Investment tips

[Guest voldemar]

I, generally speaking, hate people who give investment tips. Mostly because that even among professionals there are very few who are capable to give reasonable advice on investment choices. However, the life getting tougher for people living on fixed income, especially expats, and it would be nice if we could exchange our views within one integrated thread. I, of course, mean broader discussion. E.g. Americans face more and more constraints with offshore investments. Paradoxically, American expats have difficulties with their US brokerage accounts. I already had opportunity to mention in my previous posts that current Obama administration passed several new laws which substantially restrict economic freedom of Americans, especially when they are fully enacted in 2013. As a new example of such measures, there are new requirements (which will be enacted THIS MARCH 31) regarding reporting offshore financial accounts to the Department of Treasure. In particular, the concept of Foreign Financial Account (FFA) was extended to include various insurance products and various ways to keep gold offshore (through certificates, gold accounts and even certain type of vaults). It is all should be now reported to Uncle Sam starting this June...

There are people on this message board who extensively travel (e.g. Fountainhall)

and it would be greatly appreciated if they could inquire while they travel about possibility of offshore banking and brokerage accounts, safe-deposit boxes and vaults for nonresidents etc in the countries which they happen to visit...

I, by the way, noticed that my Thai bank (Kasikorn) actively promotes online investment services... Is it available for expats?

I think I gave a general idea what can be discussed in the thread like this...

Many can say, well, I do not care... Believe me you will and much sooner then you think...

[Up2u]

Many Americans may not be aware, if they have > $10,000 in a foreign account they must report this to the IRS by June 30 of each calendar year. This is not Obama's law but has been law for years. There are both civil and/or criminal penalties.

 

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html

[Guest voldemar]

Many Americans may not be aware, if they have > $10,000 in a foreign account they must report this to the IRS by June 30 of each calendar year. This is not Obama's law but has been law for years. There are both civil and/or criminal penalties.

 

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html

Surely, this is not Obama law. However, what is supposed to be reported was significantly extended starting THIS YEAR by Obama administration.

[Up2u]

Surely, this is not Obama law. However, what is supposed to be reported was significantly extended starting THIS YEAR by Obama administration.

 

True, and here is a draft of the new instructions. I really can't see how an American retiree in Thailand will be impacted by these changes.

 

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/fbar_instructions_final.pdf

[Guest voldemar]

True, and here is a draft of the new instructions. I really can't see how an American retiree in Thailand will be impacted by these changes.

 

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/fbar_instructions_final.pdf

All Americans with offshore investments of any kind (excluding real estate) will be effected by these instructions including, of course, related expats in Thailand .

I,of course, hope that discussion will move beyond this particular issue and I have much more to say. However, I will not if others are not interested. It always amazed me that people are not willing to discuss issues of critical importance for them but are happy to engage in meaningless discussions like gay massage in Pattaya...

[Bob]

Well, the board is named "Gay Thailand" which might account for the average person here being more interested in a massage than a given investment.

 

Most of us here are old enough to have investment experience and I am quite satisfied with what I'm doing and not looking for any new advice. I've run into enough financial people to not trust what most of them say in any event.

 

For those who aren't US citizens, I don't understand why you care about what we do or don't have to report. I'm a US citizen and I have no problem in reporting to the US my overseas accounts or what I own here as I don't dodge taxes in any manner (and the laws generally were made for those who are wealthy and have failed to report income on foreign investments) (although there also are other reasons for the reporting laws - including trying to catch money launderers, drug dealers, and those financing certain terrorist organizations).

 

I'd also note that I don't have any problem in handling from Thailand a couple of brokerage accounts I have back in the US. I realize some are saying that things are getting more difficult and the sky is falling - but it isn't for me at all. In fact, it's as easy as a few computer clicks away to pay my bills through my US bank account, buy or sell stocks, etc.

[Up2u]

I'm like Bob. I have international funds managed by my broker and pay my taxes on these funds as it is my duty as an American citizen. I make no attempt to hide money in foreign accounts and not pay my taxes. These rules are not a burden for me.

[Guest]

Being UK resident, I have no experience of the US tax system. However, I think it's generally sensible to try & maximize investment returns and minimise taxation.

 

In the case of the UK, it seems we pay large amounts of tax to subsidise the idle who never have any intention of contributing to the economy. The moment we decide to retire abroad, the state pension is no longer inflation indexed & we get no assistance with healthcare, despite the fact the overseas healthcare may cost a lot less than in the UK.

Such policies are immoral and seem designed to reward indolence rather than encourage people to work hard & invest.

I think it's very fair to discuss investment themes here, particularly if the thread has a clear title that's visible to those who are not interested in the topic.

[Up2u]

Every society has it's deadbeats and those that try to abuse the system.

 

American's SSA payments are indexed no matter where we live. However, one could make an argument that when we are not living in our home country we should not benefit from an index that is based on our home country's inflation. My SSA will be direct deposited to my U.S. bank account. How the UK government know you living outside the country and index accordingly? Do you think those with a vested interest, the AMA (American Medical Association or UK equivalent), the national hospitals and pharmaceutical companies are going to subsidize or permit out-sourcing of medical services (even if there is a benefit to the system and the taxpayer or the medical beneficiary)? They are simply too powerful.

[Guest voldemar]

Well, the board is named "Gay Thailand" which might account for the average person here being more interested in a massage than a given investment.

 

Most of us here are old enough to have investment experience and I am quite satisfied with what I'm doing and not looking for any new advice. I've run into enough financial people to not trust what most of them say in any event.

 

For those who aren't US citizens, I don't understand why you care about what we do or don't have to report. I'm a US citizen and I have no problem in reporting to the US my overseas accounts or what I own here as I don't dodge taxes in any manner (and the laws generally were made for those who are wealthy and have failed to report income on foreign investments) (although there also are other reasons for the reporting laws - including trying to catch money launderers, drug dealers, and those financing certain terrorist organizations).

 

I'd also note that I don't have any problem in handling from Thailand a couple of brokerage accounts I have back in the US. I realize some are saying that things are getting more difficult and the sky is falling - but it isn't for me at all. In fact, it's as easy as a few computer clicks away to pay my bills through my US bank account, buy or sell stocks, etc.

Thank you, Bob. I would love to see this thread to take off and you always coming to the rescue..

First of I have absolutely nothing against discussing massage places. What I said is that it does not make sense to discuss gay massage parlors in Pattaya. Those who enjoy this type of entertainment would be much better off in BKK or even Chiang Mai. Unfortunately, Pattaya is not famous for the quality of this type of services and it is pretty well-known.

IMHO, of course.

Secondly, I am glad to hear that you have no problems with complying with US reporting requirements, enjoy your brokerage US accounts and do not need any financial advice.

It is, however, not the case with many others. Nor, unfortunately, anybody can guarantee that even you will be equally lucky in near future.

E.g. there are many cases where expats start loosing access to their US brokerage accounts and were forced to close it. It is quite obvious that US dollar is loosing its purchasing power which is reflected in less and less favorable exchange rates. Many observers noticed that dollar is loosing its safe-haven status. Even as we speak, despite the turmoil all over the world, dollar continue to weaken. E.g. US dollar is currently 0.9 Swiss Franc and was at parity just a month or so ago. I mention Swiss Franc because its safe-heaven status is rock solid. The price of Gold, Silver is going through the roof...

Simaltaneously, US government is totally broke and it is US citizens who eventually will be responsible for the debt burden. Vast majority of Americans who are moving their assets offshore are not tax cheats or money launderers as you seem to suggest. These are the people who are trying to preserve what they have in light of quite obvious threats of capital controls, confiscations and other restrictions which are coming , cause under current crazy government spending grabbing their wealth is the only way to meet untenable government obligations. Therefore, I think (especially for expats) it makes a lot of sense to discuss possible strategies of wealth preservation under rapidly deteriorating conditions.

[Bob]

Vast majority of Americans who are moving their assets offshore are not tax cheats or money launderers as you seem to suggest. These are the people who are trying to preserve what they have in light of quite obvious threats of capital controls, confiscations and other restrictions which are coming , cause under current crazy government spending grabbing their wealth is the only way to meet untenable government obligations. Therefore, I think (especially for expats) it makes a lot of sense to discuss possible strategies of wealth preservation under rapidly deteriorating conditions.

 

I have no problem at all with the notion of anybody discussing investment options and strategies. And some of what might be discussed here and elsewhere may very well be helpful to somebody. The key is whether the reader actually knows enough to be able to sort out what's accurate, wise, or practical. Most of us, I'd guess, are 50 to 70 years old and, if such a person hasn't already gotten to that age by doing something fairly intelligent about planning for his financial future, there's probably not too much hope (let alone time) left to do so. But I suppose anything follows the maxim of "better late than never."

 

Frankly, I'm a firm believer in the old adage that one should never put at risk (meaning to "invest" or "gamble with") any money that you'll need within the next few years. And I also tend to believe that how conservative you should be in investing other funds is directly proportional to your age (i.e., not much sense in a retired guy in his 60's who's assets and sources of income are adequate for present and future needs to risk very much in changing that equation).

 

That "vast majority" of Americans you refer to that are moving their assets offshore consitute in reality an extremely small proportion of the population. Most Americans(90%?) don't have assets they can move elsewhere and my guess is that the vast majority of people who are actually doing the "offshore movement" are rather wealthy in the first place. More power to them but they don't garner any concern or sympathy by me (except to the small degree that they might cause me to pay some more taxes because some might be evading their obligations).

[Up2u]

I just bought a Japanese mutual fund and a few years back I bought a condo here in Pattaya. I guess that qualifies as moving assets offshore.

[Guest voldemar]

 

 

Frankly, I'm a firm believer in the old adage that one should never put at risk (meaning to "invest" or "gamble with") any money that you'll need within the next few years. And I also tend to believe that how conservative you should be in investing other funds is directly proportional to your age (i.e., not much sense in a retired guy in his 60's who's assets and sources of income are adequate for present and future needs to risk very much in changing that equation).

 

That "vast majority" of Americans you refer to that are moving their assets offshore consitute in reality an extremely small proportion of the population. Most Americans(90%?) don't have assets they can move elsewhere and my guess is that the vast majority of people who are actually doing the "offshore movement" are rather wealthy in the first place. More power to them but they don't garner any concern or sympathy by me (except to the small degree that they might cause me to pay some more taxes because some might be evading their obligations).

And I think your approach is very prudent. But what does it mean in practical terms?

One can, say, put what you need in the next few years in US CD which will pay you, say, 2 percent. Meanwhile, Thai baht will reach 20 to US dollar. You thought you have adequate funds and in reality it is not. Or even worse, while CD is maturing, you find out that you can move overseas only limited amount of money not sufficient to cover your expenses...

Alternatively, you are moving 200K to Thailand in Thai baht account to cover your next five years. Suddenly, political situation in the country deteriorates and you find out

that you cannot move the money out of country (due to already existing) capital controls..

You are probably right about 90 percent of Americans (or perhaps slightly less) and though you may not be sympathetic with remaining ones but as an expat or at least someone who spends substantial amount of time overseas you to some extent closer to remaining 10...

[Guest fountainhall]

Most of us, I'd guess, are 50 to 70 years old and, if such a person hasn't already gotten to that age by doing something fairly intelligent about planning for his financial future, there's probably not too much hope (let alone time) left to do so. But I suppose anything follows the maxim of "better late than never."

I very much regret that I for one have fallen into such a crack. I won't go into detail other than to say I got badly burned by one highly recommended investment adviser who, 22 years ago, I had asked to invest safely and conservatively what was then quite a lot of cash, as it was to form the basis of a pension. To start with, it seemed fine. Then I took my eye of the ball. When I next checked, it had dropped almost 40%. The reason I was given? The fund was over exposed to Japan "but it will bounce back!" Well, we know what happened then! In hindsight, I should have threatened to sue, since my instructions were very clearly not carried out. But I'm sure we've all been there, done that. Since then, a combination of the Asian economic crisis, the dot.com bubble. SARS and the world recession have seen my largely Asian-based savings stuck at a level that is too low for me to retire. The one asset of value I do have is a small apartment near the CBD in Bangkok. If the worst comes to the worst, I could sell it to release the capital and then rent.

 

When I was in my twenties in the UK, endowment assurance policies were the 'guaranteed' way to build up savings securely. The longer you saved, the bigger the returns, and so I took out a couple of 40-year policies. But it gradually became obvious after the burst of the dot-com bubble that these long term savings vehicles work well in boom times, and much less so in times of bust – although the capital sum and declared bonuses remain intact. Because of the recent recession, though, the final surrender value of my policies will end up a good 40% less than the prediction 12 years ago!

 

I therefore have no choice but to continue working. Mind you, I enjoy my work and so that is no hardship. But I do have to be much more careful where my cash is parked.

 

So, if only for that reason, even though I travel around the region quite a bit, I do not think I am a good vehicle for spotting investment opportunities. I rate myself not quite as low as Bernie Madoff - but not much higher! I'm now more interested in finding places where I can park cash and enjoy a reasonable rate of return. Like z909 my British pension will be frozen when I eventually start to draw it down - and £100 or so per week goes not much further than a couple of bar outings. I will have various other sources of income falling due soon, and that cash has to be safe and secure. As a permanent resident of Hong Kong, I have the benefit of investing directly in renminbi bonds, which a lot of people are now highly recommending, partly in view of the country's continuing economic expansion, and partly the near certainty of an increase in value of the currency over the medium to long-term. I am also looking at a small amount of direct investment in China via the Hong Kong stock market, and a more secure holding of mutual funds liked to greater China (mindful now, though, of putting too may eggs into one basket). Hong Kong has no tax on investment income and capital gains. On the other hand, I believe the USA – and Britain? – requires such profits to be declared and then taxed at home, and so Hong Kong’s tax-free status doesn’t help much. Setting up an offshore vehicle in Hong Kong is easy. But since I have never done it, I am not sure of the benefits for non-Hong residents.

 

The only other ‘tip’ I have had in the last few days (from a mega rich lawyer friend) is to look seriously at Korea for the short-medium term. With some manufacturing in Japan severely affected by the earthquake, other countries like Korea and Taiwan will be rapidly ramping up production to make up the shortfall. But after putting money there, no doubt North Korea would invade and Taiwan would be struck by its next earthquake. Such is my luck in money matters!

[Guest voldemar]

I would like to start a discussion in practical terms. I will give an example of a concrete investment decision I just made and I hope others will join with their own examples.

In low interest rate environment, it would be nice to come up with relatively safe investment with slightly higher than usual yield. For some reasons I need to keep substantial funds in New Zealand. New Zealand Dollar is not exactly star performer

and recently they lowered interest rates by 0.5 percent (to 2.25 I think) to offset the consequences of recent Christchurch earthquake. I have decided to launch 6 month term deposit with 4 percent interest paid (on annual basis).

Pluses:

1. Getting some real cash

 

2. Relatively short term. No chance they will raise interest rate above 4 percent in six months. Thus, better than ordinary savings account

Minuses

1. Could get much better deal in Aussi Dollar in Australia but need to keep funds in NZ

 

2. NZ Dollar may sink (not probable in short term).

I think it is pretty conservative investment...

and give some idea why offshore investments make sense...

[Guest fountainhall]

I think it is pretty conservative investment...

and give some idea why offshore investments make sense...

My problem with investments is that I have too often felt like I am in Las Vegas. I want better returns! And I end up paying the same price as most who gamble. But is a 2% real return on a six-month investment, realistically a good investment - given a possible adverse currency swing? In other words, is the slightly higher return worth that risk? Isn't an investment in, say, a basket of currencies a better 'bet'? Is there such a vehicle?

[Bob]

But is a 2% real return on a six-month investment, realistically a good investment - given a possible adverse currency swing?

 

Presuming I have your question right, I'd answer "in this economic environment, yes!" Presuming you regularly watch the investment, you retain the power to pull the investment if you see the adverse currency swing you mention. For a 6-month time period, US banks are giving much less than 1% interest (that's calculated on an annual basis!) so I wouldn't consider more than doubling what I can get from a US bank chicken feed.

 

For the non-investment monies (monies that you won't need for at least a few years), this sounds like a reasonbly prudent way to handle your short-term funds.

 

[because I elect to do the 800k bank amount deal here in Thailand to maintain my renewable one-year visa, I'm essentially earning slightly over 2.5% interest on that account set up on a 2-year basis (the funds are always available to me but I'd take a big interest hit if I grab the funds early) and I'm satisfied with that. I would note that I do this method for other reasons too.....I don't like paying the embassy $60.00 a year to essentially notarize something for me and, most importantly, I want the security of knowing I have those funds immediately available to me if I happen to want or need them. And, while the risk works both ways, I possibly might be really happy with this method if, as you suggested in a post above, the US dollar falls to the Thai baht in the future.]

[Guest voldemar]

I very much regret that I for one have fallen into such a crack. I won't go into detail other than to say I got badly burned by one highly recommended investment adviser who, 22 years ago, I had asked to invest safely and conservatively what was then quite a lot of cash, as it was to form the basis of a pension. To start with, it seemed fine. Then I took my eye of the ball. When I next checked, it had dropped almost 40%. The reason I was given? The fund was over exposed to Japan "but it will bounce back!" Well, we know what happened then! In hindsight, I should have threatened to sue, since my instructions were very clearly not carried out. But I'm sure we've all been there, done that. Since then, a combination of the Asian economic crisis, the dot.com bubble. SARS and the world recession have seen my largely Asian-based savings stuck at a level that is too low for me to retire. The one asset of value I do have is a small apartment near the CBD in Bangkok. If the worst comes to the worst, I could sell it to release the capital and then rent.

 

When I was in my twenties in the UK, endowment assurance policies were the 'guaranteed' way to build up savings securely. The longer you saved, the bigger the returns, and so I took out a couple of 40-year policies. But it gradually became obvious after the burst of the dot-com bubble that these long term savings vehicles work well in boom times, and much less so in times of bust

[PattayaMale]

I do not know much about investing. So when I arrived in Thailand I read many articles in the Pattaya Mail weekly written by a person that seemed to know what to do. I went this person here in Pattaya. He advised a life insurance policy from Isle of Man. I agreed to do this as he seemed to have a good track record. WRONG! What I thought he told me and then what happened were very different.

 

I signed an agreement where my invested currency was in US dollars. My instructions were that I wanted very low risk. I was clear that I did not want the principle to be put at risk. He assured me that would be the case. I likened it to a savings account but hoped to make a bit more interest. He again assured me this is the kind of account my money would be in.

 

After not receiving any statements of my account I called him and he said he would make sure the company sent them. This went on and on. Finally I had enough. But by that time, after the company had taken thousands in fees, I found out my account was down 35%.

 

The company is still in "business" in Pattaya, with home office in Bangkok. I now am looking for a lawyer that handles this type of litigation. Since this maybe a international problem I am not sure where to turn. (Any advice of firms??)

 

I would strongly advise expats to avoid investing with a company doing investments with a company in Thailand that invests outside of Thailand UNLESS you really understand those type of investments. USA will be the least of your problems!!

[Bob]

Do not forget that for Americans its own government which constantly policing foreign banks, brokerages and now offshore insurance companies and vaults make it very difficult to keep their assets safe from grabbing hands ofvarious socialists or whoever happen to be at government trough at the moment...

 

You're not an American so I don't understand why you should care one little bit what my government allegedly does to me (it doesn't affect you and, in a sense, it's none of your business). The the droning repetitiveness of calling everybody in Washington DC and/or in the current administration a socialist or a marxist is also getting just a bit boring. By the way, just where are you from?

 

And your repetitive "sky-is-falling" routine about how we Americans can't do this or can't do that is simple fantasy in my opinion. Has even one American poster here been restricted to any significant degree whatsoever? I can only answer that for myself (a resounding "no") and I'll be surprised if any other American poster will indicate anything different from that.

[Guest voldemar]

You're not an American

I am not native borne American but I am US citizen and in this respect US government policies effect me in exactly the same way. Regarding my views, they are shared by substantial number of Americans (including native borne) as e.g. manifested by last elections. You may not like my views but it does not preclude me to express them here as long as I stick to rules of this message board and I advice you to do the same.

[Guest fountainhall]

He advised a life insurance policy from Isle of Man . . . My instructions were that I wanted very low risk. I was clear that I did not want the principle to be put at risk. He assured me that would be the case . . . I found out my account was down 35%.

I think this is exactly what happened with me - a UK offshore insurance-linked investment, when I had never requested - and did not want - any insurance whatever. Investment advisers love these because they get continuing commissions from the insurance companies for the life of the policy. They are supposed to generate some offshore capital/income once the policy expires when retirement is at hand - but that comes at quite a cost. I blame my investment adviser because he definitely went against my specific expressed wishes. On the other hand, I also blame myself because I should have exercised a bit more due diligence before entrusting my cash to any company.

 

I thought about legal action too late. If your situation occurred quite recently, I would suggest you talk directly with the investment adviser. Tell him you were conned and you will make this perfectly clear in the media - even to the extent of taking out advertising with the exact details of your request, the investment advice you were given, and the result. I know someone who did that in Hong Kong with my investment adviser - and got his losses returned. Unfortunately, I left that action far too late. But there is nothing investment advisers like less than their names appearing negatively in the media. I wish you luck.

[Guest fountainhall]

I am with Buffet on this one: Japan will probably recover much faster than many think

How then would you advise investing in Japan? Through a mutual fund? I do know that direct investment in the Japanese stock market is quite expensive, as there are high annual charges.

 

You mention Buffet. I remember a documentary on CNBC Asia about 6 months ago re his last visit to China. 2 or 3 years ago, he took a 10% stake in the BYD car and battery company. He paid something like US$1 per share. About 9 months ago, these had soared to around US$8, but are now on the way down. Today I think they ended up under $4. That's still a huge profit for Berkshire Hathaway. Even though there have been a lot of articles in the media about BYD's questionable business practices, I believe Buffet has not given up his shares. He's also now looking seriously at Korea. Should a small investor go with Buffet's instincts?

[Guest voldemar]

How then would you advise investing in Japan? Through a mutual fund? I do know that direct investment in the Japanese stock market is quite expensive, as there are high annual charges.

 

You mention Buffet. I remember a documentary on CNBC Asia about 6 months ago re his last visit to China. 2 or 3 years ago, he took a 10% stake in the BYD car and battery company. He paid something like US$1 per share. About 9 months ago, these had soared to around US$8, but are now on the way down. Today I think they ended up under $4. That's still a huge profit for Berkshire Hathaway. Even though there have been a lot of articles in the media about BYD's questionable business practices, I believe Buffet has not given up his shares. He's also now looking seriously at Korea. Should a small investor go with Buffet's instincts?

Regarding Japanese situation see e.g.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-22/buffett-buying-opportunity-meets-next-big-one-commentary-by-william-pesek.html

Please, be careful in taking investment advise from others (me included) and Pattayamale caution is a correct one. I hope we are all adults here and nobody is going to jump to any conclusion without carefully studying any suggestion and its appropriateness to one's own circumstances. Please, also notice that in connection with Japanese situation, I actually recommended to consider investment in Australian miners

involved in copper and iron ore.

If you are interested in concrete ways of investing in Japan, please, PM me.

[Guest voldemar]

 

 

And your repetitive "sky-is-falling" routine about how we Americans can't do this or can't do that is simple fantasy in my opinion.

Please, check out www.aaro.org. This is the website of Association of Americans residing overseas. The quote below udentify to major concerns of organization. You may not be concerned but Americans living overseas apparently are.

Taxation: If the President