Russians: Lacking Social Skills

[Guest kjun12]

I spend a ridiculous amount of time on Flirt-for-free. One thing that I notice is that most of the Russian "models" lack polite social skills. If you're not paying they wont even talk when asked a direct question. This confirms (at least for me) that Russians are basically gruff, rough and not particularly polite people. Those I've met in person had similar behavior. Any thoughts on this?

[Guest OfficeMax]

I just think of them as not being house broken - or just generally rude and crude or at least the ones I have seen in Pattaya.

[Rogie]

I spend a ridiculous amount of time on Flirt-for-free. One thing that I notice is that most of the Russian "models" lack polite social skills. If you're not paying they wont even talk when asked a direct question.

I haven't heard of this. What's all this about paying when it says 'for free'?

[Moses]

Few questions:

- how do you know if they are Russian?

- was your conversation in Russian lang.?

- do you think prostitutes from camera-chat can accurately represent whole nationality?

[Guest fountainhall]

I am presently in Moscow for the second time in 2 weeks. I can confirm that the average Muscovite shows little civility to others. When I go on the subway, I routinely hold the door open for the next passenger who, far from acknowledging that I have done them a favour, does not even look up. When anyone goes in just ahead of me, the door swings back sometimes with considerable force.

 

I suspect the basic lack of being civil to others goes back to Soviet times when it was ingrained. The younger generation will have been brought up by the parents the same way - with a few exceptions. I have stayed in two hotels and in both the staff have been very courteous and kind. Drinking at the bar on top of the Swissotel 2 weeks ago, my colleagues and I were admiring the bar staff, both for their looks and their skills. Pavel, our cute waiter, said they were "the best". We were impressed - the best in Moscow. "No," he quickly added, "the best in Russia!" Apparently they win all the bar tending competitions!

 

I have only had a few days to look around, but have really enjoyed it. The city is expensive, but getting around is easy and cheap with one of the best metro systems in the world. The airport train is fast and also cheap. The major drawback is the lack of taxis and the need to haggle all the time with seemingly private cars.

 

Since Moscow is virtually en route from Europe to Thailand, I'd certainly recommend a stop-over if you can find a reasonably priced hotel. The Russian airline S7 is now part of the One World Alliance and links most cities in Europe with Bangkok. I expect the fares are reasonably inexpensive.

 

[Moses]

S7 has no direct flights from Moscow to BKK - it has 19 flights per week to BKK from some Siberian cities

 

Transaero and Aeroflot have about 25 direct flights per week to BKK and about 12 flights to Phuket from Moscow. Prices are $400-1200, economy, 2-way, depends on season.

[Guest fountainhall]

Thanks for the correction, Moses.

[Rogie]

I am presently in Moscow for the second time in 2 weeks.

Wonderful photos Fountainhall. The weather looks very variable, from blue skies to threatening clouds. Makes for a bit more of a challenge when taking photos if nothing else.

 

I haven't been to Russia so will not comment on whether its people are civil or not, but I am aware via various threads on discussion boards from time to time that others have strong opinions.

 

Back to the photos, from the exterior shots of the Russian Orthodox churches (I assume that is what the denomination is) they appear in good structural order. I see you went inside one church and it shows many worshippers. I wonder how the interior of the churches have been maintained. In view of the size and complexity of these churches they must cost a fortune in upkeep costs. I don't suppose they were that well-maintained during the decades of communist party rule.

[Guest thaiworthy]

I don't think you can pin it down to nationality, Russian or otherwise. Those guys are there to make money. As for the "free" in "flirt-for-free," I think that is just a brand name, in practice actually a teaser and getting some "free" response from them varies from individual to individual, not nationality to nationality. I would not call it rude or lacking social skills, it's just a matter of practicality as well since you can't respond to everyone and to every comment.

 

As for the pictures, they are great. You must have an interesting job, Fountainhall. I've often wondered what kind of work you do that brings you to so many interesting places.

[Moses]

Moscow subway (metro) is very nice and worth time to check. Best time to visit is close to midnight coz at peak time it is nightmare sometimes:

 

check this link - there are 50+ pages with photos at skyscrapercity.com

[Guest kjun12]

Hi Moses:

 

In response to your questions:

- how do you know if they are Russian? I ask them their nationality and they say they are Russian

- was your conversation in Russian lang.? No. English

- do you think prostitutes from camera-chat can accurately represent whole nationality? They are not prostitutes. They are making money off of us old farts who want to see their young bodies and talk to them.

 

I take it that you must be Russian. I have met Russians in Europe, USA and Thailand. Not all were rude. But, many I would say were crude if not just rude. Sorry. I don't want to insult you but that is what I deduce from those I've met.

[Guest kjun12]

Fountainhall, those photos are fantastic. When you get back here I would like to get together with you to see others you have taken in Russia. Those buildings are magnificent.

[Gaybutton]

This confirms (at least for me) that Russians are basically gruff, rough and not particularly polite people. Those I've met in person had similar behavior. Any thoughts on this?

"My compliments to the general. Please inform him I do not care to drink with him, or any other Russian son of a bitch."

- George C. Scott, 'Patton'

[Bob]

This confirms (at least for me) that Russians are basically gruff, rough and not particularly polite people. Those I've met in person had similar behavior. Any thoughts on this?

 

Whether it's true across the board or not, that's been my general impression from most of the Russians I've come across (which only has been in Pattaya and, to a much lesser extent, Phuket). But I have very little experience with them.

 

Part of the apparent gruffness, I think, is their language....it sounds gruff and nasty when you hear it (or it does to me). I remember on my first or second trip to Pattaya strolling down Walking Street and passing by a rather petite and beautiful russian girl (about 20 years old, I'd guess) and I was absolutely floored when she opened her mouth and spoke a few russian words. Although she looked like a little angel, she sounded like a Mack truck!

[Moses]

I take it that you must be Russian. I have met Russians in Europe, USA and Thailand. Not all were rude. But, many I would say were crude if not just rude. Sorry. I don't want to insult you but that is what I deduce from those I've met.

 

Nope. I'm not Russian (nationality), but I'm living in Moscow almost 20 years already

 

To understand situation: Russia is very big country - 17.8 bill.sq.km (USA with all territories 9.8 bill. sq.km)

 

Over 150 nationalities are living here and 90% of them are native in Russian lang. As well more than 75% of citizens of Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, and other 11 republics of the formerly USSR are native to Russian lang. and mostly use it as a primary language.

 

While there are about 100 mil. of Russians in total in all 15 countries, you can meet on streets about 250 mil. people who speak Russian as a native.

 

Thailand is popular destination here for ppl with low income: farmers, workers from factories, drivers of trucks etc. It is on 3d place after Egypt and Turkey by popularity coz it is cheap. Thailand as well is poplar destination for Ukrainians and Belorussians as they have 3-5 time low income than average Russian has.

 

Russian with average income prefer to spend vacation in USA, France, Italy, England, Greece or in countries of Latin America.

 

So when you hear Russian language at Thai streets in 80% ppl will be Ukrainians and Belorussians or rednecks from Siberia - with low level of educations and low income.

 

By the way: Moscow is great place to make business - high income makes Russians great customers, as well bank deposits generate good income too: +7.5% yearly for euro, 10% for rubles and 8.5% for dollars. Business isn't so wild like it was 10-15 years ago and can't generate 600-1000% of profit yearly, but still is good and competition isn't so high like it is in Western Europe.

[Rogie]

Moscow subway (metro) is very nice and worth time to check. Best time to visit is close to midnight coz at peak time it is nightmare sometimes:

If you're as ahem - well-built, as your avatar Moses I guess the rush hour could get a mite tight

 

Nope. I'm not Russian (nationality), but I'm living in Moscow almost 20 years already

Very interesting post, Moses. If you've lived there for nearly 20 years that covers almost the entire period since the old USSR disintegrated. What are the main changes to Russian society, its people (their attitudes, behaviour, aspirations etc) you've seen in that time?

[Moses]

I can tell you only about Moscow - I'm watching city day by day long time already.

At 90's - it was very unsafe and bandit's city. 90's - were years when "Russian mafia" become strong and had influence to all layers of life here.

 

This is gone already: at the beginning of first decade of 21 cent. FSB (formerly known as KGB), military and other official structures took mafia under control and almost destroy it - for to control mafia's business by themselves

 

In urban cities and rural regions life still isn't easy but it is much more better now. Average salary in Moscow now is about $1500 (as per reports of Trade Unions). Middle class appears to be well educated and civilized.

 

Russian education in schools and UNIs is very strong and has high-end quality in math, physics, chemistry (take a look at names of scientists who took Nobel prizes for past few years - there are many Russians names by nationality) while science has very low support from gov. and after education many Russians prefer to work abroad of country.

 

In general people are smiling more often now and are more open for communication. Many young Rusisans from middle-class have good English skills.

 

Moscow is now filled by workers from other regions and republics of ex-USSR: by statistic Moscow now has 12.5 mln citizens, but level of everyday consumption of food shows 20 mln consumers.

 

High level of prices for renting apartments allows to native citizens of Moscow to leave their apartment for renting and to live somewhere else (in Spain, Italy, Thailand) without any job: even small (20 sq.m) low class studio far from center generates $1000 monthly income from renting.

 

Living here without knowledges of Russian language is almost impossible: you will need good relations with officials, but almost nobody of them can speak English.

[Guest kjun12]

Thanks Moses for taking the time to provide this inside information. It is very interesting.

[Guest fountainhall]

I wonder how the interior of the churches have been maintained. In view of the size and complexity of these churches they must cost a fortune in upkeep costs. I don't suppose they were that well-maintained during the decades of communist party rule.

I believe many were in a pretty bad state at the end of Communist rule, and Stalin’s henchman had pulled down a few, including several that have now been rebuilt. I managed to walk into several, and all seemed to be in pretty good nick. Whilst some may appear very large on the outside, they tend to have a relatively small main chapel with lots of smaller ones surrounding it. So whilst many appear very tall inside, the actual floor area is not big. Services seem to go on for hours, and worshippers just wander in and out at will. I loved the deep-voiced open-throated choral singing I heard. So typically Russian.

 

The weather looks very variable, from blue skies to threatening clouds. Makes for a bit more of a challenge when taking photos if nothing else.

I find iPhoto amazing. Using ‘highlights’ enables clouds to appear like clouds rather than a mass of white, and ‘shadows’ increases the brightness of dull shadows.

 

You must have an interesting job, Fountainhall. I've often wondered what kind of work you do that brings you to so many interesting places.

I work as a consultant in a rather specialised field and have been extremely fortunate to work in a variety of jobs for which travel has been essential (paid for by someone else, that is!). The beauty of that kind of arrangement is that I have been able to stop off in interesting and exciting places at almost no travel cost to myself. Also, it builds up tons of air miles. Although the first few days in Moscow were for a Conference, I had to use miles to get there

 

Part of the apparent gruffness, I think, is their language....it sounds gruff and nasty when you hear it (or it does to me) . . . Although she looked like a little angel, she sounded like a Mack truck!

I actually think Cantonese and Tagalog sound far worse, especially when the girls are speaking loudly!

 

Fountainhall, those photos are fantastic. When you get back here I would like to get together with you to see others you have taken in Russia. Those buildings are magnificent.

Thank you. I have about 300 pics (would have taken more but for the dreadful rain on my first few days there). I’ll cull them down to around 150 and be delighted to show them to you. I’m back in BKK on Tuesday 27. Just send me a pm.

 

Moscow subway (metro) is very nice and worth time to check. Best time to visit is close to midnight coz at peak time it is nightmare sometimes

I agree the subway is one of the marvels of the city. Is there any other subway system, I wonder, which is so far underground? The escalators seem to go on and on forever. I spent a couple of hours yesterday starting around 10:00 am and found it easy to take pics, largely because most of the murals, mozaics and plasterwork are above head height. A few subway pics attached, as well as one of a gorgeous baroque church I found in the outskirts of the city. One ticket takes you everywhere, and so as long as you don't exit, you can ride around for hours!

 

I managed to get around with just 4 words/phrases - 'please', 'thank you', 'ten' (for the ten-ride metro ticket) and 'where?' With a good guidebook, it's really an easy city to get around.

[Moses]

Great report

 

If you want amazing photos of church you have to visit this one

[Guest fountainhall]

If you want amazing photos of church you have to visit this one

I think this is the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour which dominates many views of Moscow. Sadly, whilst I took several photos of the outside, I did not have time to visit the interior. It looks amazing! Next time!

 

A quick postscript on a related topic which dominated this Board for some weeks - the case against the Russian conductor which seems to have fallen into an extraordinary kind of limbo. I have always thought the guy was framed but could only back that up with lots of circumstantial evidence. On the first day of the Conference, I went to a concert in the Tchaikovsky Hall of the Moscow Conservatoire conducted by him with his stunning Russian National Orchestra. Who should be in the audience? The Thailand ambassador and his wife! Given the worldwide publicity, if there was any doubt whatever about his innocence, don't you think the Thai ambassador would have been instructed to keep well clear of such a public occasion? Just a thought!

[Rogie]

Who should be in the audience? The Thailand ambassador and his wife! Given the worldwide publicity, if there was any doubt whatever about his innocence, don't you think the Thai ambassador would have been instructed to keep well clear of such a public occasion? Just a thought!

One of the perks of being an ambassador no doubt. Was that business or pleasure I wonder? I also wonder if ambassadors are necessarily that intelligent. The current American one in Thailand has come under flak recently over her handling of the Joe Gordon case and an earlier one Ralph Boyce was revealed in Wikileaks cables around the time of the 2006 coup to have shown clear bias in favour of the monarchist establishment against the Thaksin government.

 

Social skills may be lacking in many Russians, but are a pre-requisite for Ambassadors. But beyond that it seems they are a pretty mixed bunch, keeping a low profile and trying not to tread on any toes.

[Guest fountainhall]

I also wonder if ambassadors are necessarily that intelligent.

I suspect they cover a wide spectrum of intelligence since some are there merely because they donate huge sums to the incumbent President. But if a non-Thai is persona non grata in the country for any reason at all, I'd be pretty sure the Foreign Ministry would have sent out strong signals about their Ambassadors definitely not being seen at any public event in that person's presence.

[Rogie]

I find iPhoto amazing.

Not being a sophisticated photographer, I have not heard of this. 'i' assume from the 'i' prefix it is something to do with Apple, bit beyond that 'i' am clueless!

 

I agree the subway is one of the marvels of the city.

I am impressed - marvel is an appropriate word to use to describe, going from your photos.

As an aside: I notice if I access the message board without signing in that the description of the individual photos appears in lieu of the photos themselves. So for example it might say "Kremlin Square" but this useful information is lost when you sign on to view the photos.

 

I suspect they cover a wide spectrum of intelligence . . .

Behaviour would have been a better word for me to have used regarding my reference to the current American ambassador. No doubt she is an intelligent woman. Here is a satirical link to the situation I referred to in my previous post.

 

http://notthenation.com/2011/08/us-embassy-disappointed-that-joe-gordon-not-blonde-young-female/

 

As for the Thailand ambassador attending a concert in Moscow to hear the Russian conductor I agree he would be ill-advised to attend if the situation you refer to were applicable. You spotted him and no doubt so did may others. There cannot have been many non-Caucasians in the audience (but I am happy to be told otherwise).

[Guest fountainhall]

Not being a sophisticated photographer, I have not heard of this. 'i' assume from the 'i' prefix it is something to do with Apple, bit beyond that 'i' am clueless!

It's the Apple photo storage and processing programme.

 

As for the Thailand ambassador attending a concert in Moscow to hear the Russian conductor I agree he would be ill-advised to attend if the situation you refer to were applicable.

I hadn't a clue who he was until I was introduced to him and his wife! Otherwise I'd have had no idea he was there.