Good and Evil?

[Guest fountainhall]

It seems it’s not just in Thailand that Hitler and the Nazis have been attracting attention recently. Only yesterday, 7-Eleven stores in Taiwan pulled the sale of key chains, USB drives and magnets -

 

- featuring a cartoon vampire that bears a striking resemblance to Adolf Hitler.

 

Taiwan has a history of Nazi imagery popping up in public as a result of commercial use.

 

In 1999, a local company used an image of Hitler to advertise space heaters made in Germany. Additionally, in 2000, a restaurant in Taipei called The Jail displayed images of Nazi concentration camps, while a bar in Taipei operated under the name “Nazi Bar” during the 1990s. Both businesses later removed the references.

 

The nation’s fascination with Nazi lore could stem from the fact that the party has become a symbol of courage because of poor education, which explains why an association created to explore Hitler’s achievements was able to garner interest from 1,000 people in 2005.

 

“They’re not anti-Semitic, just ignorant,” Lin Chong-pin, a professor of strategic studies at Tamkang University in Taiwan, told the Christian Science Monitor after a photo surfaced on the Ministry of National Defense’s website of three students wearing Nazi uniforms at a military summer camp. “They think the Nazi uniforms look spirited, that the high hat looks very heroic,” he said. “Reading and understanding of history is very poor.”

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/28/7-eleven-stores-in-taiwan-pull-hitler-lookalike-items/

 

To me, that image is nowhere near as insensitive as the costumes worn by Thai students. In fact, it appears almost innocuous.

[kokopelli]

I agree with you Sir! IMHO, it is murder by omission. I am also just sad to wonder that the future news reels of American's will look like with the stuff we have pulled in the last 10 years. It is not as massive as the Holocaust, but as Americans we too are guilty of turning a blind side to the horrors of what has happened to "suspects" and entire villages in Afghanistan or Iraq.

 

I just got around to reading this thread.

 

Now in the USA, there are those (Tea Party and Republicans) who are using "illegal" aliens, namely Latinos, as the scapegoat for the country's ills and are rounding them up, imprisoning them, and deporting them. And most Americans ignore this issue or even support it. Herr Hitler would be proud of his legacy.

[Guest fountainhall]

Herr Hitler would be proud of his legacy.

I reckon it's probably more correct to say Hitler was adding to an already quite extensive historical legacy. Anti-semitism, for example, goes way back before Christ. It was manifested in massacres under both the Greek and Roman Empires, and continued with pogroms well into early 20th century Russia and the Soviet Union. But Hitler stands apart as the one determined to stamp out the entire race.

 

As for the Tea Party and other 21st century crazies, we are, as you say, largely standing by and washing our hands of the problem. It's the same closer to home with the Thai government's treatment of the Rohinyas from Myanmar and the Islamists in the South. We condemn it, write to newspapers, message Boards, senators, MPs and so on. But ultimately, we achieve nothing. It's all pretty depressing!

[Guest fountainhall]

There is an Opinion piece in the Bangkok Post today by Kong Rithdee which gives a number of reasons why the Chiang Mai kids acted as they did. It starts perceptively -

 

All that was missing was the screening of Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will, outdoors right there under the Swastika banners. How historical illiteracy can be so appalling, so embarrassing. Without intending to, the high-schoolers at the now-infamous Chiang Mai school who put together a Nazi parade attempted Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk and ended up performing a cheap-shot tragedy in which they were both the perpetrators and the victims

The writer then goes on to remind readers -

 

Perhaps someone made them read the uncorrected history books, because technically - and this is a fact - we were on the Fuhrer's side when WWII started (the Allies bombed us, remember?) Ignorance is bliss, then blisters, then blitzkrieg. I wonder if the fact that we encourage children to play with tanks, RPGs and AK-47 on Children's Day as if they were militarised Teletubbies has anything to do with this.

 

In fact, I do not wonder. I think it has.

He then goes on to discuss freedom of expression -

 

That everything - anything - can be expressed in public is an ideal we strive for, as long as that expression is founded on belief, checked by accountability, grounded in moral acceptability (a broad one), and - this is the toughest - tested by history. Nazism, a rule based on prejudice and violence, failed all of these a long time ago and it was, in effect, outlawed like poison.

And then the interesting part. He brings in the issue of the freedom to criticise. Many have criticised the children and their school. Yet those who dare criticise one particular aspect of Thai society -

 

- are cowed into the trap of censorship and legal bullying; it is a fine line we're treading, but here we're talking about everything from movies to literature, from websites to (why not) the exploitation of Section 112 by politicians . . .

 

Just a note here: more or less the Chiang Mai kids and their teachers broke the European taboo with their performance, but while they are socially condemned and internationally humiliated, they won't be legally persecuted or jailed. Such an outcome, alas, might not happen to those subjected to Article 112.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/259153/the-blisters-of-ignorance

[Rogie]

And then the interesting part. He brings in the issue of the freedom to criticise.

Yes, those that live in glass houses . . .

 

I'm in danger of getting out of my depth here but I'll give it a go:

 

It looks to me as though the writer of that opinion piece is using the Chiang Mai episode to make the point that some of the things that have happened in Thailand, including Section 112, are the sort of thing that could have happened in another country and another time.

 

The proposal by the Nitirat group, comprising seven law academics from Thammasat University, that all judicial decisions which were a consequence of the Sept 19, 2006 coup be nullified and that Section 112 of the Criminal Code, which deals with lese majeste offences, be amended.

has come under fire from:

 

Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha says there is no need to amend Section 112 of the Criminal Code because the monarchy has never harmed anybody and has contributed a great deal to the country.

and:

 

The Lawyers Council of Thailand also issued a statement yesterday opposing the Nitirat group's idea. It said the proposal has caused confusion about the constitutional monarchy.

and:

 

Kittisak Prokkati, a law lecturer at Thammasat University, posted on Facebook that it was wrong for the Nitirat group to make a comparison between things that should not be compared.

who makes an interesting comparison from history:

 

He said that what the Nitirat group was asking for could be justified in some circumstances, but not in the current situation. He cited the quashing of decisions made by German courts set up by Adolf Hitler during the Nazi regime as a valid example, as such courts were not truly judicial organisations, but rather Nazi organizations under the guise of courts.

 

When Germany issued legislation to nullify all decisions made by its courts, it was legitimate for Germany to do so, said Mr Kittisak. "But this cannot be compared with the situation in Thailand [after the 2006 coup d'etat] because the judges in the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions were not appointed by the coup-makers, but selected from professional judges," he said.

 

I think we all know where the rather outspoken army chief stands on this, as well as other things, so you can make your own mind up whether his objection is a fair one.

 

As for the Lawyers Council, many people think they show too much sympathy to the coup-makers rather than supporting true democracy.

 

http://www.asiaviews.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32098:prayuth-slams-nitirat-proposals&catid=1:headlines&Itemid=2

 

If criticism leads to well-argued debate that has to be encouraged.

[Guest thaiworthy]

In the context of this thread, I have begun taking a closer look at Christopher Isherwood. There are some fascinating parallels between he and other gay expats in Thailand. There is also a relevant issue of how he dealt with his gayness while living in Berlin in the early 30s. Rejecting his upper middle class background and attracted to males, he remained in Berlin, the capital of the young Weimar Republic, drawn by its reputation for sexual freedom. There, he "fully indulged his taste for pretty youths." Interestingly enough, it hard for me to think of Isherwood as an ordinary punter, but commenting on John Henry Mackay's Der Puppenjunge (The Hustler), Isherwood wrote: "It gives a picture of the Berlin sexual underworld early in this century which I know, from my own experience, to be authentic."

 

He went to Berlin in search of boys. But perhaps with the rise of Nazism and the decline of freedom, Isherwood left Germany in 1933 after writing several works that became the inspiration for the movie Cabaret. He immigrated to the US in 1939. I cannot find any definitive reference as to why Isherwood left Berlin other than a (presumed) distaste for the approaching social climate.

 

On Valentine's Day 1953 (poetic), at the age of 48, he met teenaged Don Bachardy among a group of friends on the beach at Santa Monica. Reports of Bachardy's age at the time vary, but Bachardy later said "at the time I was, probably, 16." In fact, Bachardy was 18. Despite the age difference, this meeting began a partnership that, though interrupted by affairs and separations, continued until the end of Isherwood's life.

 

 

I didn't think it was possible for a man that age to have a successful relationship with someone 30 years his junior within the United States. But I suppose it can happen. But Isherwood was an expat too, so this becomes so much more interesting. Of course, it helps if you are an accomplished writer and celebrity. But in Thailand, perhaps expats are also viewed by some Thais as accomplished and in a certain respect, a celebrity as well.

 

I think the relationship between Chris and Don could even serve as role models for gay people in the West, if only the younger gays there weren't so preoccupied with their own youth. Is this more predominant now than it was back then?

 

Christopher Isherwood

[Rogie]

That's a great photo - could be just about any father and son family portrait. I think I can read into that photo and begin to understand how the relationship lasted for over 30 years.

 

I've no idea what sort of society existed in Santa Monica in the early post-war years, I've never been there, but even if there was a liberated atmosphere to the place it must have been difficult for gay teenagers to really feel they fitted in. As far as I'm aware Bachardy was a normal healthy young American - intelligent, well-educated and I imagine from a respectable family.

 

So another of my equations:

 

awkward but receptive young man + experienced older man + straight-laced society = good chance of success (because not that many options)

 

whereas in Thailand:

 

street-wise young man from disadvantaged background + experienced older man + sexually enlightened society = poor chance of success (because so many options)

 

Please note that I am aware of many examples of relationships in Thailand that are working and are successful (in a recent thread on the Main Forum quite a few of our members told of their experiences) but I think the consensus would be that sadly they are in the minority.

 

So when Thaiworthy asks:

 

I think the relationship between Chris and Don could even serve as role models for gay people in the West, if only the younger gays there weren't so preoccupied with their own youth. Is this more predominant now than it was back then?

 

I would argue the situation in the West now is more like the Thai equation. What the two different equations do not factor in is money! It is probably taken as read that the Thai equation assumes that. I know that as a wealthy high status individual Isherwood might well seem quite appealing to somebody with Bachardy's background, but I'd be surprised if money was a motivating factor. Nowadays I believe it would be.

 

So our 'street-wise young man from disadvantaged background' in any Western country is hustling for money, and he doesn't even have to be 'disadvantaged' - the money is good so plenty of college-educated young men may feel tempted too.

 

When young men in the West can find plenty of partners their own age and when those who do have a relationship with an older man are mainly hustlers, I would put any modern-day relationship comparable to Isherwood + Bachardy into the 'poor chance of success' category.

[Guest fountainhall]

awkward but receptive young man + experienced older man + straight-laced society = good chance of success (because not that many options)

Most of us know Cabaret from the famous 1972 movie with Liza Minelli as Sally Bowles, but there have been several excellent stage productions. In the original Broadway production, the great Lotte Lenya (wife of the composer Kurt Weill of

[Bob]

So I would argue it was less about Hitler and much more the military aspect which I am prepared to believe struck a chord with those students (and the teachers too assuming they must have had an inkling of what was going to happen).

 

In my view, you're making this into something it isn't. I've walked by the Sacred Heart school many times and, in my view, none of this (the wearing of the Nazi uniforms by some of the students) was for any heady or symbolic reason. It's much simpler and more benign than what others are trying to paint it. The kids recently took a WWII history lesson (which likely was very incompletely taught by the same teachers that didn't notice diddley about the uniforms until after the fact), some 16-17 year old girls likely thought the outfits were cool/trendy/weird (or something that Lady Gaga might wear), and that's probably all the brainpower that was used to come up with this stunt. They weren't emulating anybody, they were just being teenage silly. And they probably still don't appreciate what all the newspaper fuss was about.

 

Invoking darker motives to explain this minor event, in my view, involves baseless speculation.

[Guest fountainhall]

I agree with Bob, and said so earlier in suggesting this was perhaps just a prank that got a bit out of hand.

 

But the original subject was much wider than the events at Chiang Mai's school parade - and much more important as it deals with some of the possible reasons for evil in the world. It has also broadened out into several equally interesting topics. And with the number of hits now being amongst the highest of late in the Beer Bar, it is clearly of considerable interest to quite a lot of people.

[Guest fountainhall]

. . . what we know as the swastika is originally an Asian symbol closely associated with Buddhism

I was interested to find the swastika used quite commonly on my recent trip to the edge of the Tibetan plateau

[Bob]

The symbol has been used by cultures for thousands of years but, sadly, it's original meaning (from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix) of good luck, strength, life, etc., has been forever darkened by its use by and association with the Nazi thugs.

[ChristianPFC]

I recently read that "Swastika" and "Sawatdee" have the same root. But imagine my surprise when I saw this picture on a Thai friend's facebook page, and I found some more similar pictures on facebook.

[Guest fountainhall]

imagine my surprise when I saw this picture on a Thai friend's facebook page, and I found some more similar pictures on facebook.

I checked on wikipedia. It may refer to a modern religious sect -

 

The Raëlian Movement, who believe that Extra-Terrestrials originally created all life on earth, use a symbol that is often the source of considerable controversy: an interlaced star of David and a swastika. The Raelians state that the Star of David represents infinity in space whereas the swastika represents infinity in time i.e. there being no beginning and no end in time, and everything being cyclic. In 1991, the symbol was changed to remove the swastika, out of respect to the victims of the Holocaust, but as of 2007 has been restored to its original form

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

 

On the other hand, there is also mention on another site of a possible neo-Japanese militaristic connection. One blogger contended in 2008 there is -

 

A Japanese religious organization has a symbol that combines swastika and Star of David.

 

This religious organization is a detachment force of the Japanese government for militarism promotion. The central government, the control authority and politicians who have special relations with the organization including Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda and former prime minister Junichiro Koizumi should express their opinions at the press conference. The international community will never accept such provocative relations. The religious organization seems to have a lot of assets. People's taxes and slush funds may be poured into the organization. If my story is true, it is really a heinous crime against humanity.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/israel/TP5LVKRU4FQN9TMAU

 

True? No idea! But Japan certainly has quite a number of obscure religious sects, many extremely wealthy and with links to one or other political faction.

[Rogie]

But imagine my surprise when I saw this picture on a Thai friend's facebook page, and I found some more similar pictures on facebook.

Can you not enquire of your friend's reason for having it on his page? Or perhaps there is no particular reason other than that he likes the design . . .

 

But Japan certainly has quite a number of obscure religious sects, many extremely wealthy and with links to one or other political faction.

The Japanese sect seems possible. It looks like the sun's rays behind the swastica and the design is full of, to me at any rate, gibberish symbols, reminiscent of the signs of the zodiac. Or it could just be somebody's flight of fancy, it even has the designers name on it 'lokesh'.

 

The Raelian's, as far as I can tell after a quick look for their symbols, use this kind of design:

[ChristianPFC]

Can you not enquire of your friend's reason for having it on his page? Or perhaps there is no particular reason other than that he likes the design . . .

I did (long time ago), I don't remember what he wrote, but the reply didn't answer my question (his writing in English is often difficult to understand). So it's safe to assume he just liked the design and that he doesn't know what swastika and star of david symbolize in Europe. He is friends with some people from India, which had some similar pictures in their albums or even on their profiles.

[Rogie]

On 17th December last year 25 year old Englishwoman Joanna Yeates went missing; her body was discovered on Christmas Day, thus sparking a murder hunt - she had been strangled. On 20th January this year Vincent Tabak, a 33 year-old Dutch engineer was arrested on suspicion of murder. Last Friday he was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment. Why do I post on this here? Following on from my interest in the subject (see earlier posts) and from what I have read about this man's life (and many things only became public after the verdict was announced) I suspect he is a psychopath. I have absolutely no medical evidence for that but his behaviour just reeks of it. Be that as it may, psychopath or not, I came across this thought-provoking article on Tabak in Britain's Telegraph newspaper.

 

If “The Missing Pizza Box Murder” were an Agatha Christie mystery, Vincent Tabak would be the last character the reader suspected.

 

The culprit's very unlikelihood has to help explain why the Joanna Yeates case has proven so universally unnerving.

 

Tabak's conviction for murder on Friday casts an alarming pall of dubiety over every unremarkable, regular Joe we know.

 

The author goes on to discuss the hidden side of our natures:

 

The press has made much of Tabak's having “led a secret life” now that the prosecution has revealed his history of watching violent internet porn, some featuring strangulation. (my comment: this fact although known to the prosecution was deemed inadmissable evidence by the judge, therefore the jury were unaware of it)

But why is this surprising? We're all sexual beings, and contend with powerful animal forces that we generally conceal behind closed doors.

 

Sexual arousal often feels like a form of possession, like the emergence of an unruly, uncivilised double whom we do not recognise. Knowing this about ourselves, why do we not routinely fear the double that lurks in everyone else?

 

This alternative personality is all the more frightening now that ubiquitous internet pornography is tailored to service a wide range of aberrant fantasies. Au naturale, fantasy is hazy, flickering, and fleeting.

 

Video externalises these images and renders them concrete, making the leap between imaginings and their realisation seem less drastic.

 

Porn illustrates that the interior can get out. The very vagueness of our unassisted febrile visions helps to prevent them from becoming monotonous, while repeatedly watching the same literal movie gets dull fast.

 

Video pornography is therefore imbued with an escalator: it needs to keep getting sicker and weirder.

 

For many young men who've imprinted on the internet's sexual extravaganzas, ordinary intercourse must seem like a big bore. Moreover, contemporary porn exceeds in detail and extremity what most of us would concoct on our lonesome. In effect, porn fantasises for us.

 

I've no desire to harbour unabating paranoia about my neighbours, nor would I wish to afflict myself with images of their engaging in untoward acrobatics when the curtains are drawn. But in our embarrassment about our own sex lives, we often obliterate that side of other people, much as we don't prefer to envision acquaintances on the lavatory.

 

This mental whitewashing, this tendency to stick pieces of tape over our fellows' anatomies, edits out a powerful drive in their lives that these days is often nourished, contorted, and amplified by online smut. That instinctive trust we feel in people whom we see every day and who help to form the backdrop of our peaceable, reliable world is a form of laziness. We're not using the intelligence we have on everybody: we all lead secret lives.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8858108/Young-employed-and-Dutch-why-man-who-murdered-Joanna-Yeates-unnerved-us-all.html

[Guest fountainhall]

Why do I post on this here? Following on from my interest in the subject (see earlier posts) and from what I have read about this man's life (and many things only became public after the verdict was announced) I suspect he is a psychopath.

Interesting article, Rogie. But I have looked at the original in full, and have to say I find the tenor of the writing bordering on the melodramatic and sensational. I also think the writer is locked up in some closet or other!

 

For example, the writer sets the scene –

 

Why did Tabak seem so improbable? He was highly educated. While no degree confers moral immaculacy, earning a PhD in engineering is a lot of work.

 

Such stakeholders in rectitude have far more to lose than those on the social margins by giving in to wayward impulses.

 

Young and employed, he faced a promising future that it would be lunacy to imperil by strangling his next-door neighbour. He had a live-in girlfriend, and the appearance of maintaining a stable, faithful relationship is sexually neutralising; it makes people seem safe.

Sorry, but that’s a lot of garbage! “Stakeholders in rectitude”? “Live-in girlfriend?” “Makes people feel safe?” The fact is there is no text book analysis about the personalities of what makes one person commit murder and another not. A great many, I have a feeling, are just like Tabak, plain and simple.

 

And then the writer starts injecting just a hint of doubt, before covering it all up again.

 

Although more recent photographs portray Tabak as slitty-eyed and shifty, those available at his arrest conveyed a shy, cringing, nerdy guy - the type who might fancy a girl from afar, but who'd never get up the nerve to declare his affections, much less wrap his hand around her throat.

 

Most of all, Tabak hails from Uden in the Netherlands. While academically I realise that whole countries are never 100 per cent populated with paragons, I associate Holland with good cheese, generous foreign aid, wind farms, bicycles, and recycling.

 

All the folks I've met on trips to Amsterdam have been nice people - if sometimes a little bland and edgeless in their uniform benevolence.

I ask you! Who is this writer that writes that sort of third-rate, cheap novel, trivial nonsense?! His patronising comments about the Dutch are nauseous!

 

She then touches on Tabak’s “secret life . . . his history of watching violent internet porn, some featuring strangulation.”

 

Ah, yes, we all have a secret life, don’t we? And I reckon a good few of us watch porn from time to time. I have even occasionally looked at some pretty gruesome Japanese porn (out of curiosity’s sake; definitely not to get my kicks – I’m much more into romance – ). But that doesn’t turn me, or others like me, into murderers - consciously or subconsciously. Nor does his suggestion that watching porn must make “ordinary intercourse . . . seem like a big bore” hold any validity for me.

 

The writer, to me, gives herself away near the end when she talks about "sexual arousal often feels like a form of possession." In rapists perhaps, but in most people?? I think not, madam. Then she starts a sentence with the phrase, “But in our embarrassment about our own sex lives . . .” Now I don’t know what sort of sheltered sex life this writer has lead, but I’m not in the least embarrassed about my sex life, and I’m pretty sure most other readers of this Board are the same. Of course, some people in some places may be, but they are I think in a small minority and not, as the writer seems to imply, in the majority. In fact, the writer sounds as though she is still living in the 19th century, for goodness sake!

 

But then, perhaps she's a psycopath (sorry Rogie )

 

As a postscript, I think we learn a good deal about the lady (yes, "Lionel" is a she!) from her background, of which wikipedia says -

 

Lionel Shriver was born Margaret Ann Shriver on May 18, 1957 in Gastonia, North Carolina, to a deeply religious family (her father is a Presbyterian minister). At age 15, she changed her name from Margaret Ann to Lionel because she did not like the name she had been given, and as a tomboy felt that a conventionally male name fitted her better.

Clearly, she was some mixed-up gal! Religion, after all, has a tendency to do that to people - no?

[Guest thaiworthy]

Today I did a birthday magic show for a Hindu family from India. This is the third show I've done here in the Houston area for a family from an Indian culture, the other two were not Hindu, but Catholic, which represent only 1% of the religious population in India.

 

I noticed some symbols affixed to the threshold of their door. I had to take my shoes off before entering the house and that's when I noticed it. This is relevant to the topic since symbols have been mentioned, but have never really seen one displayed until now. I asked what the symbols meant and I was told they are "God's footprints." Clearly, you can see one of them is a swastika, on the far right. Thought it was interesting, so I snapped a photo with my iPhone to share here.

[Rogie]

I asked what the symbols meant and I was told they are "God's footprints."

Interesting photo Thaiworthy, well spotted! I hope your show 'brought the house down'!

 

That reference to God's footprints reminds me of Adam's Peak in Sri Lanka. I remember getting up at some unearthly hour along with some other travel companions in order to climb it. I think it must have been during the pilgrim season as I recall it was very busy.

 

Sri Pada (also Adam's peak; Sinhalese Samanalakanda - "butterfly mountain", is a 2,243 metres (7,359 ft) tall conical mountain located in central Sri Lanka. It is well known for the Sri Pada "sacred footprint", a 1.8 metres (5 ft 11 in) rock formation near the summit . . .

Buddhists say that the footprint mark is the left foot of the Buddha, left behind as he strode away . . .

 

Tamil Hindus consider it as the footprint of Lord Shiva. It is also fabled that the mountain is the legendary mount Trikuta the capital of Ravana during the Ramayana times from where he ruled Lanka.

 

Muslims and Christians in Sri Lanka ascribe it to where Adam, the first Ancestor, set foot as he was exiled from the Garden of Eden. The legends of Adam are connected to the idea that Sri Lanka was the original Eden.

http://en.wikipedia....Pada_(Sri_Lanka)

[Guest thaiworthy]

It seems it’s not just in Thailand that Hitler and the Nazis have been attracting attention recently. Only yesterday, 7-Eleven stores in Taiwan pulled the sale of key chains, USB drives and magnets -

 

http://news.blogs.cn...ookalike-items/

 

To me, that image is nowhere near as insensitive as the costumes worn by Thai students. In fact, it appears almost innocuous.

 

 

 

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.

 

Bangkok's 'Hitler chic' trend riles tourists, Israeli envoy:

 

Cartoon pandas, Teletubbies, Ronald McDonald. At first glance they don’t seem to have much in common beyond a certain childlike quality. But during a visit to Bangkok you may discover another trait these popular cultural icons now share: their resemblance to Adolf Hitler.

In the Thai capital’s latest outbreak of Nazi chic, pandas, Teletubbies and Ronald have metamorphosed into cutesy alter egos of the Führer, who seems to exert a childlike fascination over some young Thais.

 

 

http://www.cnngo.com...ic-trend-138530

 

Lesse, first there was that parade in Chiang Mai, with the excuse that it was fashionable to march in Nazi uniforms, now this.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, related news:

 

'Hitler is not dead' billboard rattles Bangkok envoys

 

A billboard featuring a saluting Adolf Hitler advertising a new wax museum in Pattaya -- which can be seen in this Bangkok Post story -- has shocked the Israeli and German ambassadors to Thailand. And not in a good way.

 

The offending billboard, which has since been covered up, was put up on the main highway into the seaside resort town as part of an advertising campaign to promote next month’s opening of the Louis Tussaud's Waxworks. In Thai-language, the billboard reads: "Hitler is not dead."

 

http://www.cnngo.com...not-dead-141326

 

Is there just no sensitivity to Nazi atrocities in Thailand? This event takes place in Pattaya. I can't believe these stories are all due to just plain ignorance!?

 

ACHTUNG! Nevermind the wax museum, there should be an exhibit at Ripley's Believe It Or Not, because quite frankly, this is all quite unbelievable!

[ChristianPFC]

Why can't they get over it?

 

Nowadays, children disguise for carnival as pirates or cowboys and Indians (native north americans). Nobody complains, but at their time pirates were the scourge of mankind and during the colonization of north America, the Indians were partially eradicated (oxymoron?).

 

Now the situation is the following: the second world war and the holocaust is a good subject for movies; German civilans, refugees and prisoners of war who died during allied bombings is not.

 

On the other hand, nobody would wear a KZ-uniform for fun because it doesn't look fashionable. However, Nazi uniforms and flags seem to have an aesthetic appeal for many people. Just admit it: the Nazis had a sense for design!

[Guest thaiworthy]

Why can't they get over it?

 

Ahem . . . perhaps you can try explaining your rationale to these organizations:

 

http://dir.yahoo.com.../Organizations/

 

I'm sure they will have plenty to say about your sense of fun and fashion.

 

Pirates? Really?

 

Anne Frankly, I hope no one ever gets over it.

[Guest fountainhall]

ChristianPFC - you have told us before that you are German by birth. I think that some of your countrymen may feel the same way as you, but many do not. Germany surrendered after the death of Hitler, has formally apologised (or whatever the proper term is) many times, has accepted its responsibilities, and paid in full the reparations demanded by the Allies. This is quite unlike Japan which has never formally admitted its guilt for its massive killing spree throughout China, Asia and in the Pacific, continuing to doctor its school textbooks and merely expressing "deep sorrow" so as not to alienate the strong right wing in the country.

 

I wrote not so long ago about my father's admiration for Germany and its people, even though he had been a prisoner of war for five years. I feel the same way.

 

But I think it is important to draw a line between the country and its people, and the previous Nazi leadership. Hitler was one of the most notorious criminals of any century. You can not even put him at the same level as Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, for whilst they were murdering monsters responsible for many ten of millions of deaths, at least - and this is not in any way meant to lessen their crimes - they murdered their own peoples. Hitler directly and indirectly killed roughly 60 million people around the world, thrust countless others into misery and poverty by starting World War II and was determined as a matter of principle to wipe out the Jewish race (no, I am not Jewish).

 

Hitler is one of the few, most hideous creatures to have walked the face of the earth in the history of mankind. The pirates, the European and American colonialists, the Huns, the newly emergent Muslim faith in the 7th, 8th and 9th centuries, the Christians with their Crusades in Palestine and their conquering forces in Central and South America - they all also slaughtered millions. But not one other leader, I believe, can be compared to Hitler.

 

And it is for that reason that anything associated with Hitler and the Nazis is so loathsome and insulting to so many people. The Nazis stood for much that is evil. To wear anything associated with the Nazis merely serves to lessen the crimes they committed against the human race.

[Guest fountainhall]

This seems the appropriate thread to add one more issue.

 

We all know what eugenics is – what wikipedia calls “improving the genetic features of human populations through selective breeding and sterilization.” And we know about it mostly, I believe, because of the horrors of World War II and the Nazi programme to breed a pure “race”. How many of us, I wonder, have ever bothered to ask where the inspiration came for such atrocities?

 

I never realised until this morning that the United States provided Nazi Germany with much of that inspiration and, what’s more, much of the research!

 

By 1910, there was a large and dynamic network of scientists, reformers and professionals engaged in national eugenics projects and actively promoting eugenic legislation . . . In 1907, Indiana passed the first eugenics-based compulsory sterilization law in the world. Thirty U.S. states would soon follow their lead. Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of a Virginia law allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927

 

. . . Since women bore children, eugenicists held women more accountable than men for the reproduction of the less “desirable” members of society. Eugenicists therefore predominately targeted women in their efforts to regulate the birth rate, to “protect” white racial health, and weed out the “defectives” of society . . .

 

After the eugenics movement was well established in the United States, it spread to Germany. California eugenicists began producing literature promoting eugenics and sterilization and sending it overseas to German scientists and medical professionals. By 1933, California had subjected more people to forceful sterilization than all other U.S. states combined. The forced sterilization program engineered by the Nazis was partly inspired by California's.

 

The Rockefeller Foundation helped develop and fund various German eugenics programs, including the one that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.

 

Upon returning from Germany in 1934, where more than 5,000 people per month were being forcibly sterilized, the California eugenics leader C. M. Goethe bragged to a colleague:

 

"You will be interested to know that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of the group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epoch-making program. Everywhere I sensed that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

 

Is this common knowledge? Am I the only one completely shocked by this?