GayRomeo - Floods Now an Excuse for Scams

[Guest fountainhall]

Around 9:30pm yesterday evening, I had an unsolicited message on gayromeo from a member I have never chatted with before, but whose cute photos I recognise as having been posted under at least a couple of different names over a few years -

 

hi.. pls help me.. i will do anything to please u if u can give me a few hundred... as im leaving bangkok tomorrow my flight is 7.10am and now i have no cash with me at all as i got robbed lastnight. i just want some money to make it to the airport.

When I responded “nice try”, I received the following –

 

nice try? feel free to come meet me at the blooms talking to reception of how i was cover by blood and how many day i stay here and see if swollen eyes... thanks..

When I pointed out that the young man in the photo claimed to be Thai and lived in Bangkok, so why would he necessarily be going anywhere at 7:10 in the morning, I received this -

 

omg... listen... im going back home because of the flood and they need me ok? thats why i quit my job.. moving back.. and got mugged ... i dont know what else i can prove.. but i know what im doing.. im honest enough to prove to u but u r just sitting there judging me. have a fantastic life.

The whole brief episode was so ludicrous and so full of holes, I’m just amazed the guy even “tried” it on (he is one of those smaller guys who claims to be XL). This morning, unsurprisingly, I note he has blocked me!

[Gaybutton]

I would have replied to him with, "I know you feel. The same thing happened to me. I'm on Gay Romeo trying to find someone to help me with money too."

[Guest fountainhall]

I was indeed tempted to reply to the effect: "Why would I want to spend time with someone who will do 'anything' when they are covered in bruises and swollen eyes?" But I was too polite to rub it in!

[Guest]

But I was too polite to rub it in!

 

When someone asks me for money over the internet, I try to end the dialogue as soon as possible. Not even replying is my usual approach. Why should I waste time listening to their probably fraudulent tales of woe?

[TotallyOz]

Owning more than a few websites over the last 20 years, I am always amazed at how many people get taken in by these "scams" every day. I have had to effectively block all IP's from Nigeria on some of my sites as they are overly aggressive and cause so many issues. Of course, they then use proxy servers to access the sites, but it just makes it harder for them.

 

I would never send someone money that I met over the Internet. I am amazed people still do this.

 

I know of one boy who worked at Star Boys in Pattaya many years ago and is adorable and makes his entire living for at least 7 years doing this. He has 5-10 chat windows open at all time and he makes more money per month than any boy I know in the bar scene. So, apparently there are still many that keep falling for this.

[Guest fountainhall]

When someone asks me for money over the internet, I try to end the dialogue as soon as possible.

I normally do likewise, but I was interested to see how this dialogue would progress. I actually quite admired the guy for keeping the story going, even though I had made it clear I was not going to bite.

 

I would never send someone money that I met over the Internet.

Neither would I - ever! But as you say, from reading various web forums, there are quite a few who do, and then can't understand why they lost their cash.

 

Mind you, I have lent money to guys I have met many times, known and liked for months - sometimes purely as friends with no sex involved - only to find the money and the friends thereafter disappear! I never had that happen when I lived in Hong Kong or Japan. But here in Thailand, only one guy has ever repaid me a loan he had requested. Is this a particularly Thai trait, I wonder?

[TotallyOz]

Is this a particularly Thai trait, I wonder?

 

Yes. They do it to farangs all the time but they also do it to other Thais if they view they have money. I can't count the number of times one of my BF's has lent money for rent, motorbike payments, etc to a friend. I also can't think of too many boys that repaid these debts. Thais seem to be willing to forgo a friendship over a few thousand baht.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

Not just Thai working guys, I am afraid. The mentality is prevalent in Malaysia and Singapore - and even among the comfortably off, too. It's as if such people feel that just because you earn - or have - more than they do, you almost owe it to them to "loan" them money and not expect any repayment, let alone ask for it.

[Guest fountainhall]

The mentality is prevalent in Malaysia and Singapore - and even among the comfortably off, too.

And do these guys then disappear from your life, the same as Thai guys? I'm not talking about 'working' boys here, merely guys you have regarded as friends over a period of time.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

They don't go away. They hang around acting like it never happened - and quickly changing the subject if you bring it up. Then they act aggrieved if you persist, and blame you for being too pushy. And then they tell everyone that's the reason why they are not going to pay back one cent.

 

The most horrible part is that most of the people they tell that to, actually believe they're perfectly justified.

[Guest]

The obvious solution is not to lend money to anyone in Thailand or Malaysia unless it's to a very close friend & you view the "loan" as a gift.

 

All the looser acquaintances can learn to live within their means.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

The obvious solution is not to lend money to anyone in Thailand or Malaysia unless it's to a very close friend & you view the "loan" as a gift.

 

All the looser acquaintances can learn to live within their means.

 

I can't speak for Thailand, but in Malaysia the custom is to solicit loans first mainly from people you already know well. Or relatives perceived to be rich (never mind whether it's true or not). Banks are often the last choice after loansharks, even, because banks require some form of guarantee - or a guarantor.

 

That's another thing you should never do in Malaysia. Sign on as guarantor for anyone for any reason. There are enough horror stories in the papers about what happens when the borrower defaults and disappears.

 

I know I am not painting a nice picture of my own country in this thread and I am truly sorry about that, but I am speaking from personal experience, for what that's worth.

[KhorTose]

Yes, but why? I too have seen this Thai (and apparently Malaysian) lack of understanding about the need to pay back a loan to a friend, be the loaner Thai or Farang. However, this tendency is so different then what you see in the West, and most of the rest of Asia that I have to wonder why it exists.

Xian you suggest that their thinking is that, if you have more money then them it is like they believe you owe them and it is okay not to pay you back, but I can't quite seem to buy that explanation. Can you offer another? Anybody?

[Guest fountainhall]

I can't quite seem to buy that explanation. Can you offer another? Anybody?

I've thought about this a great deal, and simply cannot explain it! I wonder sometimes if it is partly an ethnic trait due to certain historical reasons. For example, in Hong Kong, even the very poor Chinese tend to admire, not envy, those who have made it rich. The view seems to be, "if he was able to do it, then so can I." So a loan is sought largely as a means of doing something that will help them up the economic ladder, and repayment is an obligation.

 

I suspect this is true with most Chinese communities around the region. Perhaps the reason is that most Chinese outside mainland China were at one time economic migrants, and so all started off at a very basic economic level. In such circumstances, food on the table, a roof over one's head and education for the children become the over-riding priorities. And having emigrated to better their lives, they were never afraid to work very hard.

 

So, if expecting and then not repaying loans is a trait more often found in Thais and Malays, is that a result of some in-bred historical envy of the Chinese (and, by extension, all foreigners) who eventually began to dominate business and commercial life in those countries?

 

At its most crude, that could develop into a feeling of, "Well, they made it rich in our country, so they owe us!"

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I've thought about this a great deal, and simply cannot explain it! I wonder sometimes if it is partly an ethnic trait due to certain historical reasons...So, if expecting and then not repaying loans is a trait more often found in Thais and Malays, is that a result of some in-bred historical envy of the Chinese (and, by extension, all foreigners) who eventually began to dominate business and commercial life in those countries?

 

At its most crude, that could develop into a feeling of, "Well, they made it rich in our country, so they owe us!"

 

There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here. At NO time in any of my posts regarding this subject have I ever mentioned or implied or inferred or singled out Malays in any sense whatsoever. For the record, NONE of the people involved in my unpleasant financial experiences were Malays.

 

And I NEVER implied a thing about history or historical association with regard to the subject of this thread. I would never blame history for human failings, which are timeless.

 

I did say MALAYSIANS, who could be of Chinese, Indian, Malay, Portuguese, Iban, Kadazan, English, French, German, Japanese, Dusun, Aboriginal, Eurasian, Indonesian, Thai, Burmese or even Australian origins (and, probably, a lot more which I have not mentioned).

 

Just to make matters clear, there is a difference between the ethnic community and the name (and associated noun foms) of any country, e.g. England has English, British (as much a matter of class as racial or geographical origin, I believe), Scottish, Welsh, Saxon, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Indian, Pakistan, Chinese inhabitants and citizens, to mention a few.

[KhorTose]

Just to make matters clear, there is a difference between the ethnic community and the name (and associated noun foms) of any country

 

Xian, as an American I already know that Malaysian means a number of thing, just like, English, Chinese, and (or should I say, "especially") the word American. I am also very aware of the danger of stereotypes, and I do apologize if I misunderstood part of your post.

 

So, have you ever lent money to a Thai or have any of your friends? What are your experiences? Do you think Foutainhall is correct in that it may have something to do with the fact that foreigners seem to do better (do to hard work) then Thais. Almost every Farang I talk to and many of the message boards have often commented that it is okay to lend money to Thais, but only if you have the expectation of not getting it back. Also many of my friends, who are also into long term relationships, often hear from our BFs that they have loaned so and so money and did not get it back. I do mean often. What I am looking for is some type of understanding. I am not really trying to judge, but to understand. Especially since Fountainhall's explanation does not cover Thai to Thai loans. As a wise (not that old) Chinese Grandfather I was kind of hoping you might have some kind of insight. After all, you did contribute to this thread.

[Guest fountainhall]

At NO time in any of my posts regarding this subject have I ever mentioned or implied or inferred or singled out Malays in any sense whatsoever.

Sorry for the misunderstanding here, Xian. I certainly did not intend to be racist in any way or form - merely to give an explanation based on what I thought you had meant. I should add that it was also based on the experience of two friends (one British and his Chinese partner) who lived in Malaysia for a few years. But putting 2 and 2 together obviously made a lot more than 4 in this case! Mea culpa!

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

Actually, I have never loaned money to any Thai person, though I have made gifts of money to a few.

 

Once was to a youthful gentleman at Suriwong Hotel who was extremely worried about his rent. As I was leaving for home that afternoon, had just finished my good-bye confession at the Erawan Lord Brahman shrine (and was subsequently feeling particularly inclined to perform a final act of charity), and wonder of wonders! actually had a bit of money to spare, I just handed it over to him without bringing up the subject of repayment. Other than that, I'd never had the opportunity to "get to know him better." He just caught me at the most opportune moment, I guess.

 

Another time, a different gentleman of equally gentle years whom I'd met and befriended at Jupiter wrote to me asking for help with his mother's medical bill. As he did not mention a loan (thus implying repayment) I just sent him whatever I could afford at that particular moment, which wasn't all that much to be honest. I felt that I'd renumerated him insufficiently for his services when I was in Bangkok, anyway.

 

As for trying to analyse why some people (not all, I would be the first to proclaim) just don't repay or feel obligated to repay loans, I am afraid I can't - and won't - even attempt to try. I've been in circumstances where I've had to explain, hat in hand, why I couldn't repay my loans on time and I can understand how humiliating it must be for others to have to do the same. Perhaps, they chose a different course and preferred to avoid that embarassment.

 

But I confess, I have also met too many who simply and arrogantly declared that they didn't feel obligated to repay loans to well-off lenders because such people wouldn't feel the pinch if they didn't have the money in hand. I can only conjecture that this kind of unrepentant borrower must be lacking some sense of right and wrong - it wouldn't surprise me if they protested very loudy that they did, however.

[Rogie]

They hang around acting like it never happened - and quickly changing the subject if you bring it up. Then they act aggrieved if you persist, and blame you for being too pushy. And then they tell everyone that's the reason why they are not going to pay back one cent.

I can only conjecture that this kind of unrepentant borrower must be lacking some sense of right and wrong - it wouldn't surprise me if they protested very loudy that they did, however.

Yes, if I understand you correctly, they will most likely protest very loudly that they are in the right and therefore must know the difference between right and wrong!

 

Once was to a youthful gentleman at Suriwong Hotel who was extremely worried about his rent.

 

Another time, a different gentleman of equally gentle years whom I'd met and

befriended at Jupiter wrote to me asking for help with his mother's medical bill.

 

As far as I can see there are two sorts of requests, those for a genuine reason and those that are bogus. The two instances that Xian mentions may be either, we have no way of knowing. However as we all know, requests for money that turn out to be bogus often feature an ill member of the family. Why this is so I do not know, perhaps over a period of time Thais have learnt the situations that get a farang all knotted up inside so he feels duty bound to cough up. But that is where Forums such as this one serve as a counter, the farang talk among themselves just as much as Thais do.

[Guest]

If non-repayment of loans to wealthier friends has become common in Thailand, then perhaps that becomes the accepted "new normal". Therefore if "everyone else" doesn't pay back loans, then maybe people will be encouraged to follow suit.

 

The obvious solution to the problem is to never lend money to Thais, unless you intend to never get it back.

This should be easy to do with short term acquaintances, however I guess it may be more of a challenge when someone you know a little better claims he needs the money for a medical bill. After all, how do you determine if this is a real claim, considering asking would be bad form?

[Rogie]

how do you determine if this is a real claim, considering asking would be bad form?

Would it, though?

 

There are 3 ways to go about it:

1. Say no

2. Say ok, here's the money no questions asked (you're either gullible or rich)

3. Ask questions

 

I don't see why it is necessarily bad form to ask questions. It would depend on who is making the request - what kind of relationship you had with him - but provided you ask relevant questions in a sensitive open-minded way and evaluate his replies sensibly I would have thought it pretty much imperative to do that unless you decide to opt for either option 1 or 2 above. I would think that even if you feel or 'know' you can trust him (which might be what you are alluding to in a situation where your friend is well-known to you) that approach is a fair one. If nothing else it shows your concern as a caring friend.

[Guest alastairjp]

I am aware of a visitor to thailand that got close to a bar boy who was needing money for a stint in a hospital to 'dry out'

 

He paid the hospital direct.

 

I do not know for sure the boy went for treatment but the visitor left feeling he may have helped.

[Guest fountainhall]

as we all know, requests for money that turn out to be bogus often feature an ill member of the family

That was the case with one guy I had known for well over a year. I’d met him at a friend’s party and was told he was the nicest guy. Several months later, I started seeing him more often, having dinner quite regularly, chatting on the phone - an old fashioned 'dating' rather than sexual relationship. I even took him to Singapore to see Mamma Mia! and we had a great time!

 

A few weeks later, he asked me to go for a coffee, explained his mother in Chiang Mai had to have an eye operation and could he borrow a small amount of money (and it was 'small') which would be repaid from her insurance. I suppose I should have seen red lights flashing in front of my eyes, but I didn’t.

 

About three weeks later, he brought his sister, a nurse, with him for another Starbucks meeting. This time they were moving to a new room and could they borrow the key money. The sister told me the mother was doing well and they'd have the insurance money by the end of the month. So they'd repay that first, and then the key money in three monthly installments.

 

Had the sister not been there, I would have been much more reluctant. But I gave in. I liked the guy. Having known him for quite a long period of time, I felt I trusted him. That was the last I ever saw of him. The phone number changed almost immediately, emails weren't answered and then bounced back. I did call one of his friends, but was told he had moved (surprise!) and he hadn't seen him for a long time. What annoyed me most about the whole episode was not the money, but that I had lost someone whose company I'd enjoyed.

 

how do you determine if this is a real claim, considering asking would be bad form?

Like Rogie, I now don't believe it’s 'bad form'. One thing about Thai guys is they always want to know the cost of everything - from your rent or how much the condo cost, to what you paid for a hotel room, or even just a shirt. (In fact, this could be the subject for a new thread: why is it that all Thais feel it's perfectly OK to ask quite intimate financial questions?). So my mantra now is for anything medical, I will do the same: I want to know the exact cost and to see a written quote from a hospital.

 

The obvious solution to the problem is to never lend money to Thais, unless you intend to never get it back.

Bang on the money!! But if you don't lend to someone who is a friend - even with the mutually accepted pretense than it will be paid back - do you just say "OK, here's the cash as a gift?" I’ve often wondered what might have happened if I had just done that with my vanished friend. If so, how do you stop the floodgates from opening with lots more requests? Since you have to draw the line somewhere, does that probably mean the friend will disappear anyway in the longer term? Does is also mean that as long as a friendship involves merely coffees and dinners, it can develop on solid ground, but as soon as evidence of greater wealth becomes evident (e.g. nice condo or trip to Singapore), some mechanism trips and a greater cash input is not only sought, but expected?

 

I recall several posts by GB in which he recommended, when starting a relationship, making it very clear to the guy what the financial boundaries will be. I guess that probably also holds true when a longer-term friend starts asking for the inevitable loan.

[KhorTose]

If non-repayment of loans to wealthier friends has become common in Thailand, then perhaps that becomes the accepted "new normal". Therefore if "everyone else" doesn't pay back loans, then maybe people will be encouraged to follow suit.

 

The obvious solution to the problem is to never lend money to Thais, unless you intend to never get it back.

 

Hmmmm, morality usually is based on norms, so I like this answer. As to why this may be the norm, the poverty of this country can easily be cited. I also think Xian is correct, it must be very embarrassing for some to have to borrow and not be able to pay back. Talk about a loss of face.

 

Yes, the only and best solution is to just give or not give the money. I guess I would determine whether I would give the money by how truthful the request sounds.

[Guest fountainhall]

it must be very embarrassing for some to have to borrow and not be able to pay back. Talk about a loss of face.

But if the majority is doing it, how does it become a loss of face? I'd have thought they might even look at it as gaining face!

 

I guess I would determine whether I would give the money by how truthful the request sounds.

Which is what I did. I guessed wrong. I lost both the money and the friend!

 

In making comments on this issue, I am not seeking to make any moral judgements. Like Xian, and perhaps some others, I have more than once found myself with no option but to ask for loans when all other avenues had failed. In my case, they were provided by family members. By good fortune, I was able to repay them in time.