Pattaya:big illusion

[Guest voldemar]

In my opinion, Pattaya is a big illusion but the one some of us cannot resist. Indeed, there are not too many places where some of us can be called sexy man, praised for nice shirt or welcomed to the disco for local youth. But even Pattaya is changing: instead of "Papa" or "pumpoi" you most probably will be called boss, mister or even sir. And you

do not need to carry toilet paper with you anymore: it is available in almost every public toilet...

Here are some random "notes from the field":

Ad in local Russian real estate magazine:

" We sell NONCHINESE made reinforced doors".

In Indian restaurant:

Customer: Can I have mutton tikka?

Waiter: Sure, Sir

Waiter (returns 10 minutes later): Sorry, Sir, tikka is finished.

Customer: I will have just a coffee, then.

Waiter: Just a moment , Sir. Returns very quickly.

Customer: I will pay for the coffee?

Waiter: No problem, Sir, tikka is coming.

After the meal.

Waiter: How was it?

Customer: Very good.

Waiter: Very good?

In a bar (will not name it but surely many recognize it).

Though nobody forces them to do so, several dances try very vigorously to get it up.

One is even watching something erotic on his mobile. But with absolutely no results. Besides,

numerous waiters obscure the sight. One relatively young Asian customer is losing patience, moves from the back raw to the front seat and start calling one dancer after another, gives to each a modest tip and stimulate everyone himself. He definitely creates a show of his own but with absolutely no success. Finally, out of desperation (?) he summons a relatively young ladyboy with clear signs of hormonal changers. The ladyboy is quite willingly approaching the customer, gratiously accepts the tip but then suddenly shows the signs of "extreme embarrassment" and totally deny the access. The game is over...

 

Remember: the older we get the more illusions we need...

[Guest fountainhall]

Judging by comments on a number of blogs and message Boards, the attraction of Pattaya is going downhill for many. If the Chinese, the Russians, the Indians, the Arabs and the other nationalities which are now flocking to Thailand do not patronise the bars and other gay establishments in any numbers, and if the owners who presently fail to adapt to changing market conditions continue on that path, how much longer can gay Pattaya as we know it continue?

[Guest voldemar]

Judging by comments on a number of blogs and message Boards, the attraction of Pattaya is going downhill for many. If the Chinese, the Russians, the Indians, the Arabs and the other nationalities which are now flocking to Thailand do not patronise the bars and other gay establishments in any numbers, and if the owners who presently fail to adapt to changing market conditions continue on that path, how much longer can gay Pattaya as we know it continue?

I cannot,obviously, answer this question. What I can say I like Pattaya much more as it is right now than during the high season. There are no traffic jams, Russian tourists do not bother me. I can go anywhere I want. It is true that most of the bars are almost have no customers. They, however, have plenty of dancers happy to go with you... I just do not understand the happiness expressed over here by some posters about 8 fem boys in filthy Solid bar in Bkk..

How about 30-40 handsome guys of any shape or form? For me personally, a huge advantage of Pattaya is almost infinite choice of restaurants and cuisines so that I go to a new restaurant every night. I also like discos... Another thing that kept me busy is exploring local real estate. The only thing which really bothers me is that I went far beyond my budget. Other than that everything that ONE CAN BUY can be bought in Pattaya.

Everything else (as they say) is priceless and probably should be saved for the next life...

[Guest thaiworthy]

IThe only thing which really bothers me is that I went far beyond my budget. Other than that everything that ONE CAN BUY can be bought in Pattaya. Everything else (as they say) is priceless and probably should be saved for the next life...

 

Wise words and a very realistic attitude. For me personally though, Pattaya is a nice place to visit, but I can't stay there for any length of time. After a long deliberation, I think Bangkok is better for me for a myriad of personal reasons. I am not a big fan of the Russians or the Arabs, but they are all people, and I think we need to respect any one or another's space. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be coming to Thailand at all. Big illusions are everywhere, but more noticeable in Pattaya and it is no coincidence to me that Buddhism teaches one to see and be aware of all that is around you.

[Guest voldemar]

I am not a big fan of the Russians or the Arabs, but they are all people, and I think we need to respect any one or another's space.

For my many years coming to Pattaya I never had any problems with Russians and only ones

with Arabs. I frequently eat in Arab restaurants and I once I was groped by Arab man (it was near Sunee plaza and probably he saw me walking with a Thai guy earlier. And who knows,

perhaps somebody else would even like it. I did not). I did have several problems with farangs (native English speakers, probably Aussies of English) who like to start conversations while in tuk tuks and I do not like to talk to strangers...

Without refering to any particular post or poster, let me just generally say that those who display their displeasure with other ethnic or religious groups (and frequently pretend that they are somehow superior) are just bigots, racists and F..cking jerks with whom I would not want to walk on the same side of the street let alone sharing the same cyberspace...

[Guest]

Of course we need to take care about identities.

A friend criticised some "Russians" sat nearby on the beach. Sadly I had to point out they were from the North of England.

 

However, if a particular group do not conform to reasonable standards of behaviour, I reserve the right to criticise them.

For example, on my last flight to Thailand, a group of (apparently straight) Brits were getting quite drank & obnoxious on the plane. The people sat immediately in front of them were eventually moved by the cabin stewards.

If I find other behavioural problems from other nationalities, I reserve the right to criticise them.

As another example, my limited experiences of people from muslim North African countries have usually not been positive. That's not racism, I just don't like their attitudes. Why should I look favourably on people who promote homophobic attitudes via their religion?

 

People from places like Thailand seem much more polite & tolerant, by comparison.

[kokopelli]

Of course we need to take care about identities.

A friend criticised some "Russians" sat nearby on the beach. Sadly I had to point out they were from the North of England.

 

At the gym in Pattaya there was a trio of Russians jabbering away in Russian, although they were not obnoxious. After a while I realized they were speaking Australian!

[kokopelli]

Of course we need to take care about identities.

A friend criticised some "Russians" sat nearby on the beach. Sadly I had to point out they were from the North of England.

 

At the gym in Pattaya there was a trio of Russians jabbering away in Russian, although they were not obnoxious. After a while I realized they were speaking Australian!

[Guest voldemar]

Of course we need to take care about identities.

A friend criticised some "Russians" sat nearby on the beach. Sadly I had to point out they were from the North of England.

 

However, if a particular group do not conform to reasonable standards of behaviour, I reserve the right to criticise them.

For example, on my last flight to Thailand, a group of (apparently straight) Brits were getting quite drank & obnoxious on the plane. The people sat immediately in front of them were eventually moved by the cabin stewards.

If I find other behavioural problems from other nationalities, I reserve the right to criticise them.

As another example, my limited experiences of people from muslim North African countries have usually not been positive. That's not racism, I just don't like their attitudes. Why should I look favourably on people who promote homophobic attitudes via their religion?

 

People from places like Thailand seem much more polite & tolerant, by comparison.

Critisizing substandard behavior, is ,of course, quite acceptable. You are quite experienced traveler. Do you notice homophobic behavior of muslims in Pattaya? I do not. At least, not more than from other religions.

I will give you current quite comical example. There are a couple of Thai boys operating currently

as freelances just at the entrance of soi VC. I just observed several times that they try to solicit Arab men. The men declined but in a quite polite form (though visibly embarassed in front of their numerous peers). Being declined the boy said: Why? At first glance, it may look like the boy is missing something obvious. But on deeper level, is not it true that many Arab men do like to play with boys?

Definitely, both Russians and Arabs can be homophobic (especially if drunk) but under normal circumstances they realize that whatever their habits back in motherland, they are in Thailand as guests and should adhere to local standards.And they do.

The other day I had a late dinner in Uzbek restaurant. Normally, most of their patrons are Russians. As you would expect in "normal" restaurant, I was approached by Russian manager to inform me in good English that the kitchen is about to close and ask about late orders...

You see if you wish to run good business in places, like Pattaya, it does not matter whether you are Russian, Arab or Martian: you need to provide adequate and polite service to any customer now matter what your prejudices are...

The same is true for tourists (of course, if you want to have pleasant, trouble free vacation).

[TotallyOz]

After a long deliberation, I think Bangkok is better for me for a myriad of personal reasons.

 

I have agreed with you on many levels. I too think Pattaya is good for short stays. But, even when in Bangkok, I think of Pattaya.

 

What about Chiang Mai? I love it there and think it would be a nice middle ground.

[Guest fountainhall]

Without refering to any particular post or poster, let me just generally say that those who display their displeasure with other ethnic or religious groups (and frequently pretend that they are somehow superior) are just bigots, racists and F..cking jerks . . ."

Let's face it - many of us dislike the behaviour of certain people in certain circumstances. Personally, I love Australia and thoroughly enjoy my visits there. But the attitudes and behaviour of a very few Australians both at home and overseas really does annoy me. There is in this situation, though, the issue of balance and, to a certain degree, of choice. If I am really pissed off about it, I can avoid going to stay with my friends in Sydney or walk out of the bar with rowdy Australians. Similarly, to such Ozzies, I am have no problems being called a “pommie bastard”.

 

I have no Russian friends. Before the security checks at Suvarnabhumi were moved back from the Gate areas to immediately after Immigration, several times I encountered groups of Russians who quite blatantly barged to the front of the security lines. Attempts by officials and other passengers were always met with total indifference. That also pissed me off to the point where it inevitably creates a negative feeling about a certain nationality or group of people.

 

In neither case do I believe racism or bigotry comes into the question.

 

Yet, whilst I respect every person’s right to worship whichever God they choose, I have to admit to a feeling of – what? Is it merely apprehension? – when I see an Arab lady dressed in the full black abaya with her face covered by the niqab, often with gauze so that I cannot even see her eyes. Equally, I have that same feeling when in the presence of a Sephardic (do I mean Hasidic or Ashkenazi?) Jew with his tiny top hat, his ringlets and the particular way he dresses.

 

In these and other cases, it is not the person who makes me feel awkward – rather it is the way they dress. And yet I do not have that feeling when, say, as happened recently, I am on a plane and there is a senior member of the Catholic clergy in full regalia sitting in the row in front.

 

This is clearly some sort of historical cultural bias at play. But does it show a lack of tolerance? I hope not, because I basically agree with voldemar’s comments. Whatever my personal feeling, I certainly do not “display my displeasure”. But it is a less desirable facet of human nature that we generally react differently when confronted with that with which we are not familiar and in the presence of which we feel uncomfortable. How you get rid of that, other than through education and experience, I don’t know.

[kokopelli]

 

Yet, whilst I respect every person