Middle Class Gay Venues

[Guest kjun12]

Another post talks about Middle Class Gay venues/bars. If these do even exist sure someone on this site knows something about them. At least where they are and what the names of some are. So, guys, if you do know anything let's cough it up.

[bkkguy]

what does "Middle Class Gay venues/bars" really mean in the west, in Asia and in Thailand? What venues would you class as "middle class gay" in New York? London? Sydney? Singapore? Hong Kong? Bangkok?

 

in most cities I know the "A-list" gays are a fairly closed circle usually found at private dinners and functions and sometimes using high-class exclusive escorts and occasionally "slumming it" at some upmarket (read expensive rather than sophisticted) discos and bars and even saunas but as likely to be seen at upmarket fashionable venues that do not identify as "gay"

 

Thailand is I think the same only more so!

 

I know one wealthy falung gay in Bangkok who has circulated a bit in the "A-List" gay private scene here and has heard of (but never visited/used) the high-class escorts and host bars. His is in his 60's and was a bit bored with the middle-aged and older Thais he encountered.

 

The only youngish "middle class" gay Thai I know personally is mid-30's and in the closet as he runs the family business and is too paranoid to go out here - he travels overseas on business regularly and has his fun there!

 

if you are just looking for "local Thai" type venues then Bangkok is littered with saunas (some more "luxurious" than others), and Ramkamhang, Sarisin, RCA and Mor Chit areas have a selection of bars and discos (again some more "upmarket" than others) but I do not realistically expect to see a large range of "middle class" "gay" venues here - it is just not part of the culture!

 

bkkguy

[Guest fountainhall]

I think kjun12 was referring to one of my posts on another thread. What I had hoped was that the magazine Attitude might eventually attract advertising from gay or gay-friendly venues which cater largely to more professional Thais. In other words, not the usual go-go bars, saunas and massage places patronised largely by farang, students and the late-teens/early 20s crowd. That assumes, though, that such establishments exist - and I am not at all sure they do!

[Guest]

Perhaps gogo bars are patronised by mainly middle class clients. After all, after subtracting other living costs back home, some people on a lowish "working class" salary might struggle to fly to Thailand AND enjoy the gogo bars every night.

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps gogo bars are patronised by mainly middle class clients

I am sure that is true of visitors. I was hoping there might be some establishments largely patronised by middle-class Thais which are not widely advertised and which some of us farang might try and visit.

[Guest josan]

There are many all over Bangkok. Most are in unmarked buildings or in condo buildings. No sign, no advertising. Some bill themselves as "health clubs" but are more like a social club. Some, once inside, looks like a regular bar with pool table, video area, snack area, etc. Some of them have membership fees. Those who have men available to take off charge a steep fee. As was pointed out, many middle class Thais don't want to be identified in the more public gay areas and clubs.

 

One of my boy friends, very upper middle class, recently moved to a different area of Bangkok and within a couple of weeks had located three gay business establishments near his condo, mostly by word of mouth from friends of his economic class. I visited two of these with him. One is on the 8th floor of a condo building. When you join you are given a key. The door to this "club" looks like all the rest in the hall. Once inside you find a huge gym, cafe, massage, etc. The other one is in a house on a street where all the houses look the same. No sign. You just have to know which house you are going to. They even have a peep hole to view you when you ring the bell.

 

About farangs visiting. Yes and no. Over the years I have gone to a lot of these places with BF and have seen other farangs in some of the establishments however these are "Thai farangs". They know how to behave in a Thai way, show respect to the local culture, etc. Most have been brought there on the approval of a Thai friend.

 

Daily reading of the several gay thailand forums show some Farangs do not accept Thai culture, do now try to understand it and do not respect it. I asked bf about this and he said that a reserve farang would probably be accepted my most of these private business ventures however demanding farangs would probably not feel accepted.

 

One other point. Thais in this class are very health and body aware. They spend much money on skin products. They often complain about Farangs:

a. Because of diet some farangs have a smell that is offensive to Thais. MILK and milk products!

b. Thais take at least two baths a day. Some farangs apparently do not.

c. Farangs do not take proper care of their skin.

 

A couple of years ago I went to one of these clubs myself. Stayed awhile to enjoy the music and interaction with the guys there. Later I indicated which boy I was interested in and arrangements were made for him. ]The guys never leave with you but appear at your hotel or house about an hour later. If you want the same boy the next night you only call.] While there a farang arrived. Very demanding and rather loud! Dress would indicate he thought he was still in his native country. While everyone in the business was polite to him whenever he told the waiter which boy he wanted to visit with he was told that that boy was already 'engaged' for the night. After going through this several times he left without. The manager later said to me, "We are very protective of our boys!"

[Guest fountainhall]

Thanks Josan. Fascinating information. Now I have to try and persuade one of my professional gay friends to take me to one.

[colmx]

The venues described by Josan above sound like High class brothels rather than a middle class gay venue

 

Not sure if this is what the OP is looking for though... are you looking for normal gay venues or brothels?

 

I would think Bed Supper club in Bkk is what i would class as a Middle class gay venue:

http://www.bedsupperclub.com/bangkok/en/

 

Its not exclusively gay - but patronised by lot of Middle Class gay guys...

 

Of course the gay ghettos in Rachada Soi 8, Otokor and Ramsari would also be populated by middle class gay guys but they are mainly dance pubs (some with coyotes) and saunas...

[pong]

what Josan lets us here peep into, seems to me also more like Hi-So. But the problem is more, that what US/AU/EUR think as middle class, hardly exists in Thaild-and if at all, mostly in BKK. I once spoke longer with a boy in a massageshop who had kind of worked in what seems to fit in that category. He seemed much happier in that shop.

Somewhat hidden ads you can find in mainstream Thai mags. About massageplaces and the like or entertainment. The many football/soccer/sports dailies also often have loads of ads for that-but more for workers wanted!

And yes-it is a kind of closed society, hard to get yourself into without introduction. But if you can, I really wonder if that would be worth all the trouble-if you know some professional Thai and have lived here long enough-out of Pattaya- or even worked, it should come as no surprise. haughty people with their nose up in the air and sniffing at farang-who are always thought of as being dirty-even if they shower 3 times/day and do not wear the right set of labelled clothes as being ''in'' for the current weekend.

[Guest kjun12]

After reading Josan's post and assuming he has a correct reading on things, I don't think I would want to be a part of this scene. Sounds like hi-so Thai snobs. We have enough prissy & pissy queens in the US.

[Guest fountainhall]

Much of what Josan describes could be in Japan. Most farang/gaijin are aware that there are over 200 gay bars in Shinjuku alone, and that only a dozen or so actually welcome foreigners. But there are gay bars and clubs all over Tokyo, some in very up-market districts, which only Japanese know how to get to and where a foreigner would politely be told the rule is "no foreigners".

[pong]

I kind of am always intrigued by these questions and very curious as to which palces might exist. I think this discussion hinges as there is no clear definition of what Thai middle class is. Also the bars/disco's mentioned in Ratchda, OToKo (==same as Mochit or Chatuchak) por RKHaeng/Lamsalee are mainly like that: meet places for mating boys, with thunderous musicwhere you go in a circle of friends to consume that stocked bottle of Johhny or else. In BKK the best known other (for anyone-mostly str8) sois catering to the more affluent type of people in their younger stages are TongLor and Ekamai (Sukhumvit 55 and 63, I think).

People posting here I think are also more likely to wish for other places.

At 2nd thoughts I tend to question what Josan writes- how can a farang enter a bar that Thai say is even unmarked outside? Khun FH rightfully hints to Yipun. I also remember similar descriptions from the old TMOT=The Men of Thailand books.

Now look at economics for such a place: there should be a steady supply of well-trained and educated boys to cater for a small group of people. As you cannot disappoint such clients with the Thai ''no have''. Noway this would pay off with such a small client-base.

About all of Thailand gay bisnis is copied after the str8. Entertainment mostly means hiring someone for some songs or drinks and doing the ob-aab-nouat= wash, shower, massage cycle. In 1 of those fancy castles with 100s of ladies or you drive in your expensive car with tinted windows into a curtianed off short-time HTL. Who would even note if there was a katoey, lady or 2 or boy sitting also in?

So all in all I simply think it hardly exists.

People from the west asking about it, I think expect a little more like from a partner: a good discussion, an open eye for foreign things, shared interest. If you fancy that, Thailand is simply the wrong place. The all-compassing higher/lower status simply makes this about impossible.