Don't be too shy. Things will get better!

[Min]

2 hours ago, spoon said:

Hope you dont mind me asking, and you dont have to answer me if you dont want to.

Im curious, is J looking for a husband/partner rather than a client? And as far as you know, did he only ever go out with you alone or he will go with others if he feels like it? 

In order to answer your question more thoroughly, here is a bit of history: before he came to Thailand, J. had 2 ex-boyfriends. One is Thai, who he met totally online, dated a few months, even prepared to travel to Thailand to meet then somehow found out that Thai had a local boyfriend. Then he got a Laos boyfriend, who lived in a different province and who used to pick him up on his car (having your own car in Laos rural areas is a big deal so I guess this ex-boyfriend was pretty well-off by the local living standard).

J.'s first and only sexual experiences in Laos, according to him, were with this ex-boyfriend, but "we don't have sex that much because he lives far away." It looks like this boyfriend doted on him and also provided him financial support (J. worked in a shoe factory at the time, which paid minimum wages). Then 7 months later, the same old story: he found out the boyfriend had another boy in yet another province, so cut him out of his life completely. The boyfriend later wanted to get back together, but J. said "No, he hurt me badly with his cheating, I could never forgive".

Then he moved to Thailand and met me. Again, this is what he said: I'm the second person he ever had sex with. He made it clear that he wants a long-term relationship but also that he expects financial support from his partner because he himself is responsible for a big family back home. "My friends have had chances to travel and have fun but all I know since high-school graduation is work and work."

When he introduced me to his mother, he even asked "Can I say you are my boyfriend?" There was a tinge in my heart that he even has to ask for permission. But as he explained, this time the relationship is different. There is a big difference between us in terms of social and financial status, and I'm also his customer from whom he received money in exchange for sexual favors. It's funny that when I travel to his village to meet his family for the first time, the whole village stopped by just to see what J's foreign boyfriend looks like  (Who spread the news, I have no idea, but the gossip mills there obviously just spin as fast as in JC)

Back to your other question, I used to think that he must have other, however limited, sexual encounters with other customers because after all, he needs money and he works in JC. But to this day, I haven't had a single concrete evidence of that.

The whole bar, where he works, knew about us and appeared to cheer for us. After just a few weeks, every time someone saw me, the first thing they said is "J. is blah blah". I once asked the bartender "Why everybody mentioned J. the instant they see me. I'm just one of his customers." And you know what he said. "Because from beginning, you guys never looked like customer and boy. Whenever I see you two together, I see a couple."

I treat many boys in that bar nicely including those I never off, buying them drinks on those "lean" times when they couldn't make one single drink the whole night. Some keep an eye on J. for my sake, give me updates about him when I'm not around, but not a single one ever said he saw J. went to a hotel with a customer. What @gayinpattayawho I believe lives full-time in Jomtien and knows a lot about what's going on in the complex, just said in his comment above, further cemented the belief that he probably never went with another customer. I myself never demand that he can only go with me though, but I did say if he has sex with other customers, always play it safe to protect both of us. 

I know J.'s type (Asian, slim, smooth and fair complexion). There was one time when suspicion raised its ugly head, I decided to test J. (a decision I later regretted) by asking H., a Taiwanese friend, who I know would be J's type, to approach him, posing as a customer. This is a drama in its own right that I may recount another time, but after found out that H. was my friend, J. did tell H. "Min was the only person I have sex with since I arrived in Pattaya" (J. himself never told me this).

1 hour ago, gayinpattaya said:

Eyes and ears everywhere on that Soi, especially down that end. Very little happens without everyone knowing about it. Bored retired gays love to gossip.

Thanks for the info though. That helps

20 minutes ago, reader said:

The boys don’t live by universal principles. Like us, each one is unique and has his own way of proceeding. They way they make their living is fraught with potential problems most of us will never confront. Some of us appreciate this while others remain forever oblivious. 

I'm still trying to learn more about J. and his values in life, and on many occasions, have struggled to understand why he did what he did.

[bkkmfj2648]

20 minutes ago, Min said:

When he introduced me to his mother, he even asked "Can I say you are my boyfriend?" There was a tinge in my heart that he even has to ask for permission. But as he explained, this time the relationship is different. There is a big difference between us in terms of social and financial status, and I'm also his customer from whom he received money in exchange for sexual favors. It's funny that when I travel to his village to meet his family for the first time, the whole village stopped by just to see what J's foreign boyfriend looks like  (Who spread the news, I have no idea, but the gossip mills there obviously just spin as fast as in JC)

As a hopeless romantic, I love what you wrote above.

I wish you and J all the BEST!!

[spoon]

1 hour ago, Min said:

In order to answer your question more thoroughly, here is a bit of history: before he came to Thailand, J. had 2 ex-boyfriends. One is Thai, who he met totally online, dated a few months, even prepared to travel to Thailand to meet then somehow found out that Thai had a local boyfriend. Then he got a Laos boyfriend, who lived in a different province and who used to pick him up on his car (having your own car in Laos rural areas is a big deal so I guess this ex-boyfriend was pretty well-off by the local living standard).

J.'s first and only sexual experiences in Laos, according to him, were with this ex-boyfriend, but "we don't have sex that much because he lives far away." It looks like this boyfriend doted on him and also provided him financial support (J. worked in a shoe factory at the time, which paid minimum wages). Then 7 months later, the same old story: he found out the boyfriend had another boy in yet another province, so cut him out of his life completely. The boyfriend later wanted to get back together, but J. said "No, he hurt me badly with his cheating, I could never forgive".

Then he moved to Thailand and met me. Again, this is what he said: I'm the second person he ever had sex with. He made it clear that he wants a long-term relationship but also that he expects financial support from his partner because he himself is responsible for a big family back home. "My friends have had chances to travel and have fun but all I know since high-school graduation is work and work."

When he introduced me to his mother, he even asked "Can I say you are my boyfriend?" There was a tinge in my heart that he even has to ask for permission. But as he explained, this time the relationship is different. There is a big difference between us in terms of social and financial status, and I'm also his customer from whom he received money in exchange for sexual favors. It's funny that when I travel to his village to meet his family for the first time, the whole village stopped by just to see what J's foreign boyfriend looks like  (Who spread the news, I have no idea, but the gossip mills there obviously just spin as fast as in JC)

Back to your other question, I used to think that he must have other, however limited, sexual encounters with other customers because after all, he needs money and he works in JC. But to this day, I haven't had a single concrete evidence of that.

The whole bar, where he works, knew about us and appeared to cheer for us. After just a few weeks, every time someone saw me, the first thing they said is "J. is blah blah". I once asked the bartender "Why everybody mentioned J. the instant they see me. I'm just one of his customers." And you know what he said. "Because from beginning, you guys never looked like customer and boy. Whenever I see you two together, I see a couple."

I treat many boys in that bar nicely including those I never off, buying them drinks on those "lean" times when they couldn't make one single drink the whole night. Some keep an eye on J. for my sake, give me updates about him when I'm not around, but not a single one ever said he saw J. went to a hotel with a customer. What @gayinpattayawho I believe lives full-time in Jomtien and knows a lot about what's going on in the complex, just said in his comment above, further cemented the belief that he probably never went with another customer. I myself never demand that he can only go with me though, but I did say if he has sex with other customers, always play it safe to protect both of us. 

I know J.'s type (Asian, slim, smooth and fair complexion). There was one time when suspicion raised its ugly head, I decided to test J. (a decision I later regretted) by asking H., a Taiwanese friend, who I know would be J's type, to approach him, posing as a customer. This is a drama in its own right that I may recount another time, but after found out that H. was my friend, J. did tell H. "Min was the only person I have sex with since I arrived in Pattaya" (J. himself never told me this).

Thanks for the info though. That helps

I'm still trying to learn more about J. and his values in life, and on many occasions, have struggled to understand why he did what he did.

Thanks for sharing such intimate details. Seems like J and you have something special, even though it started as a commercial transaction. 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

As a hopeless romantic, I love what you wrote above.

I wish you and J all the BEST!!

+1

[Keithambrose]

7 hours ago, daydreamer said:

There were several web sites with forums years ago that were dedicated to gay Thailand, in addition to the excellent Dreaded Ned site.  

One popular forum was Gay Ting Tong,  run by Oogleman.  This may ring a bell:

 

 

Thanks, but it wasn't that one!

[Min]

Brief update on T. and the Dutch customer, the story that started this thread (as usual, my threads never have a clear focus and I just put down whatever takes my fancy at the moment).

It looks like they are going steady. The customer stops by every day without fail, only sits with T., sometimes for a very long time (the other day, he arrived at 7pm and was still there at 11pm, when I left). There is only one off so far, but the customer will stay here for two more weeks, so WE AT THE BAR all hope for something more substantial out of it. J. stopped T. every time we ran into him to get an update. Yes, we care that much, especially when it comes to a chance for a long-term relationship.

Speaking of long-term relationships, last night I sat with V., currently the oldest boy in the bar (34). He currently dates a farang boyfriend, an American expat, who gives him a generous monthly allowance of 30K Baht and still allows him to work in the bar. "I can sit and go drinking with customers, but no sex. That's his condition. He said if he ever found out that I cheated, he will end our association immediately."

V. already bought a house in his hometown, a few hours away by bus from Pattaya. 16K monthly down payment would come from the aforesaid allowance. He's also been trying to save, earmarked for opening a coffee house in his hometown. "That is one reason my boyfriend allows me to continue to work here. He wants me to do the saving myself." V. told me.

"When I reach my target of 200K, I will stop working in the bar and move back home."

"But what about your boyfriend? He lives here in Pattaya, right?"

"Oh, he will move and live with me in my house. That's our plan for a future together."

According to V., the said boyfriend actually sat in the bar and observed him at work for some time before finally approaching him. Their relationship is still fresh and they do it step by step, At the moment, V.'s been staying with him 3 days a week, aiming for living with each other full-time down the line.

"It seems you guys got it all figured out. Your boyfriend is so thoughtful. You have a good thing going for you. I think you should avoid doing anything that may jeopardize the relationship. Work harder, take good care of him, keep him staying in love with you. Don't risk it just for some quick buck."

"I know. He said he loves me and wants to be with me for a long time. If he keeps his part of promise, I won't cheat. "

"Do you love him?" I asked.

"Actually, at the moment, I only like him." V. was honest with his answer. "But my feeling for him is growing. I want to be with him every day."

When asked about his previous relationships, V. said he was in love with a German guy a while ago. "When he decided to leave Thailand and move back home, I had cried for days because I know I would never see him again. I still miss him sometimes."

"Suppose the German guy comes back to Pattaya right at this moment, what would you do if you have to choose?"

It didn't take long for him to come up with an answer.

"I would sit with him and talk but would not do anything that may break my boyfriend's heart. I know how hurtful it is to have your heart broken. My boyfriend has been good to me. I would not do anything to hurt him." (I wish all those younger boys working in the soi would share the same view).

It's already midnight. I gave V. his tip and told him I want to sit with him again some time in the future to get updates on his relationship.

"J. told me you are a lovely person. Now I think so too." V. said

"You are a lovely person too." I said

So we said goodbyes, feeling happier because both of us are lovely hehehe.

PS. I really like the arrangements made between V. and his boyfriend. Maybe it's time I make a similar deal, officially, with J., (whose own dream is opening a clothes store back in his hometown).

[bkkmfj2648]

@Min I love these intimate updates as they give back the lost hope that living in Pattaya has become too transactional.  It is nice to hear and learn first hand that traditional real love still does exist here.

[floridarob]

9 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

@Min I love these intimate updates as they give back the lost hope that living in Pattaya has become too transactional.  It is nice to hear and learn first hand that traditional real love still does exist here.

Take money out of the equation and see how it goes..... does the love even have a chance to start without it?

"Actually, at the moment, I only like him." V. was honest with his answer. 


The age old story..... no money, no honey 🥺

[gayinpattaya]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

Take money out of the equation and see how it goes..... does the love even have a chance to start without it?

"Actually, at the moment, I only like him." V. was honest with his answer. 


The age old story..... no money, no honey 🥺

I live with a 19 year old Thai boy, who has a job. I don't give him any money.... Never did.
He lives a farang lifestyle on a Thai salary and is happy. 

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, gayinpattaya said:

I live with a 19 year old Thai boy, who has a job.

He pays the rent for you?

[gayinpattaya]

Just now, floridarob said:

He pays the rent for you?

Don't be a moron. He works a Thai job and lives a farang lifestyle. But he takes care of himself. 

[floridarob]

Just now, gayinpattaya said:

But he takes care of himself. 

but you pay the rent.....?

[gayinpattaya]

1 minute ago, floridarob said:

but you pay the rent.....?

I pay the rent for the lease my name is on, yes. It's an all America household!

[floridarob]

2 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

I pay the rent for the lease my name is on, yes. It's an all America household!

Weird, considering you're a Brit 🙄

So this holds true.... living rent free, is money saved 🤷‍♂️
 

 

4 hours ago, floridarob said:

Take money out of the equation and see how it goes..

 

[gayinpattaya]

31 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Weird, considering you're a Brit 🙄

So this holds true.... living rent free, is money saved 🤷‍♂️
 

 

 

Been together 11 months. All good. Go fuck yourself. 

[Keithambrose]

43 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

Been together 11 months. All good. Go fuck yourself. 

Unnecessary  reaction. 

[Olddaddy]

4 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

Unnecessary  reaction. 

Some people are angry at life 😡 

I noticed a lot of angry miserable looking gay expats in Pattaya particularly Jomtien when I was there last month

I recall two of them when I said "it's a lovely day today " ☀️☀️🌞

One replied "is it? with a miserable look on his face ,the other replies"it's never a good day mate living among this lot " 😡😡

I presumed he meant the Thai people I didn't ask I walked away 

That's what my concern would be if I suddenly left my job packed up and moved to Jomtien 

I could end up walking around with a miserable angry look on my face bored out of my mind ,talking to myself as I walk past others swearing under my breath 😡😠

 

 

[Keithambrose]

8 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

Some people are angry at life 😡 

I noticed a lot of angry miserable looking gay expats in Pattaya particularly Jomtien when I was there last month

I recall two of them when I said "it's a lovely day today " ☀️☀️🌞

One replied "is it? with a miserable look on his face ,the other replies"it's never a good day mate living among this lot " 😡😡

I presumed he meant the Thai people I didn't ask I walked away 

That's what my concern would be if I suddenly left my job packed up and moved to Jomtien 

I could end up walking around with a miserable angry look on my face bored out of my mind ,talking to myself as I walk past others swearing under my breath 😡😠

 

 

I think you make a good point. I had supper in Dick's restaurant, and there were a group of eight gay expats who were pretty miserable. 

[vinapu]

15 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

 living in Pattaya has become too transactional. 

at least you have clean beaches and world class entertainment

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, gayinpattaya said:

 

what this is supposed to mean ? Isn't America great already for 100+ years ?

(that bourbon isn't that great by the way)

[vinapu]

23 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

 

That's what my concern would be if I suddenly left my job packed up and moved to Jomtien 

 

Move to Bangkok instead

[vinapu]

15 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

 I had supper in Dick's restaurant, and there were a group of eight gay expats who were pretty miserable. 

may be their chicken with cashew nuts was undercooked? 

[Olddaddy]

I like to dance, I like to laugh.

I did this in Pattaya and got some strange looks from expats

😳"Aren't you too old to be dancing , one asked in Pattaya 

Yes I said ,I should sit here being miserable with you 😜

Oh fuck it...I will dance instead 

Did it in Bangkok and got farangs joining me 🕺🕺😜

 

[Mavica]

3 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

That's what my concern would be if I suddenly left my job packed up and moved to Jomtien 

 

Yes, living someplace is very different than visiting that paradise ... as a tourist.  Many expats have learned that lesson.

[Olddaddy]

8 minutes ago, Mavica said:

Yes, living someplace is very different than visiting that paradise ... as a tourist.  Many expats have learned that lesson.

You have to admit you don't get many Pattaya gay expats as the happiest to talk to,😠of course different from the Bangkok gay expats 😅

I find the straight expats much better to be social with so usually end up on Soi Bukhao or up at Canterbury tales bookshop 😻

At the moment I would rather remain a tourist.

I never forget John aka LMTU let me tell you writing about the "bitter and lemon faced🍋 expats" of Pattaya 

Of course most are dying off now which isn't a bad thing as it brings in a newer modern generation