The 500 baht virgin

[TotallyOz]

I met a guy last night new to Pattaya. It was his second day in the city. He was sweet, spoke good English and very charming.

 

The night before I met him it was his first night. He had never been to Pattaya and had only heard it was a place to make money. He came alone and found a bar. He was offed by a guy who is known to frequent the bars very early looking for fresh guys just

[firecat69]

How right you are GT. There are far too many visitors and residents that think of the boys as merchendise rather then as human beings.

 

The job they have is not an easy one and most try to do a good job. As in any business there are boys who give as little as possible. This goes with the territory and happens all over the world where the prices are much higher and it is much harder to find a sweet and willing companion. But the Thai boys are special in most cases and will treat the farang far better then some deserve.

 

It is up to all of us who care about the boys to speak out when we can so that fewer boys have to experience what this poor boy did. Those who should feel ashamed ,will not ,unless we keep reminding them that this is not the way a decent human being should behave!!!!!!

[Guest jomtien]

I hope that the majority of them are able to find the farangs with a good heart instead of the Cheap Charlie who is only looking to be the first and then brag about it the next day at the beach about how they got away with a 500 baht night. Shame.

 

I take great offense to the term "Cheap Charlie". This is an affront to all who proudly wear that noble name. Let's call them something else. Perhaps, Miserable Michaels?

 

 

 

[Guest Hedda]

Sorry guys, your hearts may be in the right place, but your attempts to create a bordello hero out of a "cheap charlie farang" story is totally misplaced in my view.

 

First, you seem to accept without question the version of the "sob story" told to you as accurate, while admitting that you never met this young man before and obviously have no basis to judge his credibility about losing his virginity in such great pain - at a discount price. In that connection, when's the last time you met a farm boy 2 days off the bus who speaks "good english."

 

That takes a leap of faith I'm not prepared to make from any new boy or mamasan account of what really happened, especially since the boy who you say was "under great pain" losing his virginity the night before, was apparently back hustling in the bar the next night.

 

Before you start to feel sorry for young men of legal age who lose their virginity after voluntarily travelling to Pattaya to sell sex, you might consider the plight of all the underage kids who also work in those same bars , and who lose their virginity every night of the week, albeit at various prices. If you care so much for the boys, what have you done about that ?

 

Being generous with a tip doesn't mean you are any less an exploiter of young men than someone who is working from a smaller bank account. If you think that offing a guy for oral gratification, rather then anal penetration, puts you in some superior position to judge the antics of other johns or charlies, you are confusing anatomy with morality.

 

Commerical sex is a a tough racket, not matter how much honey or money you apply to relieve your own self- image at being a part of it. People tend to lose their virginity when they become hookers, sometimes at bargain prices. Some of the gratuitous comments made above about caring for the boys strikes me as fretting over the gilding of one pistil, while leaving the lillies of the field to fend for themselves.

 

As I said above, I don't question your good intentions in making these comments, but there's an element of fantasy about them that's unreal on a gay message board like this. There are several streets already paved here in Pattaya with such good intentions and they still lead straight to Hell - or Heaven - depending on your perspective.

.

[Guest wowpow]

There are bars in Sunee Plaza where they charge 200 baht to off a boy and the tip for the boy expected is 500 baht. I have been told this by the boys in these bars.

 

Is a virgin extra? I don't know. A chatty taxi driver in Bangkok told me that life was very unfair. He said "the price for a virgin woman is 5000 baht and for a man only 3000 baht". Later he told me I could de- virginise him for 3000 baht.

 

Whatever the morals of ths situation a tip of 500 baht for 4 hours and causing a fair bit of discomfort seems ungenerous.

 

I do know several guys who look for bar boys who are new. They say that they soon get spoilt by the work. I don't totally agree as I favour more mature guys and know some that have been working for over ten years and are affectionate and a delight to be with.

 

[TotallyOz]

If you think that offing a guy for oral gratification, rather then anal penetration, puts you in some superior position to judge the antics of other johns or charlies, you are confusing anatomy with morality.

 

No, I am not. I have never claimed superiority over anyone. I have friends that pay 500 baht to guys all the time. The same guys keep seeing them. But, I do think that there are different prices for different acts. We can agree to disagree but my mind won't be changed on this point. I have too many friends who are high end hookers in 1st world countries. They always charge different prices for different things as well as different amounts of time. If a boy is given 500 baht for a short time room upstairs in a bar and is back in 30 min and then given the same for over 4 hours of time, yes, there is a problem there as well. IMHO.

 

First, you seem to accept without question the version of the "sob story" told to you as accurate, while admitting that you never met this young man before and obviously have no basis to judge his credibility about losing his virginity in such great pain - at a discount price.

 

As proven in the past, I am gullible. I like to believe people at their word. Hard to do in Thailand. But, I did believe this guy.

 

I take great offense to the term "Cheap Charlie". This is an affront to all who proudly wear that noble name. Let's call them something else. Perhaps, Miserable Michaels?

 

haha. I much prefer Cheap Charlie. Rolls off my tounge easy.

 

Whatever the morals of ths situation a tip of 500 baht for 4 hours and causing a fair bit of discomfort seems ungenerous.

 

That was really my main point. I also hate when a new guy is not taken by the manager of a bar and told what to expect and what his rights are. It is not up to Farang. It is also up to boy.

 

There are bars in Sunee Plaza where they charge 200 baht to off a boy and the tip for the boy expected is 500 baht. I have been told this by the boys in these bars.

 

I have been told this as well. I still think the minimum should be 1,000 baht. But, that is just me and I know the majority disagree with me.

 

There are far too many visitors and residents that think of the boys as merchendise rather then as human beings.

 

It is up to all of us who care about the boys to speak out when we can so that fewer boys have to experience what this poor boy did. Those who should feel ashamed ,will not ,unless we keep reminding them that this is not the way a decent human being should behave!!!!!!

 

You really said what I wanted to say in a much more clear way. Thanks.

[Gaybutton]

There is nothing new in these arguments. Many still insist upon applying western thinking to what goes on in Thailand. Some view these boys as nothing but human garbage, whores and liars, to be used as cheaply as possible and worthy of nothing but contempt. Some view them as God's gift to the planet, to be worshipped and garlands of flowers strewn in their path. Obviously, most view them as something in between those extremes.

 

One thing I note that is usually left out of these arguments is how we "farang" are viewed by the boys. What are we to them? That ought to generate a comment or two . . .

 

 

[Guest Hedda]

One thing I note that is usually left out of these arguments is how we "farang" are viewed by the boys. What are we to them?

 

I don't think you want to go there, GB. As Beauty once said to the Beast: "Some things are better left unsaid. "

 

[Guest wowpow]

My gosh! Thank goodness that there is no rule that all posts have to be about something 'new'. The forums would be very quiet.

 

Actually I think that this is new in the respect that GT's suggests a fair Price for a Virgin. Any suggestions? I know that some customers barter for a reluctant guy to surrender his back door. I have heard of 3000 to 5000 baht being offfered.

 

There is a sort of suggestion that a new to the scene virgin should be high priced and an old lag a low price - possibly with a sliding scale inbetween?

 

There certainly are customers around who value new flesh and some Mamasans get on the phone to them when an attractive new boy starts. Some friends of mine go into a frenzy when they hear of an attractive new guy in town.

 

I am tired of rushing to this and that bar when people tell me that there is a handsome new muscular guy working there - prime culprit LMTU - and they are never - well hardly ever - there when I go.

 

I also find that my pre-conceptions of male prostitutes was formed by the cinema and bum boys on Piccadilly. This was that they were low forms of life smelly and spotty and probably drug addicted and carrying social diseases.

 

What an eye opener Thailand turned out to be. Gorgeous guys, immaculately clean and tidy, affectionate, charming and ever smiling.

 

[Gaybutton]

I don't think you want to go there, GB. As Beauty once said to the Beast: "Some things are better left unsaid. "

 

I'm not going there, for sure. I opened the door for others to go there, if they want to do that. But this is one time I'm going to just sit back, relax, and let everyone else do the arguing. Have a good time, guys . . .

[Guest gonefishing]

I have friends that pay 500 baht to guys all the time. The same guys keep seeing them. ... I have too many friends who are high end hookers in 1st world countries. ... As proven in the past, I am gullible. ... I still think the minimum should be 1,000 baht. .

 

As I recall, it is only about a month since the post concerning a highly proficient and experienced handyman / electrician / plumber who charged about 100 baht per hour - whom you described as "wonderful" and whose charges you described as "reasonable". When comparing costs with those in "1st world countries", why differentiate between one job and another when it comes to paying the bill?

 

As for being "gullible", I think Hedda has got it right - the chances of a boy straight out of Isaan, with "excellent English", still being "sweet" and "charming" and being back in the bar the next night after being topped for the first time, ready for more, are simply non-existent. First time in Pattaya maybe, but probably straight from Patpong rather than straight from Isaan.

 

Many still insist upon applying western thinking to what goes on in Thailand. Some view these boys as nothing but human garbage, whores and liars, to be used as cheaply as possible and worthy of nothing but contempt. Some view them as God's gift to the planet, to be worshipped and garlands of flowers strewn in their path. Obviously, most view them as something in between those extremes.

 

One thing I note that is usually left out of these arguments is how we "farang" are viewed by the boys. What are we to them? That ought to generate a comment or two . . .

 

GB, quite right: they are not only seen as something in between the two extremes, but most are somewhere in between, with a few who are "whores and liars" and a few who are "God's gift". I feel sorry for those who only meet the former, while those of us fortunate to be with the latter, for a short or long time (four years together in my and my b/f's case) are indeed truly fortunate.

 

What do the boys think of the "farang"? Apparently much the same as we think of them - some good, some bad, some indifferent, and some as a source of endless amusement! The latter particularly applies to the "dtao Sunee" and "dtao Dongtan" - the Sunee and Jomtien tortoises!!

 

[TotallyOz]

As I recall, it is only about a month since the post concerning a highly proficient and experienced handyman / electrician / plumber who charged about 100 baht per hour - whom you described as "wonderful" and whose charges you described as "reasonable". When comparing costs with those in "1st world countries", why differentiate between one job and another when it comes to paying the bill?

 

When I am in NYC, rest assured I pay much more for a working boy than I do for a handyman. I would say about 250 USD more per hour. However, many of the guys I have met are also handmen so sometimes I kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

As for being "gullible", I think Hedda has got it right - the chances of a boy straight out of Isaan, with "excellent English", still being "sweet" and "charming" and being back in the bar the next night after being topped for the first time, ready for more, are simply non-existent. First time in Pattaya maybe, but probably straight from Patpong rather than straight from Isaan.

 

Nope. I know green when I see it. Plus, my guys spent time with him and got to know him. They are a very good judge of other boys.

 

What do the boys think of the "farang"? Apparently much the same as we think of them - some good, some bad, some indifferent, and some as a source of endless amusement! The latter particularly applies to the "dtao Sunee" and "dtao Dongtan" - the Sunee and Jomtien tortoises!!

 

I think you are quite right. They talk about us just as much as we talk about them. They know where we live, what we do, how well we tip, what we like, the size of our pocketbook and dick, the exboyfriends names, what we like to eat, etc. If you think that only we like to be chatty and catty, you arer wrong. They are talking the talk and walking the walk just as much as we are.

 

I am tired of rushing to this and that bar when people tell me that there is a handsome new muscular guy working there - prime culprit LMTU - and they are never - well hardly ever - there when I go.

 

My dear WowPow. when LMTU tells you about a boy, you need to go fast to get him. He has a great eye for the special ones. But, he also can't keep it to himself. Most of the time, I get his text and rush there ASAP. You live a few blocks further away than I do. By the time you get there, they ae already back swimming in my pool.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

There is an old story about a guy who goes into a bar and sees an beautiful woman sitting alone. He starts to talk to her then after awhile he asks, "Would you go to bed with me for $1000?"

She says "Sure".

He asks, "would you go to bed with me for $10?"

She says, "No, what do you think I am?"

He says, " I already know what you are, now we are just talking about the price."

 

Take it for what it is.

[Guest luvthai]

I agree 500 baht for 4 hours and hurting the boy was way out of line. The boy has the option of reporting this to the bar manager and alerting ohter boys in the bar to this. It doesn't take long for the boys to avoid farangs like this. I have even heard of boys getting even by other means so int he long run the farang may hurt from this also.

[Guest wowpow]

THe Virgin

 

I have been mulling this over a tad and several questions spring to mind other than the customer gave the boy pain and a smallish payment.

 

What did the boy expect to happen when he went with a customer?

 

Is it or should it be up to the bar's Mamasan to give the boys some advice such as:

 

* If you don't want to have your back door entered you can say 'no' especially if the customer is very big

 

* If you get a lousy tip you are allowed to ask for a bit more

 

* Advice on safe sex

 

I must say the Gaythailand seems to have a very good heart - Jai Dee - and is kind, enjoys fun and generous - maybe too generous but then he seems to have ooodles of disposable.

 

lvdkeyes - I have always heard that tale recounted as Churchill at a dinner party which went something like

 

WC "Madam might you sleep with me for 50,000 pounds"

 

Woman " Sir I do believe I would"

 

WC "Madam would you sleep with me for one pound

 

Woman "Sir what do you think I am".

 

WC " Madam we have agreed that, now we are haggling over the price!"

[Guest Hedda]

. . . a very good heart - Jai Dee - and is kind, enjoys fun and generous - maybe too generous ... quote]

 

It's what Khun PT Barnum allegedly once said: "There's a jai dee born every minute."

 

 

 

 

 

[TotallyOz]

P. T. Barnum Never Did Say

"There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"

By R. J. Brown

Editor-in-Chief

 

P. T. Barnum is most often associated with the circus sideshow and the display of freaks. While this is true, he is also the founding force behind one of America's most famous circuses: Barnum & Bailey Circus. Barnum is also affiliated with the famous quote "There's a sucker born every minute." History, unfortunately, has misdirected this quotation. Barnum never did say it. Actually, it was said by his competitor. Here's the incredible story.

 

From 1866 until 1868 Mr. George Hull, of Binghamton, New York studied archeology and paleontology. Over this period of time Hull contemplated how to pull off a hoax. It seems that many an evangelist at the time had been preaching that there were giants in the earth. In June of 1868 Hull traveled back to Fort Dodge, Iowa where there was a gypsum quarry he had recalled seeing two years earlier. Even then, he had noticed that the dark blue streaks running through the soft lime rock resembled human veins. Realizing this its appearance was tailor-made for his hoax and it was easy to carve, Hull hired a group of quarry workers to cut off a slab measuring twelve feet long, four feet wide and two feet thick.

 

In November, Hull had his gypsum wrapped in canvas and hoisted onto a wagon. Since the nearest railroad was forty miles away, it proved to be a long, difficult job. He then had the slab of gypsum shipped by rail to Chicago where he had hired a stone cutter named Edward Burghardt to carve a giant. Burghardt and his two assistants, were sworn to secrecy and agreed to work on the piece in a secluded barn during their off hours and Sundays. The instructions were to carve the giant as if it had died in great pain, and the final result was an eerie figure, slightly twisted in apparent agony, with his right hand clutching his stomach. All of the details were there; toenails, fingernails, nostrils, sex organs and so forth. Even a needlepoint mallet was used to add authentic-looking skin pores. When the carving was done, sulfuric acid and ink were used to make the figure look aged.

 

The giant finished, Hull then had the figure shipped by rail to the farm of William Newell, his cousin, located near the town of Cardiff, New York. In the dead of night, Hull, Newell and his oldest son buried the giant between the barn and house. They were instructed to say nothing about it and that Hull would let them know in about a year of what the next stage was.

 

Luckily, about six months later, on another farm near the Newell's, some million year-old fossil bones were dug up. Newspapers around the country reported the finding. Hull was filled with glee in reading the accounts.

 

True to his word, one year after burying the giant, Hull sent word to his cousin on October 15, 1869, to start the next stage of the hoax. Newell hired two laborers to dig a new well near his home. Newell directed them to the exact spot he wanted the well dug and went back into the house to wait -- anxiously. Sure enough, well into the day, the two laborers rushed up to the house to announce their discovery: a giant turned to stone! The laborers and both Newells carefully excavated the area surrounding the giant.

 

News of this amazing discovery spread throughout the valley and soon wagon loads of neighbors streamed into Newell's farm to see the giant. By mid-afternoon, Newell erected a tent around the "grave" and started charging 25 cent admission. Two days later, the Syracuse Journal (New York) printed an article about the discovery. Being greedy, Newell raised the price to 50 cents, and a stage coach company made four round trips a day from Syracuse to the Newell farm. Thousands came every day. Among the visitors were clergymen, college professors and distinguished scientists. Before long, the expert's opinions split into two theories; one side claimed it was a true fossilized human giant and the other side pronounced it an authentic ancient statue. No one asserted that it was a fake!

 

About ten days after the discovery, and about the time the Cardiff Giant, as the papers had named it, started receiving national attention, Hull sold two-thirds interest in the giant for $30,000 to a five-man syndicate in Syracuse, the head of which was a banker named David Hannum. The syndicate moved the giant to an exhibition hall in Syracuse and raised the admission price to a dollar a head. Unknown to them, P. T. Barnum sent an agent to see the giant and make an assessment. The particular Sunday the representative saw the giant, the crowds were abnormally large -- about 3,000 people. The agent wired the news back to Barnum and Barnum instructed him to make an offer of $50,000 to buy it. Hannum turned his offer down.

 

The Cardiff Giant was the most talked about exhibit in the nation. Barnum wanted the giant to display himself while the attraction was still a hot topic of the day. Rather than upping his offer, Barnum hired a crew of workers to carve a giant of his own. Within a short time, Barnum unveiled HIS giant and proclaimed that Hannum had sold Barnum the original giant and that Hannum was now displaying a fake! Thousands of people flocked to see Barnum's giant. Many newspapers carried the version that Barnum had given them; that is, Hannum's giant was a fake and Barnum's was authentic. It is at this point that Hannum -- NOT BARNUM -- was quoted as saying "There's a sucker born every minute." Hannum, still under the impression that HIS giant was authentic, was referring to the thousands of "fools" that paid money to see Barnum's fake and not his authentic one.

 

Hannum brought a lawsuit against Barnum for calling his giant a fake. When it came to trial, Hull stepped forward and confessed that the Cardiff Giant was a hoax and the entire story. The judge ruled that Barnum could not be sued for calling Hannum's giant a fake since it was a fake after all. Thereafter, Hannum's name was lost to history while Barnum was left with the misplaced stigma of being the one to say "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

 

 

He is also to have allegedly have said:

 

 

[Gaybutton]

P. T. Barnum Never Did Say

"There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"

 

Play it again, Sam.

[Guest mauRICE]

Nope. I know green when I see it. Plus, my guys spent time with him and got to know him. They are a very good judge of other boys.

 

Assuming of course that "my boys" (sic) are not in on the deal, knowing their farang's obsession with becoming a "bordello hero". Why risk losing an entire pie to the freshly-popped cherry, when they could do with a smaller slice?

[TotallyOz]

Assuming of course that "my boys" (sic) are not in on the deal, knowing their farang's obsession with becoming a "bordello hero". Why risk losing an entire pie to the freshly-popped cherry, when a smaller slice will still do?

 

Just curious: Are you related to Cruella Deville?

[Guest mauRICE]

I had to dab the corners of my eyes with a hanky after reading some of the posts on this thread and was about to break out in a sob before Hedda had to butt in with her insensitive diatribe, as usual. Hedda needs a good whipping!

 

Frankly, I think we should take these Cheap Charlie farang out to the backyard and beat the hell out of 'em. Yeah, nobody can beat a Cheap Charlie harder than a a jai dii farang. The Thais would never do it themselves for they've only got love and respect for all farang.

 

Hell, these delicate, sweet Thai guys, even though they've reached adulthood, and are doing what they do out of their own volition, need to be protected at all costs by the swarthy, gallant farang with a big gut, errr...heart. That's YOUuuuuuuu.

 

After all, they can't possibly know what they're getting themselves into, having been recruited to work in the bars by cousin Aik from the same village, who didn't give them a clue. They've only heard that the business of prostitution is steeped in gentility and refinement, with potential "suitors" all coming from fine families, with bodies like Paradon's, faces like Jude Law's and the composure and dignity of Fitzwilliam Darcy.

 

Then they come to the big city and get the shock of their lives. Their punters, er...suitors, don't resemble Paradorn or Jude Law - they don't even look like John Edwards. Nevertheless, being the paragons of sexual altruism that they are, these delicate, sweet, doe-eyed Thai boys are prepared to sleep with men who may be old enough to be their fathers or grandfathers, may be out of shape and almost always have the prospensity for talking everyone around them to sleep. The boys understand that all that is in a day's work - the important thing is that the farang has a 'good heart'.

 

So when a boy and a farang come to an agreement as two adults in a congenial environment where sex acts are bartered for Baht, then we must assume that the farang is taking advantage and the boy can't walk away. He is hungry, new in town and has no money to go home. Thais tend to live by themselves you see, and would never share their food and largesse with their friends and family. The boy is all alone in the big city with no friends from his bar or from other bars.

 

This is Thailand after all, where farang are bestowed with all the rights and privileges and the poor Thais are excluded from their own playground. It is the farang who make all the rules. Only occasionally would the Thai be allowed to play but only if he agrees to abide by the mean, old farang's rules.

 

But not to despair, the Thai boy can go to his union and complain. The union is called The Jai Dii Farang, a rare breed in farangland and almost never seen in inner cities and under bridges where fellow farang live in boxes. But they seem to flourish in Thailand, especially in places where there is an abundant supply of gentle, lissom boys in loincloths. This union's mantra is marked by their overriding desire to help, their desire to give and their desire to be generous, which, of course, has got NOTHING to do with their DESIRE in coming to Thailand in the first place.

 

Oh, I need another hanky. Until I browsed this thread I was overwhlemed by yet another story of a Palestinian boy being shot and killed by an Israeli sniper while on his way to buy bread for his family. Oh how selfish and misplaced my sympathies were. The boys in loincloths need my attention. Please tell me where to send the cheque.

[TotallyOz]

I had to dab the corners of my eyes with a hanky after

 

WoW. I never knew you felt this way. Can we get together and watch The Green Mile or Titanic together. I do love a good hanky movie.

 

Seriously, thanks for the long post. It was well-written and although I know it did not refer to me, I will read it and learn from it.

[Guest PeterUK]

 

I also find that my pre-conceptions of male prostitutes was formed by the cinema and bum boys on Piccadilly. This was that they were low forms of life smelly and spotty and probably drug addicted and carrying social diseases.

 

What an eye opener Thailand turned out to be. Gorgeous guys, immaculately clean and tidy, affectionate, charming and ever smiling.

 

Well said, wowpow. And at a fraction of the price. Easy to forget, what with all the subtle and not-so-subtle putdowns of Thai barboys (they're devious, hardbitten, thieving, bored, jealous, incurious etc) on boards like this. It's only sensible to exercise due care, of course, when engaging in commercial transactions, but I wonder sometimes if some of the contributors here and elsewhere ever pause for a moment to consider just how damn lucky they are.

 

Maurice, I'm sure you're a delightful and kind-hearted (jai dii) guy in real life, but, boy, the depth of your cynicism on these boards worries me at times.

 

 

 

[khaolakguy]

Well, since you're nobody to me, you might want to save your concerns for someone else.

 

What created this build up of bile and bitterness, one wonders?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest catawampuscat]

Time for gaybutton to step in and play moderator and show us he still has his balls and is not

playing favorites as this whole thread is wacko and GT is not playing his proper role as a

moderator and is overreacting and losing the plot.. Maybe everyone is having a bad day but

the recent tone on this forum is not encouraging and methinks it is time for this cat to take a powder and

and return to the relative cleaniness of my swamp.. But will GB act or play it like a pussy and I don't mean a cat?..