amount of energy. I have a lovely equation for you as well, which is also E = mc2. E = Each and every, m = motorcycle, c = cell phone. The theory states that each and every Thai boy's motorcycle and/or cellphone that suddenly disappears in Thailand goes into a black hole somewhere in the Universe, never to be found again. You don't have to be Einstein to figure this one out, but it helps. ---------- Seriously, this is quite a departure from the topic at hand, but I'll go with it anyway. Thanks for posting about the article, Rogie-- it was an interesting read. I would love to see that Horizon episode, too-- but I'm not sure how I can do that without investing half a day on the web to find it, if it's there at all. The article ends with this statement: So don’t let your imagination run away with this just yet. This result will, in my opinion, probably turn out to be incorrect for some reasons dealing with measurement. Faster than light travel is still a dream, even though I wouldn’t say it’s impossible… just very, very, very, very unlikely. Maybe someday we’ll boldly go. But for now, I’m not betting my dilithium on it. I don't think this necessarily means we'll ever travel faster than the speed of light. But that's the influence teleplay fiction has on our culture. The way I see it, it means we might actually one day be able to see the wonders of the universe more or less in real time instead of 100,000 years later. Of course, that would be just as fantastic as speed of light travel. Wouldn't it all be wonderful, though? Of course I know I'm only dreaming. But I think we'd need to see this phenomenon on a larger scale (not just nanoseconds) before we could ever think of traveling in it. What do they say-- if you can dream it, you can do it? Quote
KhorTose Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 I hate to fault BBC, but I cannot believe this list. Christ is unknown in much of the world and I do question many of the other icons. I can think of one icon found in nearly every country in the world and it is not even mentioned. I give you the obelisk. Quote
Rogie Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 I hate to fault BBC, but I cannot believe this list. Christ is unknown in much of the world and I do question many of the other icons. In Martin Kemp's own words: "An iconic image is one that has achieved wholly exceptional levels of widespread recognisability and has come to carry a rich series of varied associations for very large numbers of people across time and cultures." You don't have to be Einstein to figure this one out, but it helps. Yes indeedy, those gadgets seem to disappear faster than I can say Jack Robinson - maybe if we include an iPhone or iPad or nice 2 baht necklace they'd go even faster than the speed of light and when I got in my time machine to go back in time to ask the great man himself what he thought about Thaiworthy's 'lovely equation' this was his reaction . . . Quote
kokopelli Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 Let's not forget Kokopelli when it comes to iconic images. He has been around much longer then Einstein, relatively speaking. Quote
Rogie Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 I like those. They're a cut above your average do not disturb signs. I wonder if there's a way to make your own similar signs to your own specification - some hotels and guest houses don't supply them so taking your own gets round that problem as well as giving you a bit of individuality. How about iconic sayings? Here's one, although I admit to not being familiar with it until I came across it: The late Steve Jobs famously described death as "very likely the single best invention of life . . . it clears out the old to make way for the new". Please please nobody mention the death and taxes quote, I hear that so often it's almost a cliché but maybe that well qualifies it for iconic status! Quote
Rogie Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Crikey! What was I doing last week not to have grasped the rather cheery news that the death of the Universe had been averted? Could those pesky neutrinos have sullied my faculties to that extent? The universe as we know it was saved today. The instrument of its salvation, and that of the very edifice of physics itself? A fiber-optic cable in a GPS receiver at the European Center for Particle Physics (CERN) near Geneva. The universe was first endangered back in September, when a group of CERN physicists fired a swarm of neutrinos — ghostly particles that don’t give a fig about objects in their path—through a mountain to a receiver beneath Italy’s Apennine Mountains, located 450 miles (724 km) away. Since the mountain might as well not have been there, the neutrinos should have moved at the speed of light the entire way — no slower, and definitely no faster, since, as Albert Einstein pointed out, nothing in the universe can do that. Today, the CERN team announced that the GPS system used to adjust the mechanism that timed the neutrinos’ journey had a loose fiber optic cable. When it was fixed — and its mistaken readings scrubbed from the data — the 60-nanosecond difference disappeared. So the old boy TIME chose as its Person of the Century back in 2000 was proven right again. Read more: http://newsfeed.time...y#ixzz1nbsoixxH Quote
Guest Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 The faster than the speed of light issue was always likely to be a fault. Quote
Rogie Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Looks like a breakthrough at CERN Scientists confident the Higgs Boson is for real Cern scientists reporting from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) have claimed the discovery of a new particle consistent with the Higgs boson. The particle has been the subject of a 45-year hunt to explain how matter attains its mass. Both of the Higgs boson-hunting experiments at the LHC see a level of certainty in their data worthy of a "discovery". More work will be needed to be certain that what they see is a Higgs, however. More technical stuff: The CMS team claimed they had seen a "bump" in their data corresponding to a particle weighing in at 125.3 gigaelectronvolts (GeV) - about 133 times heavier than the protons that lie at the heart of every atom. They claimed that by combining two data sets, they had attained a confidence level just at the "five-sigma" point - about a one-in-3.5 million chance that the signal they see would appear if there were no Higgs particle. (NB: 5 sigma is equivalent to tossing a coin and it coming down heads more than 20 times in a row). However, a full combination of the CMS data brings that number just back to 4.9 sigma - a one-in-two million chance. Prof Joe Incandela, spokesman for the CMS, was unequivocal: "The results are preliminary but the five-sigma signal at around 125 GeV we're seeing is dramatic. This is indeed a new particle," he told the Geneva meeting. Atlas results were even more promising, at a slightly higher mass: "We observe in our data clear signs of a new particle, at the level of five sigma, in the mass region around 126 GeV," said Dr Fabiola Gianotti, spokeswoman for the Atlas experiment at the LHC. Prof Rolf Heuer, director-general of Cern, commented: "As a layman I would now say I think we have it." A confirmation that this is the Higgs boson would be one of the biggest scientific discoveries of the century; the hunt for the Higgs has been compared by some physicists to the Apollo programme that reached the Moon in the 1960s. "We're reaching into the fabric of the Universe at a level we've never done before," said Prof Incandela. "We're on the frontier now, on the edge of a new exploration. This could be the only part of the story that's left, or we could open a whole new realm of discovery." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455 Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Higgs boson-hunting Sound more like a scene from a good ol' western movie to me Quote
Gaybutton Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I like their list and I agree with it, but theirs is not the only list. I have a few of my own. I don't know how iconic they are, but I'll bet most people will instantly recognize them: Quote
Rogie Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I can recognise or am familiar with all of those GB has posted - except the last one. The one with a baby in the foreground. It looks a bit scary, whatever it is that's happening. Here, to tie in with the Olympics I assume, is a modern take on Henery the Eighth . . . NB. deliberate mis-spelling as per the song: I'm Henery the Eighth, I Am (1910) by Fred Murray and R. P. Weston Quote
Gaybutton Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I can recognise or am familiar with all of those GB has posted - except the last one. The one with a baby in the foreground. It looks a bit scary, whatever it is that's happening. Bloody Saturday is the name of a black-and-white photograph that was published widely in September–October 1937 and in less than a month had been seen by more than 136 million viewers.Depicting a Chinese baby crying within the bombed-out ruins of Shanghai South Railway Station, the photograph became known as a cultural icon demonstrating Japanese wartime atrocities in China. Much more to the story can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Saturday_%28photograph%29 Quote
ChristianPFC Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I didn't know the Chinese-Japanese war picture from 1937, but I know this one (number 7 in the original post): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc http://www.facenfacts.com/NewsDetails/25925/napalm-girl-kim-phuc-photo-from-vietnam-war-turns-40.htm Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 It was nice to see a TV programme recently showing that the young girl in that photo is alive and well and living with her own family in the US. But she could easily have ended up as just one more statistic from a ghastly war. Another photo that helped turn the tide of public opinion and which is equally iconic, I suggest, is this one showing the summary execution of a Viet Cong soldier by a South Vietnamese General. What the photo does not tell, of course, is that the soldier had just killed 8 people. The photo apparently haunted the General till his death. Photo by Eddie Adams Quote
ChristianPFC Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Here Gaybutton pictures as far as I can place them: coke advertising Napoleon I (don't know) (john wayne ?) atom bomb test (after Hiroshima, somewhere in the south Pacific; I think Hiroshima is more iconic) Henry VIII King of England Gandhi (USA internal politics ?) Churchill (Chinese-Japanese war 1937, didn't know this one) Quote
