Sorry from borrowing from another forum

[Guest voldemar]

I went to Gaybutton message board to check for Colmx report to his recent visit to Pattaya

(by the way,Colmx is my favorite poster on Gaythailand message boards and I wish he posted here more frequently) and I noticed absolutely unbelievable story posted by Rich LB regarding the passport requirements allegedly issued by Homeland security. Since I am not registered on GB message board allow me to express my opinion here. Anybody who pays slightest attention to my posts knows that I am not big fan of Obama administration (to put it very mildly). However, I do not believe that alleged requirement of Department of Home land security regarding 6 blank pages in visa section of the passport for International travelers exists and I have very simple proof of that. Everybody who travels United from US

knows that automatic check-in procedure allows for scan of the passport page and is not adapted for checking blank pages. It is impossible for major airline to systematically ignore the instructions of Homeland department by allowing automatic scan of just page of the passport.

Thus, if the story is true I would take the airline to the court, cause what they did is absolutely outrageous.

[Guest ronnie4you]

Here is an article from the LA Times which discusses the subject, and tells you how to find out if you need more blank pages:

 

http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-tr-spot9mar09

[Gaybutton]

Jomtienbob, the person who went through this nonsense, made it back to Thailand yesterday just after midnight. I had dinner with him last night. He was told what RichLB says he was told. I asked why he didn't insist on seeing a supervisor immediately. It turns out he did see a supervisor immediately. The supervisor backed up what the check-in clerk said, despite admitting she knew of no such rule and found nothing on her computer, and also refused to allow him to board the flight unless he first went to the passport office in Miami. He asked for a copy of this rule in writing and wanted them to give him, also in writing, the reason he was being denied boarding. They refused

 

Meanwhile, Jomtienbob lives 50 miles north of Miami, so it was not exactly convenient for him to go to the passport office. He called for an appointment and was told no appointments are available until June 20. He wasn't about to wait that long, so he simply went to the office and explained his predicament. Fortunately, the passport office was sympathetic to his situation and did help him immediately. They issued him an entire new passport, since his current passport was due to expire in 9 months. They also told him they've never heard of such a rule.

 

He called Delta Airlines and spoke to a supervisor. That supervisor had him on hold for over a half hour. When she finally came back on the line she said she researched everything available to her and she cannot find anything about such a rule.

 

When he was finally able to board a flight, they gave him first class from Miami to Detroit. That's nowhere near good enough for Jomtienbob and he is going to try for further compensation. He said this whole affair ended up costing him over US $500. He did get the names of everyone with whom he had to deal, including the names of the check-in clerk and supervisor who denied him boarding in the first place.

 

As far as Jomtienbob is concerned, this matter is far from over. Whether Delta intentionally lied to him or was simply mistaken, you'll have to form your own opinions about that.

[Guest voldemar]

I am wondering if there is a direct way to contact Home Land Security and inquire about the existense of any such rule. Another good venue to explore is to write to local congressman and senator. Finally, I am wondering if new consumer protection agency can deal with such situations.

As a matter of practical considerations, I recall that several years ago I was traveling to Singapore. The procedure for long stay (work permit) visa over there is that

you first get a special document from your sponsor, then upon arrival in Singapore you make yourself available to local immigration. Based on the sponsor document , immigration grants you special three day visa. You then within three days should appear in the Ministry of Man power where they stamp you work permit. Before leaving to Singapore, I realized that I have no free pages left in my passport. I went to Chicago

to passport Bureu just two days before departure and surely they denied to add pages

to my passport within two days (despite that the passport office practically has no customers at the moment).

I was admitted to Singapore though and then went to US Embassy over there where pages were added the same day. Perhaps in US Embassy in Thailand they can do it too and rather quickly.

[Gaybutton]

I am wondering if there is a direct way to contact Home Land Security and inquire about the existense of any such rule.

Go ahead if you want to, but there is no such rule.

[Guest fountainhall]

There is indeed no such rule. On one US government website, there is a recommendation that if you are travelling to Japan (i.e. going through customs), you should have 2 full unused pages in your passport. But as has been said, Jomtienbob was merely transiting - and there is no rule about passports in such a situation, other than that you have a valid one (which for almost all countries means it should be valid for at least 6 months).

 

I believe the best way to tackle the ridiculous nonsense to which Jomtienbob was subjected is with the airline itself.

 

In 2003 I had to make a return flight from Hong Kong to Geneva and chose to fly via London on Cathay Pacific/Swiss. This was a time when CX was changing its long haul business class seats from the back recline ones to angled flat. When I made my CX booking, I specifically requested that my flights had the new seats. To cut the preliminaries short, because of aircraft changes I had to change the return flight three times before I even got to Switzerland, including bringing the flight forward by one day. But that was no problem.

 

When I arrived at Heathrow for that flight, I double-checked at check-in that the flight had the new seats, spent an hour or so in the lounge and then got on the plane. Old seats! I called the purser and said I refused to travel. The ground agent was called, a cute young Chinese guy. He was terribly sorry, he said, but the aircraft had been changed (again!). He would have put me in first class, but the flight was fully booked. After telling him the history, I asked him to get my bags from the hold, said I was not flying, and would wait until another flight that weekend with the new seats.

 

We then left the aircraft and went to the desk by the entry to the airbridge. The supervisor came up. Again I explained the issue. She said she was unable to check if any of the other aircraft that weekend had new seats or not. That was a lie! I quietly asked her the time. Somewhat startled, she looked at her watch and said 6:10pm (the flight was due to depart at 6:25). I looked her in the eye, told her very firmly that within the last three hours, the three daily aircraft had taken off from Hong Kong to London – two 747s and one A340. It would be obvious from her computer screens if these aircraft had the new seat configurations or the old. Somewhat meekly she checked them again. I’m so sorry sir, none of tomorrow’s flights have the new seating. I could stay a maximum of 2 days in London, and so I asked her to check the present situation for the next day. Again, no lie-flat seats! With no alternative, I lodged a complaint and took the flight.

 

Arriving at Hong Kong, I was still angry. So I called the booking hotline, told the lady I had to travel to London that evening but had a broken leg. Was there any availability on a flight with the longer lie-flat seats. After a couple of minutes, she came back. Two of the aircraft did!

 

So I had been lied to – deliberately! I know a little about the law and such a situation could be termed “deliberate misrepresentation to induce a person to do something they otherwise would not do” which I knew to be legally actionable in both London and Hong Kong. So I wrote a long, factual letter to Cathay Pacific claiming a full refund of that return sector.

 

The first reply brushed off the complaint, saying there is never a guarantee about seating, and in any case the airline’s duty was to get me from A to B, which had been achieved. My specific point was not addressed and, surprise - no compensation! I persevered with a second letter. Two months elapsed. I chased them, this time getting a reply offering me a one-way upgrade – subject to load (i.e. only if there were empty seats). I declined and restated my case.

 

Three months later, I wrote a final letter. I added if I did not hear from them with the offer of a full refund “by close of business on Monday ….”, I would instruct my solicitor on Tuesday morning to take legal action against the airline. Of course, I was in no position to do that, but I was effectively calling their bluff.

 

By 4:00 pm on Monday, I received a hand-delivered letter, an email AND a fax. CX offered me 3 options for a resolution, 2 of which were a guaranteed upgrade to first class on my next trip to London, or 60,000 miles added to my account. Since 60,000 miles on One World at that time equaled a business class return from Bangkok to Sydney, that’s what I accepted.

 

The moral is, I suggest, twofold. Firstly, all airline complaints staff are trained to stall as long as possible. The longer a complainant has to wait, the more likely it is they will drop the complaint – or just forget about it. Secondly, if you seriously intend to pursue a claim, allow time to elapse between each correspondence, but keep turning the screw. After a few months, a threat to take legal counsel if a satisfactory solution has not been reached “by close of business on . . .” always sounds somewhat alarming. Clearly, it’s your last chance, but in a case where a deliberate lie has been told or something like that where the airline is clearly at fault, go for it!

[Guest shebavon]

Fountainhall,

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I will incorporate them as appropriate to the letter I have been drafting.

 

I never would have expected an air line to so blatantly lie to a so-called valued customer like this, admit to the error, and not try to compensate the passenger for one's losses.

[TotallyOz]

Fountainhall,

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I will incorporate them as appropriate to the letter I have been drafting.

 

I never would have expected an air line to so blatantly lie to a so-called valued customer like this, admit to the error, and not try to compensate the passenger for one's losses.

 

What I have learned in dealing with airlines, it is not what happened but who you contact. I always get good results when I contact the CEO and board of directors for companies. I also cc those letters to the appropriate customer service department. After one polite letter to customer support, I suggest you skip the next 20 steps and go for the big guns!

[Guest voldemar]

In my opinion, the case ( if it is fully described) goes far beyond usual lies which airlines typically practice. Invoking nonexistent government regulations, forcing customer to add (unnecessary) pages to passport etc is totally unacceptable. Therefore,

the related government structures should be informed and the person in Delta responsible for such actions should be severely punished. Delta should learn it cannot play with such things. Just my opinion, of course.

[Guest fountainhall]

I always get good results when I contact the CEO and board of directors for companies. I also cc those letters to the appropriate customer service department.

In my experience, success or failure to get a problem addressed by writing to a CEO or Board member largely depends on your status as a frequent flyer. Unless you are at or near the airline's top tier, the initial letter will automatically be passed down the chain and you're back at square one.

[TotallyOz]

In my experience, success or failure to get a problem addressed by writing to a CEO or Board member largely depends on your status as a frequent flyer. Unless you are at or near the airline's top tier, the initial letter will automatically be passed down the chain and you're back at square one.

 

You may be right. But, it is persistence that is key and one's ability to write over and over.

 

Ex. Years ago I was using Ticketmaster to follow Madonna across 20 US cities. In NYC, I had the front row tickets but Ticketmaster stole them (my words) and I could not check out. I made a screen capture and started writing to them. I got no where. I then wrote to the CEO's personal e-mail (talked to one of his secretaries that gave to me) and he was pissed I kept writing to him. But, in the end, he gave me 4th row seats and a back stage pass. I had a great time watching her everywhere but NYC was especially delightful as I knew I worked harder to get the tickets.

[Guest anonone]

You may be right. But, it is persistence that is key and one's ability to write over and over.

 

Ex. Years ago I was using Ticketmaster to follow Madonna across 20 US cities. In NYC, I had the front row tickets but Ticketmaster stole them (my words) and I could not check out. I made a screen capture and started writing to them. I got no where. I then wrote to the CEO's personal e-mail (talked to one of his secretaries that gave to me) and he was pissed I kept writing to him. But, in the end, he gave me 4th row seats and a back stage pass. I had a great time watching her everywhere but NYC was especially delightful as I knew I worked harder to get the tickets.

 

Sounds like a great time. She had a string of a couple really good shows. Pretty envious of ya for this one....

Which tour was it?

[Guest thaiworthy]

This unfortunate experience seems like an isolated experience. With the millions of travelers the airlines have to cope with, a few bad apples at the airline counter is probably pretty unusual. I think jomtienbob had every right to complain, and I hope he will be satisfied with the resolution. You do have to be persistent and stand up for yourself in these cases. I'm not sure what I would have done. I don't really like traveling much any more, so if I had the same experience I might have backed down, which is what the airlines want you to do. These days my blood pressure is more important to me than any inconvenience, but in this case, the inconvenience is asking for a lot. Whether Delta lied or was mistaken doesn't really matter. The victim in this case seems to have managed to handle it quite well, better than I would have, and he deserves a pat on the back for his plan of action. Good luck.

[kokopelli]

 

Perhaps in US Embassy in Thailand they can do it too and rather quickly.

Yes, US Embassy in Bangkok can add pages quickly. Hand them the passport and wait an hour or so and finished. I can't recall the cost but not a lot.

[Gaybutton]

I can't recall the cost but not a lot.

$82 or Baht 2,542

 

http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2504&start=0