How Russian teenagers are being locked up for expressing dissent

[Moses]

32 minutes ago, khaolakguy said:

when had Russia and it's client Assad allowed a process for a democratic sharing

with whom? 

whole this circus, what started before intervention of Russia in 2015, was inspired by US - there was "triangle" Assad, ISIS and "democratic" Islamic radical movement backed by US because it was competitor to ISIS...

Military intervention of US to Syria against will of legal Syrian govt was done under label "fight with ISIS"... OK, official intentions are good. But when US declared ISIS defeated many years ago, it still kept US troops in region. For what?

Now Syria will have "democratic" radical Islamist regime. Exactly this one with which "democratic sharing" was expected. 

 

[khaolakguy]

13 minutes ago, Moses said:

with whom? 

With whoever the Syrians elected. Basic concept of democracy.

[Moses]

Just now, khaolakguy said:

With whoever the Syrians elected. Basic concept of democracy.

Yeah, yeah. 

And the examples of installations in the Middle East of other "basic foundations of democracy" didn't make you think?

Now on the world map there is Iraq with the "basic foundation of democracy" without Saddam Hussein but with ISIS, Iran with the "basic foundation of democracy" and the ayatollah, Libya with two "basic foundations of democracy" that are waging a civil war with each other.

Attempts to implement the "basic foundations of democracy" in Algeria in 2012 and 2019 almost brought ISIS to power in this country, fortunately the long-standing president had enough steel in his balls to prevent this.

Are you sure that these were attempts to install the "Basic Foundations of Democracy"?

[Moses]

Right in the center of Europe, an absolute, and moreover, theocratic monarchy lives and flourishes. Its name is the Vatican. Don't you want to introduce "the basic principles of democracy" there?

Land American troops, finance the opposition, preferably a radical one, in order to undermine the monarch's power without much expense and risk... No? Why not?

Because there are no oil?

[Moses]

Okay, then let's talk about Qatar or the UAE?

Something about despotism, democracy, opposition? About the urgent need to land American troops there and stimulate the opposition for another Arab Spring? No? Really, if they buy American weapons, then why spoil the relationship with the client?

Then maybe we can immediately formulate the main feature of despotism and a terrible regime? Let's write it like this: a regime that does not buy American weapons is despotic. And if the regime buys weapons, then it is "democracy".

[reader]

Try not to laugh as it will make Moses feel sad.

[Moses]

8 minutes ago, reader said:

Try not to laugh as it will make Moses feel sad.

Why? 

Are you sad already because your country gave shelter to Nazi after WWII?

Or are you sad because US dropped nuclear bombs and vaporized hundred thousands of Japanese civilians (here should be propagandistic "including women and kids" like loves to write Western propaganda)?

[Moses]

Oh, sorry, I forgot propagandistic picture, which is for sure forged in Kremlin:

[reader]

8 minutes ago, Moses said:

Why? 

Are you sad already because your country gave shelter to Nazi after WWII?

Or are you sad because US dropped nuclear bombs and vaporized hundred thousands of Japanese civilians (here should be propagandistic "including women and kids" like loves to write Western propaganda)?

Not at all. We avenged Pearl Harbor and the Japanese atrocities in Korea, China and every country they invaded. Russia, as you recall, was all too keen to join us in the final phase of defeat of Japan, grabbing land it still occupies. But I guess that slipped your memory.

[Moses]

11 minutes ago, reader said:

But I guess that slipped your memory.

No. It didn't slip out. I remember very well that you continue to take revenge on everyone: Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq, Syria, Libya... and you "take revenge" without ceasing...

As for me personally, no one can say about me "When he was young, he came to kill and torture young guys in Asia, and when he became old, he began to come and fuck for money the grandchildren of those whom he did not manage to kill when he was young." What about you?

[reader]

I say it’s so damn easy to get under your skin 🙂

[Moses]

2 minutes ago, reader said:

I say it’s so damn easy to get under your skin

Dreams, dreams. I'm from Northern country - here we have thick skin.

[khaolakguy]

Talk about over reaction to an even that happened, probably, currently! All the way from the first response back to World War Two, but why stop there? I am sure we can all find terrible actions by our countries in WW1, 19th century, 18th century, and I'm sure there were some shitty cavemen somewhere. 

But what does it have to with the current state of the world.............

[Moses]

Do you know what the advantage of my position on the forum is? I have never written that there is democracy in the country where I live. On the contrary, I have written that there are problems with freedoms and democracy here.

That is why I easily smirk to their face every time some arrogant American and proud Briton without reason starts telling me about democracy. These people are so brainwashed that they are sure that there is democracy in their countries. I suppose it is because they have been told about it from every iron since they were in diapers.

Respected people, the word "democracy" implies the management and control of power by the people. Therefore, if you insist that you have democracy, then you will have to agree that the atrocities in Vietnam were committed with the knowledge, consent, on behalf of and under the control of the people.

As well as the bombing of Japan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, the invasion of Cuba, Panama, Nicaragua, the wars in Laos.

If you have a democracy, you have to agree that this was done in your name:

 

It's simple for me: they ask me "why are your troops in Ukraine?" and I can easily answer "because we don't have democracy."

And what will you answer to the question "why was there a war in Vietnam?" Or "why are your troops still in Japan (Germany, South Korea, etc.... substitute the appropriate word)?" Or "what are your troops doing in Syria, although you have long declared that ISIS was defeated?"

Because if you insist in democracy in your country, then you is responsible for actions of your govt.

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Moses said:

 

In 2-3 years, when there will be not law in Syria but Sharia, when Syrian women will take off their high heels and put on a burqa, when the day will begin with the cries of muezzins and not with the latest news, when another Al Qaeda cell will emerge and strengthen, reread this post. And remember that once upon a time this was a prosperous secular state. Like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq before it.

 

2 hours ago, unicorn said:

Only a fool can deny this is an embarrassment for the Russian Federation, though. The only good that could come of this for the US is if Russia loses its military bases to Turkey. 

2 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

I can criticise Israel, I can criticise the US, I can criticise "the west". I can acknowledge their mistakes and on occasion their disgraceful behaviour.  However you can never acknowledge your own country's abuses or fuckups.

 

+1, +1 , +1 

thank you all three as it was what I wanted to say but you were faster.

Yes there's  real danger we and Syrians will be missing Asads depending of what happens to country. But all in, it was worth to try to remove  as at end of day their rule brought country to it's knees, indeed the same communism did to Russia.

That it's embarrassment to Russia , goes without saying . Whether it's good or bad  and for  whom remains to be seen, may turn not so good for Syrians but good for Syria's neighbours but other way around is also possible , at least temporarily.

And  indeed , in democracy or even ' democracy ' we can criticize our rulers and what they do, luxury not available to many other humans.

[Moses]

2 minutes ago, vinapu said:

but good for Syria's neighbours

Could you please name one?

Turkey? Erdogan now will be sure, what Kurds will have no shelter anymore. But what it will bring to Turkish people?

Israel? Well I don't know how it will be benefited by existence of one more  radical Islamic regime. Directly on it border.

Jordan? Iraq?

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Moses said:

Wherever "democracy" sticks its paws, chaos arises.

 

still  people given choice probably  would chose messy democracy over "orderly" regimes as democratic mess always flourishes but forced autocratic order sooner or later collapses as population can be kept in line only so long and carinal flaw of autocracies is usually lack of clear succession lines. Then chaos arises

If Trump or Macron  get heart attack we know who will be next president or at least how it will be selected, luxury unknown  to Chinese , Russians , Equatorial Guineans and such.

[Moses]

11 minutes ago, vinapu said:

still  people given choice probably  would chose messy democracy over "orderly" regimes as democratic mess

The problem is what it not democracy stick pawns, but American "democracy" stick pawns in foreign countries.

Americans have benefits, and countries have "mess". Once again: Gaddafi was bad, pawn was "sticked" and now Libya has 13 years of civilian war and few "governments.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Moses said:

Right in the center of Europe, an absolute, and moreover, theocratic monarchy lives and flourishes. Its name is the Vatican. Don't you want to introduce "the basic principles of democracy" there?

 

if Vatican invades Italy , why not  ? But it's peaceful state showing you can have muscles without going to the gym and flexing 

[Moses]

2 minutes ago, vinapu said:

if Vatican invades Italy

Any memories about Syrian invasions?

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Moses said:

 

Are you sad already because your country gave shelter to Nazi after WWII?

Or are you sad because US dropped nuclear bombs and vaporized hundred thousands of Japanese civilians (here should be propagandistic "including women and kids" like loves to write Western propaganda)?

your country never came to terms to deal those own who murdered millions of their own people during Stalin' rule

as for Japan bombing never forget to praise it as Russia acquired Kurile Islands as result and spoils of war she joined  so late (which considering effort with war in Europe is understandable but spoils they are) 

[Moses]

7 minutes ago, vinapu said:

your country never came to terms to deal those own who murdered millions of their own people during Stalin' rule

That exactly I say. Country what murdered millions of own people is despoty, but country what murdered foreign people in your eyes is democracy...

- Why you bombed Yugoslavia?
- For democracy...
- Why you bombed Iraq and murdered there 600 000?
- For democracy!
- Oh, it is OK then...

[vinapu]

27 minutes ago, Moses said:

Could you please name one?

Turkey? Erdogan now will be sure, what Kurds will have no shelter anymore. But what it will bring to Turkish people?

Israel? Well I don't know how it will be benefited by existence of one more  radical Islamic regime. Directly on it border.

Jordan? Iraq?

all of them

I was talking about the future which we don't know what brings. Unfortunately one of options is regimes are so preoccupied with surviving and butchering their own people  that their neighbours can breath easily i.e USSR between 1924 -1938 just as an example  

 

[vinapu]

19 minutes ago, Moses said:

The problem is what it not just "democracy" stick pawns, but American "democracy" stick pawns in foreign countries.

Americans have benefits, and countries have "mess". Once again: Gaddafi was bad, pawn was "sticked" and now Libya has 13 years of civilian war and few "governments.

while true , look at benefits - Russian oligarchs are not sending their children to BRICS countries and not buying real estate there but using,  in your speak ' democratic"  countries to shelter their families  and ill gotten gains. No part of Bejing is called Bejjingrad but we have Londongrad in UK , so it must be some advantage , no ? 

I don't even start in which currency they keep their money abroad ? Rand or reais ? I don't think so.

While you have a point about sins of democracies , overall picture , as supported by actions of those mentioned  point to democracy being quite attractive model. At least Asad escaped to Russia , not UK , country he was schooled in. But how long he will use Russia's hospitality ? Week, month ? we will see.

[Moses]

8 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I was talking about the future which we don't know what brings.

Do you know what the President of Serbia answered to a journalist's question about why the country, along with other European countries, is not collecting and sending weapons to help Ukraine in the conflict with Russia?

- It wasn't Russia that bombed us in 1999...