A Question about Booze!

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps rather appropriately for The Beer Bar, two questions about booze. I have had an unopened bottle of Campari in my wine cooler for 10 years. Does anyone know if this is still drinkable? In Thailand's hot and humid climate, wines and some similar drinks like port and sherry will go

[Rogie]

I even have some bottles of jam in there.

Er, just how big is your wine cooler Fountainhall?

 

It reminds me of the days before fridges became commonplace. Britain lagged behind the States and Canada in that regard. Certainly well into the sixties many houses in Britain didn't have fridges, they had a larder. They kept food cool rather than cold and unless challenged by a rare heatwave were usually up to the task. So, the jam would have been kept in there for sure!

 

Back to your Cointreau conundrum: as it's an opened bottle, a surreptitious sip every so often will surely tell you how it's doing.

 

Campari is an interesting drink; I always poo-poo'ed it as a ladies drink until I went to visit an Italian friend. He introduced me to the Campari aperitivo - white wine with a dash of campari. Now, believe it or not, that's the first drink I ask for when we hit the bars in the evening!

 

Sorry, Fountainhall, cutting to the chase, sadly I have no idea whether your 10 year old bottle of Campari is worth hanging on to.

 

Maybe you can help me, I have a couple of bottles of champagne in the cupboard under the stairs, one is 'vintage' 1982 and the second one 'vintage' 1976. The older of the two I recall winning in a raffle in the mid-80's and promptly consigning it to the cupboard. What are the chances of a 35-year old bottle of champers being drinkable, do you reckon?

[Guest fountainhall]

Er, just how big is your wine cooler Fountainhall?

More than 20 years ago, a client encouraged me to join a wine club. I was working in Japan at the time and had no idea where I would end up in retirement. So the idea of someone else buying each year on my behalf a few cases of young wines which I selected and then laying them down in properly controlled bonded conditions (i.e. value added tax is not paid until the bottles are withdrawn) somewhere in the depths of the English countryside rather appealed to me. When in the fullness of time cases were close to their peak drinking potential, I planned to ship them over and then store them in a wine cooler till ready for consumption.

 

The beauty of this kind of arrangement in a club with well over a thousand members is that with many of the wines, the club would buy an extra case and then sample the wines every few years. So 'ready for drinking' dates would be accurately adjusted.

 

So when I moved to Bangkok, I had a cupboard large enough for a 150-bottle wine cooler built in. It made sense, I thought, to ship over 10 - 12 cases at a time (my total stock ended up around 60 cases). Hence the need for a large one. Alas, I did not realise that excise duty on wine skyrocketed along with other taxes in 1997, and has never come down. When I finally worked out the cost of the UK VAT, shipping, taxes and insurance, I realised I just could not afford to bring the wine over. So, apart from sending a number of cases to friends and saving a very few for myself, I had the rest sold. So sad, as I had purchased it with the full intention of being able to drink some really good wines in later years at a fraction of what they would otherwise cost.

 

What are the chances of a 35-year old bottle of champers being drinkable, do you reckon?

Close to nil, alas, even if it’s been stored in perfect conditions – i.e in darkness, constant lowish temperature and humidity. Heat and temperature variation are the worst enemies for champagne storage, I’m told. I am in almost the same boat. Travelling so much and having a rather nicely paid job for a while, I got into the habit of buying the occasional bottle of duty free Dom Perignon (and even a couple of times, Crystal) champagne. Once after sampling a particularly nice champagne on a Singapore Airlines flight, I purchased a couple of bottles – Charles Heidsieck 1990. I haven’t bought vintage champagne for over 15 years, but like you, I now have 5 unopened bottles at the bottom of the wine cooler (including those Heidsiecks) and no idea if they will die on opening.

 

About 3 years ago, I took a bottle of Dom P ’87 to a party. It was a much deeper colour, with a heavier taste and less bubbles than I’d expected. It tasted more like a really full-bodied chardonnay with less of the biscuity flavour. Certainly drinkable, but not immediately recognisable as a vintage champagne.

 

As to your 35 year old bottle, the best thing is to take the advice of one of my aunts – “Just sook it and see, lad. Sook it and see!”

[Guest fountainhall]

Another little anecdote about champagne and the finer things in life which I did not feel appropriate for Rogie’s reply.

 

For two years, I worked with quite a prominent international company that was expanding into Asia. Salaries were lousy, but the perks were good – e.g. we travelled up in the front of planes and stayed in some really good hotels. I reported to the regional director, a much younger, blond, handsome Australian gay guy whose particular favourite was caviar.

 

After one half-yearly directors’ meeting in London, we were at Heathrow awaiting a British Airways flight to Singapore. Once in the lounge, David asked: “Do you think they’ll have caviar in first class?” “I’m sure they will” quoth I, and said I’d go to the desk to check. The very snooty young receptionist replied in her posh accent: “Oh, I am SURE they do, sir. But I will check for you and page you later.”

 

When “later” came, with her tail between her legs she had to admit there would be no caviar on the Singapore flight. I told David. Within seconds, the entire lounge heard a scream – “FUCK!” “Fucking British Airways”, whereupon he stormed out saying he’d see me on the flight.

 

As the plane took off, he pulled out a brown paper bag. “Guess what this is?” he said with a glint in his eye. He had spent almost £300 (worth a lot more then than now) on a small tin of Beluga caviar and some Melba toast! When the flight attendants started to come round for drinks orders, he stopped one and politely but determinedly asked for 2 glasses of Krug champagne, 2 side plates, 2 knives, 2 forks, 2 patties of butter, table linen and 2 napkins. With our spread soon in front of us, the attendant with another particularly snooty accent quipped: “Ooh, you’re very lucky, sir. You have caviar and the other passengers don’t.”

 

“And you know why that is, don’t you” said David calmly, before raising his voice to full volume - “Because this fucking airline is so fucking mean it won’t serve it!” And I wasn’t even embarrassed!

[Rogie]

In Thailand's hot and humid climate, wines and some similar drinks like port and sherry will go

[TotallyOz]

Well, since I have some wine experts, I'll ask something I have always wanted to know.

 

I have always wanted to enjoy drinking wine but I don't like the taste. I drink no alcohol. No beer. No wine. No hard liquor. Nothing. I just can't seem to enjoy the taste. Years back I tried to get into the habit of finding a wine I would like and bought a different bottle every day for the BF and me and I never found one I like. Well, there were some German Reisling wines I liked. They were sweet and I liked that, but could never finish a full glass.

 

Also, I do like very nice champagne but can't drink a lot either.

 

I have never been drunk. I would like to try it one day.

 

What would you recommend for me to be able to get into enjoying wines? It is something I have always wanted. I send wine monthly to family in USA via online but never partake in sharing. Any advice? (other than give up trying)

[Guest fountainhall]

I've seen bottles of wine on sale in a store in a town in Isarn I often visit just lying there looking pretty but the shop is completely open so totally at the mercy of Thailand's high temperatures. Last time I looked the prices had been reduced, still not cheap though. I suspect the owner is sitting on the equivalent of several cases of vinegar!

I'll take a large bet that you're right! Wine must be stored lying on its side or at an angle so that the cork is completely covered by the wine inside. If not, in hot climates the cork will shrink and begin to let air into the bottle. Good wine also needs to be stored in a constant low temperature so it can mature slowly in the bottle. That wine in Isarn would only last a few weeks before deteriorating, no matter if it is a first growth claret or cheap plonk.

 

Would you trade that life for a cellar of crusty old wines?

Frankly, I wouldn't trade my life for anything. Sure I made a helluva lot more mistakes than my wine adventure, but even if my life were to end tomorrow, I hope there'd be a smile on my face (sadly not a drunken one)!

 

I've had a few bottles and whilst the wine is 'ok' I am sure it must have lost much of its charm

Sadly true. I really do advise buying a small wine cooler, even for just a couple of dozen bottles. They are a really good investment if you like drinking good wine. Even cheaper wine will keep longer and taste better.

 

It is my birthday next week so I think I will go for broke. I'll chill 'em both and if the first one ain't any good I'll open the second one. I'll have other booze on back-up of course.

That's what I plan to do. Have a great birthday - and I hope I'm wrong about the vintage being vinegar!

 

Now you've gone and made me really jealous for a lifestyle I can only dream about.

Distant memories now, alas. Haven't tasted any caviar since! After those two years, I had to get used to the back of the bus again. And once you have experienced first class travel, the back of the plane experience is quite a jolt. Thanks to air miles and occasional work for clients, long hauls are now mostly business class, which is almost better than first-class 20 years ago - apart from there being no caviar and the quality of the champagne. But I'm not complaining!

[Guest anonone]

Well, since I have some wine experts, I'll ask something I have always wanted to know.

 

I have always wanted to enjoy drinking wine but I don't like the taste. I drink no alcohol. No beer. No wine. No hard liquor. Nothing. I just can't seem to enjoy the taste. Years back I tried to get into the habit of finding a wine I would like and bought a different bottle every day for the BF and me and I never found one I like. Well, there were some German Reisling wines I liked. They were sweet and I liked that, but could never finish a full glass.

 

Also, I do like very nice champagne but can't drink a lot either.

 

I have never been drunk. I would like to try it one day.

 

What would you recommend for me to be able to get into enjoying wines? It is something I have always wanted. I send wine monthly to family in USA via online but never partake in sharing. Any advice? (other than give up trying)

 

Hi Michael.

I am not a wine expert, but something popped into my mind when reading your question. You might want to try making a wine spritzer of sorts by mixing some white wine with some sprite or soda water and putting over ice.

 

It will dilute down the wine taste for you to become more slowly adjusted to it...and actually makes a pretty nice, cool drink for the Thailand heat.

 

It obviously will overpower any fine wine complexity, so not a way to "enjoy" wine. But it may help you develop a "taste" for wine.

 

Let me know what you think.

[TotallyOz]

Hi Michael.

I am not a wine expert, but something popped into my mind when reading your question. You might want to try making a wine spritzer of sorts by mixing some white wine with some sprite or soda water and putting over ice.

 

It will dilute down the wine taste for you to become more slowly adjusted to it...and actually makes a pretty nice, cool drink for the Thailand heat.

 

It obviously will overpower any fine wine complexity, so not a way to "enjoy" wine. But it may help you develop a "taste" for wine.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

I think it sounds good. I'll give it a try for sure. Thanks.

[Guest fountainhall]

I have never been drunk. I would like to try it one day.

 

What would you recommend for me to be able to get into enjoying wines? It is something I have always wanted.

I don't recommend getting drunk on any alcohol. That's something you do as a student and in your 20s. Thereafter, the aching headaches and throwing up are too much to put up with. Just develop a nice interest in wine and it will considerably enhance your enjoyment of food, especially good food.

 

I have loved drinking wine since I first really had a chance to taste it with meals in my early 20s. I am far from an expert, but have developed my likes and dislikes over the years. And during the dozen or so years when I was buying wine by the case, I learned quite a bit from the descriptions sent out by the wine club.

 

One of the problems for those who do not drink wine and know little about it is the almost frightening array of choice, added to the rather strange rituals those who know a bit more go through

[TotallyOz]

Thank you so much for the recommendation. I cannot tell you how many times I've tried to become a wine connoisseur. I guess if I were into better food, I might enjoy wine more. I don't think wine will go to McDonald's or Burger King.

 

That being said, I do like to cook and I do like to experiment. And I am always offered wine and champagne when I fly. From now on, I'm going to say yes every time I'm asked if I would like a glass of wine. This would at least get me started in knowing what I like and what I don't like.

 

Thanks again for your advice and I will let you know how things go as I progress in learning to develop a taste for wine.

[Guest fountainhall]

I wouldn't personally drink wine with a McDonald's or Burger King, but there's no reason why you can't if you want to. The grease from the burger and the salt on the fries will kill some of the taste, but with a nice heavy red - perhaps a shiraz (name of grape) from Australia or Chateauneuf-du-Pape from France - it might be worth a try!

 

Chateauneuf-du-Pape may sound a convoluted name for a wine, but it illustrates another reason why wine is enjoyable. You learn all sorts of interesting - and sometimes frivolous - things. Literally, the phrase means New Castle (home) of the Pope. It refers to a 70-year period in the 14th century when a series of Popes left their traditional home in Rome and set up Court in Avignon in France. Wine continues to be made in that area today, and the wine bottles even have the papal crossed keys embossed in the glass! Drop that into the conversation at your next dinner outing and you become an instant expert

 

Only one further piece of advice. When you start drinking different wines, it's often near impossible to remember what the last one tasted like - or even what it was. It's well worth jotting very brief notes into your iPad, like name of wine, type of grape, where it's from, how you enjoyed it, what sort of taste you experienced etc. And remember, your sense of taste is vastly different at 35,000 ft. On a plane, the taste sensation is dulled, so airlines select quite strongly flavoured wines which will taste very different in a restaurant at ground level. Just to confuse you!

[Rogie]

Only one further piece of advice. When you start drinking different wines, it's often near impossible to remember what the last one tasted like - or even what it was. It's well worth jotting very brief notes into your iPad, like name of wine, type of grape, where it's from, how you enjoyed it, what sort of taste you experienced etc. And remember, your sense of taste is vastly different at 35,000 ft. On a plane, the taste sensation is dulled, so airlines select quite strongly flavoured wines which will taste very different in a restaurant at ground level. Just to confuse you!

That's a really good idea to make a few notes. I never have and as a result I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as I would have been had I done so.

 

I hadn't thought about the altitude effect on the taste buds before. That started ringing a few alarm bells, hence my reply to Michael below.

 

And I am always offered wine and champagne when I fly. From now on, I'm going to say yes every time I'm asked if I would like a glass of wine. This would at least get me started in knowing what I like and what I don't like.

That's great you are intending to do that, but I just wonder if drinking on the plane is a good idea. For two reasons. Firstly, the effect Fountainhall describes and secondly the effect the wine may have on your good self. Alcohol is dehydrating and unless accompanied, or followed, by plenty of water, might adversely affect your experience, particularly if you suddenly decide you like it and have a second go, so overwhelming your virgin liver and making you feel a bit tipsy. How about waiting until you are in a restaurant with some knowledgeable wine-drinking friends, let one of them do the ordering and when offered accept a small glass. That way the wine as chosen ought to complement the food nicely, in the way Fountainhall mentions. Alternatively, next time you have a dinner party at your place, ask your friends to 'bring a bottle', hopefully a bottle will materialise that goes well with whatever food you are serving!

 

I may well have been overcautious in my thoughts regarding in-flight drinking - as Fountainhall is a far more frequent flyer than I am maybe he'll comment.

 

I think Anonone's suggestion of the spritzer is an excellent one. As he says it will make a nice refreshing drink on a hot day and you needn't spend a lot of money on the wine you use for it. You could have the spritzer as a fall-back option either in the restaurant or at home should you find a glass of neat wine just too overpowering.

[Guest fountainhall]

I may well have been overcautious in my thoughts regarding in-flight drinking

Rogie has summed it up well. It's not just the reduced oxygen in the air which makes you feel the effects of alcohol faster, its also the lack of moisture. Both result in alcohol entering the bloodstream a lot quicker. Generally, one glass of wine in a plane will have the effect of two on the ground. That said, I can usually manage a vodka tonic and then a couple of glasses with a meal before getting some sleep. Others I know can knock back more, whilst some who are dedicated drinkers on the ground, won't touch a drop when flying! But moderation is definitely advised.

 

A footnote to the notes you will write on your iPad. In addition to name of the wine, name of the grape variety, the country, region it comes from and its colour (but not under fluorescent light, please), your notes should include a little summary of the ways the wine impacts on all your senses, from sight and smell to taste, aftertaste, and the overall impression that the wine leaves behind after you've finished. Most cheaper wines really have little aftertaste. Better ones, like the famous sweet wine I mentioned earlier, will leave you savouring the taste and flavours for minutes afterwards.

 

Another thought is to check when there are wine tasting sessions in Bangkok. I know there is a wine society here and I am sure they have such sessions from time to time. At these, you have the chance to taste either many different types of wine or different wines from the same region, for example. This won't get you drunk, because after tasting each wine, you then spit it out rather than swallowing it.

[Guest thaiworthy]

In addition to name of the wine, name of the grape variety, the country, region it comes from and its colour (but not under fluorescent light, please)

 

Why not? That might be difficult to do in some places, especially in Thailand. Even in the rest of the world, incandescent lighting is being slowly phased out. Given that you have the right light, what color should one be looking for in red and white wine?

 

I am not really much of a wine drinker, being diabetic and a bariatric patient, but I find all these details absolutely fascinating. I am probably just as wistful in desire as Michael is, but medically I am at a disadvantage. Having never been to wine-tasting functions before, I didn't know people actually "spit out" their beverage. Yuck! How does one expectorate wine spittle in a dignified fashion while hobnobbing with the gentry?

[Guest fountainhall]

Given that you have the right light, what color should one be looking for in red and white wine?

Fluorescent lighting is more harsh and so adds more of its own colour to a wine. Ideally, you should look at it against a white tablecloth or even just a piece of plain white paper.

 

When you taste wine you are given not much more than a couple of mouthfuls in the glass. Colour is the first thing you look for, and it varies so much according to the types of grape and wine that it would take hours to go into detail.

 

Generally speaking, the main thing to ensure is that the wine is clear and not dull or cloudy. This ensures the wine has not been contaminated. In older and better quality red wines, there will always be some sediment at the bottom of the bottle (that's why the bottles have an indented base so the sediment should settle around that!). But good red wines should be decanted carefully in advance so that the sediment stays at the bottom of the bottle and does not reach your glass.

 

White wines can be so pale as to be almost white with a light yellowish tinge. Younger white wines will usually be very pale. The popular chardonnay grape, though, gives its wine a deeper yellowish hue and more "buttery" flavour. Older wines go darker. Sweet wines tend to be an even deeper yellow with some orange mixed to the colour. Beware of a brownish tinge, though. That usually means air has got in through the cork and the wine has become heavier with a slightly rancid taste. Better to use for cooking!

 

The colour of red wines tends to give you more clues since their colour changes more according to vintage. Recently bottled wine from Bordeaux or Burgundy, for example, should be a gorgeous dark, rich purplish-red. I mentioned Chateauneuf-du-Pape earlier. Its colour can be so intense as to be almost reddish black. As red wine ages, it will lose the richness of colour and become more reddish-brown. As you tilt the glass to look at the colour, you will also get hints, as there can be colour changes only visible around the rim. At the centre of the glass, it may still be that nice purple-red, but at the rim it may be paler and browner. This indicates an older vintage.

 

Having never been to wine-tasting functions before, I didn't know people actually "spit out" their beverage.

It also surprised me the first time I came across it. But when you think about it, it's a near necessity. Many wine tastings are blind tastings, where people can taste dozens of different wines without seeing the bottles. This happens all the time with airlines when their wine panels are deciding which wines to select for the inflight wine lists. If they were to swallow, they’d be pissed long before they were half way through!

 

Serious wine tipplers can get more than enough information from the little rituals during the tasting process before swallowing. For example, everything tastes subtly different, especially wine, if it is in the front of the mouth, at the sides of the tongue and then nearer the back of the tongue. So they check how the different components in the wine react. They also suck in air since the taste changes when it hits the air after years in the bottle. Better wines generally need to be opened an hour or more before being drunk. The sucking of the air through the wine accelerates that process and experienced tasters notice the differences.

 

They will then spit the wine into small buckets placed on little tables beside each taster. Thereafter, they have to cleanse their palates so there is no chance of the taste lingering before they hit the next wine. They will always drink some water (and spit that out too if they wish) and eat small pieces of white bread between each wine.

 

Yuck! How does one expectorate wine spittle in a dignified fashion while hobnobbing with the gentry?

Worry not! When you are invited to that hi-so dinner, you will not be expected to sample the wine before it is served. Either the servants will have done that before you arrive for dinner (!) - or a small glass will be poured for your host to taste. He will then decide (and then swallow it). Since he will have selected the wine, he’ll have a pretty good idea how it should taste. So no need to worry that you will let the side down.

 

If you really want to impress the guests sitting next to you, you can always take a sniff of the wine, roll it around the glass and take a small sip. Even if you haven’t a clue about wine, you can always use a phrase a colleague of mine liked to use to bring the high-so crowd down to his level. After waiting a few moments whilst he was "considering" what he had just tasted, he’d say in a very deliberate tone -

 

“Mmmmnnn. Ahhhhhh! Most definitely! No question about it! A very serious little wine - but with just a hint of cheekiness. Don't you agree?”

 

Since most of his neighbours would have as little clue as he, they'd inevitably say how right he was!

[Guest thaiworthy]

[Guest fountainhall]

And your neighbours would marvel at your wit as well as your knowledge! Until the one stick-in-the-mud turns to you and asks: "And would you agree that the '67 was more of a rascal than the '75?" Now it's your turn to wonder who's bluffing whom!

 

We’ve mentioned food, but I also believe wine enhances travel. Can you imagine travelling around France without sampling the local wines and noticing the differences in both landscape and wine? Or California? Chile? New Zealand? Australia? Certainly, my trips to Italy would have been less enjoyable had I not been able to sample a couple of local wines with dinner. Plus there is a huge folklore of wine stories that just make life more fun!

 

One tells of a bishop in the 12th century who was rather too fond of the good things in life, especially wine and women. Since the Popes at that time often had children of their own, the priest’s womanizing did not raise eyebrows. His constantly being drunk, though, was less acceptable. So the Pope summoned him to Rome.

 

Not in the slightest concerned, the bishop sent his servant on ahead to suss out the inns with the best wines. He would then mark on the door of that inn the word “Est!” – This is it! Eventually the priest set out on his long trip to see His Holiness. At the first town, he found the inn with “Est!” on the door, and was delighted at his servant’s selection. Same with Inn No. 2, and No. 3, and No. 4 . . .

 

When he failed to appear in Rome at the appointed time, the Pope sent out a messenger to try and find him. He was soon located not far from Rome, rolling around drunk with the most beatific smile on his face. This inn in the Montefiascone region served the most marvelous of all the wines he had tasted, and so he had decided just to stay. Curious, the messenger noted on the door of the Inn the words “Est! Est!! Est!!!”

 

Not only is Est! Est!! Est!!! still being made, it is one of the few wines in the world whose ancient origins are known.

 

[Guest fountainhall]

A final rounding off on the subject of wine. Returning from Hong Kong on Emirates last week, they served two whites and two reds. The one I chose had this description in the wine list. It was an Australian red wine made from a mix of two grapes

[ChristianPFC]

I have always wanted to enjoy drinking wine but I don't like the taste.

I don't understand this. Why do you want to enjoy something you don't like? You wouldn't start smoking and try to enjoy it as a non-smoker or get a tattoo and try to like it.

 

I drink no alcohol. No beer. No wine. No hard liquor. Nothing. I just can't seem to enjoy the taste.

Same for me. When in Thailand, I sometimes drink up to one bottle of beer (because it costs the same as any other drink in bars), but then I need something different.

 

I have never been drunk. I would like to try it one day.

I have been drunk once, and that's enough for my life. As I don't like the taste of most alcoholic drinks I tried, I figured out that it's better to drink a small amount of something with a high contents of alcohol than a lot of something with a low contents. I overdid it, ending in coordination problems and vomiting. However the effects of feeling happy as described by others failed to appear, I just had problems keeping my balance, but my mind was completely clear.

 

I like grapes, but I don't like wine or raisins. Making wine or raisins is turning something good (grapes) into something bad.

[Guest fountainhall]

Making wine . . . is turning something good (grapes) into something bad.

Tell that to the medical profession which is now in agreement that a glass of red wine each day is good for you! I fully understand your sentiment, but given the rate at which people are turning to wine as their beverage of choice, I suggest you will soon be increasingly in the minority. I, too, love grapes. And I love wine. The two are not mutually exclusive, thankfully!

[kokopelli]

Michael; if you really want to appreciate wine, the best way is to try a fine white burgundy such as Le Montrachet or a fine red such as Romanee-Conti. If you like it then you will be spoiled forever. However if you just want to get drunk then I recommend a bottle or two of any of the Kokopelli wines;