Don't be too shy. Things will get better!

[Min]

Last night, I sat in my favorite haunt with J., my regular boy, whom I have been taken off almost every day whenever I'm in Pattaya since last Dec (1-year anniversary coming up). As usual, I asked him to pick a friend to sit with us. J., from Laos, called T., another Laos boy, over. He said "Although we are not close, I want to help him. I hardly ever saw he had customers. " 

T. is slim, not bad looking but quiet and reserved in manner (kinda out of place in this kind of bar), and on the older side in terms of barboy age (28). We talked and he indeed had few customers. Been working here for nearly two months, only 4 off so far, not so many drinks either, so he barely made it.

While we were chatting, a customer, who was sitting alone at the next table, looked on with interest. Then he asked me in English if T. is also working in the bar, probably because he was fully dressed while all other boys (including my own) were shirtless. 

Feeling an opportunity is presenting itself, I confirmed and asked if he wanted to sit with the boy, explaining that although T. was sitting with us, I'm more than glad to let him switch tables. The guy appeared he wasn't sure what to do, saying that he's pretty new to the scene and still trying to figure out how things work.

So T. remained at our table but the customer joined in the conversation on a translation-chain basis, meaning he said something to me in English, I Google-translated into Laos then showed it to J. who in turns repeated to T. 

It went like that for a while, and all of a sudden, the customer said loudly, to no one in particular, "It would be better if he takes off his shirt". When that idea finally reached T. down the translation line, he still looked sort of uncertain about what to do.

It was time something needs to be done to speed things up. So I stood up, marched over to T., who was sitting across the table, and took off his shirt with my hands. Then I chaperoned both him and his drink to the next table, and gently pushed him down next to the customer. Now T. can communicate directly with the customer using google translation. Things started going smoother and the customer ordered two more drinks for himself and T. 

The customer is Dutch but lives in Spain. He said he is quite reserved himself so has great affinity for a shy boy like T., who, in the customer's words, obviously was not self-aware of how handsome he is. The customer himself is not bad-looking either, and J. confirmed he checked off several things on a bar boy's list "neat-looking, polite, no body odor, not too old, not too fat."

"I'm not gonna take advantage of the boy the first time we talk. I can't promise that the next time though." He said. Gentlemanly conduct, but me think "Please. He's ready to be taken advantage of. That's why he's working here". 

Then I noticed there was still some (physical) distance between T. and the customer, who sat ramrod straight. I told J., who told T. to get closer. Since T. still didn't look like he knows what to do, I gestured for him to follow my lead: I nudged closer to J., hugged him, rested my head lightly on his shoulder, and placed a peck on his cheek. T., albeit a bit haltingly, followed suit, down to the pecking part. The customer, obviously seeing the whole thing, looked both amused and happy. He declared "I've been here for only three days and I'm already in love!"

Again, I told J., who reminded T. to ask for the customer's contact. They later parted ways with what looks like a big tip for T. and the promise by the customer that he will come back and talk to the boy again tomorrow. 

I believe, he, being such a gentleman, will keep his word. I also believe I would make a good Mamasan in case I need a side job.

To end on a warm note: late into the night, after J. went back to his room, I came back to the bar to watch the soi winding down. I looked inside and saw T., now totally shirtless, dancing energetically with other boys, smiling broadly when he saw me. He seemed to get that confidence boost he needed.

Then I sat at the bar outside, chatted with the bartender and watched people. Somehow I might look a bit lonely and sad, to the point that another gentleman, who'd obviously mistaken me for someone in need of a customer, came to give me a hug upon leaving the bar and whispered in my ear "Don't be too shy. Things will get better!"   

[jason1975]

You have a good heart! ❤️ 

[Olddaddy]

Ask for commission if the customer comes back 💲

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Ask for commission if the customer comes back 💲

you spoiled such romantic story with your mercantile outlook.

Great story by Min and reminded me my first ever bar foray in Bangkok. Mamasan  seeing me being shy and unsure was straight forward " take boy # ...., he knows short time room, you give him xxxx baht, now you pay yyy baht for the bar " and motioned said guy over not even waiting for my reaction. 22 years later I still smile and I'm still shy.

[floridarob]

7 hours ago, Min said:

So I stood up, marched over to T

This seems like a time when marching was definitely warranted.

@vinapu has done a boot camp for fellow travelers/board members.... maybe you can do one for the shy/new guys in the Complex (aka The Jomtien Supertown Complex) and beyond, I'm sure the customers would appreciate guys being a little more direct/interested rather than just staring at their phones 🙏

[gayinpattaya]

Just to be the devils advocate here....
You embarrassed a boy in public and forced him to commit a criminal act. Being shirtless in public when not on a beach is illegal in Thailand. 
You involved yourself, acting like a pimp, in the possible transaction of prostitution. Illegal and illegal again.  

But what the fuck, it's Pattaya! It sounded like a fun night, I hope you enjoyed! 

[12is12]

Vinapu, when claiming u r still shy, u r abusing the english dictionary.....

[Min]

19 hours ago, jason1975 said:

You have a good heart! ❤️ 

Jason, long time no see, but I can see from the other thread that you are doing well

19 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Ask for commission if the customer comes back 💲

Haha, and how much do you think I should ask for my cut? (100B is the norm from what I heard)

16 hours ago, vinapu said:

22 years later I'm still shy.

Except when you check for the "insertion" rite?

12 hours ago, floridarob said:

I'm sure the customers would appreciate guys being a little more direct/interested rather than just staring at their phones 🙏

A little update: the customer made good on his promise. Yesterday, when I entered the bar, the new lovebirds were already busily at it and it wasn't even 9 pm. But it looks like the gentleman wants to take it slow, taking time to get to know the boy better (I like that). He promised he would be back again tonight and probably with an off.

11 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

Being shirtless in public when not on a beach is illegal in Thailand. 

Oops, this is news to me. The other day, I took off my own shirt in the bar so that my boy can massage my shoulder. I wish you were there to warn me about what's legal and what's not

[Mavica]

17 hours ago, vinapu said:

you spoiled such romantic story with your mercantile outlook.

Great story by Min and reminded me my first ever bar foray in Bangkok. Mamasan  seeing me being shy and unsure was straight forward " take boy # ...., he knows short time room, you give him xxxx baht, now you pay yyy baht for the bar " and motioned said guy over not even waiting for my reaction. 22 years later I still smile and I'm still shy.

My first visit to BKK, a certified newbie, the first bar I walked into was Harry's, on Silom Soi 2.  It was rightly touted as a gathering place for farang visitors (many business-types) and where one could get information / updates from other customers or bartenders on gay life / hook-ups in the area.  No chorus line of boys to off that I remember, but a place to start.  I'd learned of it from Dreaded Ned's.  Are there others here that frequented the web forum at Dreaded Ned's? - the best and most current (at the time) BKK info (30+ years ago).  I arrived as a shy first-timer.  😁 Didn't take me long to lose the shyness!  There was a different bar upstairs or next door with twinks who were out for drinks and fun, not working per se (available), and no off fee was required.  I took a few home that trip (some for $, some not); times were different.  Gorgeous, though. DJ Station was across the Soi. Another bar in the same Soi with a sign painted on front "Beer. Bed. Boy. $5". Don't ask.  I'm no longer shy.  Cured.

[gayinpattaya]

2 hours ago, Min said:

Oops, this is news to me. The other day, I took off my own shirt in the bar so that my boy can massage my shoulder. I wish you were there to warn me about what's legal and what's not

It's not enforced really, especially in beach resort areas like Pattaya. But a policeman could pull you aside and demand some cash. 
Did you also know it's against the law to not wear underwear, though I do question how anyone would know without putting their hands down your shorts. 

[Patanawet]

5 hours ago, Mavica said:

the first bar I walked into was Harry's, on Silom Soi 2.  It was rightly touted as a gathering place for farang visitors (many business-types) and where one could get information / updates from other customers or bartenders on gay life / hook-ups in the area.  No chorus line of boys to off that I remember, but a place to start. 

Ye gods Mavica -- how old ARE you?  Must be as old as me!
Harry's was my first bar as well.  Some sort of show with the 'showboys' dancing in the grubbiest shoes I've seen.  The 'ladies' in the show were about as classy as the boys shoes -- but a lot of fun.
At two o/clock Harries closed and we were all ushered through a door at the back into another VERY late bar -- damn the name has just escaped me. (Ciro???)
Next floor up was full of very young lads doing what seemed like 'line dancing'.
Then above that Harry had a gym.
A few doors away was Charlies Bar.  Very long and narrow --- at the end away from the soi was classical music videos. At the soi end was the owner and cash till and porno (for those days) videos.  The owner ,who talked the hind legs off a donkey was  Charlie, who's claim to fame was that he appeared in 'Good Morning Vietnam' as an extra as  a doctor, with about 2 lines of dialogue.
When  Ciros finally closed it was all over to the 24 hour bars at Malaysia Hotel till the early daylight hours.

[Keithambrose]

8 hours ago, Mavica said:

My first visit to BKK, a certified newbie, the first bar I walked into was Harry's, on Silom Soi 2.  It was rightly touted as a gathering place for farang visitors (many business-types) and where one could get information / updates from other customers or bartenders on gay life / hook-ups in the area.  No chorus line of boys to off that I remember, but a place to start.  I'd learned of it from Dreaded Ned's.  Are there others here that frequented the web forum at Dreaded Ned's? - the best and most current (at the time) BKK info (30+ years ago).  I arrived as a shy first-timer.  😁 Didn't take me long to lose the shyness!  There was a different bar upstairs or next door with twinks who were out for drinks and fun, not working per se (available), and no off fee was required.  I took a few home that trip (some for $, some not); times were different.  Gorgeous, though. DJ Station was across the Soi. Another bar in the same Soi with a sign painted on front "Beer. Bed. Boy. $5". Don't ask.  I'm no longer shy.  Cured.

Yes, I remember  dreaded ned. Was, in its time, very useful. I also frequented Soi 2, but cannot  remember bar, but boys and cocks were offered!

[khaolakguy]

2 hours ago, Patanawet said:

At two o/clock Harries closed and we were all ushered through a door at the back into another VERY late bar -- damn the name has just escaped me. (Ciro???)
Next floor up was full of very young lads doing what seemed like 'line dancing'.
 

I was also struggling to remember the name of the bar next to Harries, but you are right that it was Ciros. Harries was upmarket and full of gay thai guys interested in meeting foreigners, who were very much in the minority there. Some of the Thai were freelancers and some were just looking for fun. There were all shapes and sizes including bodybuilders, as the Thai owner was a bodybuilder.

The bar upstairs was called the Garden Bar which opened in the early 70's and was the first gay establishment, probably the first entertainment venue, to open in that Soi, which became initially known as Soi Garden Bar. It had been a speculative investment by Vichai the gay owner of a hairdressers in Silom Road, which became a huge success. It was really a disco marketed at young local gay guys, and some girls, with a DJ, good western disco and soul music and lighting. Some of the crowd were interesting in meeting foreigners and making some pocket money(often spent on clothes), and some were just there to party and dance. But every one loved to dance and the speciality was formation dancing, especially Cha Cha Cha.(The O'Jays/Backstabbers was popular). 

 

 

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Mavica said:

  I'd learned of it from Dreaded Ned's.  Are there others here that frequented the web forum at Dreaded Ned's? - the best and most current (at the time) BKK info (30+ years ago).  

I remember well that mine of information.

All those memories recalled above are nice but I for one I'm glad those free wheeling days  are over and long gone.

Not to dampen anybody's enthusiasm but my most memorable moment from my early days there is kind of nasty one.

Somewhere  between soi 2 and Robinson on the corner , old guy sitting with clearly underaged and even more clearly scared boy   and  whispering " young boy, young boy". For all fun I had in my 36 trips I still recall horror in the eyes of that youngster. Forgive me but whenever I hear about good old days I cringe. I do indeed. But something good and productive came out of that situation - ever since I give wide berth to any guy who even remotely looks  less than mid-20

[khaolakguy]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

All those memories recalled above are nice but I for one I'm glad those free wheeling days  are over and long gone.

Not to dampen anybody's enthusiasm but my most memorable moment from my early days there is kind of nasty one.

 

I don’t think the early days being happily remembered here were particularly free wheeling. The early bars on soi two, Garden, Harries, Ciro were models of decorum compared to the gogo bars of today. In those venues everyone was fully clothed, mostly gay, and no one was paid to be there nor did any venue expect a fee if you made a new friend. Almost romantic in comparison to the transactional nature of most gay bars nowadays!

 Sounds to me like most of these shared memories are from the 70’s/80’s, at least mine are, when Robinsons had yet to be built. So I think your horrible memory comes from a later era.

 Here is a link to an interesting history of Bangkok gay bars, focussing especially on Soi Two. It was created by the gogo bar, New Top Man, that eventually replaced the Garden Bar in the early 2000’s, and the article appeared  in Thai Guys magazine.

 

https://chaidee.fortunecity.ws/topman.html

[Patanawet]

4 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

Soi Garden Bar. It had been a speculative investment by Vichai the gay owner of a hairdressers in Silom Road, which became a huge success. 

 

 

I remember Vichai. Some of my Thai friends were working/visiting  in Garden and Harries and were raided by the police one night. All were taken to the police station and herded into a cell overnight, Vichai included.
Vichai demanded cushions to sit on on the floor and was surrounded like a queen.
The ground floor of Robinson's was 'Dairy Queen' and was a notorious area for young, probably illegal, boys.

[bkkmfj2648]

3 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

The early bars on soi two, Garden, Harries, Ciro were models of decorum compared to the gogo bars of today. In those venues everyone was fully clothed, mostly gay, and no one was paid to be there nor did any venue expect a fee if you made a new friend. Almost romantic in comparison to the transactional nature of most gay bars nowadays!

Wow - I am so happy to hear this news about how the past was less transactional.

If only we could have these types of places now in 2024.  The transactional nature of 90% of the places and guys on offer in existence today, renders the experience to be depressing. When I was a tourist and an occassional visitor --> I loved it.  Now that I live here full time I find that it is a big turnoff.

[Mavica]

6 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

The bar upstairs was called the Garden Bar ...

 

 

Yes, the Garden Bar!  Great memories.

[Mavica]

10 hours ago, Patanawet said:

Ye gods Mavica -- how old ARE you?  Must be as old as me!

The ripe age of 75.  Not too ripe, though!

[Keithambrose]

My first visit was business in 1977. I remember  being taken to a kind of brothel. I was propostioned by a taxi driver, 'you like boy' etc. No idea where we went. I was staying in the hotel with circular windows, off Silom, still there. I think it was the Holiday Inn then. Was offered attractive  boy, with snake tattoo on lower chest, with open fangs over his pubic hair! Good sex, he swallowed. He must have spoken some English, as he came to my hotel the following  night!

[daydreamer]

20 hours ago, Mavica said:

the first bar I walked into was Harry's, on Silom Soi 2. 

I remember Harry's Bar well. 

20 hours ago, Mavica said:

Are there others here that frequented the web forum at Dreaded Ned's? - the best and most current (at the time) BKK info (30+ years ago).

Yes, in the 1990's, Dreaded Ned's forum was the top web forum for info.  Here's a blast from the past for those that remember the web site with a bucket on its head:

 

 

 

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Wow - I am so happy to hear this news about how the past was less transactional.

If only we could have these types of places now in 2024.  

I'm happy with what we have now as I can't find use for last winter's  snow, however white and soft it was 

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, daydreamer said:

Yes, in the 1990's, Dreaded Ned's forum was the top web forum for info.  Here's a blast from the past for those that remember the web site with a bucket on its head:

I met him in Balcony bar as he was there for an Isarn food night, went specifically to say hi and thank him.... he was surprised to find out how "famous" he was, said it was basically a hobby and trying to help people discover gay Bangkok easier. He seemed like a very nice guy.....his site surely helped a lot of us I'm sure.

[Min]

Some SHORT-TIME price updates for Pattaya (based on boys' input)
 

There are basically three levels of price for short time

1. Tourist level: 1500B, boys usually ask for 2000B but ready to be bargained down to 1500. Some even maintain two tiers: 1500 for no anal & 2000 with anal. If boys accompany you to another bar for drinking and/or watching shows but no sex involved, they usually expect anything between 500 and 1000 (plus the bar fine).

2. Local expat level: 700B to 1000B

3. Local Thai level: 500B (usually made via apps like Blued and Hornet)

 

When J., my boy, heard about that 500B deal, he laughed out loud and said "It's ridiculous!" He was probably spoilt by the 3000B I normally give him, but I told him to put himself in other boys' shoes. If you are alone in a foreign country, far away from home, and you have no steady income, no boyfriend/regular customers to turn to when in need, you probably would do anything just to survive.

 

There is a Thai boy named Th., who just moved to Pattaya last month from Bangkok. He's currently working in JC's M-bar, where most of the boys are freelancers. 18 years old, gay but straight-acting, quite good-looking (tall, silk smooth skin with fine facial features, slim but not too fit). I asked if he had many offs since he moved here, and he said no, mostly drinks. Why? You are pretty! Because when customers approached him, he asked for 3000B (because he got paid like that in Bangkok) and they all bargained down that price by an absurd amount (some even started from hundreds up!). I told him, with that level of expectation, he should move to a more touristy area, like Boyztown. Actually, he would have the best chance at Boyz Boyz Boyz, but too bad that the bar's age limit was upped to 21 about a year ago.

 

Speaking of Boyz Boyz Boyz, most of their working boys are straight and usually expect at least 3000 from lady customers, who in fact tend to give more. If they are forced to deal with a gay customer, they may ask for 5000 upward either to make it worth their while or simply so that the customer would give up.

I also notice a more noticeable trend of boys picking and choosing customers. K., a very attractive Laos boy, who just started working in Jomtien a few weeks ago (he was a Mor lam dancer back in Laos), told me "I know customers choose boys, but we choose customers too." In his first day at work, probably because of his good look, big "tool", and new-face freshness, a customer offered to take him for the whole weekend for a generous tip, only to receive a firm NO. The bar staff, when he told that story to me, added "Let's wait until the low season and he'll see."

[Patanawet]

8 hours ago, Mavica said:

The ripe age of 75.  Not too ripe, though!

You--- spring chicken.