Is Smoking Inevitable in Thailand's Gay Bars?

[Guest fountainhall]

I was speaking with a friend in Bangkok last night about smoking in bars. It is, of course, illegal, and there have been comments on this Board before about its prevalence in almost all the go-go bars.

 

Two friends were in Solid bar one evening last week. There were, they told me, only about 7 boys

[TotallyOz]

Every bar I have been into in Bangkok allows smoking. Super A is a cigarette haven! I had to leave one night as it was nothing but smoke. But, had the right boy have been there, I would have endured.

[Guest ronnie4you]

Cigarettes and cigars should be banned from production in the first place. The damage they do is incredible.

[Guest]

Cigarettes and cigars should be banned from production in the first place. The damage they do is incredible.

People should be free to smoke, providing they do it outdoors in a location where they will not inconvenience non-smokers. You have to allow people freedom to make their own decisions, providing they do not trouble other people.

Smoking indoors in public buildings should obviously be banned.

 

Once you ban smoking, then alcohol would be next, then anything with the slightest health risk such as burgers, promiscuous sex etc. The whole thing is a sliding scale.

[kokopelli]

Just my opinion, but it seems that many of these smokers are from certain European countries where they think they have a right to smoke anywhere and, of course, the Russians who couldn't care less.

[Gaybutton]

A phrase I often use is a law is not a law unless it's enforced. In Thailand, there are many more examples of that besides the indoor smoking ban. Start with the law against under-age boys working in bars. Once in a while the police enforce that one, but obviously not often enough to totally end it. In Pattaya there is a 90 decibel music volume limitation. That one was enforced for about two weeks after it came into effect. It hasn't been enforced since.

 

Then there are the bar closing hours, unlicensed vendor encroachment on public property, unlicensed building on public property, the regulation that metered taxis must actually use the meter, etc. Even when the sale of alcohol is prohibited during certain holidays, I still see people buying all the liquor they want in many convenience stores.

 

Even though I'm a smoker, I still see no reason why anyone, including me, who wants to smoke can't just step outside to do it. What's the hard part about that? I would have thought in this day and age people would be well aware that others do not wish to be subjected to the smoke and the law makes it perfectly clear that is is not allowed. Meanwhile, many of the bars still permit smokers to smoke all they want. They even provide the ashtrays. I don't know of a single incident in which a bar or customer was ever actually fined for violating that law.

[Guest luvthai]

If entering a bar and I see a lot smoking I usually just turn around and leave making sure to tell someone why I left. It does no good to argue but at least they know why I won't stay.

New York City has banned all outside smoking in parks and public places. Not sure how they can enforce such a large area as Central Park but we shall see.

[KhorTose]

People should be free to smoke, providing they do it outdoors in a location where they will not inconvenience non-smokers. You have to allow people freedom to make their own decisions, providing they do not trouble other people.

Smoking indoors in public buildings should obviously be banned.

 

Once you ban smoking, then alcohol would be next, then anything with the slightest health risk such as burgers, promiscuous sex etc. The whole thing is a sliding scale.

 

I am 100% in agreement. Prohibitions do not work, and they often make the problem worse. Regulate the usage and add a tax for the damage it cost to average taxpayers (health care cost, e.g.) and let people make their own decisions about their lives, even if you disagree or think such decisions are harmful.

[Guest]

After smokers poisoned me for years when it was permitted in pubs & bars, it's only fair that I should now receive a dividend income from tobacco companies as "compensation". Banning the sale of cigarettes would just move the trade to the mafia & would damage the legitimate interests of investors.

[Guest fountainhall]

A phrase I often use is a law is not a law unless it's enforced.

I totally agree. Another you could have mentioned is the use of hand-held mobile phones whilst driving. I am glad the law is on the books, but what is the point when in fact it cannot be enforced? With so many cars having darkened windows, it's impossible to see most of the many drivers who do this - regularly.

 

It was sobering to see a rerun of Oprah's show the other evening. An expert at the University of Utah who has been studying the effect of distracted driving stated that the brain just cannot multitask as we think it can. Talking on a cell phone quadruples the chances of being involved in a crash. Texting increase the crash risk by 8 times. These are facts that should be hammered home in schools.

[Guest blazer]

It is unfortunate that these establishments see it in their best interest to allow smoking in violation of the law to appease their smokers. I really can't stand it very long in a smoking establishment. Apparently they believe their customer base is the smoker rather than the non-smoker. And they are willing to let their non-smokers go. If that is the case, I won't be patronizing them at all.

[KhorTose]

. These are facts that should be hammered home in schools.

Another way, rather then prohibition to deal with behavior that can be considered harmful, education. No need to exaggerate the dangers, just point the real dangers out and it will cause many people to change their behavior. Cigarette usage may not be curbed in Pattaya, but in the Western world the message is there and it is loud and clear and it definitely has worked.

[Guest ryanasia]

I was speaking with a friend in Bangkok last night about smoking in bars. It is, of course, illegal, and there have been comments on this Board before about its prevalence in almost all the go-go bars.

 

Two friends were in Solid bar one evening last week. There were, they told me, only about 7 boys

[Guest fountainhall]

The whining about him having boys sounds like jealousy and a reaction to him not enforcing the rule your friends perceived to be so important.

I will ask them, but knowing them, I doubt if that was the case. After all, if they were that annoyed about it, they would have just turned around and left - as I understand some other likely customers did. There are several other bars in that area within 50 meters of Solid.

 

In recent years, there has been a lot of talk about bars going out of business because they just do not cater to the changing needs of the customer. I believe my friends' concern was genuinely that the owner is shooting himself in the foot financially when there are only 2 boys to entertain new customers and yet he is monopolising a group of them. But then, perhaps he is running the business for his own enjoyment, which of course is his prerogative.

 

They could always enforce the law that says prostitution is illegal. Then you would not have the worry about these smokey gogo bars that openly disobey the smoking law.

But the bars are not about "prostitution" - in Thai thinking. I believe there is nothing against the law in owning and operating a bar with skimpily clad boys or girls. There is nothing against the law in levying a bar fine if a customer wishes to take a boy/girl 'off'. What happens during the 'off' is not the bar's concern. If the bars/boys are charging a fee specifically for sexual services, that certainly is prostitution. Providing a tip at the customer's discretion gets round the problem rather nicely. (Providing a tip to the BIB also not only helps - it keeps the wheels turning! )

[Guest ryanasia]

We all know the gogo bars are all about prostitution. The BIB know this as well. To say gogo bars have nothing to do with prostitution is a bit naive.

 

As far as your friends go I had no intention of saying they are jealous if it was some other people. Just felt it was odd to mention that particular fact in this thread which is about smoking.

 

My pooint about the smoking law not being enforced still stands though. Do you really want the BIB to enforce all laws equally? It would become like America. And we know in the USA there is no sex in the champagne room.

 

 

Anyway I appreciate the civility of your reply. I am used to boards that can get quite ugly.

[Bob]

But the bars are not about "prostitution" - in Thai thinking.

 

If by "Thai thinking" you're just trying to indicate that the Thais don't think of prostitution in the same negative/puritanical way many westerners do, I agree with you; otherwise, not (the Thais are fully cognizant that the gogo bars and other "off" bars are solely about making money through the sale of booze and sex). And both the bars and boys are making money through sales of both.

 

For whatever reason, they don't enforce the prostitution laws and, frankly, I'm quite happy they don't.

 

Back a little closer to the thread topic, I'm a smoker (sorta embarrassing to admit it) but one who strongly believes that the no-smoking law ought to be strictly enforced within buildings for both health and safety reasons. But I guess the best answer to why they don't is simply "TIT" [trying to understand why they enforce helmet laws on some days and don't on other days, rarely enforce many traffic laws (excepting when the cops are hungry), etc., is simply beyond rational explanation in my view].

[Guest fountainhall]

Just felt it was odd to mention that particular fact in this thread which is about smoking.

Agreed. I guess I felt it was an interesting aside as it was part of the narrative as told to me. If an owner puts his own desires ahead of those of his customers, I think that's probably one reason why a bar does not make a profit.

 

If by "Thai thinking" you're just trying to indicate that the Thais don't think of prostitution in the same negative/puritanical way many westerners do, I agree with you

Partly that - and partly also legally. As I understand it, prostitution must involve some sort of fee payment. The bars themselves do not levy a fee for sexual services - merely a small 'off' fee for depriving themselves of a drinks income from a boy who is offed. Legally, if the bar levied, say, Bt. 1,200 short time or Bt. 1,700 long time, that becomes prostitution. But a customer providing a tip 'at his discretion' helps muddy the already murky legal waters. Of course, everyone knows what is really going on. But it, I think, helps the Thais rationalise and accept what is still technically illegal behaviour. And as we know all to well, the bar business for farang is a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what goes on around the country for Thais.

[Guest patpat]

Smoking seems to be inevitable in bars in Thailand, period. The management in many places indicate their acceptance of this by supplying ash trays. This is a good example of the selective application of the law in Thailand.

 

Last weekend, I was in a well-known and well-advertised straight bar off Walking Street that I have frequented over the years eating a bar meal when a guy right beside me lit up and started blowing smoke. This is just the height of ignorance and inconsideration. Anyway, I finally moved to a different table, but judging from the blank expression on the smoker's face I'd say he was totally oblivious to the fact that he'd caused my move. I'm a pretty non-confrontational sort of person even with a few beers inside me, and I have had some bad experiences in the past when I've challenged smokers. But having said all of this, many smokers are sensitive to the effect their smoke has on others.

[ChristianPFC]

I think there are a few gogo bars that don't allow smoking. So it is not inevitable.

 

If I remember correctly, Krazy Dragon is one of them, and there are a few in Bkk as well (I have to check before my next holiday, as a non-smoker I prefer to spend time in bars with no smoke and therefore these will be high on my list).

 

So it is possible to run a bar and not allowing to smoke inside! (Contrary to what bar-owners say: they will lose customers)

 

I think not providing ashtrays is a good hint to smokers, however I witnessed in one bar a guest lighting a cigarette first and then asking for an ashtray (I was wondering if he was going to let the ash fall down to the floor).

[Bob]

For what it's worth, I haven't seen smoking in the gogo bars in Chiangmai and each place has a somewhat decent place set aside outdoors for people that want to indulge. The open-air places (such as the night market bars) do allow smoking.