Weather

[firecat69]

Anyone currently in Bangkok tell me the states of the rain and possible floods in the Downtown area. Also what is currently happening in Pattaya.

 

I know Chiang Mai is a mess from friends who say downtown is under a couple of feet of water>

[Bob]

You don't want to go anywhere near the Ping River here in Chiangmai unless you're traveling in a boat. I'm told that the flooding problem here wasn't the rain here locally but that they removed some sluice gates from a dam north/northeast of Chiangmai (probably due to too much rain there).

[Guest fountainhall]

Friends have told me it has rained heavily in Bangkok in recent days, but today there was no evidence of any flooding in the Silom/Rama 4/Sathorn area. I was also near Ploenchit and Wittayu - again, no evidence of any flooding. Today was actually very sunny, with only light rain early in the evening.

[TotallyOz]

You see what happens, when I leave the gods are upset and the floods occur. I knew I should have stayed.

[Bob]

You see what happens, when I leave the gods are upset and the floods occur. I knew I should have stayed.

 

Perhaps the gods/buddhas here in Chiangmai are trying to tell you where not to eat for a while?

[Guest thaiworthy]

For a minute I thought that picture was taken in Amsterdam. Bob, are you keeping dry? It's raining at your hometown in the USA at the moment, too.

 

Michael, I highly suspect you enjoy the food at the restaurant featured in the photo. Have you tried their new McLobster sandwich?

[Rogie]

McLobster sandwich?

Now that'd be worth stopping off for in one of their places in Maine or one of the other maritime states or PEI or anywhere it's fresh straight off the boat.

 

McChien in an up-scale eatery in Korea or Vietnam ought to be a safe bet

[KhorTose]

More Chiang Mai flood pictures:

 

http://www.city-now.com/comment.php?cid=283311&lang=English&page=1#rank283311

[Guest fountainhall]

Today the sun is shining brightly out of a (nearly) clear blue sky in Bangkok. But I hear we may be in for more bad weather soon as a result of the typhoon over Vietnam.

[Bob]

But I hear we may be in for more bad weather soon as a result of the typhoon over Vietnam.

 

Just checked the tracking map and it looks like the typhoon will peter out over northern Laos. Unless it takes some weird southern turn, likely won't impact even northern Thailand (or at least I hope).

[Guest fountainhall]

The Bangkok Post has a front page story today reporting that most of the country's dams are now over capacity, with the nearest to Bangkok - the Pasat Jolasit Dam - now at 136% of capacity. PM Yinguck, however, believes the capital will be able to cope with the incoming floodwater. In the north, however, the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand's chief of hydropower generation in the Northeast said yesterday that "rainwater was filling six hydropower dams in the Northeast and they would have to accelerate their discharges to prevent the reservoirs from breaking."

 

Sanya Cheenimit, drainage director of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, said yesterday city workers were strictly controlling the water inflow from the Khlong Rangsit Prayoonsak Canal in Pathum Thani province north of Bangkok to the Khlong Prem Prachakorn Canal, which connects to the Chao Phraya River to prevent flooding in the capital.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/259142/dams-near-breaking-point

 

I am not sure when the annual high tides from the Gulf of Thailand are expected to start flooding upstream into the city area. Hopefully that will not occur until the present upcountry flooding has receded.

 

Map from the Bangkok Post

[Rogie]

"rainwater was filling six hydropower dams in the Northeast and they would have to accelerate their discharges to prevent the reservoirs from breaking."

 

Bhumibol Dam

 

One of the Seven Wonders of Thailand

 

Thailand's largest dam is located some 60 kilometres north of Tak city in Amphoe Sam Ngao, and dams the Mae Ping River. The extensive reservoir forms a picturesque lake that extends northwards to Chiang Mai's Hot districts.

 

http://www.7thaiwonders.com/bhumibol-dam.html

[Guest fountainhall]

Here's part of a headline from The Nation.

 

Some may have seen a different photo with the same caption in yesterday's edition. The reason for that is that my scan is of The Nation's front page on 19 October - 2010!

 

Every year it is exactly the same story. Everyone knows there will be excessive rains in the north and east from the monsoon and the tail-ends of fairly regular typhoons. Everyone knows that there will be flooding in Bangkok as these rains come down river and meet with the regular October high tides from the Gulf. Yet, no-one seems to do anything about it.

 

Every year it is a crisis. It's a crisis for those poor souls who lose their lives in the floods, for those who lose much of their livelihoods, and for those trying to do something about it at far too late a stage. Thailand is far from alone in this, but surely there has to be some way to channel the excess waters so that they do less harm and damage? Or is that a forlorn hope? Is the country just destined to go through these crises at this time every year? I'm just glad I don't live close by the Chao Phraya when there are sandbags everywhere.

[Bob]

Every year it is a crisis.

 

I totally sympathize with the frustration implied by your statement. The same thing, year after year (with mainly people without a whole lot of power being affected) and nothing seems to get done about it.

 

Chiangmai's recent floods were not caused by sudden or heavy rainfalls around here but because sluice gates were quickly removed from a dam north of here. Nothing has been stated in any of the papers as to why that occurred (maybe they had more rain northeast of here but I haven't read that anywhere).

 

Given they know (or ought to know) they're having this problem year after year - almost always starting in August - I simply don't understand why they don't start lowering all the dams beginning in the early part of the rainy season (early May)? And, while we're at it, why don't they build a water pipeline from the Chao Phraya to other locations (e.g., Pattaya) to kill two birds with one stone (lower the water level a little and take care of the ever-developing water shortage issue)?

 

But, while reading the paper edition of the Bangkok Post yesterday regarding the flooding around the central plains (and the expected further problems farther south), I had one of the best laughs in quite a while (equal perhaps to the laugh generated from the notion spouted in the Post 2-3 years back that Thailand wouldn't be affected by the melting of the artic poles as Thailand was "too far" from the poles). In any event - this is an absolutely true story - there was a statement from some government group that asked boat captains in the lower Chao Phraya to help the situation by using their propellors to help blow the water out into the sea! And it was stated that the government would reimburse the ship owners for the extra fuel used in performing this Einstein maneuver! Talk about blowing smoke up somebody's ass.....

[Guest fountainhall]

Here’s the idiotic comment noted by Bob –

 

Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi yesterday urged boat owners who live along the Chao Phraya River to use their boats to help propel water from the river into the sea.

 

He suggested the effort should be intensified in 10 days before the next high tide on Oct 17 and 18. The minister promised the government would pay for fuel of the boats. He suggested boat owners contact all government agencies to report information about their boats and seek the fuel payment.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/259907/more-flood-mayhem-on-the-way

 

Perhaps we should send the minister a history of English Kings, especially the tale of the early 11th century King Canute whose courtiers had claimed so great was he that he could command the waves to turn back. Canute then had them carry him on his throne to the seashore - with the inevitable consequences. How about plonking the minister just upstream of this flotilla of boats to prove his point?

 

More disaster photos in today’s media, though, including this one below taken by a helicopter from the Air Force Civil Affairs Department of a major road suddenly submerged in Ayutthaya. Traffic stretching 10 kilometers was halted.

 

Now parts of Bangkok have been hit as a result of water pumps breaking down. Might this be a case of lack of maintenance earlier the year?

 

In Bangkok, heavy rains in the northern part of the capital caused floods on Chaeng Watthana Road in front of the government complex, Vibhavadi Rangsit Road in front of Yakult Co and Ram Intra Road at Laksi roundabout from late on Wednesday night to early yesterday morning.

 

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said the floods on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road were as deep as 70cm because water pumps near the Bang Khen canal broke down.

 

City Hall was now concerned that Bangkok's eastern district would be hit by overflows from the North.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/260101/ayutthaya-disaster-worsens

 

And as reported in the Bangkok Post a couple of days ago, to prevent a baby boom helicopters have been air-lifting condoms to the afflicted areas!

 

Photo from Bangkok Post

[Bob]

Here

[Guest fountainhall]

The "idiotic" idea is promoted again on the front page of today's Nation!

 

More seriously, the paper suggests that October 16 - 18 will be the critical period for flooding in Bangkok. Ban Tak District Chief calls the flooding so far "the worst in 52 years". Where the flooding will hit Bangkok no-one can predict, but there are 27 communities in 13 districts that are prone to flooding every year. Here's a map prepared by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration showing the flooded areas last year -

 

[Guest]

Maybe the Thai government should send its people on a fact finding mission to Holland.

They seem to manage OK with flood defences.

[Moses]

Maybe the Thai government should send its people on a fact finding mission to Holland.

They seem to manage OK with flood defences.

 

it is just coz there are no monsoons and no typhoons in Holland...

[Rogie]

it is just coz there are no monsoons and no typhoons in Holland...

I think Europe gets off pretty lightly really when it comes to that sort of thing.

 

Hurricanes are rare and although we certainly get floods they are (other than countries like Holland and Belgium, the so-called Low Countries) usually due to unpredictable weather patterns.

 

We do have earthquakes but they are mild in comparison to those happening in countries on the well-known fault lines.

 

Other than man-made disasters (wars, famines, disease, Chernobyl, etc) apart from volcanoes (eg. Vesuvius) I cannot think of any really major natural disasters that have happened in Europe. No doubt there were plenty I haven't thought of, or am unaware of!

[Guest fountainhall]

Maybe the Thai government should send its people on a fact finding mission to Holland.

They seem to manage OK with flood defences.

it is just coz there are no monsoons and no typhoons in Holland...

Moses' comment is, with respect, only partly true. The 'Low Countries' certainly have a problem with too much land being at or below sea level. This makes it vulnerable to huge volumes of water surging into the sea from three very large rivers, including the Rhine (much larger in itself than the Chao Praya). However, the main reason for Holland's massive sea defences is to protect it from a natural disaster that happens only rarely - the last time was, I believe, in 1953.

 

Unfortunately for Holland - and Belgium, north eastern France and southern England, for that matter, they lie at a point where the North Sea narrows from a wide expanse of water to a funnel - the very narrow English Channel (only 21 miles wide at its entrance). Certain unusual weather patterns can force a storm surge southwards. When it gets closer to the Channel, inevitably the sea rises and will flood those countries in its path.

 

The Thames barrier in the UK, the world's second largest moveable flood barrier which protects London from sea surges, opened in 1984. Interestingly, as an indication of rising sea levels, in the 1980s the barrier was used four times, in the 1990s 35 times, and in the first decade of this century, 75 times. There is now talk that the barrier will have to be replaced or increased in size sooner than was expected. And this is just one flood control system on one river.

 

In 2011 dollars, total costs were around US$2.5 billion. I cannot imagine how much Holland's sea flood defences, built over a much longer period of time and covering a vast distance of approx. 1,500 miles, will have cost - but it must be somewhere close to US$1 trillion in today's money. Then there are annual costs of around US$300+ million just to maintain and replace.

 

Holland's hugely complex barriers of sea defences were declared one of the Seven Wonders of the Modern World by the American Society of Civil Engineers. Where is Thailand going to find the time and money to build anything even a fraction similar?

[Guest]

Holland's hugely complex barriers of sea defences were declared one of the Seven Wonders of the Modern World by the American Society of Civil Engineers. Where is Thailand going to find the time and money to build anything even a fraction similar?

 

The Dutch sea defences seem to protect a large proportion of the coastline of the entire country. Thailand should not try to replicate that, but at least it's capital could be properly protected against floods. They seem to find enough concrete for roads & elevated railways, when perhaps some of it should be redirected to flood defences.

[Moses]

Moses' comment is, with respect, only partly true.

 

You not get my idea, sorry. I will try to explain.

 

When you need just to protect some flat land from water which comes from some direction - you can easy resolve this problem with simple solution: "wall" (sand bags, dams, barriers, shields, etc). And question is just about money - than longer is line of protection, then more money you should spend on it.

 

In case with heavy rains like monsoons your task will be much more complicated: first - to collect this water and evacuate it to some drainage, then (second) to "push" this water to sea...and we are talking now about country where falls 1 cu meter of water per each 3 sq. meters of land per month!

 

If you will add to condition of task what territory of Thailand is almost 14 times bigger than territory of Netherlands in time when GDP of Thailand is in 2.2 times less, you will see how complicated is this task.

 

My calculations (very draft) show what it will even consume more electricity than Thailand has.

[Guest fountainhall]

I agree I was taking the Netherlands example to an extreme. Whereas that country has approx. 27% of its land actually below sea level - an area that's home to around 16 million inhabitants - Thailand has very little of its land at or below sea level. It just has a lousy irrigation system for the monsoon season.

 

The problem, as Moses points out, is therefore how to drain massive amounts of excess water. Bob proposed a solution in an earlier post which seems to me the most obvious - and the least expensive: start draining reservoirs earlier in the year so that there is a lot of spare capacity when the monsoon rains arrive. I don't know if that helps solve the problem in all parts of the country - probably not in the south and parts of the north-east - but I'd have thought it should at least alleviate the problem in the north and also prevent the level of the Chao Phraya rising too high and too fast in October each year.

 

Within Bangkok, the present measures seem to range from concrete walls at vulnerable points on the river, to run-off areas, klong dam gates, seemingly rather archaic pumping systems, underground tanks and even good old sandbags. Why, I wonder, does the BMA not look at other places in the region which suffer from similar rainfall patterns? Kuala Lumpur gets on average 50% more rain than Bangkok. Whilst it is prone to flash floods, it seems much better able to cope overall. Singapore is pretty flat, gets the same rainfall as KL, yet rarely seems to suffer from flooding.

 

Hong Kong receives on average twice the annual rainfall of Bangkok, much of it in concerted bursts during typhoons. I can recall one time in the early 1980s when a full 13 inches fell in little more than two hours! During that storm, the flood control measures could not cope. But since then, Hong Kong has constructed massive holding tanks under the main part of Hong Kong island, as well as several large tunnels to steer the water back into the sea.

 

But who would pay for even part of that here, I have zero idea.

[Guest fountainhall]

I just walked past part of Rama IV between Silom and Sathorn. Piles of sandbags have now been delivered to the Dusit Thani Hotel, the U Chu Liang Building (the one that houses HSBC) and Life Centre at the top of Sathorn. The latter two are set higher off the roadway and I would not have thought they'd need protection. Apparently Rama IV further east and Yannawa are both at risk. So if both flood, then I guess there's a good chance the waters will find their way to the upper part of Silom.