Don't be too shy. Things will get better!

[MaxBKK]

10 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

The transactional nature of 90% of the places and guys on offer in existence today, renders the experience to be depressing. When I was a tourist and an occassional visitor --> I loved it.  Now that I live here full time I find that it is a big turnoff.

Same-Same. For me, this is one of the trade-offs for living here.

[bkkmfj2648]

1 hour ago, MaxBKK said:

Same-Same. For me, this is one of the trade-offs for living here.

Thank you for confirming this.

The problem in this gayguides.com forum is that the majority of the readership are what I label as:

• seasonals - they live here for part of the year for 4 to 5 months,
• tourists - people on vacation who stay for a maximum of a couple of weeks.

Generally, the above mentioned groups cannot sympathize with what it is like to live here FULL-TIME and consequently, cannot relate or sympathize with the struggle that us who live here full time, in both the low and high seasons, experience on a day to day basis.

I am also guilty.  For many many years, I was in the above mentioned tourist category, and the fact that almost everything here is transactional did not bother me because it was such good value for money when compared with my originating home country.  It never occurred to me that this required transactional nature would grate on me later in my life when I would eventually live here as a full time retiree - and this has unfortunately been an unpleasant trade-off discovery.

A good Thai friend of mine - she told me last month that she thinks that if I did not live in Pattaya (a very transactional type of city) that I would be better off.  The problem is to discover where?  Hua Hin ?  Koh Samui ?  Chiang Mai ?

 

[bkkmfj2648]

3 hours ago, Min said:

"I know customers choose boys, but we choose customers too." In his first day at work, probably because of his good look, big "tool", and new-face freshness, a customer offered to take him for the whole weekend for a generous tip, only to receive a firm NO. The bar staff, when he told that story to me, added "Let's wait until the low season and he'll see."

@Min this is an excellent story and I have also encountered this type of thinking.  I think that these guys who are new to Pattaya and move here from more luxuriously priced markets (Bangkok and/or Phuket) did not do their market research and consequently don't get any (or very few offs) because they hold onto their previous market rates.  Usually 1 of 2 things happens:

1. They adjust their rates to Pattaya rates,
2. They leave Pattaya.

As I highlighted in your above comment - the low season will force his hand when on many nights the Jomtien Complex can be like a ghost town - where the 2 things that are missing are; the tumbleweed, and the punters (potential customers).

[Keithambrose]

6 hours ago, floridarob said:

I met him in Balcony bar as he was there for an Isarn food night, went specifically to say hi and thank him.... he was surprised to find out how "famous" he was, said it was basically a hobby and trying to help people discover gay Bangkok easier. He seemed like a very nice guy.....his site surely helped a lot of us I'm sure.

There was another gay website covering Thailand, as well as Dreaded ned, but I can't remember the name! Can anyone help?

 

Also when did Barbiery (?), on Surawong, appear?

[Olddaddy]

How do full time residents go in high season with boy prices?

I imagine if the boy is being taken by 2 week tourists at high rates they will choose their custom over yours .

[bkkmfj2648]

25 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

How do full time residents go in high season with boy prices?

I imagine if the boy is being taken by 2 week tourists at high rates they will choose their custom over yours

For me - prices don't change - as I pay the same price for all 12 months.  I only pay premium pricing for:

• those visiting from BKK who may command a higher price,
• those who are foreigners visiting from far away places (outside of South East Asia) - who tend to command a higher price

For your second point, I yield on my regulars if they strike luck with a tourist and/or seasonal who is willing to pay much more.  I am genuinely happy for them to get this type of additional business - because if they are smart, they will save this windfall for the dreaded low season.

[spoon]

1 hour ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

It never occurred to me that this required transactional nature would grate on me later in my life when I would eventually live here as a full time retiree - and this has unfortunately been an unpleasant trade-off discovery.

Living and working next door to thailand, i do feel less "attached" to the guys in thailand as much as those who became my regular here. But i guess, since im still working and not looking for anything more than transactional fun, both here and in thailand, i am spared from this feeling. What i do notice is i have plenty more options in thailand that fits my criteria, so much easier for me to find another one if one of my regular thai guys stop working or disappear. Much harder to find a new guy here so, i tend to get a bit more attached i suppose. Only until i find their replacement lol.

Perhaps if i stopped working, as in retired, i might change towards finding more equal partnership/companions. More free time coupled with knowledge that my nest eggs will continue to shrink might expedite that.

[Min]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

How do full time residents go in high season with boy prices?

I imagine if the boy is being taken by 2 week tourists at high rates they will choose their custom over yours .

Actually, many veterans here know better than ditching regular customers, who would continue to support them in difficult times, for a quick buck. If you ask boys in my favorite bar who has the most customers, they would all say "K.", who sometimes had between 20 and 30 drinks in a single night. When I asked him to sit with me for the first time, he actually declined my request (politely of course) because one of his regular customers said he would stop by.

[Min]

I'm in a mood of reminiscence today, so in the spirit of the Bangkokbois and his Dancing with Devil series, I'll relate here some of my own falling in love with a bar boy.
 

I met my special boy, J., in Jomtien a year ago. When we first met, I thought he's the best looking boy in the bar at that time (and that's saying something because that bar is full of boys my type). He told me he only started work 4 days ago, already received quite a few offers for off, but he said no to all of them.

 

"If I don't like and feel comfortable with a customer, I won't go with him to the hotel."

"Would you go with me?" I asked after more than an hour sitting with J., talking about his life back in Laos, his family and also his previous love life.

"Yes." There's no hesitance in his answer.

"For how much?"

"2000"

"Why so much? Other boys only ask for 1500, and many would go for 1000." (to be honest, if he asked for 3000, I would still agree because he's exactly my type - body, face and personality even (and a killer smile to top it off), but I feel it's my obligation to bargain so as not to upset the market and some fellow customers  

 

"I know, but I want 2000."

"Is 1500 ok?"

"No, 2000." J. was firm.

"Why?"

"Because I never go with anyone before and this is my first time." (not sure about the logic of that argument, but I gave up haggling quickly, feeling thankful he didn't ask for 3000).

 

So I paid the bar fine (300), my own drink and the boy drink (150), and off we went to Boyztown, where my hotel is. On the baht bus, I asked him a question I usually ask boys "What type of guys do you like to be your boyfriend?"

"Someone like you." was his answer, again with no hesitance. At that time, I just laughed it off (well, bar boy standard line) and told him exactly what I thought

"You would say that to all customers."

"No, I do not." He seemed upset. After almost a year together, I finally believe he meant what he said that day.

 

The next day, I'm back to the bar in order to off him again. I was early but he's already with a customer, someone from Australia. So I sat with another boy, whom I chose randomly, at a table opposite, so that I could watch what's going at the other table (I know I should not do that but I can't help myself).

 

The customer seemed smitten with J.. He hugged the boy all the time, ordered food from outside, even bought him a bouquet when a door-to-door flower seller stopped by. At my table, ironically, things went the other way around. The boy sitting with me (who happened to be D. also a new boy, who started work as the same time as J.. He is the one who was asked to give a customer 40-min blowjob I talked about in the other thread), seemed very passionate and clingy. He hugged me tight, his hands all over my body, even found their way inside my underwear. He placed my hand on his shorts to show me he's already getting hard. Kept asking me if I want to off him. Unfortunately, my attention was all on the other table.

 

To be fair, the cheerful Australian who sat with J. seems a very nice guy, except that he... sat with J. And then, he paid the off fee. "So much for I only go with someone I like and feel comfortable huh" I thought.

 

Why I felt so upset about a money boy I just met? He's a money boy and that's what he does. I kept reasoning with myself all the way to M-bar, another bar where lots of boys know me. I need a distraction. And you know what, there's that customer again with J. sitting in a dark corner. Obviously, they just moved bar. I don't want to stay there, so I left again. Enough for today, I decided to go back.

 

When I reached my hotel in Boyztown, I got J.'s message. It turned out he only agreed to go drinking in another bar (the customer did ask him for a hotel visit at the end of the night but he turned that down and still received a generous tip of 1500B just for being a companion) and he was free already. J. also seemed upset because he actually checked with D. to see if I eventually offed D. and D. somehow got the idea that I would come back to off him after I'm done with bar hopping. I don't recall saying anything to that effect, but after all, I don't remember whatever I said to D. back in the bar.

 

The third day, I learned my lesson and told J. in advance I will come to take him off. On the bus, I received his message "Where are you? There's a customer who wants to sit with me, so I have to check with you. You want me to wait for you or is it okay I sit with him first?"

 

Of course, I want J. to wait for me, but I also want him to make more money with drinks so told him it's ok to sit with the customer, I could wait until he's free.

 

What a wait it was. The customer, an Asian one and quite young this time, sat with J. for nearly 3 hours through a bunch of drinks, probably trying to get him to agree to a hotel visit. After nearly 2 hours, I got impatient and messaged J, saying if the customer wants to off him, he can go but let me know so that I don't waste my time waiting. "NOOO, I want to go with you" came back the instant answer. Then, I decided to watch the show in M2M bar to kill time. About 45 minutes into the show, I got J.'s message "Come, quick, before I have another customer".

 

It feels like a who-gets-to-the-bar-boy-first competition. I quickly paid the bill, left the show midway, and walked briskly back to the bar. J. literally ran from inside to meet me at the entrance with his stuff. That trip, the only boy I offed is J. and the rest is history.

 

PS. Last night, on our way back to my hotel situated right in JC, J. ran into a customer, who sat with him a few times in the bar.

"Where are you going?" The customer asked on passing by.

"To hotel" J. flashed his irresistible smile, pointing at me.

The customer stopped mid-stride, turned and did a double take. J., to a hotel, with a customer?

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, Patanawet said:

You--- spring chicken.

calling member names is not allowed on this forum, lol

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Min said:

 

It feels like a who-gets-to-the-bar-boy-first competition.

It happens from time to time and long ago I found it to be mood killing as I'm generally not competitive. So now  when I sense it may develop I yield immediately " you go with him , I off you tomorrow ( or another day ) " . Some boys will be happy to switch, some  will stay with me, its how market works sand they should decide what works for them.

And so do we - if I promise tomorrow, I always return. Few times I even paid off fee day in advance.  If I promise another day it may  be few days or few trips away.

If I promise to take boy next day or later today I always tell them when I pick them up. This way they know if they can go or have drink with another client.

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, Min said:

 

There are basically three levels of price for short time

1. Tourist level: 1500B, boys usually ask for 2000B but ready to be bargained down to 1500. Some even maintain two tiers: 1500 for no anal & 2000 with anal. If boys accompany you to another bar for drinking and/or watching shows but no sex involved, they usually expect anything between 500 and 1000 (plus the bar fine).

2. Local expat level: 700B to 1000B

3. Local Thai level: 500B (usually made via apps like Blued and Hornet)

..........................

 

Speaking of Boyz Boyz Boyz, most of their working boys are straight and usually expect at least 3000 from lady customers, who in fact tend to give more. If they are forced to deal with a gay customer, they may ask for 5000 upward either to make it worth their while or simply so that the customer would give up.
............................................ 

I also notice a more noticeable trend of boys picking and choosing customers......................... The bar staff, when he told that story to me, added "Let's wait until the low season and he'll see."

great observations and confirming what I found.

Only thing boys should remember is that market works both ways. Being too firm may yield higher income but also chase customer away , tonight or for good. Boys have choices and I like that part but so do we and I like that part as well . I stopped seeing two great bodied semi-regulars only because one  was too firm asking for more than our regular rate, another one asked to cut our regular 3 hrs session by 1 hr because he had another customer. Fine , good for you and good bye for now.

BoyzBoyzBoyz firmly established itself as boy bar for girls , off fee is ridiculous 1050 and it the wish to ask 5000 just to chase customer away , fine with me , again there are choices nearby, short walk or 2 hrs by bus away. But before we take any offence, they must be doing something right as bar seems to be packed night after night and boys, fully dressed,  are still crowding  the stage. Doesn't appeal for many but certainly does for scores of others   

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

 

Generally, the above mentioned groups cannot sympathize with what it is like to live here FULL-TIME and consequently, cannot relate or sympathize with the struggle that us who live here full time

..............

I am also guilty.  For many many years, I was in the above mentioned tourist category, and the fact that almost everything here is transactional did not bother me because it was such good value for money when compared with my originating home country.  It never occurred to me that this required transactional nature would grate on me later in my life when I would eventually live here as a full time retiree

 

You live in paradise 13 months a year and you expect us, suffering 30 hours trips to get there just to  share your misery for 2-3 weeks to feel sorry  for you ? no way I'd say.

 

as for 2nd part , old advice seem to be lost on you ' you want love in Thailand , rent it"

[gayinpattaya]

4 hours ago, Min said:

I'm in a mood of reminiscence today, so in the spirit of the Bangkokbois and his Dancing with Devil series, I'll relate here some of my own falling in love with a bar boy.
 

I met my special boy, J., in Jomtien a year ago. When we first met, I thought he's the best looking boy in the bar at that time (and that's saying something because that bar is full of boys my type). He told me he only started work 4 days ago, already received quite a few offers for off, but he said no to all of them.

 

"If I don't like and feel comfortable with a customer, I won't go with him to the hotel."

"Would you go with me?" I asked after more than an hour sitting with J., talking about his life back in Laos, his family and also his previous love life.

"Yes." There's no hesitance in his answer.

"For how much?"

"2000"

"Why so much? Other boys only ask for 1500, and many would go for 1000." (to be honest, if he asked for 3000, I would still agree because he's exactly my type - body, face and personality even (and a killer smile to top it off), but I feel it's my obligation to bargain so as not to upset the market and some fellow customers  

 

"I know, but I want 2000."

"Is 1500 ok?"

"No, 2000." J. was firm.

"Why?"

"Because I never go with anyone before and this is my first time." (not sure about the logic of that argument, but I gave up haggling quickly, feeling thankful he didn't ask for 3000).

 

So I paid the bar fine (300), my own drink and the boy drink (150), and off we went to Boyztown, where my hotel is. On the baht bus, I asked him a question I usually ask boys "What type of guys do you like to be your boyfriend?"

"Someone like you." was his answer, again with no hesitance. At that time, I just laughed it off (well, bar boy standard line) and told him exactly what I thought

"You would say that to all customers."

"No, I do not." He seemed upset. After almost a year together, I finally believe he meant what he said that day.

 

The next day, I'm back to the bar in order to off him again. I was early but he's already with a customer, someone from Australia. So I sat with another boy, whom I chose randomly, at a table opposite, so that I could watch what's going at the other table (I know I should not do that but I can't help myself).

 

The customer seemed smitten with J.. He hugged the boy all the time, ordered food from outside, even bought him a bouquet when a door-to-door flower seller stopped by. At my table, ironically, things went the other way around. The boy sitting with me (who happened to be D. also a new boy, who started work as the same time as J.. He is the one who was asked to give a customer 40-min blowjob I talked about in the other thread), seemed very passionate and clingy. He hugged me tight, his hands all over my body, even found their way inside my underwear. He placed my hand on his shorts to show me he's already getting hard. Kept asking me if I want to off him. Unfortunately, my attention was all on the other table.

 

To be fair, the cheerful Australian who sat with J. seems a very nice guy, except that he... sat with J. And then, he paid the off fee. "So much for I only go with someone I like and feel comfortable huh" I thought.

 

Why I felt so upset about a money boy I just met? He's a money boy and that's what he does. I kept reasoning with myself all the way to M-bar, another bar where lots of boys know me. I need a distraction. And you know what, there's that customer again with J. sitting in a dark corner. Obviously, they just moved bar. I don't want to stay there, so I left again. Enough for today, I decided to go back.

 

When I reached my hotel in Boyztown, I got J.'s message. It turned out he only agreed to go drinking in another bar (the customer did ask him for a hotel visit at the end of the night but he turned that down and still received a generous tip of 1500B just for being a companion) and he was free already. J. also seemed upset because he actually checked with D. to see if I eventually offed D. and D. somehow got the idea that I would come back to off him after I'm done with bar hopping. I don't recall saying anything to that effect, but after all, I don't remember whatever I said to D. back in the bar.

 

The third day, I learned my lesson and told J. in advance I will come to take him off. On the bus, I received his message "Where are you? There's a customer who wants to sit with me, so I have to check with you. You want me to wait for you or is it okay I sit with him first?"

 

Of course, I want J. to wait for me, but I also want him to make more money with drinks so told him it's ok to sit with the customer, I could wait until he's free.

 

What a wait it was. The customer, an Asian one and quite young this time, sat with J. for nearly 3 hours through a bunch of drinks, probably trying to get him to agree to a hotel visit. After nearly 2 hours, I got impatient and messaged J, saying if the customer wants to off him, he can go but let me know so that I don't waste my time waiting. "NOOO, I want to go with you" came back the instant answer. Then, I decided to watch the show in M2M bar to kill time. About 45 minutes into the show, I got J.'s message "Come, quick, before I have another customer".

 

It feels like a who-gets-to-the-bar-boy-first competition. I quickly paid the bill, left the show midway, and walked briskly back to the bar. J. literally ran from inside to meet me at the entrance with his stuff. That trip, the only boy I offed is J. and the rest is history.

 

PS. Last night, on our way back to my hotel situated right in JC, J. ran into a customer, who sat with him a few times in the bar.

"Where are you going?" The customer asked on passing by.

"To hotel" J. flashed his irresistible smile, pointing at me.

The customer stopped mid-stride, turned and did a double take. J., to a hotel, with a customer?

OHHH 
That was you? 
Sunee Bar? 

Good job  

[Min]

39 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

OHHH 
That was you? 
Sunee Bar? 

Good job  

Oops. What do you mean by "That was you?" Did we have a chance to talk in the bar?

[gayinpattaya]

27 minutes ago, Min said:

Oops. What do you mean by "That was you?" Did we have a chance to talk in the bar?

Nope. I refuse to step foot anywhere near Sunee Bar, the family who own it also M Bar and Club Lounge, or the violent boys who work there. 
But your reference to a boy J.
Who never went with customers

And a few old fuckers who spent a fortune on drinks and tip but he always refused to go short-time. 
1 year ago.
I am 90% sure I know the boy you mean. If it is him he caused quite a shit storm amount the cheap Charlies. 
I could even take a guess you were the Asian guy who took him to your hotel, and 2 or 3 old fucks were angry for week about that. Funny as 🤣

[Min]

28 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

But your reference to a boy J.
Who never went with customers

And a few old fuckers who spent a fortune on drinks and tip but he always refused to go short-time. 
1 year ago.
I am 90% sure I know the boy you mean. If it is him he caused quite a shit storm amount the cheap Charlies. 
I could even take a guess you were the Asian guy who took him to your hotel, and 2 or 3 old fucks were angry for week about that. Funny as 🤣

You are probably right that you know who J. is. But I’m curious that how some old geezers knew he agreed to go hotel with me that week. We certainly did not advertise that fact.

[floridarob]

11 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Generally, the above mentioned groups cannot sympathize with what it is like to live here FULL-TIME and consequently, cannot relate or sympathize with the struggle that us who live here full time, in both the low and high seasons, experience on a day to day basis.

The ever wise @vinapu said, and it's true.... if you live in Thailand, you can't look forward to visiting Thailand. The best part of Thailand is the looking forward to going, lol

[daydreamer]

16 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

There was another gay website covering Thailand, as well as Dreaded ned, but I can't remember the name! Can anyone help?

There were several web sites with forums years ago that were dedicated to gay Thailand, in addition to the excellent Dreaded Ned site.  

One popular forum was Gay Ting Tong,  run by Oogleman.  This may ring a bell:

 

 

[Min]

11 hours ago, vinapu said:

Only thing boys should remember is that market works both ways. Being too firm may yield higher income but also chase customer away , tonight or for good.

I think many boys are aware of that but they probably also have their own principle(s) to stick too. Early in our relationship, actually when I just started out as his regular customer for a month, I did put that question to J.
"If you agree to have sex with more customers, you can make a lot more money. Why don't you do it? You are working here as a money boy. Sex is, after all, just job."
"No, if I don't have feeling for a guy, I won't have sex with him. Period."
"But you will lose out on a lot of money..."
"Money is not everything. I just try to get what I can."

That conversation was a turning point for me as I started to see him in a different light - a young person of principles. I started to make sure, no matter how many times we met that month, I gave him enough money to live and to send home (a poor family of 8 siblings, all farming, father died of heart problems 2 years ago).

[spoon]

Hope you dont mind me asking, and you dont have to answer me if you dont want to.

Im curious, is J looking for a husband/partner rather than a client? And as far as you know, did he only ever go out with you alone or he will go with others if he feels like it? 

 

[vinapu]

13 minutes ago, Min said:

I think many boys are aware of that but they probably also have their own principle(s) to stick too. 

I agree. Own principles and also own calculations.

They know more about their income stream than us. What we consider generous , they may consider cheap. On another hand customer we will call cheap Charlie,  in boys eyes just threw him life line.

Some also live from day to day and if they make enough today, they resolve to worry tomorrow about tomorrow.

When we think about that , at end of day it's how we handle our own household economy sometimes spending money on things we can't afford  , at other times being ridiculously frugal. 

[floridarob]

29 minutes ago, vinapu said:

When we think about that , at end of day it's how we handle our own household economy sometimes spending money on things we can't afford  , at other times being ridiculously frugal. 

Which is why I have this posted on my social media:

 

[gayinpattaya]

8 hours ago, Min said:

You are probably right that you know who J. is. But I’m curious that how some old geezers knew he agreed to go hotel with me that week. We certainly did not advertise that fact.

Eyes and ears everywhere on that Soi, especially down that end. Very little happens without everyone knowing about it. Bored retired gays love to gossip.

[reader]

The boys don’t live by universal principles. Like us, each one is unique and has his own way of proceeding. They way they make their living is fraught with potential problems most of us will never confront. Some of us appreciate this while others remain forever oblivious.