Looks like its days are numbered

[Guest]

This squabbling is too tedious to follow, so if the thread strays outside the board rules & requires moderation, please send a PM (preferably with details of specific post no) .

[Gaybutton]

if the thread strays outside the board rules & requires moderation, please send a PM

As a moderator, that's your job.

[Guest buckeroo2]

I think there are more gossip whores around the Plaza that all hear and repeat over and over the same stories. I heard there is even one group at VIP tables that share the information willingly.

 

 

One of Alice Roosevelt Longworth's many memorable quotes"

"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."

[Guest]

As a moderator, that's your job.

 

I know, but have some sympathy. Life is too short to read this particular thread line by line.

[TotallyOz]

One of Alice Roosevelt Longworth's many memorable quotes"

"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."

 

You are most likely too young to remember my teenage tv shows. But, Hee Haw's:

 

"We don't go around repeating gossip. So, you had better sit tight and listen close the first time."

 

 

 

I do think we all listen when gossip is shared. I know of few who don't. I have tried over the years to distance myself from those that the majority of their conversation is about others. I much prefer a nice political debate to hearing about the misfortunes of others.

 

I also think the mods on this site are doing a great job. It shows great respect for posters and for free communication that they have allowed this debate. I know of other mods who would have deleted the initial post only based on the poster's name. I am glad we have moved beyond that. I do hope that the thread dies a slow death and this will be my last post here in this thread. But, in the mean time, kudos to the mods for doing such a good job and having patience to allow all to express their view.

[Gaybutton]

It shows great respect for posters and for free communication that they have allowed this debate.

I don't agree with that at all. I think it shows unjustifiable disrespect for the target of the post.

 

You keep changing the issue. The issue is not what other mods would or would not have done, respect for posters views, whether gossip is harmful, or who does the gossiping.

 

The issue is whether posting personal information about others without their permission is acceptable. It isn't. If something ever happens to you, do you really find it acceptable for HeyGay or anyone else to go running to the boards to post personal information about you without at least first contacting you and getting your permission and respecting your wishes if you deny that permission?

 

I can't speak for others, but I'm a hell of a lot more concerned about people's privacy than I am about whether people get to express their views.

 

He can deny it as much as he wants, but that does not alter the fact that personal "information" is in that post and the man's privacy was violated. All I can say is if I were still a moderator here, I would not have deleted the post based on who wrote it, but I definitely would have deleted it based on its content.

[TotallyOz]

The issue is not what other mods would or would not have done

 

I'll go back on what I said earlier for one more comment.

 

I made the statement about the mods going a good job as one jerk (mentioning no names my dear) was trying to tell them how to do their job. Having moderated sites for years, I know it is a hard job and without much praise or support. I wanted to give them that. They deserve it. They don't deserve snide comments from someone else. IMHO

 

BTW: my issue has been the same since the beginning. Gossip in all forms is bad. Period. You can say what you will about it, as you may like it in person and feel it is OK face to face. I disagree. That is my issue! Don't tell me what my issue is. I have too many issues to deal with on a day to day basis. I don't need others telling me my issues. I have an issue with that! (damn, another issue)

[KhorTose]

He can deny it as much as he wants, but that does not alter the fact that personal "information" is in that post and the man's privacy was violated. All I can say is if I were still a moderator here, I would not have deleted the post based on who wrote it, but I definitely would have deleted it based on its content.

 

I find myself agreeing both with Michael and GB inspite of the fact they almost say the opposite. I definitely would not delete the post. However, I would edit it to exclude the man's name and the name of the bar. Hey guy wanted to pass on gossip. That is okay with me until he gives us the man's name and/or information that tells us his real name.

[Guest Patexpat]

I think this is a matter of integrity, and simply put Heygay doesn't have any ...

[Guest fountainhall]

Gossip in all forms is bad. Period.

Like Khortose, I am split. I really want to agree with Michael. But I admit that when amongst friends, I do occasionally indulge in gossip about others. Most of the time, I think much of what we term “gossip” is just relatively harmless social banter. Occasionally, it may simply be a ‘put down’ about someone we actually like and respect. At other times, it will be a more deliberately hurtful jibe at someone we don’t particularly like.

 

As thaiworthy noted above, that’s really just human nature, like it or not. You may even agree with Oscar Wilde who writes in Lady Windermere’s Fan, “History is merely gossip” (although, to be fair, that is a preface to the punch line, “Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality”).

 

The fact is, again like it or not, “Did you hear about . . . ?” must be one of the most overused phrases in the language. At all times, though, those who receive such gossip are well aware of who provided it to them. The original perpetrator may be hidden amongst various layers of anonymity, but we are not anonymous to our correspondents. And that is surly one of the key differences between gossip amongst friends and gossip on a public message board.

 

So, I also agree 100% with GB’s comment -

 

violating someone's privacy on any of these message boards, no matter what the reason might be, is the worst possible type of violation.

The vast majority of those who post on message Boards do so under false names and with little if any details of our personal and private lives available to others. If we are to enjoy the benefit of such anonymity, then it is incumbent on those of us who post to provide the same courtesy of anonymity and privacy to others. ‘Naming names’ – or providing sufficient detail to identify individuals - should definitely not be permitted, in my view.

 

That said, there is clearly a grey area concerning the reprinting of information that is already publicly available in some other widely distributed forum. Is that equally reprehensible, or should it in fact be permissible?

[Gaybutton]

Is that equally reprehensible, or should it in fact be permissible?

I'd say it depends upon the format that it's publicly available. If it's in the news media, then I don't see a problem. If it stems from gossip, I see a big problem.

 

No matter what it is and no matter what the reason, nobody is justified in posting personal information about anyone on these boards.

 

As for the job the moderators do here, since it's rather obvious I'm the "jerk" Michael refers to, nobody is perfect and that includes moderators. I have no dispute with the job they usually do here, but this is one time I am in full disagreement about letting the original post on this thread stand. That's not telling them how to do their job. It's disagreeing with letting that post remain and I think I'm right about that. If Michael wants to resort to name calling, whether he meant me or someone else, that's his affair.

 

When a post ought to be removed, for reasons that go beyond me some people consider the post so important that it practically takes a Supreme Court decision to remove it. To me, if a post contains personal "information" about someone, then it should instantly be removed, period. That's my opinion.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a post containing personal "information" about La Cage Mike was necessary and apparently is acceptable.

[Guest fountainhall]

No matter what it is and no matter what the reason, nobody is justified in posting personal information about anyone on these boards.

Perhaps there’s another small issue here: is there any personal information that is acceptable or is everything out of bounds? For example, if someone posted that we had met (which we have not) and you noticed that I spoke pretty good French (alas, it’s not even average), would your mentioning that in a post be considered unacceptable?

 

Believe me, I raise this merely as an example and for no other reason. HeyGay’s style of written English under his several guises is, shall we say, pretty unique and has attracted a lot of negative comments on more than one Board. On your Board, under the thread Cruising for Sex, you wrote on March 5 –

 

Your English is coherent, correct, and understandable? . . . Just write correctly. You taught English. What's the problem?

That seems to be fact rather than gossip. But is it confidential personal information - the fact that a poster was actually a teacher of the language when he seems to go to great lengths to show us his written English is so poor?

 

I’m just curious as to where the boundaries should be drawn.

 

(As an aside - perhaps because of the differences of opinion, there's no denying that this thread is attracting a large number of views. It's about the 3rd most viewed thread in the last 6 months, and I reckon it will soon head the list if the debate continues for a couple more days.)

[Guest Geezer]

But is it confidential personal information - the fact that a poster was actually a teacher of the language when he seems to go to great lengths to show us his written English is so poor?

 

I dont think it is confidential. LMTU himself posted that upon his graduation from a school for English teachers his teacher pronounced him the best student in the class.

[Gaybutton]

Perhaps there’s another small issue here: is there any personal information that is acceptable or is everything out of bounds?

Geezer is right. I posted nothing he hadn't said himself.

 

To me personal information is just that - personal. I draw the line at common sense, but yes I would not post that you speak French unless I first asked you if it was ok, you had posted that yourself somewhere along the line, if you were not someone I knew well enough to know there is no way it would bother you, or if I had no valid reason to post it.

 

And I certainly wouldn't post it if there was any reason to believe it could be damaging to you or to try to use your information just to make myself look important on the boards.

 

Maybe that might seem ridiculous, but your privacy is yours. It is not my place to reveal anything I might know about you personally without your permission.

 

I see no reason in the world why any personal information about others belongs in posts on message boards.

[Guest fountainhall]

Maybe that might seem ridiculous, but your privacy is yours. It is not my place to reveal anything I might know about you personally without your permission.

 

I see no reason in the world why any personal information about others belongs in posts on message boards.

Thanks for the clarification. I do tend to agree.

[TotallyOz]

I see no reason in the world why any personal information about others belongs in posts on message boards.

 

Do you see any reason in the world why ANY personal information about others belongs discussed in chatty dinner groups?

[PattayaMale]

When someone owns a bar and publicizes it, in my view, he becomes a public figure. Whether it is right or wrong has been debated and even taken to the courts in some countries.

 

When an owner of a bar (yes, I know this is a technicality in ownership because of Thai law) suddenly leaves and major things happen to that bar, people will wonder, ask questions, and even start rumors.

 

Even though my example is extreme, look at the OJ trial in the USA. The argument could be made that this was gossip. Because OJ Simpson was a 'public figure", there was a lot of interest in the story and gossip.

 

In the case of this thread, I can understand the interest. People wanted to know what happened when a bar is very public in posting events and getting people to take an interest, and even including his name in the name of the bar.

 

I have no idea what the truth is with this bar, but when someone becomes in a sense a "public figure", people will talk. It might have helped if the owner would have posted something himself to give some explanation.

[Guest buckeroo2]

You are most likely too young to remember my teenage tv shows. But, Hee Haw's:

 

 

I was also a teenager during Hee Haw's run - I remember Minnie Pearl, Buck Owens, Roy Clark, etc - Actually, I think I am a few years older than you.

[Gaybutton]

In the case of this thread, I can understand the interest.

I understand the interest. That's not the problem. The problem is posting personal information.

 

I repeat: The bar is open and in business. Mike has gone. What else does anyone need to know? I fail to see any excuse as to why this man's personal affairs are anyone's business but his own.

 

I don't think many board members would appreciate it if someone started posting personal information about them. If a board starts allowing personal information about people to be posted, where does it end? Would you want people to post personal information about you without even asking first?

 

I know of no rule, written or implied, that says people have a right to privacy - unless they happen to be well known, own a bar, advertise it, or simply a lot of people are curious. Many people always seem to be fine with this sort of thing - as long as it happens to somebody else.

 

I agree that it would have been nice if Mike had posted, or at least authorized someone else to post for him, telling us what happened and why he left. But he didn't. Maybe he has very good reasons why he didn't. If he wants to tell his story, he will. If he doesn't, that should be his decision, not the decision of someone else.

 

Why the hell people can't just leave him alone goes beyond me.

[Guest HeyGay]

Do you see any reason in the world why ANY personal information about others belongs discussed in chatty dinner groups?

 

 

Oh you are wonderful Michael, with some of the Gossip that goes on in and around pattaya about Us alone you could write Volumes on, I thnk you have hit the nail on the head here, such Hypocrites some people are, I have heard that you speak to much about your personal life and that should be banned also, some people think, may be it gets up their nose you do and have had a good life and they dont consider they have, I have been called allsorts, (edited name) loves to say I'm an English Teacher which to which all this Gossip stems from, I think may even be a compliment, as Teachers are well respected in Thailand, did you know because a Teacher teaches a MONK he is classed high up on the respect barometer in Thailand with a very high wai.

 

I my self have had very personnel Information outted about a VIRUS I contracted to the base of my tongue, not some thing I wanted to be the talk of the town, but in fact it worked out so well, in the end, as no one had even heard of the HPV Virus and the fact if not caught quickly could kill you with in 18 months, but on the other hand if you get all the latest very expensive treatments its the easiest Virus to cure and now there is a Vaccine for stopping you catching it at all, mainly for under 26 yos but the lasted research is saying it will stop the Virus from starting at all ages now.

 

Even though (edited name) is always trying to say I'm an English Teacher and its true I have teaching lessons, when I had all my Finances frozen 5 years ago, but that has all long been sorted out now and I was left with a few crumbs to live on, but when I completed the course and it we not easy, I found a job more to my personality and Bank balance as a Corporate Consultant and that is my own personal information, that has been given out, but I'm use to it.

 

As for many guys here giving their personal observation of if its ok to write about Interesting Information, given to me by the person who it is about, well if he is saying these things to all in sundry and the Information is circulating Pattaya in various forms, I just cant see what's the problem, is to put the record straight, with the truth of the matter, from the horses mouth, I also I consider the fact that I am doing MIKE a good service, by not allowing anyone to believe he was at fault in any way, to which is the way I was told he was, by some of those involved.

 

 

I must Thank the owners and moderators here who have the Balls to not be afraid to let the world see the truth of what so many here are gossiping about around town but when its clarified and and the truth is told by me hate it as may be what they are saying in private is nothing like the truth as I'm writing.

 

 

BY THE WAY (edited name) YES THE LA CAGE IS OPEN BUT FOR HOW LONG IS ANOTHER DEBATE BEING GOSSIPED ABOUT AROUND TOWN.

 

Picture of old ladies knitting Circle Gossiping.

[PattayaMale]

GB, Are you saying it is ok for people to talk about it publicly with each other, but not write about it publicly?

 

I do not know about Thailand but there is indeed a rule about "Public Figures". In fact a USA Supreme Court decision.

Public figure is a legal term applied in the context of defamation actions (libel and slander) as well as invasion of privacy. A public figure (such as a politician, celebrity, or business leader) cannot base a lawsuit on incorrect harmful statements unless there is proof that the writer or publisher acted with actual malice (knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth[1] ). The burden of proof in defamation actions is higher in the case of a public figure.

[Gaybutton]

the truth is told by me hate it as may be what they are saying in private is nothing like the truth as I'm writing.

Truth or not, you have no business posting about Mike's personal affairs, regardless of whether you think you're doing him a favor, which I'm willing to bet he never asked you to do.

 

And, by the way, your version of "the truth" might not even be correct in the first place. You're right, people are gossiping and so far I've heard over half a dozen different versions, from reliable people, of what actually took place. You're not going to see me posting any of them and unless you have personally been in touch with Mike, which again I doubt, you don't know anything more than anyone else around here.

 

Do you think I ought to post all the different versions and just let people decide for themselves which one is accurate? As I said, if Mike wants to say what happened, why can't you let him be the one to do it?

 

I think you were way out of line to submit that post, but I don't think you'll ever admit it. Based on everything you've ever posted, you've never done anything wrong or inappropriate in your life.

[Gaybutton]

GB, Are you saying it is ok for people to talk about it publicly with each other, but not write about it publicly?

When it comes to other people's personal information, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've already said it's not possible to stop people from gossiping among themselves. People do. I've never met anyone who doesn't. But it's a different story when it comes to putting it in writing and posting it. Sure, the US Supreme Court might say it's ok. But not everyone on these boards comes from the USA.

 

I'm sorry, but I think posting people's private affairs is wrong, whether the law says it's ok or not, and I can't think of anything that would make it right.

[Guest HeyGay]

When it comes to other people's personal information, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've already said it's not possible to stop people from gossiping among themselves. People do. I've never met anyone who doesn't. But it's a different story when it comes to putting it in writing and posting it. Sure, the US Supreme Court might say it's ok. But not everyone on these boards comes from the USA.

 

I'm sorry, but I think posting people's private affairs is wrong, whether the law says it's ok or not, and I can't think of anything that would make it right.

 

If you really thought that you would not be mentioning it to any one else around town would you in reality, but my spies tell me you have been big time.

 

Oh but its nice to hear your personal opinion, but fortunately this is a patch work quilt and not a one sided forum run by Mr Mugabe. Zimbabwe's president, free speach is what is respected here, plus other opinions are Interesting as well, it would be a strange world if one persons opinion dominated every one else's, would it not.

 

But I think the words of Joe the real owner of La Cage.if you don't beleive me a visit to City Hall will confirm this, are to be taken more into consideration\ after all its all about him I'm writing, Not Mike.

[Gaybutton]

my spies tell me you have been big time.

Then you need new spies. You also need new excuses. I never denied talking about it among close friends. Of course I did. I'm as curious as anybody else, but I also have enough respect for Mike's privacy that I didn't post personal information or unsubstantiated stories about him, did I?

 

You can imagine for yourself what my "spies" tell me about you. You're not the only one with "spies." But I have enough respect for your privacy not to post anything about you that you didn't first post yourself.

 

Go ahead and keep denying you're writing about Mike. Now tell us all about how Joe asked you to write a damned thing. Tell us all about how you contacted Mike, got the story directly from him, and with his permission posted personal details about him.